Iranian of the Day

Two more

Souri

Perhaps it was useless to you. Shows your arrogance. Who are you to think people should go chat elsewhere? Why don't YOU move and chat elsewhere? I think what YOU actually bring up is just a load of plain repetitious self-serving comments. Everyone knows why she was executed on 1 May. Yet you claim "nobody" could "reply to your question". Cut it.

Irandokht

Point well taken. However, if I thought most of these people mattered, I would adopt that attitude. Or, if thought "soft propaganda" would cut it for them, I would too. I have read a lot of their comments throughout various debates (including yours actually), and I really don't think that's the case. I came here to make another point.

While Everyone Here Argues

more and more people in Iran are being subjected to false imprisonment, torture, and execution.

Whether they're male or female, whether they're adults or minors, whether the charges are legitimate or not, or whether or not they've even actually been charged, chances are that they've not been afforded the rights of due process.

What happened with Delara was absolutely horrible. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. It has to do with the way the IRI completely disregards international law, acceptable practices of civil law, criminal justice and basic human rights, to name just a few things.

But I think that some of you are more worried about how you're perceived than you are about these people.

What a shame.

Mahrban

I dont recall they ever post such orders. Also I have never seen them release any court data to public.

The official order to stay the execution for 2 months was given to prison officials and Delara's attorney. However later once things calmed down for couple of days, apparently victims family requested execution and the same Judge who also ordered one person to be stoned granted it and they executed Delara without telling ANYONE. All between them , judge and prison, as if the accused has no rights whatsoever, not even to a last wish to see parents.

As Rosie said this is an example of how the whole case was treated for past 5 years. The boy who will be released had inside connection which is another factor.

So much there that when I get a chance I write an article with a title that I now announce here for the FIRST TIME:

Dalara was innocent!

and this is from someone who never signed the Delara petition which was created by someone who had stated in petition Delara was innocent! which was not up to us to pre-determine.

For now look for another SCE post: 2 more children will be executed this Wednesday Iran time, I think that is a little more than 24 hours from now.

//iranian.com/main/blog/sce-campaign/two-more-juveniles-be-executed-wednesday

All in name of Islam.

You guys crack me up!

A bunch of anonymous people with silly handles and psydonym identities, challenging each other on who is the braver one in speaking out about the hapless people of Iran! Parham who? David who? Captain what? Irandokht? Don't make me laugh! You guys don't even have enough courage to show your names here where all you are doing all day is posturing and gossiping and flirting with each other! The few perfuctory comments that you leave here and there, supposedly in defense of human rights in Iran, are nothing but a cruel reminder of how jokers and anonymous people like us are now claiming to represent a nation of mistreated people. I sure thank God nobody in Iran is waiting for Parham or Irandokht to save them!

Hypocrites, that's what you are, and you have the gall to claim you are human rights defenders?

I just came back (haven't read those last comments)

The only thing I want to say is, we had started an interesting discussion (Andy, Babak and myself) but it got lost, because of many interruption by (Rosie-Parham) posts which get nowhere, but making only useless noises.

In this case (which happened also in some other blogs with Rosie) I'd suggest to go somewhere else, or (even to this new Chat section which Foaad has brought us ;-) Just for the sake of respect for others. What's the point of trying to reason someone, (desperately) to calm down and not insulting others, blah blah bah?

They are mature people, if one warning didn't work, it will never work, no matter how many times you post same warning.

thanks!

I noticed it was from Amnesty. Didn't see a petition though. I am not an activist, I care for human rights and I do read about  the cases, when there is any way to help, I do so. I have noticed that when you contribute to AI, it doesn't go specifically to one case, so I asked if you knew another way to help out. 

Yesterday, I tried to ask people to give you a chance to explain yourself and your position on this blog instead of attacking you, despite your condescending and very offensive attitude.

Your nondiscriminatory insulting style is not helping you attract people to the causes that should mean more to us all. I just hope that people don't get completely turned off. 

IRANdokht

Awww...

So sorry not to have provided you with an answer on what Shahroudi meant. But I'm glad Captain and Kourosh already had before I could. Next time I'll try to draw quicker...

So... "Showing off my links"?
You care for human rights, correct? Why don't you give yourself the trouble of finding them?

Hint: That second link, from Amnesty UK? Well, it's from Amnesty!

Parham

When I asked for clarification, you were not very helpful, you provided no answer even when you did reply. Then you claim that I am making a mockery of human rights abuses. Sorry if I dont' start crying when you throw in a link.

I needed to know what he meant and where Shahroodi stands when it comes to stoning. Not that it matters anyway because Shahroodi says one thing and they do another.

I don't support stoning for men! Who would? Do you really have such a low regards for women? or just feminists?

The fact that people did not know about this case, allows you to be in charge of making the public aware of the situation, so use it to educate people and draw them in to support your causes.

By pouting and getting all offensive and insulting you're definitely not helping the victims.

IRANdokht

Added: I knew about Farzad Kamangar and I thought maybe you are providing a link on how to help out. Who to contact etc...   Do you have any petitions or contact addresses for these cases? or you're just showing off your links?

You didn't like that one?

Let's see who here will move a finger for this one:

//www.labourstart.org/cgi-bin/solidarityforev...

Anyone? This one is ONLY a man. Not an adulterer, he has not even committed a crime. How about trying to save him? Hmm?

Here, even more info:
//www.amnesty.org.uk/actions_details.asp?Acti...

and of course...

... this one CAN be a subject of jokes and no one's in a mourning mood anymore of course. No more poetry, but Shahre Ghesse.

Okay, let me guess now...

... we won't see the feminists on this one because

1- the subject is a man
2- his "crime" is extra-marital sex

even though it's s case of human rights abuse.

And you know what? The authorities will be able to turn around and say "this is interference in our laws", and from a legal point of view, they'll be right. Iran hasn't signed any international pact not to stone male adulterers!

Thanks KouroshS

من فکر کردم منظور اینه که همینطور الکی‌ دارن حکم سنگسار میدن و شاهرودی ناراحته، ولی‌ اگر دنبالشو باهاش ارتباط بدیم و بخونیم همین منظور رو میرسونه...
کاپیتان جان فکر می‌کنم کورش درست میگه دیگه اینطوری هم شور نیست که باج رو علنا بخوان... شهر قصه یادتونه؟ خرسه می‌خواست از فیل باج بگیره... این کار‌ها رو هنوز هم به اون آشکاری نمیکنن.   لااقل امیدوارم نکنند!!

IRANdokht

?

من هم نفهمیدم اما بنظر میاد که جناب ایت الله میخوان کی ریش سبیل مبارکشون چرب بشه. باج میخان حتما.

-YT

Irandokht

I think it means that there is a certain level of authority,where if a convict confesses to a crime and then retracts, the top akhoond can order the stoning part removed, and just resort to executing the flogging order.
This is what i got from the Mumbo jumbo IRI legal code in the refrence link that Parham provided.
I hope i am right!!

Moderator re: my two deleted post

Moderator (Jahanshah): the deleted post I wrote, as I carefully explained below, was perfectly civil and a replly to Jaleho's insulting someone's mental capability by civilly questioning hers. (details in my last post below). As requested please delete Jaleho's post which first told the Cap'n he did not have the mental capability to discuss tings with her. (and the Cap's response to her too-sorry Cap'n--but since mine was deleted..).

Moderator/Publisher/Owner/Jahanshah/ why should a harmless little post to Parham saying let's move the conversation over to the other  thread be deleted?

what does that mean?

آیت‌الله محمود هاشمی شاهرودی معتقد است؛ «حکم سنگسار کردن با اندک چیزی رها می‌شود».

IRANdokht

Okay all you human rights mourners,

let's see what you're made of!

Try to do something for THIS one here:
//aftabnews.ir/vdcb8gbw.rhbwspiuur.html

The subject is still alive as we speak/write, but is about to get stoned for extra-marital sex.

Countdown...

Okay so let's leave it here, Parham /moderator

Parham I too felt it was prepostrous in some sense to ask you to move our conversation elsewhere after Souri having told me to that morning and me saying no. But my finally suggesting it had nothing to do with Souri. at that point I would've thought it was best to move the conversation anyway because it was going around in circles already. That was not the case when Souri first told me to do it. She had no basis for that. Anyway i understandwhy you didn't want to do it. Simple fact is Parham, between this thread and two others you'd been posting to me on, I wanted to get it all together on mone place and yes, privately too. That is why I suggested an old thread.Ttoo many issues getting all tangled up between us all over the place.

Moderator: Why would a harmless little post asking someone to move the conversation elsewhere after a very long exchange, when that person has been kind of "centerpiece" of the thread for a while with many other people be deleted/ This makes absolutely no sense. Was it a mistake???

Deleted because it was flagged

apparently trying to egg people on and fuel a fire by taking sides and throwing insults gets your comments flagged and deleted.

IRANdokht

Rosie

I saw your post last night as well. However, I felt that what you asked of me after what Souri suggested, was preposterous. That's why I didn't follow through.

I hope if you think about it a bit better, you'll see why I say that. If you don't, let's leave it there, because this the Delara thread, and this is where I'll discuss Delara anyway.

And please do not ask me that another time because you will piss me off! :-)
Thank you.

Cap'n, Jaleho / Parham.....missing posts????

ust before I wrote a comment to Capn and Jaleho which appears to have been deleted??? Maybe it didn't go through??/

It was in response to Jaleho's abusive comment to Capn (an economics professor) about his mental capability. I once again explained that a person who claims and defends IRI is a democracy is not qualified to comment on this case. Four times now I've challenged this woman about that statement, four times ignored, finally she replied here to tell me I'm not worthy of replying to.

it is RELEVANT to this discussion. I explained it. IRI has democratic elements, it is NOT a democracy by wildest stretch of imagination. If I claim US is communist you should disqualify me from a discussion about the Federal Reserve Bank. If Jaleho claims IRI is a democracy, she ishould be disqualified from discussing a legal case in IRI.  I am right. 

Disqualified from discussion, Jaleho, I said here. Yes, I brought up a couple of times the "mental capability" part to question Jaleho's  but in completely civil language. I hope it was not deleted and is just some kind of glitch. could be. My computer's been whacky these couple of days but I thought iI saw that comment posted.

iIf it was deleted then so should Jaleho's abusive post to Cap'n about mental capability.should've bee too. If mine wasn't deleted, good.

__________________________--

Parham:

I wrote comment to you last night saying plase move our discussion to my other thread like I'd asked yo to before. That is all I said. I don't see it. I am all but positive I checked and saw it poste dlast night..

__________
Maybe I am wrong.

Calling you arrogant?

Calling you arrogant? please. I, just like you, am very much in favor of the Butt-kicking approach and reserve nice and soft attitudes and terminology for some other time. Right now the list of words that i have in mind for you go far beyond the nice and beautiful word of "arrogant", You can trust me on that.
You thinkk people are Hypocrits, because you don't know what the term means. You are simply being presumptous. Just because in your mind you believe in a totally vain notion that people supposedly are not making enough noise for the likes of Osanloo and other activists, so it definitely is the case that they have taken this case way too far, and you used your self-created "sharaye karbala" and immam hussayin...analogy and other forms of theatrics to justify your claims.
You and others on this link have closed your eyes and refuse to see all the evidence that there is out there and demonstrate extreme bias toward her.

.............

I choose to delet/edit my commnet on the grounds that I was out of line. No matter how Ms. Jaleho decides to address me and question my mental ability I should do as I preach and that is engagement  in a logical and civilized manner.

I regrest to see that Ms. Jaleho instead of answering my inquiry in a civilized manner has chosen to disrespect me. But hey I can only be responsible for my own stupidity, and not anyone elses.

Ms. IRANdokht are we ashti yet? ;-)

-YT

Rosie jun

Firstly, I thank you for wonderful and heartfelt email I received from you. In due time I shall answer it and I do have, as your did, tons of things to talk to you about. My feelings and thoughts about what you said in your email.

Yes i did miss that point, which to me is such a cold hearted and barbaric act the dungeon masters took. Come on , what is the humanity on that? War prisoners get more rights than this poor soul.

Her guilt or innocence is totally irrelevant here, point  is the ruthlessness of those dungeon masters, that fact they would not notify the attorneys, the family. I can, knowing how these monsters operate that she did not even get her last rights and a human being.

As an ordinary human being [no back ground in law], to me  her first testimony and confession is totally illegal and unacceptable in courts. I tried in one of my previous comments paint a picture of her investigation and circumstance that her first confession was obtained.

To me people who argue the justification for her execution are missing this point altogether. This why I insist that her whole trial, IF it was based on her first confession is totally absurd and illegal. This case has nothing to with anything else, except that Iran as a nation is hostage to these criminals.

-YT

Last ones?

KouroshS

Sometimes a good kick in the butt is better than a few dozen soft yadda yaddas, that probably actually won't even work. That doesn't only apply to Iranians, btw. More, I don't really think well of hypocrites. I don't see why I should caress them before rubbing their noses in their pooh-pooh. Call me arrogant.

Captain

Once again, please go back and read who has said what before making such bold statements about people. That should already say enough about your sense of justice. Yes, Delara was under 18 when she committed the crime (of being accessory to a premeditated murder), but there IS a punishment that applies to that too. Of course it's not capital punishment, but there IS a punishment. It's not like people are saying "oh great, they killed her" -- although there are those too. I just haven't seen many on this thread. Have you?

They raped her in prison . That's why ..

I really think those people in prison had done things to her that they were so afraid of her go out of there and talk about it. Otherwise what could be the reason that they even didn't listen to Shahrudi.

David ET

I can not find the document on the stay of execution issued by Ayatollah Shahroodi.  There are references to it in different articles and blogs but not the document itself or any form of its direct communication (maybe it was verbal?!!) or the original news item.  Could you direct me to it on the web?  Thanks  

Captain, sorry to be so blunt

you said:"The point that every one who is supporting her execution are missing is not the matter of guilt or innocence. The point everyone in this category, in particular Parham, Jeleho, Chai ..."

I don't believe you have the required mental capability to understand yet another repeated explanation. So, forget referring to me for another answer. When I leave a comment, I assume a normal IQ from a person interested in hearing a point of view of someone beside his own, which wouldn't require repeating it more than three times, in two different languages, and with a third bullet-point explanation of the same points made in CAPITAL LETTERS for extra clarity! Spare me your macho insults too, I won't bother to read more in here.

I bothered with the comment since I noticed this from the editors:

Parham had written a comment, very correctly explaining how majority of people here who were giving opinon, did not even know details of the case. For example the fact that after the murder, it was Delara's father who turned her to the police; that she then confessed to the deatils of the murder,;that then she denied it later but many stages of the primary courts, the appeals court, and the final supreme court have without "reasonable doubt" ( according to them) have confirmed her as the killer; that the punishement was execution without more delay; that the extra time was given because "ghesas nafs" gives the final decision in the hand of victim's family, who is the SOLE decision maker to give or not to give a pardon or more time. The ignorant people here who have heard that in American cases you better not apologise or that would be a "confirmation of your guilt," didn't even know that the guilt was completely confirmed already, except there's that extra "humanitarian allowance" given to the person to be executed, to ask for forgiveness, and her life be spared by the victim's family.  These people made fun, instead of a simple "thanks, I didn't know the details of the case. All I heard was the one sided SCE propaganda which could have had the opposite effect of robbing Ms. Darabi from her only chance to avoid  execution," by anatagonazing the victims and slandering them, which it did! The family who had originally offered to accept a public apology, later explained in an open letter that they have been harrased by the propaganda and Delara's lawyer, and they will not accept any further smear on their family and their killed mother, and they requested their legal right which was the execution.  I don't know the legal rights of those to be executed, if they have the right to see their family before execution, but I don't think the mournful people here know it either! I have read about many prisoners in the US going through lethal injection, never heard they were granted a family visit prior to execution. The entire capital punishment is a savage act, so I won't be surprised if that right is not given.

These people have too much of an ego, and feel humiliated accepting their former ignorance of the case. So, they go attack people as IRI supporters  who support execution of minors instead, to cover up their ignorance of the case!

I don' understand how Parham's comment and mine agreeing with that particular point that he made is deleted, but garbage like the current post of Captain is here?! I thought my comment didn't appear beccause they closed this blog after comment No. 316?!

Chai: If you go back and

Chai:

If you go back and re-read your own post you will (hopefully) recognize that it is full of contradictions and uncertain claim...especially in the following two lines:

1- It was not for her, the murder would not have happened...
2-
You are not sure about the extent of her involvement BUT... She IS! equally guilty? How can you be sure of that, when you do not know what exactly her role was in the whole thing? Can you determine whether she was an "accessory" or merely a "witness" in this case?
The victim's family, bless her soul, until the last minute was not quite sure even how they felt about her, based on the letter to the ETEMAAD paper, and wherher or not it was the boy or the girl. but Then they turn around and make it sound like they are, all of a sudden sure that she did it for sure. And they blamed it on her Behavior in jail, and her rudeness and the international pressure and coverage of the case!! What kind of reasoning is that? How can you brush all evidence aside and make such claims? Seemed as if they had more trust in this regime and its investigation, rather than the actual truth based on ALL EVIDENCE.

How much more confused and uncertain can one be? WOuld it not be better to have given her the benefit of the doubt at least, and be willing to hear more credible evidence?

no Doubt that this is such an emotional case and perhaps leaves not much room for purely rational thinking But You ask a very sensitive and loaded question down at the bottom. Of course that one would have been outraged and would definitely wanted to see the convicted person dead, but ONLY if it was proven beyond reasonable doubt that he or she was guilty.
I believe that the victim's family at least owed her that much.

Parham:

Please don't be telling me or anyone else, whether we are ready or need to be debating ok? Not a good idea. One thing is for sure, and that unlike you, we don't make an attempt to shove our points down someone's thorat or take on a accusatory tone, and call the whole ayohannas vulnurable, manipulable, etc. We try to express our opinions.
If hagighat talkhe, Then guess what, you are the one here who is in need of making some much-needed and desparately called for attitude adjustment.

Over and out.

Ayhab, one point in particular you didn't stress enough:

The sneaky and vicious way she was executed was also ILLEGALl. Her parents weren't notified. She died alone. 48 hours notification is the law in IRI.

Her guilt or innocence in my view was always irrelevant becauswe whatever happened that murky night, all she could be considered is complicitous. No matter who held the knife. Because it was unpremeditated, chaotic, she was young and obviously psychologically disturbed,and if anyone could've stopped anyone, it would've been him, not her.

So she was complicitous, and. in my view Delara was no saint. BUT THE EVIL WAY SHE WAS EXECUTED RENDERS HER A MARTYR IN MANY WAYS BECAUSEE SHE IS A VICTIM OF PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL.

Anyone who tries to apologize for this one by bringing up any argument of fairness in IRI legal system..!!!! Guilt or innocence??? HER FATHER TURNED HER IN IN GOOD FAITH TO THE PENAL SYSTEM AND THEY DID NOT EVEN LET HIM BE THERE WHEN SHE DIED. HE IS NOW HOSPITALIZED SINCE HER HANGING..

Anyone who tries to argue away this one implicitly defends the INHErENT rughtless lawlessness of IRI and should..go live therre..they'd last five minutes before winding up in Evin Prison. Trust me, they would. 100 May Day celebratns in Tehran, workers with other human rights groups marching in solidarity, beaten, jailed, THE SAME Day delara's last minute execution was staged to terrorize them more.

tHIS IS Not ABOUT ONE PERSON. tHIS IS ABOUT LAWLESSNESS. vIOLATING THE CHILD EXECUTION CONVENTION, VIOLATING THE 48 HOUR NOTIFICATION. bEATING THE WORKERS, ARRESTING THE MIL SIG PEOPLE AGAIN ON SAME DAY AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE. THOUGH PERSOANLLLY HER POEMS AND ARTWORK INSPIRE ME, THIS IS ABOUT ONE THING ONLY (beyond her tragic life):

Do you want a criminal government where hte whole country is a prison or not?  (And please don't tell me what about Gaza or I swear, to use Parhm's vulgar language, I'll puke).

One last thing: do people have the "right"to grieve so much about his one person???  Well..how about asking them that when they're DONE grieving and can think straight instead of hurting them and making them grieve more and get more angry and...and...and..