Jahanshah Javid

True

Being angry is not a good emotion to carry around. Being sad, hurt, or hopeless should not lead to anger. No useful resolution can be made once a person is angry.

I believe that frustration can be channeled by trying to read the other side, there are no absolutes and understanding this concept can help one act and behave more sane.

Happy Thursday.

Is it the content or the gatekeeper

I found Iranian.com a few years back by accident. Read it a few times and left as occasional gems were too difficult to find in a sea of venom. After Selections of AN, I came to disseminate and get information. I noticed significant improvement in look & feel and UI and more diverse content but still a hodgepodge of posts with occasional gems. My point is that the moderation of this site has been less than stellar. I recall seeing Dubai wedding pictures on front page while kids were getting killed in streets of Iran and pictures of criminals were relegated to obscurity even if they showed up more visibly later. Timing is everything.  People can agree to disagree but it seems while Iran is burning our collective priority and attention needs refocussing on all fronts; at least for those still believing a free and happy Iran is possible but in greatest danger of its long history. There are other lacks such as anti-x and pro-y making multiple posts and so on. There is plenty of process and technology to manage all of this if the target is clear. To this site's credit I have not noticed curbing of spike in political content post June 12.

Freedom of expression needs to be balanced with what a site is trying to accomplish. Everything for everyone is not the best aproach. As publisher even your trivial posts get attention so you can use it to channel and prevent stagnation this site seems to be going through. Your statement of the obvious here for example has gotten many responses and even commitments. Regardless of where you want to take this, you can succeed by re-focussing what this site wants to be and managing the content flow accordingly.

OKtaby

I agree with you

I agree with you JJ.

Comment section has a lot of potentials to make us to grow up, if we really care how to use it properly. Anger is natural, specially in a politically dominated website like IC, however, it doesn't mean that this should be a site for expression of anger, but to transform anger in to a constructive and civilized manner.

despite that many of us have made non-factual characters behind these cyber-personalities, still it is a good reflection of real us and a good way to see what we really are...

long overdue JJ

There is no perfect solution to this particular problem.  It always has been and WILL always remain the responsibility of the user.  Some are more responsible than others.  But it is abundantly clear that many users have left the site.  And still more will if this continues.

Here is my two cents...

I think you should leave the site as is.  JJ's concerns are ok; since he is the publisher of the site.  But, look; this is life!  This is a place where you are vividly witnessing how democratic process succeeds (or, fails.)  It is fascinating!  We do have the luxury of being a part of this process, virtually, or in real life.  What we do with this gift, is our cross to carry.  Not everyone who gets a chance to make a difference will do it; and not everyone who is allowed to particiapte in a free society will do it responsibly.  And, that is the price that we pay for harboring the notion of freedom of speech. 

Here, we have a load of educated people, some of them movers and shakers of their commuities,  businesses, states, etc.  Yet, we are observing pitty attacks, name-calling; accusations; self-rightousness at a level that goes beyond one's comprehension.  Why?  Because we are immature; we dont know the difference between writing an opinion piece, a persuasive essay, or a debate.  We never learned that language. 

I personally have been attacked by someone on this site, for stating my opinion; for taking a side; for liking a style!  I have been a silent reader for many years.  I have seen and read from everyone who posts and publishes on the site.  Do i comment on everyone who posts a blog? No!  Do i care when they personally attack me? No! And why?  Because, I pick and choose what i want to read and where i want to post a comment.  I understand it has bothered some people who think they have to correct everyone on each stance; but, i frankly dont give a rat's ass to those persona's!  I am seasoned enough to know you cannot change character traits; you only can change your own attitude!  And, i know that bothers many people, but heck, life is not a popularity contest!

So, at the end; i think JJ should keep it as open as possible; and let everyone be a responsible user/consumer of news/media/stories/comments.  Lets practice and see if democracy is what we like; or, do we prefer a state-run programs on morality, politices, literature, history and so on.  If we believe that our fellow citizens are educated, intelligent, and literate; then, let them decide who they want to get involved with. 

As for comments; i am yet again, an avid believer that most intelligent systems correct themselves; over time that is.  Anyone should get a chance to blog as much as her/his heart desires.  But, once she/he puts it up there; then, she/he must be ready to note that not everyone may like the piece.  Otherwise, what is the point of publishing?!!

Dear Mr JJ

I am a new comer to I.com from the standpoint of posting comments. After reading your post, I find myself in agreement with you wholeheartedly. Interestingly, I also find myslef agreeing with Faramarz F. and others who feel like him - right or wrong. I feel the same way.

In the short time I've been posting, I have been both a target as well as the occasional marksman myself, although I have now managed to hold back, and I think I've done pretty well so far.

Again, our anger is directed at those who have managed to destroy a once respected nation and those who blindly follow their path of destruction. I personally do not consider them Iranians. They cannot be.

Yes, we must control ourselves, but it is a tough road to travel.

Dear JJ, don't let people have multiple ID

I think one major problem is that some people have multiple IDs.  With one they write a blog and with the other one, they tell themselves what a great blog. With the third ID, they become rude.  Anyway, one solution is that each person has to have only one ID. That way people will be more responsible for what they write. 

 I also think some of the anger is understandable since what we are faced with is having a criminal dictatorship in Iran.  Then some people want to defend this and others get upset.  We are still very close to the crime so people don't have perspective.  If 20 years from now people say that there was(were) character(s) defending dictatorship in Iran and other people were getting angry with them, then future generation will say, ya, that is very understandable.  However, since we are close to the event in time, some people muddy this with freedom of speech and politeness and etc. 

Even the silent majority is responsible

...and their failure is their silence.

In real life, there are mechanisms for enforcing responsibility in speech, just as other social laws. On this site, the only mechanisms available to us are three fold:

1) we should express ourselves responsibly and hold ourselves to a high standard of speech, even when criticizing and disagreeing with others 

2) we should diligently flag offensive comments and blogs, personal attacks, and hate speech whether we agree with the view point or not. 

3) we should acknowledge those that express themselves politely and respectifully, whether we are involved in the discussion or not, or agree with their viewpoint or not.

I want to simply appeal to the 'silent' majority to make their presence and stance known and realize that their participation will effectively dilute and hopefully 'drown' the hatred on this forum. 

Remember that 'silence is also a sign of acceptance' - sokoot alamat rezaast.  Now we just need to be dissatisfied enough to no longer remain silent.

Alborz

If one believes in

If one believes in non-violence, then the rest falls in place. Unfortunately most people believe in capital punishment, and death on their fellow human beings. As long as people do not let Life take care of Life, we are going to have bad behaviour. But on the bright side, most people have vented their anger on most subjects, and Iranians are ready for a cool calm change. We need forums like these to take all this anger out of the system.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Dear JJ

Our anger is from the sense and feeling of helplessness we have developed over the past 30 years.

You are right.  Anger, hatred, finger pointing (I as an i.com poster am guilty of this as anyone else if not more) never fix anything.

But at the moment I am consumed with hatred of IRI and Islam.  Not sure what I can do about it.  My personal feeling is that I will remain this way until IRI is no more!  (that maybe after I am dead!).

I find it interesting that nothing else in life has had such an effect on me.  In year 2000 I lost 50% of my net worth in the market in less than 10 days.  I went on with life as if nothing happened. 

Dear JJ,

Well said JJ jan!

Actually, I went back and read a few my old blogs and comments, and recognized a few ones where I could feel my anger, but it is also obvious that I had tried to hide it! I think the fact that I am using my real name and picture helps me to work hard to control my anger. After all, whatever we write here would remain for eternity!

But those users-with-a-fake-ID don't feel any obligation to stay true to themselves. It becomes almost like a play/game where they become this fictional character playing a role  they're afraid to play in real life. I am sure many of these "mean" commenters are really nice people in person, but are they really nice?

No exceptions

Red Wine Jan, there are rude angry people on ALL sides. This is not a by-product of the past 30 years alone. It goes back 2,500 years if you will! Common sense, calm conversation, respectful debate are not among our strengths.

I plead guilty

We all at one point or another are guilty. I may be totally wrong when I say this but I think part of the problem may be caused by so called [temporary] users who might not want to curse at you with their usual registered names, as a result they register one , use all profanity, then they are gone.

Ms. Nazy Kaviani has an excellent point. Besides IC, I sometimes blog at current.com as well. I am not certain how they do it, but hateful comments and hateful blogs that are directed to certain group of people[any religious or minority groups] are deleted or even not published. Users who submit such blogs or comment, after one warning are blocked altogether.

Just a suggestion for MIS staff if workable. This community is more valuable to us to let it be perceived as a hateful community.

Regards

-YT 

Naming and shaming.

Good Idea, Nazy!

I have been thinking lately if there is a way for the site to automatically 'name and shame' characters that are hateful and abusive to other users. 

In my humble opinion it would be better if instead of completely deleting a comment the moderator would delete the comment but keep the identity of the offender. As far as I understand comments are deleted if they contain:

1. personal attacks

2. swear words

3. are off topic

4. divulge personal information about other users

I think so instead of completely erasing any trace of the offense, it would useful to replace the deleted comment by one of the terms which convey why the comment was deleted. This keeps a track of the number of 'offenses' each character has committed. I don't know if technically it would be possible to even keep a ranking of this, just like the 'most commented' or 'most viewed' sections. Maybe that way, once those individuals see it black on white it works as the mirror that JJ is talking about.

And that is my two cents. 

Thank you, Nazy Kaviani,

Thank you, Nazy Kaviani, for your great post. It is super kind of you!!!!

thanks,

yolanda 

...

مقصر شیادانی هستند که از جانب رژیم دیکتاتوری اسلامی در ایران تغذیه میشوند.آنها بسیار دریده هستند و دیگران را تحریک کرده و با الفاظ زشت و تهمت میخواهند این سایت را در کنترل خود در آورند.

این افراد قبلان در اینجا نبودند ! قبلان کجا بودند ؟

باید جلوی این افراد را گرفت،شناسایی کرد و طردشان کرد ! نباید گذاشت که این سایت خوب را اینها خراب کنند،لعنت خدا بر آنها که باعث مزاحمت بقیه میشوند .

Nicly Put!

:-)

Jahanshah:

You bring up a very important issue, something that has disappointed me greatly over the past few months. Though it may look like many, there are, relative to the number of site visitors, only a small number of people who leave comments on Iranian.com. On popular posts, for every person whose name and avatar we see on a thread, there are a hundred others who are silent readers. People who are obsessed with commenting think they are the only ones on this site and that nobody else sees them. People do. People know.

The haters on this site are few but they fill up all the threads and turn everything into a personal battle. If the site is to have any interesting dialogue, this has got to stop. Obviously ignoring these na raahat users has not worked. If anything it has made them bolder and more audacious about spewing hate on others. There are users on the site now who routinely talk down at others with a presumed tone of authority. New users and especially non-Iranian users are now routinely bullied and interrogated about their ancestry and business on the site with a most unfriendly tone, uncharacteristic of the way Iranians address visitors, “ghareeb’s”.

I know you can’t read every thread and deal with derailed discussions and useless bickering of a few. To do our part, I think in addition to flagging comments containing profanities, Iranian.com users should also flag “hate comments” as soon as they show up. This can help prevent the subsequent hate comments which typically mount on the first one.

Up until a few months ago, I used to think that the best part of Iranian.com happens in its comments section where Iranians come forward and express themselves freely, providing the colorful rainbow of thought and ideas that our community possesses. The repercussion of letting hate run rampant throughout the site is that if good people get tired of the hate and give up and leave, dialogue on the site deteriorates even further and it will eventually die, leaving us with cat fights, pissing contests, and nothing but what resembles drunken brawls in the comments section. As is, there is hardly any thread of genuine originality and thought which isn’t poisoned by the hateful comments of a few.

I think as a community we have to help identify, warn, and isolate the haters.

My two cents.

Gol gofti, JJ jan!

As dele ma gofti.

A great advise indeed

As for me dealing with those that either fall in the catagories that you have mentioned or simply lack any sense of logic or constant use of smear campaign... I boycut/ignore their contribution.  I see their names, I move on to the next writing.

Mehrdad

great advice

I will try to put it into practice.

thanks,

yolanda 

Excellent advise JJ

I really want to encourage ppl to think about what they want to say before they write too. Something once said can never be taken back even with an apology. Far better to be remembered for your positive attributes than your negative ones. 

I have had a few conversations with ppl off site about how unpleasant IC has become and that is a great shame for such a unique forum. 

Javane