Hillary Clinton: Libya may become democracy or face civil war
bbc
02-Mar-2011 (18 comments)


Libya could become a peaceful democracy or face years of civil war, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has told Congressional lawmakers.

Mrs Clinton appeared on Capitol Hill to urge Congress not to cut funds needed to deal with crises abroad.

Meanwhile, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said the US was weighing "a lot of options and contingencies".

The comments came a day after the US began repositioning warships and military aircraft in the Libya region.

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Darius Kadivar

Deadly fighting as Gadhafi tries to retake rebel-held town (cnn)

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Darius Kadivar

VIDEO: Gaddafi Winning the Propaganda Media War (bbc)

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MRX1

For what it's worth

by MRX1 on

You got to admire Ghadadfi's fight to the end attitude!!!.

The problem of North Africa and Mideast will not vanish over night with arrival of democracy( what ever that means). 

The birth rate in North African region is the highest in the world.Mideast is pretty is high as well.  Every person has an average of 6 to 8 childeren. there is no system in the world that can provide jobs, housing, education and great standard of living for people at this growth rate. I am afraid  It will only be cyce of disastser one after another......

As for Iran ( short of a miracle) I think we will be heading towards the disintegeration.  Unless we get lucky and some one with caliber of the great Reza shah shows up in the scene and  armed forces are left intact to protect things. Post IRR no government will be able to tolerate much less provide any progress if there are  strikes  week after week  by some organizations. If every region aims for authonomey and federal republic mumbo jumbo things will spire out of control even faster.

As for U.S government, I gave up on them long time a go, look who is in the white house, secretery of defance, secretery of state, a large collection of amatures with no real expeirence in any international affair.

 


Darius Kadivar

I'm afraid democracy won't spread in the same pattern across ME

by Darius Kadivar on

I hope I am wrong But ... 

I'm afraid that in the same way the Western Liberals are delivering Libya back to Gaddafi that the same failed understandings of what is truly taking place in the region will end with an unholy alliance between the same liberals and believe it or not the neo cons in giving Iran away to the highest bidder:

http://iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/mko-lobby-former-us-senators-seek-lift-mko-terrorist-list

Forget the Greens or our Legitimate Crown Prince ... Iran's destiny is hardly in it's own hands. Only political cynicism combined with Clueless American Policy makers ( be them neo cons or Liberals they are the same SH%T ) will see Iran ultimately become nothing more than a divided entity like Ex Yougoslavia:

http://iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/separatist-temptations-dont-let-it-fool-you-treason-exists

I'm afraid that is the price we Iranians will ultimately pay for having betrayed King and Country in the name of some vague knowledge of what we thought was democracy ...

I am very pessimistic as to the spread of democracy in the region after seeing how the US and Western Powers are handling the situation in Libya. The World needs visionaries like Churchill or a De Gaulle as leaders at the helm of world affairs today. Instead it has School boys and School girls playing smart ass when in fact they know Jack about what they are sitting on: A Time Bomb which will explode in their own faces !


Darius Kadivar

Eyewitness: Tripoli's silent agony (bbc)

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Darius Kadivar

Libyan military bombs area controlled by opposition (cnn)

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http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/02/libya.conflict/index.html?hpt=T1#

 

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Libyan military aircraft flew over a section of eastern Libya Wednesday, dropping two bombs on an area largely controlled by the opposition.

A CNN crew saw the bombings. There were no immediate reports of casualties.


Darius Kadivar

The West is digging it's own grave ...

by Darius Kadivar on

The West is digging it's own grave slowly but surely and Who will be there to laugh it off ? Gaddafi and Khamenei / Ahmadinejad and all other crazy nuts who were working hard through their lobbies in the West and America to see the emergence of a new world order.

Believe me the Russians and Chinese are rubbing their hands in delight now !


Darius Kadivar

Gaddafi defends the "Republic" (bbc)

by Darius Kadivar on


Rea

Pretty good understanding of the conflict

by Rea on

I'd just add that it was Mitterrand' landing in Sarajevo 1992 that prolonged the plight of its people for another 3 years.


Darius Kadivar

FYI/ "Libyans in battle over oil town" (John Simpson reports)

by Darius Kadivar on


Darius Kadivar

Also genocide in Ex Yougoslavia was due to France's hesitation

by Darius Kadivar on

You may be able to confirm this better than I could but if I recall well France decided to side with the Serbs when the Croats were actually being attacked. This led to alot of hesitation at the UN council on how to deal with the problem. Mainly for historical reasons because France's President of the Time François Mitterand thought that the Croats were the "bad guys" because of their Pro Nazi Past during WWII. Also fears of Balkanization (which ultimately led to Yougoslavia falling apart once again) and historic fears of another age ( notably WWI and the redrawings of the frontiers) led to a total misunderstanding of the challenges at hand: Keep Yougoslavia United. 

He forgot that at the time of the Turmoil in Yougoslavia half a century had passed since WWII and we were dealing with an entirely different situation.

 

What had led to fairly peaceful Velvet Revolutions in most of the Eastern Bloc countries instead led to a bloody civil war in Yougoslavia (which untimately destroyed what Tito painstakingly tried to achieve after WWII) due to the mixed signals sent by the Western Powers to the leadership and people of that region.

Same thing could be said about France's controversial attitude in Rwanda under the same Presidency of Socialist President Mitterand. I suppose Too many Arms Deals behind the curtain were at stake ...

my humble and non expert opinion,

DK 

 


Darius Kadivar

Who ? Their Legitimate Sovereign ... LOL

by Darius Kadivar on

In the abscence of a legitimate government and or genuine representative opposition :

 

Libya's Exiled Crown Prince calls on world to stop 'massacre,' remove Gaddafi

 

Just kidding but then he has a point ... 


Rea

DK, lof of what you say makes sense

by Rea on

Civil war, refugees, and the rest.

But still, there is moral dilemma. When Americans intervened in Bosnia in 1995. they were asked by Sarajevo to do so. Who is asking for intervention here?


Darius Kadivar

FYI/Gaddafi loyalists advance to east (bbc)

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Darius Kadivar

That's the Fake pretext Liberals are spreading in Western medias

by Darius Kadivar on

The Arabs ? This is North Africa Not the Middle East.

In the meantime Gaddafi's Son is taking Control of the operations not his nitwit father.

 

Gaddafi loyalists advance to east (bbc)



If the West wishes to see a Civil War at their doors you can be sure that not only it will lead to a massive exodus of refugees towards neighboring countries and Europe but it will destabilize the democratic process in Egypt and Tunisia.

America should ACT NOW regardless of what the Arab or international community could think.

There is No Moral Dilemma Here !

Even Ahmadinejad was shocked by what Gaddafi was up to.

All these So called Great Politicians of this Millenium have to offer is Big Fat Talk and Great Speeches but when it comes to Act they are all Hot Air.

America and the Western Powers have Lost Total Credibility in the World and are No more the Beacon of Hope and Democracy for which their social and political model was so admired.

Forget Jefferson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, De Gaulle, Churchill and all those great leaders who knew when to make hard decisions.

Obama, Sarkozy, Cameron are Schoolboys in comparison ...

The Best way to answer Gaddafi is to play according the the Only Rule he understands:

Magnum... Did You See the Sun Rise?

The Rest is Bolony Pacifist Flower Power Junk good for University Campuses which deliver fake diplomas to future incompetent diplomats:


Blotted copybook

  German minister loses doctorate                     As Churchill once advised De Gaulle in Politics what matters is not what is deemed as a Moral Stance but what is deemed as a Right Stance which addresses the problem. History will then judge if what was done was Moral or Not.       Before trying to go down in History, leaders need to focus on what has to be done !   Those who do can be rightly called "Leaders" !   Today in the West we only have Schoolboys pretending  to live up to the Job.   You cannot negotiate with Wolves and reason them by extending them an Olive Branch ... It won't stop them to bite your hard for that "generous" gesture.   My Humbly Opinion,   DK 

 

 


Rea

Not so sure that Arabs

by Rea on

in Libya and elsewhere would see Americans as liberators.


Darius Kadivar

Huge explosions in Libyan capital NEW

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Darius Kadivar

GO FOR IT OBAMA ... Don't hesitate Liberate the Libyans !

by Darius Kadivar on

GO FOR IT OBAMA ... Don't hesitate Liberate the Libyans from the Mad Monster ! 

If Obama had the Guts and would Enter Libya with American Troops to "Liberate" the Libyans I am convinced that the population would greet them like the French did after D Day. Gaddafi is so hated that a foreign Intervention would not be interpreted as an Invasion like in Iraq but more like a Liberation. It would even make the Americans popular in North Africa in Constrast with their disastrous image in the Middle East.