FIRST THEOCRACY: Oliver Cromwell the King Killer (BBC)

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FIRST THEOCRACY: Oliver Cromwell the King Killer (BBC)
by Darius Kadivar
15-Oct-2010
 

David Starkey depicts the rise to power of Oliver Cromwell who very much like in Khomeiny was to topple the Monarchy and establish a Religious Republic. Naming himself "Lord Protector " ( aka Vellayateh Fagih) of Great Britian. Part of the BBC Award Winning Series on the Monarchy.

In 1644 the English Civil War was at its height and Monarchy - undisputable before the war - was under threat.

Part I:

Part II:

Part III:

Part IV:

Part V:

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A Comparative Example of the Late Ayatollah Khomeiny's Grip on Power

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Imam Khomeini says: I'm so sorry to let liberals rule Iran (Thanks Tapesh for the Link):

Iran's Parliament Officially Dismissing AbdolHassan BaniSadr upon falling out of grace of Ayatollah Khomeiny with the endorsement of Hojjatoleslam Rafsanjani and Ayatollah Khamenei:

Rafsanjani chooses supreme leader in 1989 (with subtitles):

 


Related Pictory :

pictory: a tissue of lies ... Kayhan issue in the aftermath of the revolution (1979)


Related David Starkey Blogs:

David Starkey's "Last Word" With Maryam Namazie about Iran and the Monarchy (More4 TV April 19th, 2006)

 

HISTORY FORUM: David Starkey - Return Of The King (5 Parts)

HISTORY FORUM:The Monarchy with David Starkey (Cambridge University)

HISTORY FORUM: David Starkey explains Henry VIII -The Imperial King (6 Parts)

HISTORY FORUM:Oliver Cromwell and the English Civil War with David Starkey (4 parts)

HISTORY FORUM:Monarchy - Revolution -Republic -Restoration with David Starkey (6 Parts)

HISTORY FORUM: Monarchy - The Early Kings by David Starkey (6 Parts)

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more from Darius Kadivar
 
alimostofi

His horoscope was amazing

by alimostofi on

His horoscope was amazing

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cromwell,_Oliv...

Some would say that the moment was chosen.

But compare it to Khomeini's horoscope which show religion and politics conjunction (Jupiter and Uranus).

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Khomeini,_Ruho...

Ali Mostofi

http://www.alimostofi.com

 


Immortal Guard

Dark Ages!

by Immortal Guard on


Darius Kadivar

FYI/David Starkey & Maryam Namazie debate on Iran & the Monarchy

by Darius Kadivar on

David Starkey debates with British Iranian activist, Communist and human Rights activist Maryam Namazie on Iran's nuclear dillemma, the Theocracy & the Monarchy (2006):

David Starkey's "Last Word" With Maryam Namazie about Iran and the Monarchy (More4 TV April 19th, 2006)

 


Darius Kadivar

Forgot to include this one ...

by Darius Kadivar on

Another interesting Take on the same topic from the view point of an Intellectual Bijan Abdolkarimi in Iran today and his take on the differences between the British Glorious Revolution (of 1688 and the British Restoration) which led to a Parliamentary System as opposed to the French Secular Revolution of 1789:

 

PS: Except the scholar makes a mistake by claiming that Charles Ist was not beheaded but replaced by his daughter. I suppose he confused Queen Elizabeth Ist ( who succeeded to King Henry VIII, the latter having failed to have a son) with Charles II who was restored on the throne a few years after Cromwells death.

Or was he thinking and or secretly hoping the same destiny for Crown Prince Reza's eldest daughter Noor ? ;0)

Hee Hee ...

Recommended Watchings:

RESTORATION: Britain's 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688 and the 'Bill of Rights'

HISTORY FORUM: David Starkey - Return Of The King (5 Parts)


Roozbeh_Gilani

your time came 31 years ago and is heading for the dustbin of

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

history now!

But to the topic; making comparison between Oliver Cromwel and Britain of 17th century and Khomeini and Iran's late 20th century is one of the most ridiculous things which can only come from a liberal detached from realities of life, a  product of English public school system ( private school for you american readers)!

Political events in pre industrial revolution of 17th centure England were not influenced by 20th centrury indstrialised capitalist states turned   Imperialists fighting for world hegemony, raw material, cheap labour, and markets for their useless model of "consumer society" of which khomeini and his "islamist regime" were a by product of. 

 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


reader1

Our time will come

by reader1 on

The European societies went through a period of reform, revolutions and scientific progress known as Renaissance and eventually evolved into the modern Western societies we know today.  The Kings, the Popes and the likes of Cromwell could not stop the evolutionary process, in the same way that natural disasters such as earthquakes, flooding and fire could not stop the biological evolution of Homo sapiens. Our society is not doing too bad – we have already managed to consign the “divine right of kings,”  to the dustbin of history and will hopefully, in a few generations’ time, do the same with  the “Ayatollahs Vellayateh Fagih” .


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Hoshang Jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Religious minds are not limited to Iran. I live in the USA and it is shocking how religious they are. Not one bit different than the most religious Iranians. According to polls one third of Americans think the Bible is word by word true.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/onethird-american...

The rest still believe just not every single word. How is that less religious than Iran.

Regarding clandestine assassinations I absolutely disagree.Sabbah may be the first *recorded* case. But there were humans on earth for thousands of years. Do you really think no one did it before then? Please come on people are really good at murder!


Hoshang Targol

VPKh jan, sorry to disappoint you with such statements, but

by Hoshang Targol on

as far as the substance of Aramesh Dostar's argument, what we have had in Iran is much worse than just religious state.

We have a very religious mind set, and such a mentality is not limited to our  belivers, but it also applies to our "seculars" as well as our " Lefties."

Clergy and religion played a most negative role in both Achaeminids and Sassanian.

Last but not least the bussines of assasination is organized clandestine violence, distinct from general physical elimination.  I could be wrong but I think Hassan Sabah and Co. were the first in that field! 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Hooshang Jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I normally appreciate your writings but this post is really off. For some reason we have these "Professors" and "Doctors" who keep coming up with crap.  First Dr Shariati told us our salvation was with an Islamic state. Now this one.

1)  First of all the Egyptians were far older than Achaemenids. Their state was "religious". As were the Greek city-states. In fact most of the word had mixed religion and state. It is only recently that people wised up to separation religion and state. The Achaemenids did not forec religion on their subjects. Neither did the Sassanids. The states that did include Safavids and the Islamic Republic. That makes a world of difference. It means freedom vs oppression.

2) The three big religions are all Semitic. They come out of the same area and are non Iranian. Sure Iran produced religion but not nearly at the scale of others. To say that religion is Iran's biggest export is only an admission of ignorance. 

3) Assassination has a long history. It was around before Sabbah. Many parts of the world never heard of "Hashishins" and practiced killings. I dare say  all human societies had killing / assassination long before the Esmaili.

This is yet another puffed up full of himself professors making unfounded statements. It is a shame universities hire the like of him. As they say "Molla shodan che asan; adam shodan che moshkel". 

VPK


kazem0574

Can't compare Cromwell with these Akhoonds

by kazem0574 on

Some see  Cromwell as a dictator  who tried to ethnically cleans the Irish.
But I see him as the actual father of British democracy when US was a land of red Indians.
He was offered the crown but did not take it and made Britain a republic.
After him a monarchy was established but more like the “Mosadegh’s Mashrotiat”, one in which the King has no real role but a ceremonial one.
Now tell me would any of our recent dictators(the shah) or the current IR dictators give up the crown and turn Iran into a true democracy?”


Hoshang Targol

Achaemenids as the "world's 1st religious state?"

by Hoshang Targol on

It  sounds a bit un-orthodox but at least according to Prof. Aramesh Dostar : in Iran since day one, first with Achaemenids, then with Sassanian,...skip to Safavieh, Ghajar, Pahlavi, IRI, religion and active participation of the clergy have been a constant in Iran.

What's worse, again according to the good Prof., this religious mode of thought " DIN BAVARY" is so entrenched into our social psyche, that even our most 'secular" and non-religious " the Left," also operate based on a religious mind set.

Don't want to put our "marze por gohar," down but it seems through out the history our main export has been religion : Zoroastrianism, Shiaian, Babism, Bahaism, " khomenism,"...

 

The other item we seem to have "perfected" is assasination: recall the origins of the English term comes from Hashish, and Hassan Sabah, and his hobby horses!

 

 


Farah Rusta

Earlier theocracies

by Farah Rusta on

If my knowledge of history serves me well, there was at least one theocracy before the times of Cromwell in Europe. Does the name   Savonarola sound familiar? He ruled in Florence in the dying years of 15th Century until he was executed on the orders of the Pope.

But perhpas the most prominent of theocracies was that of our own prophet Mohammad. Remember 23 years?

FR


Hoshang Targol

Aghay Kadivar, you're really comparing apples and oranges!

by Hoshang Targol on

Cromwell essentially represented the intrests of the rising Bourgeoisie who needed to limit or overthrow the monarchy to expand Capitalist relations of production, hence they were progressive and forward looking.

Of course comapred to what took place in France maybe he wasn't as radical, yet nonetheless  Cormwell is universally hailed as a modernizer. He did commit many crimes in Ireland and......

He pushed England and world history forward.

 

While our own rather pathetic Ayate Shaytan was from the day one a solidly pre-capitalist reactionary hell bent on dragging everything and everybody to his pre-capitalist level, and opposed to all that stood in his way.

He pushed Iran and world history backward not forward!

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

COP Jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

There is a terrible recession in the USA as you well know. SP has a "work from home" job. All he needs to do is sit on his bum and post obnoxious stuff. He gets paid with money otherwise bound for Hizbollah. So give the kid a break :-)

PS: I wonder if SP gets benefits; 401-K; flex spending that kind of thing from IRI!


Cost-of-Progress

Must be worth it, haa Mark

by Cost-of-Progress on

This job I mean; the kiss-ass ambassadorship of the anti-Iran regime of the unelected psychpath clergy. Otherwise, why would you subject yourself to this?

What's your story man?

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________


Anonymous Observer

Mark M., can you kindly take a vacation or something

by Anonymous Observer on

or in the alternative just STFU for a while?  Seriously dude, you're on every thread, boring us with the same nausea and /or bored-to-coma inducing nonsense.  it just gets kind of repetitive and extremely BORING.  Plus, you keep embarrassing yourself.  Every time you write a comment you just show everyone how little you know about Iran, its people and its culture. 

Tell you what...why don't you take your bike, go to Hawaii...and ride yourself right into the center of a volcano.

OR, you can try other ethnicities.  I heard there are murdering gangs of rebels in the Congo where they rape and murder civilians.  Kind of like the IR.  Why don't you go on African sites and defend them?  Hey, you can even tell them that your great grandfather was a minister in Congo or something!  Give it a shot.   


AMIR1973

Dear Souri Khanom,

by AMIR1973 on

Man, don't you ever take a vacation?

Not only that, but I don't think he gets much sleep either. If we believe his claim that he lives on the West Coast of the USA (and therefore on the Pacific Time Zone), then that would mean he is up at 2AM, 3 AM, 4 AM, etc. posting his asinine comments. Take care.


Genghis Khan

Good Rid(e)dance

by Genghis Khan on

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Souri

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Regarding SP:


Man, don't you ever take a vacation?

No, it is his job. He gets paid by the IRI to post.


Sargord Pirouz

Yeah, Souri. You're right, I

by Sargord Pirouz on

Yeah, Souri. You're right, I spend too much time on this. I've more serious pursuits, as well as recreational ones. 

Perhaps the biggest reason I'm here too much is I got rid of our television. You'd be surprised how big of a difference that makes!

Well, I'm off to walk the dogs. Then maybe I'll take a motorcycle ride up north, for a spell. The weather's cooled off, so that's a good thing. 


Darius Kadivar

SPink Jaan because I lack your outstanding Academic Credentials

by Darius Kadivar on

Where the importance given to spelling and rhetoric often Overlooks that of Ideas ...

Care for a bite ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue0fZfwHfzo


Souri

SP

by Souri on

you asked Darius:

"why have you encapsulated the word in quotation marks?"

I'm telling you: Perhaps because he was writing in a type "C" here?

Man, don't you ever take a vacation?

You are in every blog, every day!

I wish I had your free time and your money, so I would use it in a greater way, enjoying my life !


Sargord Pirouz

Darius, why have you

by Sargord Pirouz on

Darius, why have you misspelled the word "metaphor"? And why have you encapsulated the word in quotation marks?

Perhaps you're not as good at PR as you think you are? Granted, you've certainly got an insurmountable task representing that family of LOSERS! :S


Darius Kadivar

SPink Jaan It's Called a "Metaphore" ...

by Darius Kadivar on

But I grant you understanding subtleties is not your Fort ...

Would you now be kind enough to pick me up that bone ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvI3U8i2MX4

Thanx


Sargord Pirouz

Huh? The Shah wasn't killed.

by Sargord Pirouz on

Huh? The Shah wasn't killed. He ran away (again) like a scared little schoolgirl, remember? He even cried like a scared little schoolgirl.

Big difference from the behavior of Charles I. (at least in the popular conception)

Another big difference is that Cromwell was a de facto dictator,  and upon his death the monarchy was reestablished. In Iran, we're on our second supreme leader and fifth president. And the monarchial hopeful has been rendered an irrelevant, mostly forgotten joke of sorts.

Starkey's commentary on Cromwell is entertaining, I'll grant you that. I"ve watched it a couple of times. I enjoyed it more than the Snows' documentary "Battlefield Britain" which focused on the military history.