Abarmard

Zionism: A Conspiracy Against Jews

If you really want to know what is going on in the Middle East read what Henry Makow - A JEW - has to say:

"The "British" are really the London-based international banking cartel associated with names like Rothschild and Rockefeller. It doesn't answer to any government. Its goal is to colonize the world and everyone in it. Jews are a means to this end.

As seen in Iraq, Zionists (a.k.a Neocons) play a major role in the colonization of the Middle East. The important thing to remember is that Israel is the creation of this cartel; both Israel and the US are its tools."

FROM: //www.savethemales.ca/000482.html

(ma)NIAC not my idea of a solution

First the slogan. (Please excuse the bitter cynicism)

While I applaud your enthusiasm and loyalty, reality often bites. If your suggestion is that we should all hold hands, hum ey-Iran (because no one knows the words anyway) and join NIAC and merely hope that our newfound unity and Trita Parsi's self appointed "Leadership" will be enough to go up against the strongest PAC in the world, you are naively optimistic. Sadly so.

And bishookhi, I love you for it! And don't get me wrong, Trita is the smartest short person I know.

But sometimes a damaged and congenitally lazy people such as us, who have steadily refused the slightest community inovolvement in shuffling the badbakht deck we've been given to play with, can be so far up shitcreek with a chaiee spoon, that honestly, the best thing one can do is simply smile and sigh deeply as we plunge together over the waterfall. Ahh! Sweet Release!

Possibly the right answer is to metaphorically blow it all up and start over. Or, in this case let Israel do it literally on a limited scale in Natanz. Of course I can say this because I don't know anyone in Natanz. But if I did, I'd seriously tell them to move.

I know, it sounds wholly un-American to suggest we give up on the natural urge to fix Iran. But even though we might watch "Walker Texas Ranger", let me remind everyone, we aren't American. If we were, we'd have taken more responsibility for our country and would have kicked King George's ass out of our country like Chuck Norris would, way back in 1910 when we had the chance. 

So possibly Iran caving in on itself might do us all some good. Iran, or the romantic concept of Iran, is like a broken nostalgic record people like to keep gluing back together so they can play that same shitty old sweet patriotic song they love so much, over and over and over again. Like that poor sad deluded fat fake-blonde middle aged housewife in Orange County who goes to every single Googoosh concert and stands up and sings along and dreams she's 16 and hot once again.

I suggest maybe it's time we stop fooling ourselves, and being so obsessive/compulsive, wake up and throw out that old record, and write a completely new song. Putting our faith in a weak undemocratic organization like NIAC is like putting a bandaid on the ruptured artery of a 98 year-old boxer and sending him back in the ring. For God's sake let him go!

I mean we are technically supposed to evolve, right?

Now the solution.

Let Iran evolve. Or, in this case devolve enough so that nothing bad is left and it can finally evolve the right way we all know it can.

We can help individually by simply standing for a principle and making it clear to every non-Iranian we know, that;

• We individually do not support Iran's sharia-based policies,
• Explain why the Iranian President is a puppet to the puppet-master,
• Calmly ilustrate the many wikipedia available examples of how Iran's constitution is a sham
• Merely assert that the hejab is a common leash the first of many crimes used to lead and subjugate Iranian women with.
• Deny anyone who can't prove it, their claim to represent Iranians or the Iranian community's opinion on anything. Especially on international politics. Especially on CNN. Especially on the BBC.

Do these simple things and you will help build a new Iran, far more effectively and faster than any closed to the public NIAC meetings with AIPAC would.

So Mullah regime = IRAN??!?!?!

Pas mesle inke dar hokoomat velayat va esmat gooz ham be shaghighe rabt payday mikoneh. Hamantor ke Eghtesad be khar rabt paydah kard va maleh Kharaaaaah shod. It is another velayat’s miracle.

As long as IRI and its supporters find NIAC’s objectives aligned with their interests and keep answering for it, Iranians inside and outside Iran will remain suspicious of their true intentions. NIAC must unequivocally address their concerns and support their number one priority and interest and break this alignment. Until then the lack of trust and popular support will remain.

Jamshid, I see your point, but have some corrections

Please understand that I only write this back to teach you how to be productive in discussions. The first thing you should lose is the attitude, I think you will soon see how counter productive and illogical some of your rhetoric really is. We all make mistakes, it's only human. But only those of us who listen to constructive criticism have any chance of moving forward. I only hope you are ready to listen.

I read Mazoloom's post. There is no sign of racism in his writing.

I think you should read more carefully. From your past postings, I know this can be a problem, but let's move forward by confronting these issues one at a time.

The Soviets had far more resources available to them.

This is true. However, resources is not really the issue since there are example of resource-rich countries with every imaginable type of government. That's why I pointed to other examples as well. We can, for example take a look at East Germany or Yugoslavia versus India. India, a democracy also had increadible amount of resources, yet as far as advances and productivity it was behind eastern Europe which was considered "Second world". Same with some African countries that had republican governments and elections by the 1950's.

On the other hand, we can look at many non-free nations that advanced very rapidly. I already mentioned Yugoslavia, which had at one point a military in the top 7-8 countries in the world on its own. South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore were dictatorships for most of the cold war. These are tiny resource-less countries.

I think this is enough to disprove the strict causation theory which by any analysis is a gross oversimplification. There are many other factors, some of them I mentioned before.

Your Nazi Germany example is not a good one either. They used their advances to further oppress Germans and later their neighboring countries. Eventually this led to their downfall. They were similar to the ultra-fascist regime of IRI.

Well, except that we are not talking the "use" of the technology. The United States nearly started World War III in the Cuban Missile Crisis and many other close call moments. Everyone agrees it was very close to happening. If that had happened, US would have caused "it's own downfall". US singer missile technology was chiefly responsible for defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan, and it gave rise and prominance to Osama Bin Laden that later attacked America.

We do not have the luxory of judging the future. Thus, there is no saying which technology will ultimately backfire. All oppressive nations use technology to keep down their own people, like USSR. It's a seperate discussion, but not relevant to this point.

I hope you can become better and understand things that are not relevant more easily in the future. For your own personal growth, I think it's very crucial.

I have noticed that IRI supporters are using the "race" card in a methodical and uniform way to bring down some of the unfavorable arguments that are used by their opponents. However, this has failed miserably. They need to pull another deceptive propoganda ace out of their sleeve.

Very interesting observation Jamshid. I have also noticed some anti war Iran lovers that point out racism and bigoted thinking in some other commentators' rhetorics in order underscore the deep hostilities that lead one to war and killing of innocent Iranians.

At the same time, Jamshid, I have noticed many outright racists and bigots who openly admit wanting to cleanse their own kind, and consider their own race superior to others. It's very disturbing that such outright fascists keep using the race card to justify why they are right and indirectly why Iran should be bombed. Very disturbing stuff, Jamshid, I hope you keep your vigilant eye out for these anti-Iranian racists.

You don't seem to be fond of "Euro-centric" values. It looks like you hold a deep resentment towards those values. It's your own business to like or dislike what you want.

Well, I think I need to do a bit more education. The whole point is that some of these things are not European "values", everyone has them. However, some people like to immitate George Bush and pretend they are the giver and provider of these values for other people. Such people are misguided, arrogant and racist to think that Iranians do not understand or have rejected these values by staying in the IRI system. It's a reductionistic thinking usually exhibited in a litmited mind. But hey, it's your own business to like or dislike what you want. I do not judge.

I am just curious, why have you chosen a society with "Euro-centric" values to live in and to contribute to, and therefore to serve?

Well, I fully explained my true intentions to Zion after hours of interrogation techniques he used on me, so I don't feel a repetition is necessary. However, I wonder for those who would like to liberate Iran, I often wonder with a deep philosophical question:

Is sitting on your fat ass and blogging from Hollywood, intellectually debating the fate of Iran as self-appointed representatives, really the best way to liberate the Iranian nation? Is it really possible to understand what the poeple of Iran want and what sacrifices they are ready to make, while sipping Jumba Juice and flipping through HBO?
Like I said before, very disturbing...

you have chosen to be a "little" man well, I didn't realize you were an expert on this subject as well. Sometimes I "misunderestimate" just how many fields some Iranians can get PhD's in.

I think you honestly don't like the Euro-centric values,
And I honestly think you may be in love with some of them: fascism, communism, nazism, eugenics and apartheid. If you celebrate western values, and are not a "little" man like me, then you should not be ashamed of your "actions and belifs" matching on these issues. Bravo for living a life free of hypocrisy.

I don't say this to offend you. I only mean to guide you and show you how to become more in your life.

I fully understand. And as they say in America "right back at ya". :)

Re: Q

I read Mazoloom's post. There is no sign of racism in his writing. He simply stated that those in free societies strive more. This is historically a correct statement.

Your comparison of Soviets advances vs. smaller free European countries is not an accurate comparison of free vs. oppressed socieities' advances in science. The Soviets had far more resources available to them. When comparing in a fair manner, the Soviets could be compared only to the likes of the US who had similar level of resources, not to smaller countries like Sweden for example.

Your Nazi Germany example is not a good one either. They used their advances to further oppress Germans and later their neighboring countries. Eventually this led to their downfall. They were similar to the ultra-fascist regime of IRI.

I have noticed that IRI supporters are using the "race" card in a methodical and uniform way to bring down some of the unfavorable arguments that are used by their opponents. However, this has failed miserably. They need to pull another deceptive propoganda ace out of their sleeve.

You don't seem to be fond of "Euro-centric" values. It looks like you hold a deep resentment towards those values. It's your own business to like or dislike what you want. However, I am just curious, why have you chosen a society with "Euro-centric" values to live in and to contribute to, and therefore to serve? Is it because you prefer a Euro-centric valued society? But then you resent those values. What gives?

I think you honestly don't like the Euro-centric values, but instead of choosing to be a great man whose actions and beliefs are one and the same, you have chosen to be a "little" man who says one thing, only to not have the "jorboze" to act on it.

I don't say this to offend you. I only mean to guide you and show you how to become more in your life.

Would AIPAC and its members support the removal of Israel?

Gooz be shaghigheh che rabti dareh?

Islamist scientists needed

Keep the hot air coming Q. It`s just a shame that we are in summer. If only we could keep the ever continuously generated hot air by you to use in the winter, the entire Iranian.com community would pass winter without a hydro bill. It is about time the Islamic super-scientists and photoshop specialists invented something like that and blessed us all. Amen.

Anonym7,

racism or bigotry, take your pick. Zion is putting the followers of one religion and culture above another, but refuses to call it that... says: "no, I didn't say they were superior" but they're better suited for "intellectual and moral activity". An aboslute insult.

Ask yourself if it's OK to say "whites" or "christians" are better suited for "moral and intellectual activity?" Why are we making an exception when the target of the bigotry is Arab or Muslim?

Being Jewish is inherited according to most Rabbis. Other religions can't "adopt" Jewishness, it's "morality" or it's "value system" without being Jewish. This makes it available to only one race.

Q, take it easy with Zion

Q, although here and there I have seen racist comments by Zion, his claim that "Jews however have a more productive value system and culture (including up bringing) that is very suitable and in tune with moral and intellectual activities." may be the result of his immaturity not racism.
I am sure he is now aware that his generalization is not valid. Of course he is Zion (a sweet donkey) and he is not going to admit that he made a boo boo.

A little primer to Jewish supermacy Zio-speak

for those of you who just can't decode what Zion is saying, let me provide a handy guide. Note that I'm quoting directly from our uber-mensch overseers:

You see, it's NOT that
"Jews are racially superior", NO, Zion is not saying jews are better... no.. no, get that out of your head! It's just that Jews have a superior "value system" because their values are more "suitable and in tune intellectual for moral and intellectual activity.

No offense, that's not racism! It just says Jews are better suited for moral and intellectural activity!!!!

What racism?

Also, a few more edicts that may help us cope with our "complexes":

- telling the truth = "you're confused"
- pointing out racism = "you have inferiority complex"
- offence = defence
- self-defence = terrorism
- Iran nukes = illegal and aggressive
- Israeli nukes = what Israeli nukes?
- Iran hostile rhetoric = proof Iran wants to kill Jews
- Israel hostile rhetoric = confronting evil
- killing civilians by Israel = retaliation
- killing occupying foreign soldiers by Hezbollah = Iran-backed terrorism

- racism = "not racism!", Zion says so!
- Ignorance = truth
- War = Peace
- Freedom = Slavery

regarding AIPAC (to Zion ...)

Zion says: "Jews however have a more productive value system and culture (including up bringing) that is very suitable and in tune with moral and intellectual activities."

Zion, when it comes to guys like George Soros I agree with your statement above. Regarding AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) Soros says:

"I am not sufficiently engaged in Jewish affairs to be involved in the reform of AIPAC; but I must speak out in favor of the critical process that is at the heart of our open society. I believe that a much-needed self-examination of American policy in the Middle East has started in this country; but it can't make much headway as long as AIPAC retains powerful influence in both the Democratic and Republican parties. Some leaders of the Democratic Party have promised to bring about a change of direction but they cannot deliver on that promise until they are able to resist the dictates of AIPAC. Palestine is a place of critical importance where positive change is still possible. Iraq is largely beyond our control; but if we succeeded in settling the Palestinian problem we would be in a much better position to engage in negotiations with Iran and extricate ourselves from Iraq."

You are confused

Jelly,

listen my dear, you are confused. So let me explain it to you again. Jews are not racially superior to others or smarter or what ever. Get it out of you system. Jews however have a more productive value system and culture (including up bringing) that is very suitable and in tune with moral and intellectual activities. People of the Book, remember. Hence Jews are over-represented in academic, artistic and intellectual fields. Any other people who also adopt a similarly appropriate value system and culture will do the same, as I mentioned before. That is why Judaism is not a proselytizing culture. Righteous of any nation have a place with God, is the way rabbis put i in religious lingo. Chosen people is also meant as people chosen o bring morality and light to nations, as a vessel of blessing. It is not racist and is not based on any inherent superiority. Many other human communities also have similar notions, including ancient Persians and Zoroastrians. So take a deep breath and give it a rest. I think I have explained this at least 10 times here already.
It is very hard to hear what you don`t want to listen to, isn`t it?

Mazloom, the claim to Jewish supremacy

disgusts many people, not just because people get irritated by some Jews babbling nonsensical and bogus staistics like the one you provided.

Rather, it is because many Zionists have used that particular claim as a basis to steal Pleastinian land and justify Israel's apartheid and colonial regime. That is, the idea of Jew as a "chosen people", "better people", who were promised this land in which Palestinians have lived in for 13 consecutive centuries is repeated so much that many Americans, and you yourself, clearly believe in that nonsense!

Hidden in that colonial ideology is what you and Zion imply "Jews are better than Muslim Arabs" which has been used as a justification for State of Israel. No wonder why all these asinine statistics are thrown and idiots keep on cutting and pasting the worthless and bogus data.

Any group of people have good and bad. Jews have many REAL good that you can actually be proud of. The centuries of real anti-Semitism have made many Jews a very resilient group who tends to oppose injustice more than other groups. Unfortunately, the Nazi era has also taught many Jews to act like a child who has only learnt how to beat becasue of their experience of being beaten constantly.

The key is to which group do you like to belong? When it comes to fighting the evils of Zionism, progressive Jews are in the forefront of the fight BY FAR!  It is very understandable that honorable Jews wouldn't like to see all the Israeli crimes done in their name as Israel claims to be a Jewish state.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that you prefer to be associated with the group of Zionists who have just learnt Hitler's tricks intimately and try to apply it to the underdog du jour, the same way that Hitler applied to Jews who were the underdogs of the Nazi era.

Jaleh

LOL.

Is that so? You are always a treat, Q. :-)
You forgot to demand that I apologize to you this time. Losing it?

Make your own decision about NIAC

I have observed that NIAC opponents tend to be people who hate the IRI so much that they are willing to risk war regardless of the dangers. They want the IRI gone even if it means taking the whole globe with it. They are afraid that NIAC will bring reconciliation between Iran and the West and thus strengthen IRI.
They tend to associate NIAC with the IRI and thus make false and slanderous accusations. Due to irrational hatred they are unable or unwilling to admit that one may be opposed to war and oppose also the IRI. It is pretty much the old "You are either with us or against us".
The good news is that no one needs permission from anyone else to join NIAC nor is anyone required to join them. The United States allows us to make this choice for ourselves. My suggestion is to do your own research of NIAC and Dr. Trita Parsi. Then if you agree with them and are comfortable, join them without fear or intimidation.

huh?

I support NIAC, Im no muslim and Ive served jail time in the 90's for protesting against the IRI. baba jan, jam beshin, harf bezanin, nazarin khakto sarah bekhandan began mardome maro ba "bombaye atomi" va "ba cigarett" hagh daran bekoshan.

No, you idiot!

"retreat from difficulties" is clinical depression. Moveing away from the issue and not confronting them. You couldn't be more wrong. But that is unfortunately (for you) very much expected.

Face it Zion, once again, you have been caught red-handed not knowing what the F you are talking about.

The only thing "clear" after your repeated lies and denials is this: you don't know anything.

All you do is try to re-interpret reality in your own vision, be it about racism (which you justify as "normal") or psychology (where you unilaterally reinterpret "retreat").

Don't be such a stereotype Zion, it really doesn't help your cause.

Become a member of NIAC and let the Iranians to be heard

//www.niacouncil.org/index.php?option=com_con...

The discusstion on this blog has digressed again to what the "zionist" says. Who cares what he says. The point is we have an Iranian American organization that has been working to let the Iranians to be heard by the American public. NIAC is a voice of reason and is respected by the American media. NIAC needs you support to grow. Support NIAC by Joining it.
//www.niacouncil.org/index.php?option=com_con...

It matches you very well

Unlike a normal feeling of inferiority, which can act as an incentive for achievement, an inferiority complex is an advanced state of discouragement, often resulting in a retreat from difficulties.

This is quite a perfect match actually. That is where all this about `Europe-dominated prize`, `colonial power` and your usual cries of `racism` for anything you don`t like comes from. A retreat from difficulties by denying they exist, attributing it to a racist Europe-dominated view of your situation, a Zionist mentality based propaganda or similar external factors. That is why despite all we have been patiently repeating for you, you keep bringing up this straw man of race and racism. The accumulated anger and over-sensitivity are among clear signs of discouragement.
I`m sorry to hurt your feeling even more, but some one go to tell you this. In your case, one doesn`t have to be psychiatrist to see and recognize the clear symptoms. As I said, you are an ideal case study for all that is wrong with the present status of Iran. The more you write to deny it, the more clear it becomes.

"Inferiority Complex"

Since this is your new buzz word, and now along with all the other things you have figured out in life, you have decided you are also a psychiatrist, I went ahead and looked up "Inferiority Complex". As was almost pre-ordained, you turned out to be wrong, lying, or both. Ignorance or maliciousness born out of hatred? It really doesn't matter anymore you two have blurred the line:

An inferiority complex, in the fields of psychology and psychoanalysis, is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way. Such feelings can arise from an imagined or actual inferiority in the afflicted person. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme antisocial behavior, or both. Unlike a normal feeling of inferiority, which can act as an incentive for achievement, an inferiority complex is an advanced state of discouragement, often resulting in a retreat from difficulties.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

Emphasis mine.
First, I thought I copy the whole paragraph just so there won't be any excuses on your part on how I may have "taken it out of context".

So, which one am I? Did I do spectacular achievement? Or "retreat from difficulties" ? Your reason for saying I have this (based on pure bullshit, apparently), is only that I keep pointing out the superiority and inferiority. This is not part of the symptoms.

As you can see, I meet none of the symptoms. You and Mazloom, however, do fit the classic Superiority Complex which is an overcompensation for feeling on inferiority. In other words, the symptoms are that the person goes around justifying ways that they are superior to over-compensate. That sounds like a much closer diagnoses of you, Mazloom and quite a few Zionists. In fact, it fits the historical context much better. I think you have inadvertantly caused a correct diagnosis on yourself!

Once again we find that your "knowledge" far from being part of the "superior belief system", is thoroughly lacking.

The achievements of Soviets, even soviet Jews is not comparable with those of the free world.
Absolutely not! Let's take the Micky Mouse cold-war definition of "free" just so your mind won't blow up just yet.

Its true they were behind US and possibly one or two other countries like UK. But Canada? Australia? India? Brazil? Ireland? Portugal? Austria? Taiwan? Singapore? Turkey? Israel???

Absolutely not! Are you kidding me? USSR was ahead of plenty, in fact MOST free countries. Both in scientific, military and in literary and sports achievements. There goes your "theory".

The question is, how did the Jews excel in such a "non-free" system which actually bested many free countries?

According to you, it's all about "freedom" so how did this happen.

Is it possible Mazloom oversimplified and you simply covered his ass wihtout even understanding the argument?

That is also why most intellectual achievements in the Islamic world is due to Persians who retained parts of this shared ancient value system,
If by "old system" you mean wealth and knowledge accumulated from years of being the dominate (one might say colonial) power, than yes, that's perceisely what it was. But so what? Does that make the Arab system inharently inferior?

Given what they had, and what they achieved in terms of Mathematics and Philosophy, one might say, they "achieved" the higher bar.

But in any case, there is no comparison as to the races. Only the social and georgraphical circumstances. That's what You and Maz don't seem to understand.

This is not racism. You are sensitive because of an acute inferiority complex.

This IS racism. And you are full of crap with your pop psychology (see above). I hope "younger Iranians" reading this realize how full of it you are.

It really doesn't help you to write half a page on a subject you don't even understand. What a fool you made of yourself!!!

The key is in the upbringing

Q,
your example from Jews in Soviet Union actually proves the point Mehdi is making. The real fatal effect of lack of freedom is not the outwardly brutal power that limits people, although that is ultimately what lies behind all the ills and by itself delimits the productivity of a people. The achievements of Soviets, even soviet Jews is not comparable with those of the free world. That`s why despite all their brute force emphasis on such things in their school system, they were ultimately always lagging behind the West on all major fields. The real poison is when this becomes internalized by the majority population and finds itself in dogmatic forms of upbringing of next generations which kills of artistic creativity and independent rational thought from the onset. In all such societies, Jews were an exception because they did not internalize such dogmas and retained their free thinking culture and tradition during all ages. They had to bear immense unbearable outside brute force because of this, but the reward has been a cultural resistance to such poisonous dogmas. That is why they have always excelled in intellectual fields in a higher rate than the majority host population. The same is probably true for Armenians in islamic lands. Ironically, the closest phenomena to the Jewish situation are the Persians themselves in India (Parsees), who also excel in such field disproportionately to their few numbers among their host population. That matches well with what Dariush linked to, the close cultural and historical ties between Jews and Persians, and the healthy open minded value system in both jewish and original Persian culture. That is also why most intellectual achievements in the Islamic world is due to Persians who retained parts of this shared ancient value system, and those in Spain (Andalusia) that also benefit from the joint Jewish/Hellenistic culture of the region, especially in Alexandria. That probably even explains the relative success of Persian diaspora in the past 30 years, since those who had to flee or decided to leave the Islamist totalitarianism were also those who held more to their cultural ties with their ancient Persian culture.

This is not racism. You are sensitive because of an acute inferiority complex. It is understandable, but as an adult you should realize it and heal it, instead of denying it and drowning deeper in this swamp of hatred, denial and more entangled complexes.

I hope more younger Iranians realize this, and by recognizing this fact try to revive and re-learn their own ancient cultural values and update them to get out of their present misery, instead of following your path of loathing and hatred of all that is behind such success and diving in denial by trying to explain away the facts by covering it under ideological nonsense like `racism`, `orientalism` and `Europe-centered values` or what ever. They have already tasted the outcomes of your path in the form of the revolution and the regime that is sucking all their livelihood from them and is truly the embodiment of all the inferiority complexes that you exhibit and reacts to them by a pitiable effort of complete denial.

You are definitely very thin-skinned Q. Not in reaction to racism, but to these deep and ever worsening complexes of yours. You exhibit its symptoms all over the place and all the time. Your anger, your obsessions, your feeble attempts at sophistry, they all point to this. I have actually come to the conclusion that you are probably a perfect case study of all that is wrong with Iran.
I really hope the future generations learn this from studying the likes of you and manage to recover from all these. In that sense you have much to teach them.

Would NIAC and its members support the removal of IRI?

Let’s first agree on fundamentals and then move to discussing how that is possible. I assume from what you said here “To have IR removed, makes Iran a powerful country” the answer is probably yes. After all that is the number one interest of any kind of Iranians, eyeranians or otherwise. Then elaborate on the plan(s), timelines, risks, validation, chances for success, practicality and most importantly the toll that NIAC thinks must be paid to get there???
As we know there are no free lunches when it comes to take Velayat to Democracy. you guys know that, don't you? Then who, when, how and at what rate this toll must be paid?

Abarmard???

Mehdi Mazloom: you are right, I'm very sensitive to racism

so if you don't like my thin skin, don't make racist remarks. It's very simple really.

You presented a "measure" to distinguish between people's accomplishments. What you don't understand (and probably never will) is that this is a self-serving measure and inharently racist and Euro-centric way to view the world. The system which you are using is European created and Euro-Americans have naturally an advantage over this. You point to "free" government and economies, yet you fail to understand the foundations of the Western system which depended heavily on the accumulation of wealth in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries from colonization of the third world and continued economic domination in the post-colonial period.

You still keep insisting on using racial and religions categories. "jews this, Jews that" (let's face it all the "achievments" are by European Jews not the others) when the reality is that Jews were the beneficiaries of 500 years of colonial thievery along with the rest of Europe.

But even your bigger thesis is a gross simplification and questionable at best. For example it is a fact that many Jews excelled at science and medicine under the non-free soviet system. How do you explain this?

The Finns became the most productive people in Eurpe while under complete Soviet domination economically and militarily. The Armenian people did very well in Iran and Arab countries like Lebanon, Syria and Iraq when these countries were "not free" (this is such a micky mouse term definition anyway, the truth is a continuoum). People in Korea, Singapore and Taiwan achieved major economic growth while under Western-backed dictatorships. And the Chinese are doing really well now under one of the most repressive communist regimes in the world. How do you explain this?

According to Jamshid and many other Iranians, things were supposedly better in terms of economy and scientific output under the Shah's regime. But how can that be? That regime wasn't free!

You have come up with a Eurpean-dominated prize as the barometer of self-worth and "contribution" to humanity. This is just false! By your argument, it's not just Arabs, but also Native Americans, Africans and others who have not made as many "contributions" to society.

Lastly your comment about reproduction of "others" is increadibly racist, actually it borders on eugenic. I'm not surprised, many Israelis I've seen are very big on this racist notion of "population control" for "others." As is your clain that "jews" are helping to feed these (presumably excess) babies all over the world. Perhaps if global starvation and poverty had ended, you may have a point. But unfortunately the corporatocracy in the West heavily depends on it.

You cannot compare people's potential according to their race or religion. Their wealth and social structure is much more of an indication of economic and sicentific success. But even that is not a way to measure up the worth of any group of humans. I understand you are talking about political freedoms, but if that's the case, why are you using "Jews" as a category?

jamshid, don't try to be cute, it really doesn't work for you.

Do you really dispute any of those statements?
Is this your way of getting out of having to show one shred of evidence for this:

What bothers me is that 99.9% of IRI supporters are strongly supporting and financially contributing to NIAC.

I ask you once again. Is this pure slander, or do you have any insider information? It's a simple question, no need to try to get cute to avoid it.

Did you or did you not make up this number?

Jamshid:: what you said was actually wrong

99% of iri supporters have joined niac?

Sir, this is classic slander and guilt by association. please provide the proof.

Why you guys are so frightened by NIAC?

Those here who are using any falsehood, false propaganda and outright lying to attack the reputation of NIAC: WHAT ABOUT NIAC SCARES YOU? NIAC is not even a political group! NIAC has not voiced anything against Israel. What is the reason you are so afraid of NIAC? Why are you trying so hard to make people not join NIAC? Interesting how you love AIPAC and go to such extremes to justify its existence but attack NIAC as if it has done something wrong. Why?

jalelo

again, it is you and your cohort Q-tip who have such thin skin that, anytime someone taps you and the shoulder and ask you "hay agha jun, what have you contributed to humanity in past 900 years?". Since the clear answer is "hi-chi", (nothing), then you jump out of skin and blabber nonsense. As zion had stressed, my point was, any given group, is valued and respected by the amount and quality of its contribution to society. Not how superior or inferior he is (what the hell do they mean anyway?)

Both of you get real. We live in a knowledge based society, It is the  power of knowledge, where knowledge is power. Since Jews are the ones who generate more then their share (per capita) then others, they are respected for it. in  all facets of life. Medicine, philosophy, economy, art & theater, Music, chemistry physics. In other words, the ones who provide solution to hunger, chronic deceases, improvement to overall quality of life, are respected. Others who create problem, such as bring more and more children in this world with no means to feed, dress and educate them. Rather they wait for others to that for them, it is obvious, they will not be respected.

You fill the blank as which group is which.When our good and honest Muslims will contribute with the same proportion, I am sure  you two would be singing the same blues as I do.

As for admiration of the Nazis. yes they were smart people, however their contribution was manifested in the area of heavy engineerings, and little in other field (Medicine, phylosophy, socialogy etc).

I do agree with both of  you  that, Novel Prize does not fully reflect the true picture of entire humanity, and it it true the the west seem to be  the most beneficiary. But here we are taking about overall contribution to society. And lets face, Muslim have fallen behind on this arena - why?. It is summed up in few words, OPPRESSION, luck of freedom of expression throughout the arab & Islamic countries..

I really don't give a rat ass whether you call me with labels.what is important is you two get real, instead of being defensive every time someone pass a comment on your group however a constructive it may mean.

"the USSR was far ahead of

"the USSR was far ahead of many non-communist nations with a freer system"

"In 1941 Nazi Germany was the dominant power on Earth"

"That's actually not how Americans think about Jews or any other religion in the world"

"Those who are part of the dominant culture and have the most wealth and power never think this is a big deal" 

"Classic guilt by association, except, the association is even completely fabricated"

... And other BS.

I invite the person who made these claims to substantiate them somehow. Has this person been running a survey no one has seen? Or was it all hot air?

I thought so.

to sonngstress

You wrote:

(5) Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism sanction USURY -- so long as
it is not charged on Jews. That is, Jews can engage in usury with
non-Jews, but not with Jews.

On which plannet do you live. If that statement is true, then how the hell do you thing Israel's banking system, mortgage industry, and the economy function ?.

Sure Zion, are you a doctor too now?

It's clear this is botherning you. Sadly not the racism itself, but just the fact that people call it correctly!

wow, it's like the cat's out of the bag. You and Mazloom really don't like to confront your own racism... will say and do anything to spin it differently. Even though it's as clear as day to anyone reading. I am amazed.

You know how I know this really bothers you Zion? It's when you start throwing around words like "your type" and "your kind" and generalized terms like that. Because it means you have nothing to say about the person are talking about and simply want to condemn by a (concocted) association. Recall what I said about false assumptions being essential to racism? Maybe you should read it again.

Yes Zion, it is us lowly inferior Muslims and Iranians who haven't won as many Nobel prizes who are "obsessed" with this issue. Isn't it funny how only the people branded inferior are "obsessed" with it? I mean why can't they just take their seat in the back of the bus and be happy about it, you know?

Those who are part of the dominant culture and have the most wealth and power never think this is a big deal. "What's the big deal? So some people are superior, what are you obsessed?" They say.

I'm not obsessed. I just like to point out that measuring the worth or "contribution" of a whole race and religion (Mazlooms categories, not mine), by using Nobel Prize recipients is both stupid and racist. It's a very simple statement, but I look forward to you ignoring it or spinning it as usual.

It's all the Jews fault. Why did they have to be obsessed with this "inferiority" issue and have to escape from Egypt where they were enslaved? I mean, what was their problem?

What bothers me is that 99.9% of IRI supporters are strongly supporting and financially contributing to NIAC.
This is bullshit. Classic guilt by association, except, the association is even completely fabricated.

I invite the person who made this claim to substantiate it somehow. Has this person been running a survey no one has seen? Or was it all hot air?

I thought so.