How do they feel now?

Photo essay: 1979 revolution

by Ahmad Kavousian
06-May-2009
 
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Farhad Kashani

by Dariush (not verified) on

This is not about you are wrong or others are right.
This is about the facts, the truth, common sense and logic. You deny all of the above and repeat yourself like a parrot. I don't mean to insult you. It is your writings that triggers these comments.


rosie is roxy is roshan

Balance is necessary, Q /reworked

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

((Ok, Q, this covers a lot of ground that hasn't bctually een articulated here at all. Butt between thread and thread, subtext and subtext, I feel it's all interrelated and relevnat. Sorry for length).

Balance is necessary, Q, are people jumpy? Yes. Are we talking in ways we normally haven't? Yes. Here's why (at least for me).

Many of us were very hopeful for the first time in a long time after Obama took office. I think you too. For the first time I saw form here both in the Obama campaign and after, what I would call a center-left coalition (and yes, Q, my term Left here is independent of what I said in the post below).

Hope. We knew that for all the yipping and yapping of Israel, Obama and Hillary were not going to allow tjem to nuke Iran, and when I say "we" I mean me, but I also mean many other people who dialogued with me and/or whose dialogues I read. People believed that with so many common interests between US and IRI,first among them Afghanistan, there was hope.So a lot of people thought that human rights would at worst stay the same and at best improve. It all seemed so promising. .

Then little by little the IRI human rights horror show happened. I first realized it because since February I'd been reseraching the labor purges and I couldn't believe the choreography of arrests, trials and punishments between the two labor activism centers, Khuzestan and Kurdestan.. It was like watcing a ballet. And every day it got worse and worse and more horrific. But there had been preludes, and then it just went from horror to horror. Full-frontal attack on humn rights in all conceivable areas.

And then the girl, the girl, Q, this "geopolitcal Left" does NOT understand the signifcance of the girl either politically or symbolcally. The girl was left to rot for five years in prison because that's what IRI ALWAYS does with minors charged with capital crimes. They make them wait and wait until they are just old enough to avoid the more extreme outrage of the international community. 22 is just about right. And she happened to just be sitting there rotting like all the rest, and it happened to be time for the conviction, and there had been this huge international campaign. And the "right age" happened to coincide with the organiizng of this huge attack on human rights, with Iran as stage and the whole world as audience. Usually in these cjuvenile capital cases the more international pressure there is, the better it is for the sentenced. But it happened to backfire this time. She was a sitting duck. And a tiddly wink.

Global theater. Her original announced date of execution was STAGED for the day before Roxana's sentencing, I am almost positive her "sudden death' was staged for massive May Day purges of labor leaders celebrating in with the mil sig people celebrating in solidarity (bereft of course of their leadership, , who had been recently arrested, and surely were monitoring the girl, because it was a women's issue too.

Q, Delara was nothing more than a tiddly wink for them. They just  want to prove a point. Do you know a few days later a high judiciary official had the brazen gall to come out and state that if the international press hadn't been involved, she could've been saved? Do you fathom the meaning of this statement? And how do you expect people to feel when all this starts coming out after they'd campaigned for what, three years? 

Those who watch things like this carefully do NOT see her as only a symbol, but as a geopolitical pawn (and domestic, to terrorize internally). But others, yes they do see her mainly as a symbol. Okay I won't go into all that here. I basically alluded to it on your last blog. but I will say:.The only people for whom Delara Darabi was a pin-up girl was for IRI.

So yes, many people are DISTRAUGHT. Some are still in SHOCK.

s you know I have always been, against Imperialism, against US and Israeli depredations. But when it was Bush and Cheney I was very tolerant of IRI in a certain sense, many would say I "apologized". I said, well, the hardliner backlash happened because of the military flanking of Iran, and yep, I largely blamed us (US). But I see no fault of Obama's policies in relation to the new massive purge. None.

_____________________________-.

 

Okay, so i called this post "Balance.' and right now I do not sound balanced. But it's because everything is out of balance here. It always has to be one or the other. So little balance. This one has to scream about geopolitical depredations of Imperialist powers and whisper about internal human rights violations in Iran. That one has to scream about a stoning and whisper about white phosphorus. These people are behind the times. The day the two celebrity victims, Roxana and Delara, were featured together in the horror show, the distinction between internal rights and geopolitics ended. What happens after the elections, I don't know. But I know what I've been seeing  since January.

But I'm more concerned with humanly, not politically here. So when I protest Iraq it will be a thousand dead. When I protest a stoning it will be one tortured dead person.

One thousand lives divided by one thousand equals one. One life times a thousand equals a thousand. No distinctions. Life is life. No more whispering. Scream scream scream about both til my face turns blue.

Balance.

_______________________

PS As regards your last blog I had many things to say but you didn't reply to my post. Offer still holds.

Finally, I know, I know. You didn't bring up 90% of what I addressed here. but it's all in the air, impllicit in our exchanges (or lack thereof) so I did.

 

 


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Hassan Kachal!

by 1 Hamvatan (not verified) on

OK then, if Hassan Kachal works for you, then it must work me too. Any thing but akhounds will do .

Just what is your third swift looks like? It better not be Emam Zaman. Care to explain or still going around the circle? Stop blaming others. Show me (show us) a plan and stick to it. Just imagine that you are running for presidency,what would you do, seriously.


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find the Hassan Kachal! (to 1 Hamvatan)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

1 Hamvatan says: "NO sir, IT MUST BE swift. ... I mean seriously, considering REZA PAHLAVI"

During my lifetime I have been involved with two changes of swift type, first one was successful removal of Shah, the other unsuccessful attempt of toppling IRI. Go find the Hassan Kachal for the king and I will try my luck for the third swift change!


Mammad

FK

by Mammad on

Oh, I do not want to disturb your "yekkeh taazi" here, but let me enumerate for you some criminal - Anonym7 was nice to call them unnecessary - wars that the US has been involved with since WW II:

(1) Vietnam (2.5 million dead)

(2) Invasions of Granada, Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan

(3) Waging war on Nicaragua through the Contra thugs, including mining its harbors that led to the intervention of the International High Courts and condemnation of the U.S.

(4) Taking the fascist sides in civil wars in El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras.

In El Salvador, for example, the side supported by the US murdered Archbishop Oscar Romero, and raped and murdered seven US nuns, while the US was arming the fascist side to the teeth.

In Guatemala and Hoduras hundreds of thousands of people have been murdered by the fascist governments supported by the US.

(5) Overthrowing Salvador Allende in Chile, leading to the murder of thousands

(6) Supporting the Generals, and their leader Jorge Videla in Argentina in the 1976 coup that overthrew the democratically elected government of Isabel Peron, leading to 30,000 deaths and disappeared. Operation Condor, a secret collaboration between the secret intelligence services of Chile, Argentina, and a few other Latin American countries in the 1970s, killed thousands of leftist dissidents, with full knowledge of the CIA. In Argentina, for example, they would fly the victims to over the ocean, and drop them in the ocean while they were still alive. This is so well-known. 

(7) Taking the fascist side of Janos Savimbi in Angola's civil war and arming him to the teeth, leading to at least 200,000 deaths. The support stopped only when the government agreed to open up its oil fields to US companies. Go figure!

(8) Taking Israel's side in its occupation of the Palestinian lands, and helping it to colonize them.

And, this is just a sample.

And you keep saying, "irrational hatred of the US." First of all, what is hated is the US foreign policy, not the US itself. Secondly, given the above list - which is only a sample - who could blame people like me and Anonym7? Third, is there such a thing as "rational" hatred, as opposed to "irrational?" People do not wake up one morning and say, "from this moment I'll hate the foreign policy of the US." Educated and informed people do have some rationale for what they believe in.

Mammad

 


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evolutionary change in Iran?? :by Anonym7

by 1 Hamvatan (not verified) on

Evolutionary change in Iran?

Do you know what this even means? Sir, we are NOT dinosaurs but the regime is dated from 1400 to now. They have not changed since then, what makes you think they will allow gradual change to a better or even get close to democratic system? TRY never!

Evolutionary change in Iran at what expense? Just how many more people must die needlessly to achieve to reach a goal ? NO sir, IT MUST BE swift. the regime must be halted at once and with help of capable people run it course to bring freedom to all. When I say capable people I mean seriously, considering REZA PAHLAVI, why? Everyone knows him, he is clear headed, non violence, and more importantly cares about the welfare of the people.

We must stop sitting around if we want freedom, otherwise all these talks brings will us nothing constructive.

LONG LIVE IRAN


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I also don't wish for that! (to Q, and Kashani)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Q says "But ultimately, it could mean that IRI should be even more brutal to avoid "chaos".
------
Q, as much I disagree with IRI, I hate to see extremists such as Mr. Kashani get close to power in Iran. That is precisely why I believe in criticizing IRI, and evolutionary change in Iran. At the end of the day I believe those Iranians who have not allowed Iran to be turned into another Iraq, deserve to run Iran, not those who actively advocate sanctions, hostilities and war towards Iran.
So Q, I also hope that the 'scenario' does not happen, ...., however I can assure you that IRI's correcting its mistakes, and not more brutality eliminates that chance.


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Mullah Treason

by BBC's Mullah (not verified) on

Isn't it very interesting, not to mention disturbing, that every modernizing Iranian leader in the last 150 years has been eliminated with significant help from the mullah establishment.

From Amir Kabir to Reza Shah to Mossadegh to the late Shah, every leader who has wanted to modernize Iran and bring it out of the dark ages, has been destroyed with great help from the ayatollah community! Doesn't that tell you something about their love of country, or lack thereof? Whether it's Khomeini or Kashani or Nouri or Mudaress or any other sheepishoo akhund, they have always betrayed the Iranian nation so as to keep Iranians in the dark so that the mullahs can have some sort of significance in Iranian society.

Simply, they don't give a hoot about Iran and its place in the world. All they care about is their own filthy pockets, their own flea-infested place in society, their own satanic survival! As Ayatollah Khomeini, whose father was an Indian, once said, "We don't care if Iran goes up in smoke, so long as Islam survives."

It's just that simple, folkes. These people: Rafsanjani, Khalkhali (both Mongols), Khamenei (Turk) and their master, Khomeini (Hendi), are not "really" Iranian.

Do we need any other evidence than that which comes from the donkey's mouth, the donkey here being Ayatollah BBC, aka the Hendi Mullah. The akhunds simply don't care about Iran. For the bearded brigade, Iran is beautiful young woman which they will rape and rape and rape until she's broken and unattractive, used and abused.

I have met the enemy and it is the ugly bearded face of Islam. Sad, that to this day, we still pay so much credence to the Arab's trojan horse, the Quran.

Long live Iran and the Iranian nation!


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Here we go with Q Logic Again

by amirieh (not verified) on

Telling us how stupid we are for hating what these dirty akhoonds have done to our country. We are so ignorant, racist and judgmental.

Damn us who hate the IR so much. Damn us who hate this idiotic revolution. Dam us for witnessing how sorry and betrayed 99% of those who participated in this idiotic revolution actually feel. Damn us for blaming Iranians for once instead of blaming the Imperialists, Zionists and Colonialists. Q knows best people. Listen to him and stop being judgmental.


Farhad Kashani

Dariush,   First off,

by Farhad Kashani on

Dariush,

 

First off, stop the insults, second, let me tell you something about America and England, you know what is their secret of success? Well, at least one of top 3 secrets, its that they put their country under a microscope and identify the shortages so they can fix it, the same thing that you don’t want people like me and Fred to do with regards to Iran. In no country like these two, you see citizens bashing their government in such manner. Offcourse that also speaks high of the democratic traditions of these two, but nonetheless, they have identified the methods in which they can achieve progress.

I guess you want us to pretend everything is OK in Iran and talk about our great “Aryan” civilization and how good poets we got, and how good Cyrus was, and how beautiful Damavand looks, and to make ourselves feel better, talk about the shortages of others, namely Israel and America, because we want to be like them, but we cant, so we engage in bashing them.

Well, my friend, like Ibrahim Yazdi said, we have spent 2500 years being overproud of Iran, and the result is what we see today, for once, let’s stop talking and let’s do it. Let’s build our country. Let’s stop looking back and start looking forward. Let’s get the mindset of a 21st century nation, not 7th century nation. Our Islamists still want to create the “pure 7th century Islamic nation”, and our Nationalists want to “take revenge of the 7th century pure Islamic nation forced on Iran”!!

All that being said, my main point that I always try to make is that we are a better nation that having IRI holding us back like this. We are a great nation, with great liberal mankind-loving heritage, with great history and peaceful humane traditions. If I didn’t believe we are a great nation, I would simply say, well, this is what Iranians deserve. I am very rpoud of Cyrus the great, but his is 2009, not 500 BC! Iran looks nothing like Cyrus' time. At that time, Iran was ruled by a great liberal king, now, its ruled by a war mongering Fascist dictator.I’m saying we’re a great nation, and this far far far far from what we deserve. That’s what you guys say. You guys have set the standard so low for our nation that’s its really sad. You are happy with the women in Iran taking their scarf back one inch every 10 years because the regime allows them to do so! You’re happy with going to Iran and thinking because you had delicious chelow kabob in Darband, then, that’s a sign of great things in Iran, and you’re neglecting the suffering of millions of Iranians who have no freedom and are always at threat of war because of their war mongering regime, and are suffering unemployment, inflation,…

Also, as an Iranian, what should my priority, what happening in Iran or whats happening in Palestine? Its a simple question. Maybe you can answer.

 

That’s the difference between us my friend.


Q

The downward spiral of righteous judgementalism

by Q on

Unfortunately something -- be it stress or the feeling of helplessness or just the need to feel important -- has thrown otherwise decent people into a downward spiral of judgementalism. I suppose attacking others and calling their ethics into question is a way to control something in your life.

It's no longer good enough, it seems, to attack people for what their stated point of views are or even based on frivolous associations, but now the trend is to hold them responsible for they didn't say. This has gotten beyond absurd and really represents a new level of self-centered lunacy. What's worse is that these people seem utterly oblivious to it. The (flawed) logic goes something like this:

1. I have chosen to contribute to some higher cause ("future of Iran", "democracy", "rights", etc.) as the most important thing to do.

2. I have chosen a particular method or instantiation of materializing the contribution in part 1.

3. If you fail to make the same exact judgements as in 1 and 2, you are a monster. To prove you're not a monster, you must comment on my thread, echo my views, denounce who I say you should denounce and praise who I say your should praise. I will follow you around to make sure that you do. Nothing else is important.

Note that this isn't if you disagree with the values or question the methods. This is if you "fail to do exactly as I'm saying and doing. Because I have found THE gospal truth and there is no other way to look at this."

If someone didn't echo my talking points, that person must not have humanity. Let's brainstorm about what kind of evil monsters they are and what we can do to expose them or neutralize their "activities."

It's perfectly reasonable to me to hold someone accountable for what they write, challenge and debate them on it. It's absurdly comical to hold them accountable for what they did NOT write, read some evil intention into it and condemn them in absentia.

Actually it's not comical, it's disappointing bordering on disgust and unworthy of dignifying with a response.

Mehrban,

A sarcastic remark implying that tolerance should apply to the mullahs and the pasdars as well. Am I wrong?

Yes. First, the sarcasm is about the unrealistic and dillusional people who have no clue of what they are talking about with regard to their grandiose "plans" for future of Iran, not my own perscription for it.

Second, avoiding a mass murder of some generic class of people as "Mullahs" and "Pasdars" is a tautology, not relevant to 'tolerance' except in a cartoonish way.

Parham: I'm not sure I understand. "Betrayal" is in the eyes of the beholder. Yes, the Monarchists were betrayed, so were the Mojahedeen, Fadayeen, Communists and ethnic seperatists, as well the the groups that you are actually thinking of.

I'm sure many people did feel betrayed, as the Revolution involved pockets of people with different agendas and ideas for the future. It was pre-ordained that this would happens as there was only one direction the country could go and many ideas were in conflict with each other. Whether or not this betrayal is justified is a subjective judgement. For me some of it is and some of it isn't.

Anonym7: That's an interesting hypothetical scenario. Perhaps I should use 'fantasy' to convey just how hypothetical it really is. But ultimately, it could mean that IRI should be even more brutal to avoid "chaos". I'm not sure I agree. Blame for consequence of any action goes to people who carry out those actions. I accept that degrees of blame could be shared by multiple entities but "they made me do it" is not an adult response.


Farhad Kashani

Anomym7,   Like I’ve

by Farhad Kashani on

Anomym7,

 

Like I’ve said before, if people like you agree with what I’m saying, then, I know I’m wrong and need to re-think!! So, since you are the true extremist by supporting the IRI regime which is , by far, the most extremist regime in the world, and since you have irrational hate towards America and Iran and liberal human rights values, and since in your discussion with me and others, you have shown little to none civility, tolerance and respect for other’s opinion, which shows evidence of extremist in your behavior and thoughts, and since you act like a bully-wannabe and an uncivilized human being, then, keep disagreeing with me ! I love it.

 

One last note: you said U.S has been into unnecessary wars, explain which “WARS” and not war?


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Post Islamic Dictatorship

by BBC's Mullah (not verified) on

One thing all Iranians should do more is READ MORE ABOUT THEIR OWN HISTORY!!! Specially 19th and 20th century history! A very good book is Cyrus Ghani's "The Rise of Reza Shah." Another book, a masterpiece really, is Ervand Abrahimian's "Iran Between Two Revolutions." This is a monumental contribution to the story of Iran and should be read by all Iranians!

That way, instead of making lazy conclusions, you can read about your recent history so we don't make the same mistake all over again. For example, if we had known our history, we would have been privy to the crimes of the akhunds during the Constitutional Revolution, when Akhund Nouri laid the seeds of the Islamic Revolution. If we knew our history, we would have known that Mullah Mudaress stopped Reza Shah from absolving the monarchy, because the akhunds despise a true democracy. Remember, it's always much easier to put pressure on ONE KING, whereas it's much more difficult to manipulate some 437 elected members of the parliament.

Lastly, I pray for the day oil will go away! Oil has been our major curse. The reason the mullahs can send $300 million every year to the Lebanese Hezbollah, is because these funds come from oil sales and not taxes, and as such the mullahs are not held accountable to the people.

Do you think the Iranian public would put up with sending $300 million of hard-earned taxpayer money to some Arabs in Lebanon when we have 60% living in poverty? The mullahs can get away with this illegal transfer of Iranian resources because it comes from the sale of oil. Every time they need money, they just stick a pipeline into the ground and money comes out in bunches.

Oil is a curse, because it absolves the mullahs from any accountability to the people! There would be an uprising if the mullahs wasted taxpayer money, but right now, people don't seem to care if the mullahs waste billions of dollars of oil income, because it's like free money anyway. No one worked for it, the way the American treasury is filled with hard-earned taxpayer money. Remember the American revolution started because of taxation without representation!

I suggest you should all use less gasoline and hope and pray for the day that oil becomes extinct. That day, Iranians will have to use THEIR BRAINS (which we have in abundance), like the Japanese, to make their country great! Japan has no natural resources, and yet, they are an economic giant!

As they say, necessity is the mother of all inventions! We have the brains, but we also have the cancer of Islam, which, thank God, is on its last leg, and when we get rid of oil and Islam, then we can develop into a mature and responsible nation.

Lastly, our tortured histroy tells us that Iran has been occupied many times by foreign groups. And we are occupied RIGHT NOW by a foreign band of terrorists who have an anti-Iranian mindset, a mindset borne in the deserts of Arabia. As such, the mullahs are NOT Iranian! If you ask them, they say they are Muslim first and Iranian second.

The mullahs believe in the Islamic Umah, the Islamic community with no national borders -- one large Islamic cesspool living under the guidance of a perverted ayatollah. So, right now we are experiencing an occupation, which just like all the other occupations, WILL END!!!

And when it does, Islam will become like Christianity in many European countries, i.e., it will become irrelevant over time, and that is the one thing that scares the mullahs to death! They are scared to death that, over time in a modern society, they will become irrelevant like Christian pastors and priests and lose all of their power!

This is EXACTLY what's going to happen and deep down they know they can't stop the march of progress as much as they cannot stop the passage of time! But they will fight tooth and nail and make the Iranian nation pay a very high price for getting rid of them, because again, they're NOT Iranian and don't give a damn about Iran!!!

So, please, all you mihan-parasts, don't lose hope! If history is any indicator, we will get Iran back from these foreign occupiers, WE WILL GET IRAN BACK!!!!


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hmmm...let me tell you..

by sara29 (not verified) on

Well...most of them are out of iran....living..enjoying...and laughing at people who are still living in iran....thats life....rang avaz mikonan vaghti ke niyaz hastesh


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nightmarish hell (Iran)? (to Kazemzadeh)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Kazemzadeh, plenty of things are wrong in Iran, ....inflation is vicious, wages are low, culturaly the country has descended to a level that to those of us who left decades ago seems disgusting, .....,
despite all that I see many Iranians go back and forth, I have even seen people (one, a well known artist) who have gone back to stay ...
If Iran is such a hell that you claim, why some Iranians opt to stay after several visits?
When was the last time you visited Iran?


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Farhad kashani

by Dariush (not verified) on

What I really like to know is, what they have been feeding you?

If you don't like IRI for some reasons, that is understandable, but I cannot believe that an Iranian can look at our history and be pro-west in particular British and America or pro-Russia or Arabs for that matter, unless, he/she is looking only for self interest instead of national interest.

You and Fred always put Iran under microscope wishing to find more problems to use in you propaganda, but when it comes to west and Israel crimes you become paralyzed. Then you say, you are Iranians? IRI being wrong, doesn't make America or Israel right!!! Unlike you 99% of Iranians know that.


Mehrban

Dariush

by Mehrban on

I have no deadly plans.  I do believe that there should be room for the clergy and the pasdars, etc in a democracy in Iran if they are committed to uphold the constitution of the country, what ever that maybe at the time.  

My point to Q is in her seemingly selective protest against intolerance, at this point in time the biggest intolerance is being excersised by the Islamic Republic. 

Let me say it a little differently, my problem with Islamists (?) is not that I do not want them included in the political process, it is that they have excluded everyone else. 

PS. You may have read Q's (sarcastic) comment pasted in my post as mine . (?)


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Mehrban

by Dariush (not verified) on

With all the deadly plans that you have, you call yourself Mehrban?
Based on your plans, the number of people being hanged by you will be in hundreds of thousands, making you much worse than some criminals in IRI. This is not the kind of change we need in Iran. This is a change for worse not better. Frankly, when IRI reads this kind of comments, they panic and become more deadly. Since they can not get their hand on you, other political prisoners and public pays the price.
In a way, you are helping them by giving them reasons.


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IRI? (to Kashani)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Kashani_jAn, my views are pro American as well as pro Iranian. I find your extremist AIPAC inspired views anti American, as they have pushed U.S into unnecessary wars. Regarding IRI, I strongly appreciate that IRI has not allowed the interventionists turn Iran into another Iraq, however I have been highly critical of IRI for its mismanagement of economy, excesses, etc. Please see my comment "Farhad chAkhAn and toppling of IRI" @ //iranian.com/main/2009/may/savak-interrogato... which I wrote before your comment.


rosie is roxy is roshan

Dear MK, Q /Horrorwood, IRI-the Oscars /Apologism

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

Thank you both for your replies, one very long, one very short. I understand that both imply much respect and caring for me as one of a very small handful of regular bloggers who are not Iranian,

MK, you wrote the long post. I'll have to read it more carefully with the links and I'll reply later. Thanks so much.

__________________________________

Q, You wrote the short post. I understand that you find my recent words and actions very upsetting, as you and I have long been in many ways ideological partners. So I also want to respond to you at greater length. But I do want to say a few words here.

My comment that anyone who wasn't on the Osanloo torture thread not being a Leftist was obviously not literal. It is not about one thread. Or about one person. I will elborate on this explicit point you address to me as well as others I feel are impliccit. For now I am going to link four fairly recent blogs of mine which you can skim if you like, to get a sense of why my position seems to have changed.. 

1. My hard fought for expose of the emerging crackdown on labor earlier this year, featured all weekend on a very active blogging weekend, with title Striking Iran specifically chosen to "lure in' the "geopolitical Left" with very clear qoncerns specifically addressed to "my Left", as I called them. Number of repsondents from this Left: zero.

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/striking-iran-0

2.My first cohesive comments on what I had, since my research on the labor purges began, more and more come to understand was the enormous staging of one gigantic macabre horror play with Iran as the stage and the Iranian people and the entire international community as captive audience

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/so-who-will-win-oscar-horrorwood-iri-roxana-or-delara

3. My initial response to (the STAGED publicity stunt on May Day  of)Delara 's execution (following her original executinn date having been STAGED to be the day before Roxana's sentencin in a STAGED publicity stunt), articulating some of what I see as Delara's broader significance .

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/delara-and-we-land-birds

4. A blog I just wrote a couple of days ago on IRI Apologism. I copy my main point here.

 

"To continually evaluate one's own country's deeds and misdeeds solely in comparison with those of foreign powers implicitly denies that the Iranian people have any capacity for autonomy and agency,  and is an inverted, internalized neo-Colonialism of the soul".

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/apologism-inverted-neo-colonialism-soul

 

Take care.


rainbowcountery

Persians of Africa ...

by rainbowcountery on

 

Iran is better off today than it was 30 years ago ... Can you say the same about US or any where US had a hand in (aka Somali ... Afganistan ...)

 

Persian of Africa see a bright future a head ...

LISTEN REALLY 


Parham

Q

by Parham on

It seems you skipped my question as well.


Mehrban

What have I missed?

by Mehrban on

Q you said,  "Hamed jan, don't you get it? We will have plenty of time to practice tolerance once we kill all the Mullahs, hang all the Pasdars and westernize all the Muslims".

A sarcastic remark implying that tolerance should apply to the mullahs and the pasdars as well.  Am I wrong?  

At the present what is pressing is the mullah and pasdars' lack of tolerance. It is they who are doing the killing and hanging now not hypothetically in the future.  I have not heard you talk about that.  Not that you should, you should do what suits you. But your protest against a lack of tolerance for mullahs in a post, relating to some hypothetical, far and unknown future seems odd next to your otherwise silence on this issue. 


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Farhad chAkhAn and toppling of IRI (to Q)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Q, whom would you blame more if Iranians loose their tolerance, and with absence of any strong alternative, Iran descends into total chaos?
Let me be more specific, suppose Jamshid finds his 100 good men. Furthermore assume Farhad chAkhAn lies in his resume and ends up among Jamshid's 100 men. ..., and they go to Iran, organize people, and topple IRI, ....., and we end up with King Jamshid the magnificent.
Let say after a while Farhad chAkhan the extremist challenges our good king Jamshid and Iran descends into total chaos. I will then blame IRI, and more specifically its years and years of economic mismanagement, its excesses, ..., for that. I will hardly blame Farhad chAkhAn, although I regard him as one of the biggest exaggerators and extremists I have ever come across!


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Well this is a legitimate

by Free thinker (not verified) on

Well this is a legitimate question.
How would they feel now?

I assume the answer depends on which side of the spectrum you are in. Have you been affiliated with the previous regime, you would have had one answer and if you are affiliated with the existing regime, your response is certainly the opposite.

However, the more important question that needs to be asked is "How the Iranian nation would have felt now had they NOT gone through this experience?"

Have we all, as a nation, learned a lesson from this experience?

How would have the society evolved had they NOT gone through the revolution?

Irrespective of what your political inclinations are, one can say that society has gained better understanding due to the experience that it has gone through. Again, I fully recognize that it has paid a huge price.


Q

Mehrban,

by Q on

I can't believe you missed the point and feel self-entitled to project whatever you want into other people.

Your username is definitly not fitting.


Mehrban

Q

by Mehrban on

I can't believe here you are asking for tolerance for mullahs and entourage in some unknown future while saying nothing about their utter lack of tolerance for everyone else now.

 


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"Tolerance"

by BBC's Mullah (not verified) on

Hamed -- You accuse me of not being "tolerant" of differing opinions. You could not be more wrong! Seriously, do you have no better contribution than to accuse me of not tolerating the Mullah Nazis and their despicable supporters?

No, I would never tolerate the opinions of someone who supports the likes of that murdering criminal, Mongol Rafsanjani, who has an arrest warrant issued for him for the bombing of a Jewish house of worship in 1994, where 168 innocent people were killed seneselessly. No, I don't tolerate the opinion of those who support animals who rape young women (virgins) the night before they are executed so as to stop them from going to Heaven.

And would you blame a Jew for not tolerating the opinion of a Nazi after the Nazis senselessly killed 6 million Jews? Tolerance has its place, but most of all, IT MUST BE EARNED! It is a two-way street. Tolerance begets tolerance! If these fascists and their supporters don't tolerate differing opinions, why should we tolerate their bombastic wickidness?

These Islamic thugs would kill me right now if they knew where I was. The recent blogger who was killed in Evin, Omid Mirsayafi, all he wrote in his blog to Khamenei was: "Do you love me as much as you love a Palestinian?" And they killed him for it!!!

No, I do not and will NEVER tolerate the opinions of such beasts, and certainly, I shall NEVER tolerate the opinions of the supporters of such callous beasts.

These animals have not EARNED the right to be tolerated in a public forum. They kill those who disagree with them, and for that reason alone, their wickidness should not be tolerated. Democracy doesn't mean just casting a vote, it means respect for a plurality of opinions. I will respect your opinion so long as you respect mine. When you start harassing, and worse, eliminating those who disagree with you, well, to me that is a red flag, and extending tolerance under those circumstances is just foolish.


Masoud Kazemzadeh

They ...

by Masoud Kazemzadeh on

The Marxists: either imprisoned, tortured, raped, executed, went to exile in Europe, now disillusioned with their former ideology.

 

The Mojahedin: either imprisoned, tortured, raped, executed, died in armed struggle against the regime, in Ashraf camp in Iraq, disillusioned residing somewhere.

 

Feminists: arrested shortly thereafter for protesting against compulsory hijab, later on imprisoned, tortured, raped, executed, left for exile in Europe or the U.S. Wondering what the hell were they thinking.

 

Liberal Democrats: arrested, tortured, executed, assassinated, left for exile in Europe or the U.S.; remain in Iran and resist risking their lives and liberties. Wish they knew then what they know now and would have supported Bakhtiar.

 

 

those still alive probably still regard those days as the best days of their lives, exciting, empowing...

 

...followed by bitter memories of hell on earth...

 

...and hoping that one day soon they can march again in the streets of Iran and overthrow the fascist fundamentalist regime and celebrate the liberation of Iran.  Lets hope this wish comes true and we all can celebrate and dance in a free and democratic Iran.

 

 

 

 

Fundamentalists: tortured and raped and murdered the Marxists, Mojahedin, feminists, and liberals. Many died in the war. Some are multi-millionaires enjoying life. A few decent ones feel terribly guilty (e.g., Montazeri) for establishing the nightmarish hell they created.

 

 


Masoud Kazemzadeh

For Rosie on Islamic Fundamentalism, Fascism, Revolution

by Masoud Kazemzadeh on

Rosie,

No serious scholar genuinely believes that the fundamentalist regime is a democracy. Some may write such a disingenuous in order to get access to Iran (so that they can come and go and not get imprisoned and tortured or killed). Scholars and journalists have to say these lies in order to go to Iran, get published, and get promoted in their careers. The same lack of honesty existed under the Shah.

Democracy means free and democratic votes of the people chooses who is in the parliament or executive or other offices while the rights of the minority is protected. Since 1980, there has NOT been one single free and democratic election in Iran. Therefore, no honest person could say that there exists democracy in Iran.

Some idiots or charlatan say that for the Middle East, the fundamentalist regime is more democratic than its neighbors. This is utterly false. Lets review.

1. The elections in Turkey was a zillion times more democratic than those in Iran. The secular system has allowed an Islamist party to participate in elections and this Islamist party has won several elections and currently holds the Presidency and Prime Ministership. The equilalent in Iran would for the fundamentalist regime to allow a secular groups such as the Iran National Front to participate in the elections. Turkey has a loooooot of problems, but the is no comparison between Turkey and the fundamentalist terrorist regime.

2. The elections in Pakistan made the incumbent dictator Gen. Perviz Mosharaf to leave and the opposition PPP to assume the government. Again, there are a loooooooot of problems in Pakistan, but the fascistic regime in Iran is a zillion times worse.

3. Afghanistan. Even under American occupation, there are elections in which people can choose whom they want in a manner which simply does NOT exist in Iran.

4. Iraq. Even under American occupation, there have been elections in which people can choose whom they want in a manner which simply does NOT exist in Iran.

5. Even in Lebanon, the elections are a zillion times better than in Iran.

6. Even in Egypt and Kuwait, those not within the ruling circles are allowed to participate in elections and they sometimes get representation.

The reality is that American OCCUPYING troops have more trust in the people of their occupied countries than the fundamentalist oligarchy has of the Iranian people. In other words, the American occupation forces allowed free and democratic elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the fundamentalist terrorist regimes does NOT provide the Iranian people even that much freedom.

 

In elections under the terrorist regime, the ruling gang simply provides a bunch of fundamentalists and says you can vote for one of us.

 

There is NO democratic element in the nezam velayat faghih [the system of clerical rule]. If democratic element means that the people can choose what THEY want, then there is no place where the Iranian people can choose whom THEY want. If someone came and told a person: "you can be shot on the right side of your temple and get killed or shot on the left side of the temple and get killed, it is your choice."  This poor PERSON is NOT the one who is determining his/her fate. The person does NOT want to be shot on either right side of the temple or the left side of the temple. Would you say that Roxana Saberi had a choice if they said you can stay in cell 205 or cell 204, if Saberi's chose is to be free and with her loved ones? Or would you say that Osamloo is treated fairly if the torturers gave him the option of being lashed in the left leg or the right leg?  If Oslanloo does not want to get tortured, then asking him to choose only which leg he can vote to be flogged is irrelevant.  If the overwhelming majority of the Iranian people oppose the fundamentalists and want democracy and the terrorist regime says you can choose this reactionary terrorist thug or that reactinary terrorist thug, then the Iranian people do NOT get to get what THEY want. 

 

The concept of the "democratic element" was used to describe the American constitution when it was drafted 220 plus years ago to describe the House of Representatives to distinguish it from the aristocratic element, the Senate. In the choosing of the president, the democratic element is the people voting for the electors in the electoral college. The supreme court could serve as a check on the democratic element in a mixed system (the so-called Aristotlian system combining democratic element with aristocratic element, and monarchic element).

There is absolutely categorically NO democratic element in Iran. The system is a terribly reactionary brutal oligarchy. There are psuedo-elections in which the fundamentalist regime presents ONLY members of the fundamentalist oligarchy. People can choose THIS reactionary brutal fundamentalist or THAT reactionary brutal fundamentalist.

If there existed a brutal oligarchy in the US that allowed only members of the KKK to run for the House of Representatives, Senate, and White House, would you say that there existed an element of democracy in this 100% KKK ruled system?

 

 

The fundamentalist regime is an oligarchy. One element of competition among members of the oligarchy is getting votes.

There is no free election in Iran. There is no freedom of the press in Iran. There is no freedom of political parties in Iran.

The overwhelming majority of the people oppose this reactionary oligarchy. Many do so in passive ways, a few brave ones in active ways. Students, women, workers, resist. They pay a heavy price.

Why we only hear about fraction of the brave resistence of the people? One reason is that the regime gets somewhere between 40 and 96 billion dollars every year from the sales of oil and natural gas. It can purchase "intellectuals" to propagate for it. In the opposition they are referred to as "fahesheh siasi" [political prostitutes]. These are individuals who provide their services to whomever is in power and pays them. The regime has a lot of people who "work" for it.

 

 

 

The term "revolution" is used in contradistinction to "reform." Your point is valid. The fundamentalists are an ultra reactionary group. Read The Communist Manifesto, section entitled "feudalistic socialism." Marx and Engels observed a reactionary group of pre-capitalist group that attacked capitalism from the right wing reactionary side. Even in the U.S. many slave owners criticized industrialized capitalism in sentiments similar to the right-wing reactionary Islamic fundamentalists. In the U.S., the KKK, the Nazi party, and the ultra right wing groups do not want reforms in the U.S. They want revolution here. Similarly ultra reactionary groups such as the fundamentalist regime in Iran and the al Qaeda are ultra right wing reactionary revolutionaries.

 

 

 

 

You and many like you are looking for a pattern in Iran similar to the pattern in other revolutions (French or Russian). This pattern of revolutions is best described and analyzed by Crane Brinton.

//www.historyteacher.net/EuroProjects/ExamRev...

 

If Brinton is right, Iran has been stuck in stage 6 (a lunatic fringe composed of Khomeini, Khamenei have kept power in their own hands).

 

 

 

 

 

 

There does exist anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism from the right wing. For example, al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden are genuinely and truly anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist. They fought against Soviet imperialism and now against American imperialism. Khomeini and Islamic fundamentalists in Iran are similar to Bin Laden and al Qaeda. They are against colonialist forces from a reactionary oppressive misogynist perspective and demand. The Western left gets confused because it assumed that if one is against imperialism then that group is good and must be supported. There are groups that are WORST than imperialism. They are called fascists, Nazis, and Islamic fundamentalists.

 

 Your anti-capital sentiments are from the left; the anti-capital sentiments of the fundamentalist are from the right (again read Marx and Engels, Communist Manifesto, feudal socialism.)

 

 

 

//www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html

 

I am cutting and pasting the section:

 

 

 

 

1. REACTIONARY SOCIALISM

a. Feudal Socialism

Owing to their historical position, it became the vocation of the aristocracies of France and England to write pamphlets against modern bourgeois society. In the French Revolution of July 1830, and in the English reform agitation, these aristocracies again succumbed to the hateful upstart. Thenceforth, a serious political struggle was altogether out of the question. A literary battle alone remained possible. But even in the domain of literature, the old cries of the restoration period had become impossible. [1]

In order to arouse sympathy, the aristocracy was obliged to lose sight, apparently, of its own interests, and to formulate its indictment against the bourgeoisie in the interest of the exploited working class alone. Thus, the aristocracy took their revenge by singing lampoons on their new masters and whispering in his ears sinister prophesies of coming catastrophe.

In this way arose feudal socialism: half lamentation, half lampoon; half an echo of the past, half menace of the future; at times, by its bitter, witty and incisive criticism, striking the bourgeoisie to the very heart's core, but always ludicrous in its effect, through total incapacity to comprehend the march of modern history.

The aristocracy, in order to rally the people to them, waved the proletarian alms-bag in front for a banner. But the people, so often as it joined them, saw on their hindquarters the old feudal coats of arms, and deserted with loud and irreverent laughter.

One section of the French Legitimists and "Young England" exhibited this spectacle:

In pointing out that their mode of exploitation was different to that of the bourgeoisie, the feudalists forget that they exploited under circumstances and conditions that were quite different and that are now antiquated. In showing that, under their rule, the modern proletariat never existed, they forget that the modern bourgeoisie is the necessary offspring of their own form of society.

For the rest, so little do they conceal the reactionary character of their criticism that their chief accusation against the bourgeois amounts to this: that under the bourgeois regime a class is being developed which is destined to cut up, root and branch, the old order of society.

What they upbraid the bourgeoisie with is not so much that it creates a proletariat as that it creates a _revolutionary_ proletariat.

In political practice, therefore, they join in all corrective measures against the working class; and in ordinary life, despite their high falutin' phrases, they stoop to pick up the golden apples dropped from the tree of industry, and to barter truth, love, and honor, for traffic in wool, beetroot-sugar, and potato spirits. [2]

As the parson has ever gone hand in hand with the landlord, so has clerical socialism with feudal socialism.

Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the state? Has it not preached in the place of these, charity and poverty, celibacy and mortification of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat.