VIEW

G Rahmanian

I don't think you know the meaning of treason, otherwise not many Iranians would be immune from your wrath.

What do you mean? Please define your version of treason for us. The only group so far I have accused of treason was MKO. If you want to debate MKO we should move to another blog. It is a long and well traveled road.

Regarding Palestine I agree it is meant to divert attention.

VPK:

I don't think you know the meaning of treason, otherwise not many Iranians would be immune from your wrath. Metaphors cannot be employed at will without a proper context. This is not about any particular individual or organization, it is about the widespread contradictory statements made by the people who talk of democracy. AND this issue of Palestine vs Israel is just an excuse by some to divert attention from the real problems of Iran. As for Mr. Fenderesky, he is talking about the wasted decades of negotiations and, of course, his taxes.

S5555,

Don't change the subject which is:

Expansion of settlements by the jews on somebody else's (Palestinians) land. 

"The illegal colonization of Palestinian lands is an international crime and a model of institutionalized racism which is without equal any where in the world in that it is so widely ignored and even encouraged by the majority of so-called civilized nations. More importantly, what is largely forgotten in the little discussion there is of illegal settlement activities being practiced by Israel, is that the settlements themselves are racially exclusive. Jews only need apply. Palestinians aren't even allowed to drive on the same roads as the Israelis in the Palestinians' own territory."

Mola Nasradeen

we Iranians are an ancient people too, we get it quicker than you may think

Yep, We Iranians were an ancient people and never practised Islam. The King of the ancient Iranians, Cyrus. demanded the restructuring of the Temple of Soloman in Jerusalem. One day the Jews will just move that Mosque slightly east towards Mecca......and good riddance to it. 

Counselor,

Thank you for your light-hearted parody of Washington’s cowardice and corruption. I wonder however, if influence peddling by the special interest is but one side of the coin. What if what we are witnessing is the manifestation of a strategic alliance between two expansionist powers for whom waging wars of aggression, occupation, exploitation of other peoples, and usurpation of others’ natural resources – a.k.a. Neo-conservatism - is the holy grail of an eternal hegemonic existence?

S5555's Tactic # 5 "The Distraction Technique"

Straight from the training handbook.

Don't change the subject, the subject at hand is "Wiser American Jews are Being Fed Up with Israel". It is their voice that you're trying to shut down with 'Distraction Techique' straight from the training handbook.

According to United Nation Zionism is a discredited racist ideology. "Zionism is the political ideology which promotes the exclusivity of Jews in Israel over any other racial, religious or ethnic group. Zionism, by definition, is racism. Israel, with the full support and funding of the United States, flagrantly violates international law and engages in the systematic ethnic cleansing and oppression of the Palestinian people as well as in the establishment of an apartheid system, not just in the West Bank and Gaza, but in Israel proper." 

P.S. S5555, You can't sell your snake oil to us, don't forget we Iranians are an ancient people too, we get it quicker than you may think.

Mola Nasradeen

You could be right. I would get sick of the whole middlea estern situation too. But what do you think about most Americans oppose a mosque being built on ground zero and a significant amount of Americans do not want a Muslim President or even Muslims to be able to run for Congress:

//www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,201...

Do you think the majority of Americans are fed up with Muslims venting their grievances through terrorist means such as flying airplanes into buildings, trying to blow up time square, blowing up embassies or adbucting their citizens abroad.

You don't see the Jews, Mormons or the Amish doing that, do you? 

American people are fed up with Israel

Who says so?

NYT's Tom Friedman says so, a jew himself. He said recently: "“US support for Israel could shatter like Humpty Dumpty-- and it could get ugly…You are losing the American people who believe me, are fed up with the Mideast in general. But they're also fed up with Israel. When they see their president working hard to try to tee up an opportunity…. And you say 'No, first pay me – let Jonathon Pollard out of jail, have Abu Mazen sing Hatikva in perfect Yiddish, and then we'll think about testing.' It rubs a lot of Americans the wrong way."

American citizens and tax payers are fed up with Israel.

Here we go again.

With the exception of VPK and, to a certain extent, Only Iran, the rest of the commentators on this thread just don't get it. I feel that  I can only  restate the same comments I have made on other Blogs and yet I know nothing that I say will change your position one jot.

The humaitarian argument in support of the Palestinians is fine provided that you look at the conflict objectiviely. The constant reference to Israel as 'Zionists' or the 'Zionist' state reeks of Islamic Republic propaganda at best or blatant anti-semetism at worse. Contrary to popular belief some Israelis and many Jews openly criticise and challenge Israeli policy int he West Bank and Gaza as you do. However, when you question its existence and deny the unequivocal historical and cultural link to Palestine then you are anti-Jewish. Every people have a right to self determination and I find it curious that the UN does not find Kurdish, Armenians and Azari aspitations for self determination racist. If you are a humanitarian you will condemn the loss of life on both sides. If you were a humanitarian you would at least try to empathise (not sympathise) why the perceived aggressor is acting the way it does or  enquire into the reasons why it acts this way. Sadly, the breaking down  of the Israeli conflict as bad Israelis persecuting defenceless Palestinians is too simplistic an explanation.  The collective punishment of Palestinians must be weighed with the terririst bombings, letter bombs, Hezbollah attacks, hijacking, killing of athletes, abductions of citizens, wars, rocket attacks and endless money that Arafat and his cronies syphoned of Iran and every Muslim country but never seems to be able to make peace with Israel or ends up helping the Palestinain refugess that most deserve it. Some how your anger at Israelis for the plight of the Palestinians doesn't extend to the neighbouring Arab countries who refuse to integrate Palestinian refugees into their country or the Egyptians who actually share a border with Gaza and are just as reponsible as the Israelis for making Gaza an 'open prison'. 

As a humanitarian, you will share an interest of other victims of wars, genocide and ethnic cleansing actually closer to Iran's borders ost notably Georgia, Aghanistan and Chechnya by the hands of Russia. Yet none of you call for a boycott of Russia. However, not one of the souls living in these countries cause an impact on your collective conscience or the shame that YOU as an Iranian, are not sickened to the stomach that Manoucher Motaki, Ahamdinejad, Larijani and Khamenei have given unconditional support to the government of Sudan when it is ethnic cleansing hundreds of thousands of Africans. 

So please spare me your fake humanitarian arguments and your crocodile tears. The reason why you are concerned with Palestine over and above evert country comes down to two possible things: Pure anti-semetism from your upbringing 2) the endless exposure to the Palestinian issue after living in the IR for so many years that even if you are opposed to the Islamic Republic you have been conditioned this way. 

If after all that, you were still concerned about Palestinians the minimum that you could do, as Only Iran, suggests is to break ties with Israel and support the Palestainians in a peaceful way. Your obsessive compulsive fanatic addiction to this issue is ultimately what is goint to drive you to a war with Israel.  And all for what, the sake of Palestine who never seems to be able to make peace with Israel and whose people are drafted in the Quds army to shoot at Iranian protesters. There are many eyewitness accounts, including my own relatives in Iran, who have testified to Arab speaking sodiers in riot gear beating and scaring off protesters in the summer of 2009. 

Do your selves a favour: Just be Iranians or seek a good psychiatrist. 

Doctor Mohandes

Great. However I do not link the two. It is very possible that one may happen not the other. Or that we may get partial solutions to them.

IMHO it is far more possible to fix Iran than solve the Palestinian problem.

I wish some body would go Chicago on them

I am wondering what it would take or how long it will be before American people yell out loud "it hurts, getting f*&ked so much", no more!!!!

For American people, this is the case as we say in Farsi (pardon my French)

"ham konesh meediam ham toofesho"

Of course it goes without saying that we did get shafted so much more during the Bush's years but then no one had the balls to say any thing then as we all had to protect our "leader" duing the war time. Not that they have grown those balls just yet.

Mehrdad

VPK

Yes a secularly inclined Gov for iran and a workable and practical peace deal for the palestinians.

from Guive's lips to O=Bambi's Ears ! Go Chicago on 'em !

Obama needs to bring the big guys with baseball bats to his ME community event. He, and the US, will be further weakened if he can't get two highly paid client states to dance the Peace Kabuki.

Doctor Mohandes

I am not pretending not to know. There are a lot of issues brought up by people. I don't like confusion. What is the cause?

• A free secular democratic Iran? That is my main worry.
• A peace deal for Palestine? That is some peoples cause.
• Whatever else.

I with respect asked what you meant. Agha Man elme gheib nadram. If you got something then say is in no uncertain term. We got enough misunderstanding as is.

VPK

Khodeto be Kooche ali chap nazan.

More responses

• Regarding the genie: In general genie try to twist and pervert the wish. This is in all the myths and stories. It has nothing to do with being "Jewish". Therefore the jab at Jews is simply a blatant anti-Jewish remark.
• Regarding "the cause". I don't know what the "cause" is? Doctor Mohandes will you please explain what you mean?
• Regarding apologies to the writer of the blog. I have nothing to apologize for. A blog is for discussion. We are doing just that. We are not sheep to follow the lead of what we are *supposed* to talk about.
• Regarding peace: In fact is has been purchased at times. Not the best way but beats war. Peace is a very volatile and unstable commodity. It must be guarded and renewed. If not ti goes bad and turns into war.
• Regarding Sultan Hussein: It is not up to him to create a Palestinian state. He is welcome to say what he wants. But is has little power.
• Regarding Iran: It is not up to Iran to fix the problem. It lacks the power.

VPK

Not that i really give a Ra... As.. About what you thinlk nor should I, But I am not a Multi-ID poster . So you need to quit withall the paranoia and delusional fomenting of conflict and focus on the job of getting everyone united for the cause. Means: No more making accusations against people when you don't know all the facts. This should be so obvious to someone like you, Yet you create surprises for me at each and every turn on this site.

Do you understand?

Marhoom jan

I do not know what your on bud...

But ... can i get some of what you are on as well?..

good to read you Guive!

Guive, as usual you have not allowed your dislike for IRI (understatement) blind you on what you once termed as "kh*** k***deh Baazi" of west (specially the US) in the region.

Best 

My apology to the author of this article

for my share of derailing it from the subject. I say no more unless it is related to the subject. If some one has an unrelated question from me, it can be asked in a appropriate blog.

Mehrdad

Responses

OnlyIran: Thank you for a reasonable post. I respect your opinion but am not 100 % where you are. To me Iran is not the world policeman. Plus we both know that Israel bashing is IRI's way of ducking responsibility. Therefore while I don't like seeing anyone mistreated I do not want us involved in it. Plus I have yet to see any change in the general Palestinian attitude towards Iranian people. Until I do, I will go with what I know which is their actions in the war.

G. Rahmaninan: MKO still have the very same leadership. I guarantee you that even if some of the lower rank have changes top has not. Rajavis are as bad as they were 30 years ago. Therefore no it is not the same. The MKO committed treason. Palestinians are a nation and not all responsible. Plus they were never Iranian so they are not guilty of treason. Also I agree with OnlyIran over giving amnesty to lower ranking MKO members.

Marhoum Kharmagas: Thank you for brilliantly exposing a multi-ID poster. Well done.

Mehrdarad: I asked you a direct question and you are refusing to answer. Yes this is not Evin and I am not Savak so you don't have to respond. A while ago you asked me a direct question about my position on war. I did not run away. I gave a direct response. You take the "I don't have to answer you" approach. The one response you did give says you oppose any foreign involvement. Great, but that was not my question. So I guess you chose to not respond: fine I get it.

Bavafa:

If Iranians ever establish a democracy, such issues will be taken care of in democratic manners. Let's wait until a democratic government is in place, then worry about how to deal with MKO. In a democracy it's the rule of law that should govern our attitudes towards others not personal feelings. If as you say MKO has betrayed Iranians in general, then it should become the problem of the state and the democratic institutions established by the state. We are talking about an ganization that could easily attract hundreds of thousands of young Iranians to its demonstrations right after the revolution. And I think you would agree that not all "betrayed" Iranians.

Onlyiran:

I do agree that it's to a good extent a problem the regime has created by abusing the Palestinian issue. There are of course other reasons as well. I tend not to get into such debates only because there are too many issues involved. And our biggest concern should be saving Iran from further destruction rather than spouting meaningless slogans with regards to issues that have little bearing on Iranians' struggle for democracy. As someone once said, Palestinians could benefit greatly if there were a democratic government in Iran. We all know what the current government is up to!

First off, many thanks to OnlyIran

Not only for trying to set the record straight in regards to my position, but more importantly for bringing a common sense approach to this none sense here.

I couldn't have said it any better then he has and only add that is very unfortunate that we allow our hate for IRI to cloud our judgment and automatically take any side as long as it is opposite to IRI propaganda machine.

VPK:

I can really add much more then others have already said. I believe I have answered any questions you have asked me, not that I am ever obligated to. Here is a respond to your last set of questions from me just a couple of days ago, and an excerpt from my response specifically about foreign fighters. Just in case If you care to read it when you ask questions.

//iranian.com/main/2010/nov/play-long-game

"Lastly in regards to foreign fighters whether it is in Arab nature (Hezbollah) or White skin (Americans), it make no difference and my position has been clear"

G. Rahmanian:

Even though your question is not directed at me, but if I may share my view (this is with all due respect to every one else)

Yes, I think I can forgive MEK members for betraying Iranians while Iran was under attack by a despicable mad man (not that it would have mattered if Saddam wasn't as despicable).  But only if they realize of their past betrayal and truly change course.  However, the differences are two folds, one that they continue to betray Iranian people and have not had any change of heart, secondly they were Iranians and one would expect more from his country man then a foreign mercenary.

Mehrdad

One additional response G. Rahmanian

Despite of my personal dislike for the MKO, if I was in charge of Iran, I would grant blanket amnesty to all rank and file MKO members (not the Rajavis) as well, and allow them to return to Iran without any consequences if they laid down their arms and didn't engage in militant activity. I think our country needs that to move forward.  Even in Rwanda, the average people who had participated in genocide were forgiven by the victims of their crimes, and by the government, so that there could be national reconciliation.  We need a similar thing in post IRI Iran to move forward.

G. Rahmanian - Good question

No.  They are supposed to be Iranians.  Much more is expected from them than in terms of loyalty to one's country than from a foreign nation.  

I think a better comparison would be Iraq.  We're not holding all Iraqis accountable for what Saddam did, are we?  They're one of our best friends now!  Plus, from an average Iranian's point of view, who do think Iranians dislike more, Iraqis or Palestinians?  Weird, sin't it?

I'm not ignoring or whitewashing the Palestinians' support for Saddam.  I'm just saying that their whole nation should not be accountable for a what a group of them did 30 years ago under a leadership that no longer exists.   

As I said below, I personally think that all this stems from IRI's propaganda and the infusion of the Palestinian issue into their internal politics.  It has had the opposite effect on Iranians.  They now equate the Palestinians with the despised IRI. 

Onlyiran:

Can the same be said about MKO? Just wondering! After all theirs was also more than 30 years ago!

Indeed, these peace talks

Indeed, these peace talks are nothing but sick jokes.  There is no need for another agreement.  Agreements have been signed before by both sides and have been broken by Israel.  All should be done is to hold Israel responsible and make them go back to 1967 agreement. Otherwise, it will be business as usual no matter how many agreements are signed.  US with her support track records of the criminal state of Israel can never be fair toward the Palestinians and a few objections US has sometimes made about the settlements and etc are just part of the game to fool the Arabs and others into believing that US will be fair, but the actions speak louder than words. In fact, if it wasn't for US support, Israeli wouldn't have become as destructive and inhumane as she is today, So how can you expect any good coming out of these meetings for Palestinians?

Joojeh Simorgh Zionist,

Whining and Using Iran to defend Israeli doesn't work, Israel is a criminal state and must be punished.

VPK Jaan

The answers to your questions is yes...sort of.  We don't know if the majority of the Palestinians supported Saddam.  Certainly, their political leaders at the time did, along with a certain numbers of their men who joined the Iraqis on the battlefield.  But first of all that was almost thirty years ago.  Plus, even if it was today, how can we blame their women and children who suffer under an brutal occupation?  We should be the "bigger" people and not be petty in response.

Everything being said--and as I have said many times before--condemning Israel and advocating justice for the Palestinian population should not be at the expense of the Iranian people.  We should put our own people first.  We should condemn the injustice, but we shouldn't go as far as taking our country to the brink of war for the past 31 years with Israel over the Palestinian issue.  A reasonable Iranian government, in my view, would not have diplomatic or trade relations with Israel, condemn it for its conduct, and insist, and assist, the civilian Palestinian population with humanitarian aid and with its struggle for independence through legal means (i.e., the UN, etc.).  But that should be the extent of it. No chanting "death to Israel" every day, claiming that you will march to "Ghods", holding Holocaust conferences, demanding that Israel be wiped off of whatever, supplying weapons to armed militia, etc., ect.  That's the difference. 

Doctor jaan!

"Doctor" says: "Excuse me? Have we met?"

yes, with your other IDs we met many times! With your new ID you met me in the other blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anahid-hojjati/yo...

Pasted here to refresh your memory:

"by Doctor mohandes on Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:43 AM PST

Likes to Vizz Vizz a lot...

Because his name is MAgas... Khar magas.

Yes magas. It is me. I missed you my man. I see that you are back doing your usual thing..."