VIEW

Re: Trita !! are you kidding ?

As I said if you are there to learn. It seems your arrogance and depth of political knowledge have inverse relationship. Trita is an independent political analyst, you on the other hand are regurgitating Bush’s BS.

Trita !! are you kidding ?

Trita Parsi - NIAC !!!? 

I should have known

BTW - the article sucks - it's full of false fundamental assumptions and holes - just about on every point.  The only thing Trita the traitor has going for him is people like you on payroll to spread IRI's propaganda. 

TO MasoudA

And finally Mr. masoudA:

If you are really looking to learn, and care for Iran, look at this article in "Nation" by Trita Parsi (iranian.com has the link too):

//www.thenation.com/doc/20071119/parsi

Before you call for regime change in Iran!

who/what is your alternative to IRI?

Mr. Masoud:

You said:
“Here is what I suggest for after the mullahs are drowned…. “
And … may I ask who is going to supervise that process?
Let me elaborate with a Persian proverb, it says: before you steel a minaret find a hole to hide it. Before you advocate regime change in Iran for any reason you need to have a solid plan and alternative.
I and many others (Iranians, American, …) advocate an evolutionary approach for strengthening democracy in Iran. IRI is not as democratic as many European countries but it is not nearly the monster that you are portraying it. If all these political and economical pressures imposed on Iran by US are eliminated, things will only get better faster (economically and politically- less human rights violation, less excesses etc.). Go visit Iran instead of letting your imagination go wild, wake up Masoud agha gol!

Ok - someguy 3.5

So your answer is Yes - You believe men and women are equal in rights and you believe members of different faiths also must have equal rights in a society.    So how can you support the Islamic Republic ?  It's all about favoring men over women and favoring moslems over non-moslems.    If you consider these insignificant items and you are a moslem man - then I wish for you to see the light soon.  Try Erfan instead of ISlam. 

 But - I now owe an answe to your question.    I do not support any of the groups out there posing as Opposition to the ISlamic Republic - especialy Reza Pahlavi or MKO - since I believe just like IRI, leashes to both of them are held by powers outside Iran.   Here is what I suggest for after the mullahs are drowned.   Form a temporary transitional Parliment in Charge of the 3 sectors of government and the armed forces.   The transition period should be at least 1 year, during which media and press will allow all groups and parties equal and free exposure.   A referandum will be held after at least one year, through which the system of government shall be determined.   From where I'm sitting, Iranians will not endorse leftists or MKO type organizations.  I see serious options to be a federal republic or a constititional monarchy.  

who/what is your alternative to IRI?

Mr. Masooud:

My answer to your question is yes. Now can you answer my question:
Who/what is your alternative to IRI? (tangible one!)
If you don’t have a tangible alternative, you might as well ignore me and not waste your time.
As we agreed the main theme of your article is your call for regime change in Iran. And my question is totally relevant to that.

someguy

"Your article is full of flaws and baseless accusations"

That's the problem right there - you make such comment but you won't get into details and specifics.    You won't because you can't.   That's why I asked you to give it a rest.    but you can't do that either can you ?  you seem like a sore loser - wanting to have the last word.   I will let you have that - if and only if you answer my one question:  Do you believe all humans are equal in rights regardless or gender, race, nationality, and religion ?? 

RE: So I am MKO now?!!

Mr. Masoud,

Don’t get mad, so I was wrong to assume you are an MKE supporter or Monarchist. I stand corrected, at least those guys have some tangible alternatives (albeit terrible ones), you seem to be living in haparoot .
If you think I am wasting your time simply don’t reply, I don’t think anyone in the forum expects the writer to necessarily respond.
You are proposing regime change for Iran and insulting many Iranians in your last paragraph for not agreeing with you, you then get mad at me for trying to make you realize what you are advocating. Your latest responses to me can be well described by
“ghAfieh ke tang Ayad shaer be jafang Ayad”
Your article is full of flaws and baseless accusations.

So I am MKO now ?!!

First of all - dear someguy2, thanx for being cordial - but you seem to have nothing to contribute, nothing worth responding to.   I appreciate it if you did not waste everyone's time anymore - and remember, a big part of debate etiquette is to acknowledge logic you can't argue.   

To those of you labelers !!  try again - MKO and Monarchist is wrong.

Why can't you get it in your thick heads that People of Iran are not limited to the 50,000 MKO members and supporters.  Why can't you understand when people are appreciative of ex Pahlavis, it is just a sign of being appreciative - and not being a Royalist, trying to bring the inept Reza Pahlavi to power ??!!   I am one Iranian who is sick and tired of a government which takes orders from some Lords in England, and at the same time follows directives by Hamas and Hezbolalh goons they have imported from Palestine and Lebanon !!!  I want a democratic Iranian government working for Iran.   Build a democratic foundation, and it does not matter what kind of government (republic, monarchy, socialist, capitalist,.....) is in place.   

Having said that - arguing over the kind of government requires a period of public education and debate - which we must have during a transition period after the mullahs are burried.   Right now we must focus on important issues such as establishing order, cotroling escape of mullahs and their wealth, ..... during the transition period.   As JFK said; Think what you can do for Iran - not what Iran can do for you.   Assume everything in Iran is OK begining tommorrow - have you thought where you fit ?   Are you one of the bacheh bazaris who is thinking about importing more and more into Iran ?   think again - because in the new Iran we will need useful and creative individuals - not dallals and commissioners.   

Midas touch!

Mr. Masoud.
You advocate regime change in Iran. Even if US just does that and transfers the power to you guys (MKEs or the Monarchists), that power will be Midas touch for all of you . You will soon curse yourselves, because you don’t know how to deal with Iranians.
Not only you will curse yourselves for that Midas touch, those who brought you in power (Bushies) will curse you just like they have been cursing likes of Ahmad Chalabi in Iraq. So you guys will be choobe do sAr nejess!
It seems that even the Bushies, and the ultra right in the have learned something in Iraq, and despite their hatred for IRI will very likely not give you guys the “touch”. You very well know that Iran under IRI has been one of the most stable countries in the region and that has helped with constant flow of oil.

In rajavi parasta mesle zan

In rajavi parasta mesle zan ya marde harze hastan ba hame damkhoran o hamkhab......akhe ba saddam ham bale....hala ham ke lisidane amrika....hamoon amperialist 30 saale hgabletoon! ghowl midam hamoon estefadeie ke saddam azatoon kard amrika ham minemayadetoon va mesle ye dastmal estefade shode mirid to recycle bin.... Ajeebe ke hanooz ham sareshoon ta nok pa to lajane vatan foroushie.
Ye negahi be opposition biroon az vatan bekoneed mibinid chera regime hanooz pabarjast.

I bet if we put aside all this selfish ideas, iran would be a nice place to live.
Dast dar dast ham daheem be mehr
Mihan khees ra koneem abad!
We need a leader who believes in Iran for all iranians.

Re: Payandeh Iran

Hey Payandeh, Masoud is very wrong in advocating regime change in Iran but I definitely understand why he is laughing at you. In case you haven’t figured it out, it is not our names that matter but our ideas... Read the thread and you will laugh too. Supposedly laughing adds 8 years to our lives.

Re: Someguy 2

Mr. Masoud:
Now you are giving more slogans and no concrete answers, you don’t have to, let’s leave it at that.

Someguy 2 -

..............."I was telling you that regime change is a bad idea (not in national interest of Iranians or Americans).".......   

Not only is a good idea - but it's a dire need - Iran is rotting from within, sophocating and short of time. 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

.................."Furthermore I asked you what was your alternative to IRI?"...................

How about a democracy ? how about a secular democracy ?  How about sanity order and rule of law ?   How about a system where people are rewarded based on education and merits and not just by growing a beard and pretending..............

Someguy 2 -

This guy "payandeh Iran" is cracking me up.   These people are so used to cheating - they can't handle normalsy anymore !!

someguy = someguy2 = MashoudA

someguy = someguy2 = MashoudA

:-( Khar khodetee.

RE: someguy2

I never said you are contradicting yourself. I was telling you that regime change is a bad idea (not in national interest of Iranians or Americans). Furthermore I asked you what was your alternative to IRI?

Someguy 2

................This is the crucial point at which true Iranians must consider the collective national interests over and above personal gains, and catch the fish of “Freedom, Democracy, and Sanity” from the muddy waters!! ...................

Yes I am promoting a regime change as I think any sane Iranian would - and I think this may be our best opportunity to do it.   

I don't see your point about my last paragraph.   I said:

 ................And finally, to the fools who hold-up “Stay out of Iran ” signs in rallies, while living in San Francisco!!! Do you have a solution? During these crucial times and given the directions the mullahs have taken Iran , there is no bigger crime against the motherland than: Living outside Iran Promoting the Status-Quo.

Can you tell me what part of it you thought contradicts my pressing for a regime change ?  Or did I misunderstand your point ? 

Re: someguy

Mr. Massoud, you said:
“It does however appear that the international community has a pretty good handle on what is actually taking place in Iran , by calling the general population, “hostages” of the mullahs. This is the crucial point at which true Iranians must consider the collective national interests over and above personal gains, and catch the fish of “Freedom, Democracy, and Sanity” from the muddy waters!! “

You are advocating regime change here. You then reinforce it in your last paragraph. This is the crux of your article. If I am wrong you tell me what is the main point of your article?

Someguy

So you did not dare touch any of my issues.   Where do you stand with equality of genders, faiths and races ?  you can't answer that can you ?   Now read your own post - and see who is generalizing and read mine to see who wants to discuss specifics. 

RE: So Finaly !!

You are just generating empty slogans, I have been following the events in Iran very closely and been to Iran. Unlike you I have not looked at the events through a filter, be it IRI filter, MKE filter, …, or FOXNEWS filter. So let’s go to another one of your points, rather slogans about "collective blh blah":

Mr. Masooud, for the past 28 years and especially past 4 years the biggest threat to the Iranian national interest has been many attempts mainly by the US right wing to break up Iran through supporting ethnic/religious conflicts among Iranians, external wars against Iran, and economic pressures.
Despite their shortcoming in other areas, IRI leaders have done a good job of dealing with those attempts. That has been better for both Iranians and Americans otherwise US would now be dealing with even a bigger mess in the Middle East, oil prices would be higher, etc. So what is the reason for your wakeup call to preserve what you call “collective national interests”?

So Finaly !!

I get a debate challenge from "someguy" - who seem to find the best alternative to be unification but under the mullahs.   Now - I ask of you be honest with me - do you think you are worthy of a debate ?  Where do I satrt with you ?  have you been in coma in the last 28 years - do you know anything about Iran.   OK - you probabaly argue you want to align against a bigger enemy - right ?   Buddy - where do you draw the line ?  How about "Human Rights" ?  did you even read my article ?  where do you stand - are men and women, jews, christians and moslems equal in your mind ?  if not - then best wishes, by all means get with the mullahs that is where you belong.   Also - think about a system in which Police, Judge, Jury, and the Criminals work hand in hand - and then think of yourself defending that system.   There is nothing Iranian about what has been going on in Iran over the last 28 years - it's death of morality - and you are cheering for it - and why ??  because you hate the imperialist Bush ?   

Finaly - for those buddies calling me a mossad agent - let me help you a bit.   I am Iranian first and a Yankee second (at least until the time I become a US citizen !!).   I love Jews, just like I love Christians, Bahaiis,......... And as for Isreal, I consider it our best friend in the middle east - in fact along with Egypt I consider them to be the only two countries worthy of our friendship in the middle east.   Now go on and think of a good label. 

holy shit man

wow, look who is your daddy now you F bitch Iranian terrorist trioter,
spaming to us with stupid comment making us laugh.
all that wholy crap.
I bet the do have Iranian.com IPs and our Ip and address and they know every one of us too one by one. dam I love it.

who/what is the alternative?

MassoudA, you want to debate specific issues, I agree with you, let’s start with this one:
“This is the time when we must all stick together for the sake of preserving our national interests.”

Again I agree with you, but I say to that end we must stick together and support the current regime in Iran against Bushies. I believe this is the fastest way that Iran can better itself economically and continue to evolve to a true democracy.
The alternative US installed governments of Monarchist or MKE type will be disaster for Iran (and US). BTW I am not even a Muslim, so don’t respond to me with slogans. I see these alternatives against both US and Iranian national interest.

Terrorist leave Iran, Free Iran, before USA bomb Iran.

Shame on yourself Iranian crazy dictator regime, what you done to our country we are rather to you see Iran getting worse then Iraq or Afghanistan get bombed even we are know some of the our relative back are will die there,
but for that and giant to freedom and to being kill everyone of you at list for Iran country get free from your evil hands,
-- We are more then please and getting party and also we are here signing up so many petitions to white house and also 95% people inside country too are happy to start war and bomb them to end of this terrorist regime.
Iran country is not including any turban head and any block head imported from Arabs countries to murder Iranian and calling them self Iranian, Arab are not Persian, we will free Iran by American army and build our smart new generation with out any Mullahs/Ayatollahs to export them to own country especially Palestine.
All we need start war and we will get power our hand to destroy monster vampire regime abuse every other countries to name of Islam and embracing us in front whole nation.
We are not ever ever support Iran reason it is mean supporting dictator mullah regime.
Iran is not Iraq and is Afghan stupid you get it now! Then wtf are doing to Iran? And damaging that country get out there leave Iran in hand Iranian people not terrorist mullah.
Bring and importing every terrorist to country and selling weapons. Stay from those countries and do not try making fear among us about American, It is work because we are dealing with them every day so whole things your saying are bull crap. So seeing is different saying and your advertising are nothing just lie.
Terrorist leave Iran, Free Iran, before USA bomb Iran.

Why your post moved higher?

Masoud or Mossad;

Why your post moved higher? Is this site going bananas?

Didn't you post the comments under Wisdom yourself? Do you think people are stupid? You posted under your name and changed it to wisdom? and are answering it yourself?

Man, there are sick people who have plenty of time on their hands. Bye, I am out of here.

Payandeh Iran

Stop this non sense

Massound or Mossad stop this non sense. Read other posts before repeating yourself again and again.

Why aren't addressing the $75,000,000 which the U.S. is giving to LA TV stations and organizations such as MPG?

As Mr. Harandi said. . . do not assume people are stupid.

Payandeh Iran.

Dear Wisdom

You are still not debating my points - if and when you re-read my article and argue a specific issue - any specific issue - we will have a civil debate.   And as for stereotyping - as you can see from the responses, I was labeled several times and over - just for suggesting for my hamvatans to wake up and take charge, before there is an attack.   You seem to be a truely concerned and peaceful soul, who probabaly wishes for changes in Iran - but just know that there are many who enjoy living in the west collecting freebee mullah PR money, with no concerns over what takes place inside Iran.    

Wake Up?

Yours truly,

Bagher R. Harandi

"Labeling people and herding

"Labeling people and herding (attacking a poster in a herd like fashion - like posting 5 times in 5 minutes as 5 people) although effective in the Streets of Tehran, it won't work on a debate forum". A "debate forum"? "Labelling people"? I'm not labeling you or anyone else, but why do you stereotype and acccuse anyone who doesn't want Iran to be attacked and another phony war to start based on the wishes of the neocons with all your labels and accusations in your commentary? you're contradicting your own words with your own actions ("labeling people").