I'm as liberal as you can get. I believe in equality, human rights, peace on earth and all that good stuff. I've been absolutely against racism and often tried to expose it in iranian.com. [see one of the early examples in the controversy over the marriage of an Iranian to an African-American.]
But something funny has happened since Obama got elected. I look at African-Americans (and other blacks) differently. When I speak to them, I see their whole face, not just their eyes. I don't have to convince myself that there's nothing to fear or doubt. I don't feel like I am speaking to an "other". I don't see them as victims. I feel better about blacks and it it's not a good feeling, in the sense that now I'm wondering if I was a racist and never wanted to admit it?
I don't know if I was in fact a racist before Obama's election or if I still am. I think if I read what I have written a few times, I will feel embarrassed. But at the same time I know Obama has made me a better person.
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Thank you
by Jahanshah Javid on Fri Nov 21, 2008 02:28 PM PSTThank you all for your thoughful comments. It's a sensitive subject and I'm not sure if we are all honest about prejudice and racism. We haven't even touched how often Iranians disparage Arabs, Jews, Indians and Pakistanis, the Chinese, Koreans ... you catch my drift? This is a big issue.
I want to especially thank "Iranian Reader" for her/his straight talk about liberal guilt and self-doubt :o)
It can be implied from your
by persian westender on Fri Nov 21, 2008 02:00 PM PSTIt can be implied from your blog that racism in particular, and prejudice in general could be masked, but well placed in our unconsciousness. I mean, I may unexpectedly realize that despite of my lifelong and strict liberal beliefs, i may have been a racist in my whole life. I believe having that sensitiveness toward our attitudes and viewpoints is a crucial step in recognizing our weak points and stereotypes, and definitely a sign of maturity. I can assume that with many negative feedbacks that implicit racism can evoke these days, we may find a great deal of justifications and sugarcoating for our gross attitudes (ideology/religion?) or may be suppression as another unconscious solution. But needless to say, almost nobody- even most evil creatures can cry out that they're a racist.
May be the next step in this scenario would be finding the roots of our insecurities toward the subject of the prejudice.
Dear JJ consider...
by Monda on Fri Nov 21, 2008 01:40 PM PSTthat blacks may have felt the same way about you too. Racism is a two way phenomenon, don't you think? This African-American colleague was sharing very similar impression with me the other day; that since Obama's election he has been feeling less intimidating to non-blacks.
I think that to generalize or label is both protective and dangerous tendancy we all need to keep in check. And that goes for you liberals as well :o)
Open to other ideas..Please tell me..
by faryarm on Fri Nov 21, 2008 06:05 PM PSTI apologise if my statement comes across as so "righteous". The point is to simplty draw attention to the existance of such hope and work at hand.
It should be said without any "Taarof" , the fact is there are no definitive answers out there, there is no ideology, either secular or religious that so comprehensively anticpted the challenges of thecoming centuries and so comprehensively and authoritatively addressed, personal, local, national and global issues we face today. You may disagree with it, but please enlighten me if you know otherwise.
Up to now We have tried them all, and they have failed us; from Fascism, Socialism, Communism, to the latest that which seems to be the demise of Capitalism and its glorification of selfishness.
Pleaase do tell of any thing else that has spoken so prophetocally and eloquently about the conditions of the world today....
But it seems you have a lot of reading to do before you answer..
You can ridicule , but realise you simply dont have the information to continue this discussion; and your surprise at my definitive statement proves that you know very little about the subjects or the merits of my statement.
My Belief is not based on blind acceptance; but rather on experience and personal observation of the transformative effect on behavior of people, communities, their passion, devotion and the willingness to sacrifice and suffer for their conviction.
Words are a dime a dozen, but the actions and the faithful ,uncompromising stand of specially the Iranian Bahais upon principle and against persecution, should serve as good example of why I believe in the efficacy and the promise in the Bahai model for the future.
I ask you, what is your ridicule and disbelief based on?
Faryarm
"Because they believe their
by Bahai Mahai (not verified) on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:41 AM PST"Because they believe their VIBRANT beliefs and principles are RELEVANT to every issue and Challenge faced by ALL of us today... unlike the partisanship of party politics or the Dogma and ritual that "religion" as known today offers."
Says who?! Bahais?!! Not that you are not good, okay you ARE good but who else talks about themselves so much?
"Because no one else. whether secular, or religious seems to have an all embracing unifying solution."
NO NONE else?! Good luck buddy! You and the other guy keep singling yourself out as the best there is! I have no doubt, NO DOUBT, that you are FULL of contradictions not only in theory but more importantly in practice!
Thank god I don't believe in what you do, Bahai or mahai or whatever it is that is "so good"!
Bahais "insert" themselves...because...
by faryarm on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:27 AM PSTYou "See Bahais insert themselves in everything",
Because they believe their VIBRANT beliefs and principles are RELEVANT to every issue and Challenge faced by ALL of us today... unlike the partisanship of party politics or the Dogma and ritual that "religion" as known today offers.
You "See Bahais insert themselves in everything",
Because no one else. whether secular, or religious seems to have an all embracing unifying solution.
Faryarm
See Bahais insert themselves
by Bahai mahai (not verified) on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:46 AM PSTSee Bahais insert themselves in everything and all they need is a jump start so they can go rambling on and on. Baba give it up already! How many times you're gonna repeat your sermons over and over again?
It is like you want to unload all your stuff on this website.
Anonymus 77 - racism is a collective insanity...
by alborz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:25 AM PST... and just as JJs comments resonate with many it is possible, just possible, that your off hand rejection is akin to racism.
As I can tell, the references provided by Faryarm, point to the underlying principles that we will sooner or later adopt. There is every indication for this, and yet you seem dismissive, a close relative of racism.
You can go on limit yourself to life's experiences and can be assured that you will not be alone in this approach. Others may choose to compelement the experience of life with guidance gleaned from principles and beliefs which they hold as the only means to enhancing the human condition. The elimination of racism is a step towards this and so Faryarm's commentary is spot on and is not on the "wrong thread".
What you don't get, is again bound by your own personal experience. How limiting is that? No more limiting than the disasterous consequences which we face today, if that is a source of solace for you.
Self examination is the first step and the not the last.
Alborz
Hate to Break it to you...Anon..
by faryarm on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:20 AM PSTAnon77 wrote:"Bahai's are not a race. It's a creed."
Who said Bahais are a Race..?? They represent 6 million people of every race, religion and nationality...you obviously are either a hermit or with all respect a lazy hermit, one that does not like to read to engage in the heart of the matter.
"And I have every right to abhorr all hocus pocus in the 21st century, whatever the pink spaghetti monster in the pie in the sky happens to be. Absolutely no respect for collective insanities."
What hocus pocus.. there is nothing hocus pocus about the only positive and all embracing and hopeful vision to end war and strife ; to empower hope , and that is what it is coming true in the world today..
"You see, people are born into creeds, but can change that through thinking and choice. People can't change their skin pigments."
Skin Colour has nothing to do with it... , I agree with you ,its all about experience ,education , opportunity and a sense of justice.
Respectfully, Anon 77 Your mind needs new threads to appreciate the depth of what is discussed..which has everything to do with a hopeful vision and a road map for peaceful Global coexistence and nothing to do with a roaming "pink spaghetti monster" or hocus pocus.
You seem to mistake superstition and religious dogma or what you call "collective insanities" for Bahai principles. Any fair and well informed opinion would disagree with you.
Finally, If Bahai belief is a "creed" and you can not agree with the belief in the need for peaceful coexistance,then don't.
All you have to do is to compare the history of the last 160 years and compare the events and outcomes with Baha'u'llah's vision and prophecies, starting with his letters to the Kings, rulers and religious leaders of His time.
For That you don't need to believe in any"Creed". Its History vs Facts.
Faryarm
To Faryam. 'Hate to break it to you, but
by Anonymous77 (not verified) on Fri Nov 21, 2008 05:03 AM PSTBahai's are not a race. It's a creed.
And I have every right to abhorr all hocus pocus in the 21st century, whatever the pink spaghetti monster in the pie in the sky happens to be. Absolutely no respect for collective insanities.
You see, people are born into creeds, but can change that through thinking and choice. People can't change their skin pigments.
You are on the wrong thread.
The Vision of Race Unity: America's Most Challenging Issue
by faryarm on Thu Nov 20, 2008 09:46 PM PSTIn appreciation of Jahanshah’s sentiments, I like to quote the following, written in 1936 which i find to be Prophetic and stunningly accurate and relevant to the kind of challenges Obama is with no doubt aware of and will have to face in the coming years.
“As we view the world around us, we are compelled to observe the manifold evidences of that universal fermentation which, in every continent of the globe and in every department of human life, be it religious, social, economic or political, is purging and reshaping humanity in anticipation of the Day when the wholeness of the human race will have been recognized and its unity established. A twofold process, however, can be distinguished, each tending, in its own way and with an accelerated momentum, to bring to a climax the forces that are transforming the face of our planet. The first is essentially an integrating process, while the second is fundamentally disruptive. The former, as it steadily evolves, unfolds a System which may well serve as a pattern for that world polity towards which a strangely-disordered world is continually advancing; while the latter, as its disintegrating influence deepens, tends to tear down, with increasing violence, the antiquated barriers that seek to block humanity’s progress towards its destined goal. The constructive process stands associated with the nascent Faith of Bahá’u’lláh, and is the harbinger of the New World Order that Faith must erelong establish. The destructive forces that characterize the other should be identified with a civilization that has refused to answer to the expectation of a new age, and is consequently falling into chaos and decline.
“The Call of God,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has written, “when raised, breathed a new life into the body of mankind, and infused a new spirit into the whole creation. It is for this reason that the world hath been moved to its depths, and the hearts and consciences of men been quickened. Erelong the evidences of this regeneration will be revealed, and the fast asleep will be awakened.”
Full Text: //reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-41.html
Regarding Prejudice and Racism in America:
....."Having gone through the stages of infancy and turbulent adolescence, humanity is now approaching maturity, a stage that will witness "the reconstruction and demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life." In no other country is the promise of organic unity more immediately demonstrable than in the United States because this country is a microcosm of the diverse populations of the earth. Yet this promise remains largely unrealized even here because of the endemic racism that, like a cancer, is corroding the vitals of the nation."
see full text.
//www.bahai.us/racism-in-america
The above excerpts were written by Shoghi Effendi , Grear Grandson of Baha’u’llah in 1936 based on the prophetic writings of Baha’u’llah.
In Iran, 160 years ago ,the Call for Oneness and Unity fell on deaf ears, when Baha'u'llah first spoke of so many of the issues that trouble mankind and society today; amongst them Prejudice and Racism.
As an Iranian and a Bahai, There is a profound sense of pride, in the realisation that Iran in the Nineteenth Century, thousands of years after Zoroaster,once again gave birth to a new Revelation, that provides the Divine Prescription and the Spiritual remedy for a world that is tottering on the brink of collapse.
Faryarm
Iranians are prejudice
by Farahmand (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 09:45 PM PSTwhether we like it or not, we are prejudice. Specially those who are still living in the laa laa land of Persia and their alphabet is still Mikhi.
Your problem is not that you're racist.
by Iranian Reader on Thu Nov 20, 2008 08:16 PM PSTIt's that you're a liberal. And the problem with liberal people is that they have fallen victim to a great deal of guilt and self-doubt. Liberals have been taught to constantly harass themselves: Am I racist? Am I anti-semitic? Am I sexist/homophobic/ageist (and it gets more and more ridiculous by the minute). All those labels are bullshit for any decent human being. Either you have love and respect for living things or you don't. If you do -- and you know if you do -- cut that self-doubt crap. It's a damn good thing you got out of the Bay Area. Maybe that will radicalize you. Talk to some hard core Latin American intellectuals while you're in Mexico. They'll set you straight.
I think what the election of Obama has done is that it has made white people more comfortable with black people. They are always so phony around black people, always trying to prove that they are cool and unracist.
Look man, you used to have a radical streak in you. Nourish that edge. No need for liberal snivelling. Either you love Duke Ellington and Miles Davis or you don't. Either you die for Richard Pryor or you don't. Either you have experienced black people as a breath of fresh air in America or you haven't. If you do, do, and have, you're not racist. Don't come back to the US until you cure yourself of the white equivalent of bourgeois guilt.
racism (from Websters)
by Anonymous77 (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 06:40 PM PST–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
We observe the world through our filters
by somebody (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 05:28 PM PSTWhat happened to you?
You just evolved, that is how you explained what happened to you.
I am not racist either,but
by Anonymous erooni (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 04:53 PM PSTI am not racist either,but when I see African Americans who want to stay drunk and be doped up all the time,I think of them differently and When I see that majority of the crimes is committed by African Americans I try to keep my distance from them,unless I know them for a long time.Even then I treat them as an individual not as a group.There are good and bad in every race.So I try not to say a particular group or race is bad or good.
Blacks were great before obama
by shirazie (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 02:45 PM PSTI went to college in deep south . Fresh off the boat I was placed in a all blacks and "others" dorm in 1974.
It was very interesting that I was immediately accepted as their fellow even though I did not speak much English. I met their families in rural Georgia and was welcomed with open arms. I have two Iranian Friends who married Blacks.
I guess I accepted Black more readily since I grow up in southern Iran were lots of us are dark / bandary
Here are the things I learned about black history
1. James town Virginia was settled by one white ship and two black (slave) ships.. Plymouth Rock is a non sense
2. traffic light was invented by black man so was peanut farming, first polymer (modern plastics) etc. etc. etc.
USA was built on the back of the blacks. No surprise that it will be pull out of this mess by a black man.
The biggest crime on blacks were slavery and Hollywood image makers of violent blacks
Obama 's unique story
by kashanid (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 02:04 PM PSTIndeed Obama's election has changed America and the whole world.
Once again the whole world is looking at America as the land of opportunity and where people get what they desire and work for.
In America ,for the first time in this country's history black children have a role model who is not a football or basketball player. He is an educated person who also is a family man with no mistresses or history of questionable behavior.
For white Americans he is half white and half black and being raised by a white mother and grandparents they had an easier time to accept him.
For Obama himself the historical fear and hate towards whites never existed to begin with. That made him the best black man with no animosities towards races.
I am very happy for blacks ,whites, and all other majority or minorities in America ; they showed the world that this country is still the hope of the rest of the world.
Azarin jan
by IRANdokht on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:05 PM PSTThat was a deep, intelligent and very interesting view.
You're right, we've all changed!
Personally I thought it'd be "impossible" to vote republicans out! Obama being black was just an added bonus LOL
IRANdokht
You're not alone...
by Azarin Sadegh on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:15 AM PSTHave you read Caligula by Camus?
Caligula has an existential problem. He is in pain because he wants to have the impossible – the moon. He says: “Things as they are, in my opinion, are far from satisfactory…this world of ours, this scheme of things as they call it, is quite intolerable…I want the moon, or happiness.. something, in fact, that may sound crazy, but which is not of this world…”
Martin Luther King Jr.’s speech has also this same element of impossible. He has a dream, but deep down like Caligula he believes it’s just a dream. An impossible dream.
Most of us – like MLK and like Caligula - considered the possibility of a black man becoming the president of the United States in our life time as being impossible.
Now imagine if Caligula had witnessed Armestrong walking on the moon, what would have happened? Or what if MLK were alive today? I’m sure they would have changed. All their pain would have vanished and the randomness of the world would have been replaced with order and logic. So they could finally believe in the real possibility of happiness.
No wonder you’ve changed. You're not alone. We all have changed.
Now I guess the impossible needs to redefine itself!
Cheers, Azarin
People are people
by Kaveh Nouraee on Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:35 AM PSTBefore or after the election, it shouldn't really make a differerence.
Measure people by their character, and their integrity. The Dave Chappelle clip Majid posted relays that message very effectively.
shallow and trivial
by behmanchea on Thu Nov 20, 2008 06:38 AM PSTYou are Fake and terivial to only discuss trivial issues and not real issues. see
Try to understand
//iranian.com/main/blog/behmanchea/farrakhan-jews-slave-trade
True
by samsam1111 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 05:36 AM PSTRegardless of his views , his mere presidency is an opportunity for dialogue among the nation . It,s now up to his team to be wise and use this opportunity to unite than alienate . He should also elevate the role of unfairly minimized Black women in America since they are the real doubly discriminated group via gender & race . Finally , Putting too much emphasis on his race by friends and fans might do the opposite of his message . Remember that Obama was wise to downplay the race issue in election . focusing on the man and his deeds will ultimately make the race topic irrelevent in the future for groups of folks with racial prejudice . It,s time for all folks to start looking at him not as an black president (as fans or foes) but as a president . What matters is his message for good or bad, not his race.
I did my best to translate
by kofri (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 03:17 AM PSTI did my best to translate what Obama said in his acceptance speech for my dad. He just mentioned it's great but just a turn of A page in American history. This is not a closure, it is just a proof that King's dream could be a reality, that one day one of his children is not going to be judged by color of his skin but by his character. Among those 57 million that didn't vote for him I bet half didn't want him just because of his skin color. He reminded me that I and other Iranian-American should have this mission to help to stop this almost 400 years of cruelty, injustice and prejudice. I keep thinking may be that's why we'e here. He told me yedet shabe akhar barat faal gereftam o amad:
ma bedin rah na pay heshmat o jah amadeeam az bade hadeseh in ja be panah amadeeem
hala panah ro gerefteed vaght vaght kari kardan ast.
JJ, thanks for sharing your feeling. man salhast ba madaram bahs daram ke chera migin arab soosmar khor!!! dar javab ham migan hastan digeh!!!
JJ, you are an "Iranian Racist"
by Palin for President (not verified) on Thu Nov 20, 2008 02:39 AM PSTWhen you say: "I'm as liberal as you can get. I believe in equality, human rights, peace on earth and all that good stuff." These are precisely the words that can be said by Khatami, or Ahmadinejad for that matter. But would they approve of their daughter marry a Senegalese? Or if their son brings in a bride from Bagaladesh? Would you have approved of such partnership for your daughter? I know what you are going to say: Affairs of my daughter are her own business and I can't decide for her and all the usual liberal speil.
But, my dear JJ, with all your liberal pretensions, you and all those who carry an Iranian gene (a racist concept itself!) are "Iranian Racists". Iranian racism is a benign type of racism that lacks the vile and vicious undertones of the western racism but it is racism nonetheless. In racism, Iranian style, we all agree that all people must be treated and viewed equally, blacks are nice people, hard working, who have been handed a bad deal for centuries but deserve to be treated much better (in a condescending way) or Indians, Afghanis, and Pakistani are all human beings who must be respected and treated well (but secretly we think they are less cultured than Iranian (or Persians if you prefer) and are certainly not as clean and hygenic as we are (they don't wash their asses three times a day)).
In racism, Iranian style all the people in the world have equall rights until one of them who is darker than us or smells differently knocks on our own door and wants to join our family!!
Put it simply Blacks are GREAT but let them be enjoyed by others.
Don't you see some Iranian racism in you JJ?
Funny I have had the same thoughts lately
by Darius Kadivar on Thu Nov 20, 2008 01:36 AM PSTThats very true. I was also in the subway in Paris the otherday just after Obama's election and the funny thing was that they were airing Boney M followed by Isaac Hayes in between announcements. I got to see alot of black people mingling with Whites and it had such a good cosmopolitan feeling.
Much more interesting was that I felt that people were no more indifferent to black or coloured people. Often indifference is even more annoying than fear. Indifference is a way of protecting yourself but it is often seen as an arrogance towards those who are targeted as if they did not even exist. Now people look into eachothers faces and it is really something to rejoice about. We had alot of problems in France a few years ago in the subways where there were riots and cars were burnt and street fights had created a climate of fear.
Since then the right wing government of Nicholas Sarkozy who was partially responsible for the riots due to some clumsy comments had named three ministers in major sectors who were respectively: Black Ramayad as Aid to the Foreign Secretary, morrocan Rachida Dati in Justice and another women I forgot her name in charge of a major ministery.
It has totally made the French much less paranoiac about immigration issues and certainly the election of Obama has enforced this tolerant feeling in France and Europe in general. Seeing an intelligent and handsom Black man in the highest office has truly created a positive role model for all visible minorities which is an encouraging sign all the more that one is no more forced to look at them indifferently or with pity but like anyone else that is a human being.
I think just for that Obama's victory is certainly a major step forward for everyone.
BRAVO !
Sense of victory, Pride and HOPE
by berkeleygirl (not verified) on Wed Nov 19, 2008 09:12 PM PSTIn fact I was thinking of Maryam Ovissi all along the election period.
I sort of feel like I live in another country!!
I work in a community clinic in Berkeley and I exchange thoughts with my African-American patients and coworkers; and it is intersting that there is a sense of victory and pride and ( not to sound) cliche but really HOPE.I think it is a beginning of something great for America.
We have all changed
by فرامرز (not verified) on Wed Nov 19, 2008 06:59 PM PSTBefore Obama there was Tehran, the African-American son of an Iranian dad. What a cool guy.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=b31ub3SbL5c
Better future in the horizon
by Tahirih on Wed Nov 19, 2008 06:56 PM PST" accomplishment of unity between the colored and white will be an assurance of the world’s peace" .
Very honest. I don't think you were racist though
by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on Wed Nov 19, 2008 06:54 PM PSTBased on what you write, I think you might have had some prejudices, but you don't seem like a racist guy. Racist seems so strong! I can't imagine JJ is a racist, or a closet one. But with iranians, it's harder for us to know. We're so in the middle of things and we do tend to lean toward the paler side of our "race".
MAJID: i think I spotted Joe the Plumber in that video.