Capt Ayhab

HHH

If you read the prior comments there are links and references that provides all the information you need. You might have to go to previous page to get them.

Most of the data has been acquired from Biography of Dr. Fatemi as, presumably told by his sister who was present at the time of arrest and stabbing.

you note[We Iranians talk like Ahmadinejad, as if we're Aristotle, a
supermasterextraordinary source of top-secret information.]

You might talk as Ahmadinejad, but I do not. If you care to either do a bit of research, or simply scroll down to the comments from the start, you will see all the proof.

-YT 

Just Wondering....

Sha'aban Jafari was without a doubt, as you say, a "Laat" or a thug, but how do you know in such graphic detail how he stabbed Dr. Fatemi while Savakis tied his hands?

Were you there in that room personally? or you heard from someone who heard from another, then added some spice, then told another and another............and another?

We Iranians talk like Ahmadinejad, as if we're Aristotle, a supermasterextraordinary source of top-secret information.

In America it's called being "Full of sh..t" or "Full of hot air"!

Let us just express our opinions based on documented facts and not based on 57 year old gossips.

Personaly I think monarchy is stupid, to forcefully plant a king's oldest son as the next leader even if he turned out a jackass. But on the other hand I believe Reza Pahlavi would make a very decent president for the future regime of Iran. 

are you not being too harsh on the Prince?

Just saying!

-YT 

Reza Pahlavi "Don't judge me b/c of daddy!"

But give me eligibility to be on TV, write books, and live moft based on my daddy. What a loser.

Dear CAPT

Are you suggesting your father like yourself was a victim of Shaban BB!?

Please explain!

like father like son?

.

-YT 

I meant empathize with RP not with MRP

With respect Captain. empathize and as you put it "cheshm-pooshi" are not the same. I only meant to see it from RP's point of view and don't expect him to condemn his father as opposed to the breaches of HR that happened under him.

FR

Ms. Rusta

For centuries we as a nation have empathized[cheshm poshi kardeem],

[Well] , we said to ourselves, It is not HIM, it is people who surround him that are bad and corrupt[Plausible denialability they call it in western politics], and just look were it took us...............!

So as long as we as citizens who have to bear the consequences of the leader that we EMPATHIZE with, we shall never see the day light of happiness and true democracy.

-YT 

Please try to empathize

Reza Pahlavi is on record to have acknowledged breaches of human rights durng the reign of his father (I clearly remember he did it in one of his many interviews or Qs and As but can't recall exactly which one). But to be fair, he has kept a dignified silence on this issue which clearly shows his tacit disapproval of some of the excesses that occurred in that era. He has never said or suggested anything that could be taken as supportive of those breaches. Is this not enough? 

How many sons can you name who have condemned their fathers for what they may have allegedly done? Aren't we as advocates of democracy and human rights supposed to uphold ensure that one goes through the "due processes" before one is charged with a crime. Both Shah and Khomeini are dead and too late to go through the due process yet they are both condemned for the crimes that took place while they were alive. How would you differentiate in apportioning the blame for the violation of human rights that took place under these two men?

FR

I need you to know one thing

I hold great deal of respect for the generals and even Hoveyda who stayed behind and took the brunt of the bloodshed by Khalkhali and his mercenaries.

The generals as honorable soldiers they were, stayed loyal to their country and commander in chief[Shah]. This view of mine is crystal clear in most every comment that I have left in various blog regarding Shah and aftermath of the 1979 Akhund Mutiny.

-YT 

Exception noted about SAVAK and their commanders.

On What Grounds ? ...

Yours Or Hers ?

BOOK: EVEN AFTER ALL THIS TIME By Afschineh Latifi ( A Memoir )

You Got YOUR Justice 30 Years ago based on Arbitrary Trials including after Khomeiny declared General Amnesty for all former people linked to the Imperial Regime ...

Nassiris Trial (after having been beaten up):

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6w4KIXcCMg&feature=related

Khalkhali and drug addicts accused of being smugglers :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKf-ZVqnSU

Reza Pahlavi accountable ? no, but should he condemn?

No one should be accountable for deeds of someone else. That includes Reza Pahlavi.

But as his platform is human rights and democracy, do you not think that he should at least condemn the deeds of his father along side Islamic Hokomat, and any other human rights violations in the world?

I am not a monarchist, but I would personally respect him many times more if he did come out and sincerely condemned human rights violation during his fathers reign.

-YT 

Déjà vu ?

Seems like somebody is having a Déjà vu and speaking of personal experience!

Glad that this  humble write up brought back somebody's sweet childhood memories with this BB. ;-)

-YT 

FYI/ DrFatemi's Own Son Shaheen Supports Reza Pahlavi and CPI...

Dr. Shaheen Fatemi son of the late Hossein Fatemi is good friends with Dariush Homayoun of the CPI ( Constitutional Party of Iran) known as the Jebheyeh Mashrooteh and is the editor of Iranvahajan.net:

//www.parstimes.com/gallery/shahin_fatemi/

As for Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi he paid tribute to Dr. Mossadegh as a patriot regularly including in Public back in the 1990's. So I really don't see why people keep asking him to be accountable or make excuses when he has offered an Olive Branch which has been accepted by Most prominent Mossadeghis to date including those in the National Front who joined Ranks with Khomeiny back in 79 for instance Amir Abbas Entezam:

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Amir Abbas Entezam Chained to Hospital Bed (1990's)

And who Reza PAhlavi called for his liberation including in his last speach in Bonn which you also criticized blindly ...

In addition RP has simply taken the mantle where Shahpour Bakhtiar ( who worked hand in hand with the Crown Prince until his assassination by the IRI death Squads) left it:

Shapour Bakhtiar on REGIME CHANGE  and the Anniversary of the Constitutional Revolution (1989) :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNBFTWXz5_Q

Reza Pahlavi on the anniversary of the Constitutional Revolution (2009):

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFjjjGwEDkQ

So Truly I don't understand why Reza Pahlavi has to be the target of your wrath and systematic critics ? ...

Unless of course it is a personal issue in which case I am afraid we cannot do anything about it but simply observe your trigger happy behavior whenever his name is mentioned and your wikipedia knowledge and NIAC Feedbacks to sustain that anger to this day ...

While overlooking the likes of opportunists like Hamid Dabashi ( who never opposed the Islamic Republic until the coming to scene  of the so called Green Movement for which he has become the self proclaimed spokesperson) Press TV Host George Galloway or Hillary and Flynt Leverette's hypocrisy ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJw7bGr6qvA

I am convinced that were Dr. Mossadegh alive today he would wholeheartingly Support Crown Prince Reza given how this regime has turned Iranian Nationalism Upside Down like here :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=h22gVDnW0dI&feature=player_embedded

It seems to me that IRI Apologists as  well as those who continue to find excuses for them after 30 years don't merely Suffer from Alzheimers but Rather a Severe case of Dementia ...

Bio of Shaheen Fatemi :

He isis currently serves as the Dean of the Graduate School of Business as well as the Chair of International Business Administration at The American University of Paris. Prior to coming to AUP, he Chaired the Department of Economics at the University of Akron in the United States. His other recent activities include Editorship of www.iranvajahan.net, a daily news website about the Middle East and Iran in particular. He has also served as a consultant on strategic planning in higher education at UNESCO and has coordinated a project for teaching economics on the Internet sponsored by UNESCO.

Recommended Watching:

HISTORY FORUM: Shahin Fatemi on Iran's 100 Year Struggle for Democracy

Shaban Jaffari ( the beemokh aka as BB) !

The rumor had it that Khoda Beyamorz Shaban Jaffari was also a bacheh baaz (BB)! His favorites were bacheh akhoonds, bacheh kommonists, and bacheh mojaheds. I wonder if some of his victims are related to the commies and hezdollahies who spew so much hate and resentment toward this guy on this site.

Shazdeh Parastan? (to Ayhab)

Ayhab jaan, it is not out of beevafaai but because of work that I comment less, specially in your blogs. As you know I also like to tease/annoy our Shahi friends/enemies, but in reality I think we should not be so harsh with them. Let me jump to an example, compare the Shahi Ardeshir Zahedi (with all the baggage) to Makhmalbaaf, I consider Zahedi much more of a decent man and patriot than Makhmalbaaf. Don't you? ....... Zahedi thinks very differently from us but at least he has some principles and has not sold them. Makhmalbaaf sold his as fast as he could. As we say 'ghorbaagheh aab giresh naimedess va ella shenaageri khobiess'!

DK Jan

Excellent write up, much appreciated.

I think both the late Shah and Mosaddeq miscalculated the political under currents, particularly the influences of the Akhunds. Had Shah only given up part of his power to Majles and Prime Minister I doubt that were in the clutches of Islamic Regime now, and more than likely Iran would have been a prosperous constitutional monarchy right now. Much like England. Shah could have kept the control of armed forces as commander in chief[he was a good strategist and soldier in my opinion, and left the governance of the country to Prime Minister, cabinet and Majles

That is at least what I think.

-YT 

Shazdeh Jan

//www.mohammadmossadegh.com/biography/childho...

Excerpts:

Childhood memories of Ebtahim Norouzi, MD

Kashani had a long rivalry for the spotlight with Mossadegh. He had previously given his tacit support to Mossadegh, but broke with him when Mossadegh refused to curry favor as Kashani demanded for his sons and cronies. The gathered crowd insisted that Mossadegh prevent the Shah’s departure, based on the rumor that it was he who was forcing the monarch out of the country. It was due to Mossadegh’s alertness and quick action that he left the scene unharmed. After Mossadegh’s safe departure, the Shah reportedly was told that “the bird flew the coop”. 

End Excerpts

-YT 

شازده جان

شازده جان

حرف شما کاملا صحت داره. یکی‌ از دلایلی که آیت‌الله کاشانی پشت به مصدق
کرد، علی‌رغم پشتیبانی‌ قبلیش از مصدق این بود که دکتر مصدق به فشار
کاشانی برای انتخاب کردن فامیلش و دوستانش در کابینه دولتی تمایلی نشان
نداد.

سپاس از قلمت

-YT 

Coup or Counter Coup ? (bbc)

This is a Legitimate Question, given that Mossadegh was Prime Minister and the Shah according the the Iranian Constitution was Head of State. In addition the Shah Reigned and did not rule for 12 years as a perfect constitutional King like in Europe prior to the so called Coup. One can claim he was not a democrat by heart but he did not choose to become king but was born into Royalty unlike his father who took power by Force by toppling the former Qajar Monarch. When the Prime Minister decided by political manoevers to kick out the Monarch ( head of State) what gives him that legitimity ? Imagine if Margaret Thatcher would have demanded the departure of the Queen of England because of her own Popularity in the Polls ... 

That the Shah could have siezed the pretext to endorse Mossadegh's toppling once it was achieved seems not only logical but Legitimate if one accepts that the constitution of the Land acknowledged the King Full Power ( as opposed to a truly Constitutional Monarchy). No one is saying it was a good thing to do but that it was His Constitutional Right under that given Constitution !

Mossadegh as a good and knowledgable Lawyer should have known better before jeapordizing his own position. This truly remains an enigma to me why he failed to understand Political mechanisms of Iran before taking such an uncalculated initiative ...

Otherwise one can also argue that Khomeiny's Revolution was a result of a Coup thanks to the support of Western Powers and their leaders such as France's Giscard, USA's Jimmy Carter and Germany's Helmut Schmidt after the Guadeloup Conference where they decided to abandon the Shah to his sad and lonely fate.

BBC Persian coverage on the CIA Coup (Counter Coup?) of 1953 with historian Mashallah Adjoudani and former Imperial Iran's Ambassador to the UK Parviz Radji:

NOTE: Parviz Radji (who has been a harsh critic of the Shah's last years of reign in his 1983 autobiography In the Service of the Peacock Throne, particularly for abandoning Hoveyda to his sad fate) say's the Shah had NOTHING to do with the Coup. See : Ex Ambassador Parviz Radji interview by Cyrus KADIVAR)

کاپیتان جان: البته شما عالم تر از بنده هستید، ولی‌

پشت سر مرده حرف زدن معصیت داره!  آقا شعبون و گروه اوباش ایشون، مرید آیت تفلا کاشانی بودند، و به اشاره ایشون کودتا چی‌ شدند.

Farah Jan

I do appreciate you greatly and could not agree more with your last sentence where you said[war is between us and IR]

Due respect but sensitivity of monarchist is their lightheartedness problem and non of my concern.  I could not care less about how sensitive some folks are toward their idol while we are losing brave young women and men by 100 each hellish day in Iran.

If they can not handle a citizens demand for clarification of platform of their wishy washy prince, sorry to say this but... tough luck children, get used to it and deal with it.

When Iran overcomes this dreaded Islamic  tyranny, SHE will not remarry  to  the old and previous husband called monarchy, be it in coat suite and ties or any other form of attire.......... mark my words.

Hugs........ ba ejazeh albateh

-YT 

Marge

Do I have to send the Amber Alret again???????????????

-YT 

Thanks Captain

Didn't I say that you are a rational person? You proved me right. I the only issue here is that some of my monarchist friends are too sensitive to your usage of certain words in describing members of the Pahlavi dynasty. Personally I used to be sensitive but I have come to realize that may win a battle by shouting abuse at each other but we will lose the war in the long run.And come to think of it the real war is not between Mosaddeq and the Shah. It is between us and the Islamic regime.

Thanks again for your civil conduct and may I use this opportunity and once again apologize fro any of my past misconduct.

Best,

FR

Farah Jan

I am well aware of your strong back ground in respect to our recent past history. As a matter of fact I have to admit that I did not know about Dr. Fatemi's stabbing by Sha'aban Jafari and the gang till I came across  his biography and various references that I saw in various blogs.

As to majority of Monarchist supporters in this site I seriously doubt that I have been the first person propagating and initialing the attack, particularly since ban on my account was lifted. If you care to see, just click on various blogs of mine and see for yourself.

In my book, I hold few principles very dear and without any exception. those principle are Human rights , freedom of expression[embedded in it freedom of speech] and freedom of choice. When you look around yourself in news media, particularly since the debate on HCR started, you will see the very essence of this freedom of speech being exercised by citizens, even often to the point of hatred[which I condemn] toward governing body, in particular Mr. Obama. That to me is the inalienable right of a citizens to be able criticize, question and demand for answers from their elected officials. No hold bars.

However this does not apply to debate between citizens of different polarity. When debating the issues certain norms of civility and mannerism must be observed in order to preserve the spirit of dialogue. Otherwise it will turn to a shouting match and name calling as it has been rather norm here on IC.

NOW..........

My main propose of this particular thread is to stress on the point above, being.......... OK people, do not hate me[noie] for not believing in what you believe in? Do not accuse me[noie] or any other soul here  promptly  of being an IR agent form simple fact of NOT being a monarchist or the other way around. Unity and cohesion comes from civil and constructive dialogue and not from attempts to silence the voices, as IR doing , and not from engaging in hateful and name calling waste of time called [commenting].

I never claim be know everything, because simply  I do not know everything, nobody does, but how are you[Noie ] are going to teach me [noie] that you are better by constantly ridiculing your opponent and calling them all sorts of name?

As I wrote to Mrs. vildemose, this mentality of Sha'aban Jafari still exists in us even many people who might even be borne abroad but of Iranian linage. So as long as we deny it and rationalize  it, we will remain as far apart from one another as we are today................

They have divided us and are happily ruling us. :(

-YT 

P/S As to civility of your person[despite our initial Yahya thingy], I merely stated the fact and it was not meant to be a compliment, but you are quite welcome dear. :-)

Dear Captain

First of all thank you for considering me and Mr Kadivar as civilized monarchists. May I say that in fairness to the other monarchists on this site, I am sure if they are not provoked they too are capable of offering sensible arguments but perhaps my tolerance for taking attacks and abuse is more than normal, otherwise there is a potential for a civil conduct in all of us.

The reason that I asked you those five questions was not that I did not know the answers. As a matter of fact I know the answer to all of them. But I was curious to know if your sources were to add anything new to my knowledge and with due respect I must admit that I was not satisfied. The links that you have provided ranged from a "personal" opinion of a commenter, to a subjective pro-Mosaddeq site, to the poorly researched and non-scholarly work of a publicity seeking journalist called Stephen Kinzer which nowadays is followed like a Bible by the Mosaddeqists.   

The troubling truth is that majority of us are unwilling to revisit the past and examine the evidence and events in an objective and non biased fashion.

You, I am glad to say that once confronted with a rational argument, are prepared to accept the logical reasoning (as in the case of date of Savak being founded and the uncertainty of if Sha'ban had personally stabbed Fatemi). But the rest of my questions remain unanswered. So I shall try to answer them here:

Shaban Jafari was a follower of Aytollah Kashani. He acted on his orders for as long as he was alive. During the first round of Mosaddeq's premiership when Kashani and Mosaddeq were partners and allies, Sha'ban would beat up the opponents of Mosaddeq as they were opponents of Kashani as well. Later when Mosaddeq and Kashani fell out, Sha'ban remained loyal to Kashani and sided with him (who favored preservation of monarchy).

Mosaddeq's appointment as prime minister was no different than his predecessors except that he was reappointed after a short interval when Ghavam was appointed as PM but due to Mosaddeq's alliance with Kashani and the powerful religious support base that he had enjoyed he was reinstalled as prime minister. Once that religious support base was withdrawn he had no significant support base as was proven by the lack of support for him, and defiance by the very people for whom he was supposed to have nationalized the oil, in the aftermath of his removal from power in 1953.

Please tell me which part of the above argument you object to. 

FR

Same mentality

Same mentality drives ANY extremist group all around the globe. Even US is not an exception.

It is the extremism that closes the door to civil debate of issues and opens the gates of hate.

-YT 

I wonder how many nameless

I wonder how many nameless Shaban bi mokhs acted more savagely after Khomeini and his thugs completely usurped the power from the hands of progressive groups in forms of Islamic Komiteh and what not.

How ironic. In today's Iran

How ironic. In today's Iran we have millions of Shaban bi mokh's in charge of the country and its laws as basijee, Vevak opertors and cyber warriors,  mullah-raising industry of Quom, and IRGC members and supporters. One could also say that the Shaban bi Mokh's legacy lives on in the collective psychee and spirit of all IRI supporters and beneficiaries at the trough.

More facts

More fact on stabbing of Dr. Fatemi by Sha'ban Jafari can be found in his biography page. 

[The heavily bearded Fatemi was arrested around 9:00 AM and taken to police headquarters. While being transferred
to prison that afternoon, in a pre-arranged set up, a large group of pro-Shah mobs welcomed him with shouts of insults and threats of violence. As the handcuffed Fatemi was being led down the stairs by the policemen, about a dozen hoodlums, including their leader, Sha’ban Jafari, rushed toward him. Sha’ban, also known as "the Brainless" and his followers began beating and stabbing Fatemi, who was left unprotected by the policemen responsible for his transfer. His sister, Saltanat, who was witnessing the event ran toward her brother and used her body to shield him from repeated blows and in the process was herself injured. Years later, in an interview conducted in California, Sha’ban admitted that he personally beat up Fatemi that day but denied using a knife against him or his sister.]

//www.mohammadmossadegh.com/biography/hossein...

-YT