Bavafa

vpk

Look Man!

You do not address anyone By "GOT IT" and expect to get away with it do you understand that basic and simple code of decent conversations?

Whan you say GOT IT to someone That is down right denigrating and condescending and By logic RUDE! Because you are "ASSUMING" that that person never got your point the first time.

Now you know where that came from. so wipe the tears off now.

Someone writes

Don't be rude ok?

....

Don't give a damn for the rest of what you wrote. 

You can really talk buddy! With your language who is really rude.  Don;t bother addressing me any more.

VPK

Don't be rude ok?

Got it? (i doubt it)

Don't give a damn for the rest of what you wrote.

Parthian you are lost

Find your way back home before you join a street gang with your mentality.  If an ignorant group of non-Iranians don't like us, I don't have to hate their whole race and culture.  I just associate with the more educated and civil group within them.  And government has nothing to do with anything my friend.  It's how you are brought up and what values are instilled upon you and that does not always correlate with which cabinet is in power.

Doctor Mohandes

I will respond once more then I am done. Frankly this discussion is going nowhere.

1) Most my family has no problem with any race. There are a few in my extended family who do, That is not my problem or my fault. I am only responsible for my actions. 

2) If someone shows up at my door asking for my daughter's hand I will tell them: Go ask her! The decision will be my daughter's not mine. If she were to ask me I would say: do not marry a practicing Muslim man unless you want to be treated like a second class piece of garbage.

Got it?

Nope

I'm gonna put down some comments which I believe answer that certian threads simple questions very clearly. First, Absolutely everyone is racist to a degree. If Whites like blacks, then they don't like Hispanics, mid-easterners etc.. If Blacks like Hispanics, Asians, then they don't like whites etc.... If the people of earth were one race, then we would judge fat, mentally ill retarded, or ugly people ETC..... It's just the way it is. Hate is in our nature, and it will never go away, though you can control it, but it's never going to go away, Just like how happiness, and anger will always be a part of our human emotions, hate will also always be there. 

 This behaviour is not only seen amongst Iranians, infact it's seen much less amongst Iranians compared to other mid-easterners. Mid-easterners, Asians, Africans, Europeans, have this mentality, even Americans. Imagine what an American parent would say if their daugther wanted to marry an Iranian man, I've witnnesed such cases more than I can count.

Now, secondly, Let's make something clear. Just cause you wish to get married to your own to perserve and pass on your own heritage, roots, identity, culture etc... Then that's not racist what so ever, Only white American liberal douche-bags who wanna force their own mentality on others think this way, so i'm surprised that any Iranian would think in such a liberal American point of view.

 Further more, most Iranians, arabs, Afghans, turks (Mid-easterners) Look down upon marrying outside their own in their communities, and for good reasons too, but if I had to choose, I would go with the race second closest to mine, which is white women. Btw, The only reason why you see alot of Iranian men marrying outside their own is because there are alot more Iranian Persian men abroad than women.

 Further more, I dare you to go to any arab country and see if you're not treated horrible and called an ajam (racist slur for ethnic Persians). Iranians dislike Arabs, not all of them, but some, for good reasons.

Arabs have always been hostile to Iran and considered/consider us as their historical enemies, and for religous (Shia/sunni sect) reasons also, especially the Persian gulf arab states and people. Not to mention that the Iran-iraq war that was fought less than 23 years ago, which led to hundreds of thousands of Iranian sons, brothers and fathers losing their lives to the pan-Arab (nazi based ideology) driven war that most of the Arab world participated in due to their anti-Persian hate and racism. Also, how about you read the book that Saddam, who is praised by the arab nationalists wrote about the Persians, and jews. The racist book of saddam: 3 things god should have not created, Jews, Persians, and flies.

 So save me the bullcrap.

 Lastly, If anyone is familiar with the term Persian, you would know that Persians are an ethnic group spread around the world with 3 different countries, Afghanistan, Iran and tajikestan, and can be found from Iran, to the Persian gulf states, Russia, all the way to China with it's 2 million ethnic Persians, and does not only refer to Iranians alone, it's an ethnicity with over 120 million ethnic Persians around the world, 

Now, Kuwait is 40% ethnically Persian, bahrain 40%, UAE 10-20%, and most of these ethnic Persians have been living in those countries since the times of the Persian dynasties like the acheamenids, Sassanians, Parthians, saffavids etc... All these ethnic Persians are treated as second class citizens, their culture, language and identity is constantly suprressed by the Arab states. I've known alot of ethnic Persians from kuwait and they tell me how the arabs treat them as second class citizens and always use racist slurs against them like majoo or ajam.

Also if you're gonna confront racism then don't only point at one group of people, cause that will only raise more hate, retaliation and anger.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Most Iranian parents don't

Most Iranian parents don't care if their child marries an African or a Jew.

An Arab? Out of the question.

VPK

And How exactly did i do Just that? Am i putting a spin on words or is it you who is doing it to my words?

How am i "proving your point" ??? Your point was that this is all A repressive tactic and i said it was not. In your brilliant imagination and enlightened world this passes as proving your point?? Giving yourself credit wherever and whenever the hell you want to right??

1- Your family is a part of you. that being said however, I did not say anything about your stance towards blacks and such.

2- Oh so if a muslim shows up at your door asking for your daughters' hand, You would consider the offer, if his background cheks out ok otherwise? Regardless of the fact that he is a follower of Islam, nontheless? Sounding a bit hypcratic , don't we? You don't even know Where you stand. This is you:

Islam is bad,. But no Muslims are good and it is islamist who are evil... Wait ... No did i just say that?? wait... wait.. Muslim must work hard to earn respect (means that muslim are indeed bad in your opinion).
Make up your mind!

Doctor Mohandes

First you say this is not about equating opposition to Islam and racism. Then you turn around and do just that. Thereby proving my point. I am not going to wast my time arguing that Islam is not a race. You are bent on twisting reality. 

Regarding 

#2 - I said my family not me. There are some in my family who are racist against blacks. I am honest enough to admit it. I am not racist or against blacks myself.

#4 - I said Islamist not Muslim. Islamist means: political Islam. I stand by it.

If Muslim people not just Islamists want respect they must earn it. Islamist have ruined the name of Islam. Therefore now anyone identified as Muslim is getting a bad reputation. This may only be fixed by actions not whining. Unfortunately whining is just what seems to be the chosen path.

VPK

No offenses intended, But it is more like it is your "conspiracy bound" mind actively at work here rather than any kinda of Trick questions involved!!

Asking questions about How one Feels about a person's religion Has absolutely nothing to do with secret and covert repressive tactics! Total rubbish.

Even though Islam is not a race, But discriminating against them and Filtering them out (such as what you do) is considered an act of racism, because it stems from an inherent sense of hatred that you or others may have towards them regardless of their reason for it . It is that Plain and simple and i just don't see what is there that you keep missing.

Part of your answer to question 2 and the whole reply to #4 says a lot about you and how you really feel and what your positions are on the question of racism.

Nothing says and screams in fact of Repression, than when one says I would be dissapointed if my kids would not bash or deny A certain religion,. That is repression for you, Laid bare and wide open for everyone to see. JUst like a craved up Turkey in Thanksgiving Night!

Gobble Gobble.

Parthianshot91 Jan

This blog has nothing to do with "fixing" Iran. It is yet another attempt to equate Islam with a race. In order to label those oppose to Islamism as "racist". We are not stupid and won't fall for this one.

How about we fix the government first

The number one thing we need to do before all else, is first set up a better government representing the Iranian people, then we can discuss social issues and such.

"""However I would hope that those of us in the West that have benefited from living in a larger community with a more colorful race, will learn to tolerate others and accept them for who they are rather then their color, religion or status in the society.""""

Most Americans and westerners don't even view others like that, why would you expect Iranians to view them like that if Americans, who live in a mixed society don't themselves?

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Trick Question

This blog is based on a trick question. Let me explain how. The first set of questions regarding blacks and Arabs brings up legitimate issues of racism. 

It then takes a hard turn and tries to mix anti-Islam with racist. This is a trick Islamist use to repress dissent. We all know Islam is not a race. It is a "religion" some like me would say it is a "cult".  Need I say the obvious that there are Muslims of white; black; yellow and all variations? So why is that question mixed with the rest?

Now to be fair I will respond even though Mehrdad as refused to answer mine.

1) Won't like it. But still rather see me marry a black woman than a white man! I am not kidding.

2) My kids will have to make the decision themselves. My opinion will depend on the person. If they are an Islamist I disapprove. If they are accomplished and good then the race is not a big deal. If they are a dirt bag then I disapprove no matter what race they are.

3)  Same as 2.

4) I will be disappointed if my kids do NOT bash Islamists. 

5) Depends on if it is based on race. Unlike Islam Judaism is more than a religion. It is a people. I oppose bashing Jews. However "bashing" the religion part of Judaism is not racism and is fine.

Sorry Mehrdad nice try. You did a much better job than Q. However the basis of Islam Bashing = racism is wrong. So no matther how it is put, it is still not true.

Thanks Bavafa for this very important blog

I did not get a chance to comment earlier but I share views of Vanaki and yourelf. Yes, many Iranians are racist. I am so sick and tired of hearing about how Perians are better than Arabs and Afghans. Thanks for writing this blog.

Thanks to all who

Thanks to all who commented and offered their opinion, even if it was meant to be less then sincere.

For some reason, a few of us concentrated more then I had hoped on interracial marriage. I had used the marriage only as an example (White American vs. Black American)

All in all, I believe it may only serve to our benefit if we once in a while have a closer look at ourselves and see how we measure up and how we can improve not only in regards to racism but in all aspects of life.

Obviously, Iranians just like any other group have a mix of different people with different tolerances. However I would hope that those of us in the West that have benefited from living in a larger community with a more colorful race, will learn to tolerate others and accept them for who they are rather then their color, religion or status in the society.

Doctor mohandes & Nader Vanaki: I tend to share the same view as yours, not only with Iranians at home but also among those of us abroad. I appreciate you comment

MM Jan: I agree with your comment regarding IRI and their approach. But we don't expect any better from IRI, do we?

DA jaan: you are so sweet and tolarant that even bashing some one, they may take it as a compliment so bash away.

Mehrdad

I know

Some do have African background in the baluch regions, but most don't. Most are simply a Dravadian Persian mix.

 Shab bekher.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Parthian, some People from coastal baloochistan are african

migrants.

But perhaps  you did prove me wrong otherwise with the rest of your comments!

yea, Good night 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Dimwits

Are everywhere unfortunately...

Idiots

Sad thing is that some people think they need to marry someone or give away their people to just prove that they're not racist, lol. I don't hate anyone, except if they hate me, but I still would keep true to my heritage.

Anyways, peace, going to bed.

And stop responding to such threads, cause they really don't deserve such attention espeically when the answer is quite simple, commen knowledge. Plus, I already answered it very well might I add.

P.S, baluch's aren't black, they have dark skin, but they're dravidian (Close to indians) Persian mix. just cause they have dark skin doesn't mean they're African, like how many Asians have white skin but aren't European.

Goodnight

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

No, we are not racists. Ultra nationalists? sometimes!

I think that some of us who have spent a  long time in western countries, with institutional racism, have unfortunately, perhaps subconsciously, adopted some of these racist attitudes.

Just to prove my point, few years back, when I was a small child living in our town in the province of Gilan, one of our female neighbours met and married a fellow student (at Tehran University) who was from Baloochistan. Now this guy was completely black, a negro as they mostly are in that region of baloochistan. When he came to our town for his wedding, there were some curious looks to start with (we had never seen a black guy). But soon he was accepted and much loved by the rest of the town. They are both still married, living in Tehran due to their jobs. Each year I go home, I make a point of visiting this couple.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Bavafa

Thank you for writing this blog up. It is a very appropriate discussion at any given time, which forces us to take a good and introspective look at ourselves and keep ourselves in check once in while. I was hoping that it would not be trashed and tainted by those who worship racism and are one at heart, but sadly looks like it is too late for that.

I would be absolutely open to any and all of those prospects and would totally welcome such decisions. I think we should all be open to such possibilities and not live our lives in caves and separate ourselves from the rest of the community.

Nader vanaki

I agree with pretty much all of what you mentioned. it is so very sad that such phenomenon is more commonplace than we wished for it to be and are the realities for us, that we should hopefully some day deal with them and confront them. But if you look at it, especially in the case of Hiring and paying low wages,  these are true indications of racism, and it more goes in the way of reflecting the realities of living in a market-driven, consumption-based society, that is all. We are doing what so many others do as well.

Bavafa

 If I were you I would close this thread seeing what trolls some people are on this site. No matter how many times you explain things to them they keep on repeating theirselves like broken records.

Just cause they're miserable they wanna drag everyone down with them.

They refuse to understand the concept of human emotions and how the human mind and body works.

 Everyone's got problems, now unless you have a low I.Q or are mentally retarded, this should be commen knowledge to all of you. Plus, if you wanna fix a problem then suggest and do more things to change it yourself, don't constantly complain.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Nader

AAAAw, Let me play you a small violin -_-

 Everyone in this world got issues and none's perfect, jesus, some people just expect too much. My question to you is, how do you expect so much from the people under this government? I'm actually amzed by how much Iranians accomplish no matter how crappy our government is. I'm glad the Iranian community considers anyone who marries outside their own as outcasts and shuns them out, this is the best thing any community could do. Stop trying to shove your own ideals and values amongst others, we obviously don't want it. Why don't you people go bother the Afghans or Arabs who are 100 X worse in their racism.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Minister: Economic Ties

Minister: Economic Ties with Muslims "Iran's Top Priority"

I rest my case

Yes We Are

We call blacks ka ka siah and you never find an Iranian marry one and if they do, they are outcasts.  We like to employ Hispanics just to pay them low wages to work in our pizza shops and restaurants and for the same reason we employ Afghanis in the construction sector.  We make fun of Indians and belittle them all the time.  We feel superior to Arabs and regard their culture as backwards.  We will always be jealous of Turks because they enjoy the best of modernity and tradition and never crapped over their destiny like we did.  Even someone from shahrestan is too much of burden and embarassment to associate with.

The few who marry foreigners just want to have aroos khareji to show off to the rest of Iranian community to proove they deserve a special status.  And the more aroos khareji acts, speaks, and cooks Irooni, the more we can show them off to the rest of the world as our greatest accomplishment-to make another one like us.

Yes Bavafa we think we are the greatest creatures god put on this good earth and we are never happy being Iranian and have to call ourselves Persians so we won't score any less than the Italians and Greeks in national pride and heritage.  God forbid we had any of the power the superpowers had, we would want our Sassanian borders back tommorrow and we would set the world on fire to get it. 

I'm proud to say, we have no

I'm proud to say, we have no racist problem in our family. And the kids in the family are completely color blind. 

But I admit, socially we're American, only with a Persian heritage. 

کبوتر با کبوتر، باز با باز....

Mehrdad,

Unfortunately, there are cultural clues, e.g., the famous poem above that gives hints of an inherent segregation.  The current IRI elite just re-enforces the notion of segregation to new confines of religious/racial intolerance as well.  We have a long ways before we tear down the artificial castles we have built and reach religious/racial/gender integration.

If...

If I don't like Sushi does that make racist towards the Japanese?

Racism has a very negative connotation in Western culture because of the West's colonial past and also because of its age-old practice of overt and covert slavery which goes back to Greek and Roman times!

In our culture I would say it is more a preference in terms of taste and culture for people we feel more affinity towards.

Racism is also a self-preservation instinct which at times may not be consciously initiated at all!

Last but not least; how do you explain for instance on the Earth the existence of so many different races and languages etc.? There seems to be a tendency for people to stick to their own kind and the racial mixing takes place along the borders in gradual shades! In other words different people living closer to each other exhibit more affinity towards and resemble each other more.

Parthian, " Ajami" means mute

They called us ( some still call us ) mute becuase Iranians were THE ONLY culture that was able to preserve its language. Another favourite term for them is ZANDIGH ( fire worshipers) 

Also notice how not a single Arab country has condemned almost daily bombings in Iraq, which targets Shia ( although Iraqi Shias are as Arab as they come, becuase of their faith, they're nor real "Arabs").

For a twister: when they had a wave of protests in Khuzestan a fewyears ago ( in Ahvaz, Khoram'shahr,..) after IR arrested as many protestors as they could, they brought in, Emad Moghanieh from Lebanon to interrogate them.( Iranians of Arab decent) Imagine this : IR condemns repression of Palestinians, but when Iran's own Arab decendents rise up, it resorts to Hezbollah to put them down.

Ethnic Persians and Arab facism

If anyone is familiar with the term Persian, you would know that Persians are an ethnic group spread around the world with 3 different countries, Afghanistan, Iran and tajikestan, and can be found from Iran, to the Persian gulf states, Russia, all the way to China with it's 2 million ethnic Persians, and does not only refer to Iranians alone.

Now, Kuwait is 40% ethnically Persian, bahrain 40%, UAE 10-20%, and most of these ethnic Persians have been living in those countries since the times of the Persian dynasties like the acheamenids, Sassanians, Parthians, saffavids etc... All these ethnic Persians are treated as second class citizens, their culture, language and identity is constantly suprressed by the Arab states. I've known alot of ethnic Persians from kuwait and they tell me how the arabs treat them as second class citizens and always use racist slurs against them like majoo or ajam.

If you're gonna confront racism then don't only point at one group of people, cause that will only raise more hate, retaliation and anger.

 --------------------------------------------------------------

"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"