Cartoon:The Discreet Charm of the Iranian Men!

Cartoon:The Discreet Charm of the Iranian Men!
by Azadeh Azad
30-May-2010
 

The Discreet Charm of the Iranian men! Le charme discret des hommes iraniens!

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more from Azadeh Azad
 
Anonymouse

I posted a link to your blog in a collection of related items

by Anonymouse on

I posted a link to your blog in a collection of related items in  Chauvinists vs. Shadi Sadr: invitation to write

Everything is sacred.


Azadeh Azad

Friends

by Azadeh Azad on

Dear gunjeshk. sag koochooloo, Shepesh and Anonymouse: thank you for your supportive voices.

Cheers,

Azadeh


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Divaneh

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

You got me on the Kabab.


divaneh

Hamsade, Faramarz and VPK

by divaneh on

Dear Hamsade,

thanks for elaborating on that story. I read it many years ago and had forgotten the professions. It must have been an astronomist. Didn't know about positivism but i know now. Thanks.

Faramarz Jaan,

my observations confirm yours but I am not going to repeat myself and leave it to the personal judgement of the readers.

Dear VPK,

well it depends what you fancy for your dinner. If it's Kabab then it seems to be the duty of the man in most households. Also one word of advice, if in your household men don't cook and still think of kitchen as the domain of women, then get out as fast as you can.


Anonymouse

Ari jaan maybe words like lobby or chauvinism cant be translated

by Anonymouse on

But in Iran we are in them up to our necks! Neck-n-Neck!  Some would say over our heads! 

Everything is sacred.


Ari Siletz

Anonymouse

by Ari Siletz on

By my estimate, mard saalaari=patriarchy. zan setizi=misogyny.

Looking forward to your blog. The 79 revolutioniaries tabled the patriarchy issue for "after" the revolution. BIIIG mistake!


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by Shepesh on

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Anonymouse

من فکر کردم مرد سالاری = شونیسم؟

Anonymouse


I had not heard of mard-parasti or mard-navazzi. I'd vote for zan-setizi as a good translation, especially in Iran and especially the fight that has been going on against women in Iran.

I'm thinking of writing a blog about this subject of ALL (Iranian) men are created equal!

For now and until I get a chance to write that blog I like this cartoon! 

Everything is sacred.


default

"I am still waiting for my lamb kabab dinner! "

by sag koochooloo on

On your head OK?   ;-]   


default

Me too, I vote for more cartoons

by gunjeshk on

Azadeh-jan, you are simply brilliant!

Everyone hear her words, again please: "Sexism and male chauvinism are not crimes! They are simply part of the fabric of our human societies."

Let me go further: when men (of any stripe) begin to compete with each other to show how tolerant they are, you can be sure the old ways willsoon end (boys will be boys). Male chauvinism is the product of untold millenium; it is too comfortable, too well justified by centuries of unthinking behavior.

Women are the ones who must end it. With their activism. Men simply can't end their chauvinism by themselves, Women have to do it for them by making the attitude impossible,

Education also helps.

Women simply have to march on . . . no one ever got their rights by waiting for chauvinists (of any kind) to suddenly have an epiphany! Bravo, Azadeh-jan for your fiery words. I am truly inspired!

(Me too, I vote for more cartoons).


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

White Sheep

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I am still waiting for my lamb kabab dinner!


Faramarz

چه استقبالى از مرد هاى ايرانى شد

Faramarz


The guy in the cartoon is short, bald, fat, unshaven and a chauvinist! A true representative of the Iranian males!
The last time that I looked around my crowd, the men were very liberal with their views and generally decent looking.

Divaneh,
Was the white sheep nervous? There is a saying that in Scotland, "Men are men, and sheep are very nervous!" I think that the same is true about Iran!


Ari Siletz

Agreed Azadeh

by Ari Siletz on

Conceptually the same.

Now let me teach you how to fight against other Iranian men's male chauvinism: send in more cartoons.


Azadeh Azad

Ari

by Azadeh Azad on

The following sculpture is called "Observer."  But I think a more appropriate title would be your "The observed measuring the observer" - in a completely different way, also more general and less provocative, than Sarah Maple's Photography. 

http://rubyreusable.com/artblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/observer%20newburybay.jpg

http://rubyreusable.com/artblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/4observer.jpg

http://rubyreusable.com/artblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/2observer.jpg

I believe that the sculpture is conceptually the same as my above caricature - at least in one aspect.

Azadeh


Ari Siletz

Can't do much better.

by Ari Siletz on

Azadeh, can't do much better translating "artistic chauvinism." But in the past concepts like "honar setizi, " and "honar aazaari" have come to mind to describe the state of the arts in Iran these days. Another favorite is a word describing artists living under those conditions who are visually quite competent but confused emotionally or intellectually: honarmang

 

 

HG,

Nice brief discussion of positivism. To continue the thread of thought to the arts, paradoxically positivism may have created its reverse image in the arts. As positivism produced its scientific and technological yield, naturalism gave way to modernism. For example the telephone created the psychological possibility of being in several places at once--a clearly unphysical state. For example, Du Champ.

Modern Feminism (and reactions to it), being an aspect of the Western cultural upheaval, has of course also opened up new psychological states of mind previously harder to find. I keep going back to Sarah Maple to experience the multi-polar male reaction to this painting. The subject is judging me! Nowadays it's also about the observed measuring the observer.

 


Azadeh Azad

Artistic chauvinism! LOL!

by Azadeh Azad on

Thanks Ari jan for coming to the defense of the over 12 year-old caricaturist! :-) This is the first time I see the two words "artistic" and "chauvinism" coming together! For some reason, that makes me think of Nicholas Chauvin and the original French term, "chauvinisme." Any unconscious connection between Art and French? I ask myself!

As you probably know, "Chauvinisme" was coined to describe excessive nationalism after the satirical treatment, in a play, of a semi-mythical French soldier under Napoleon by the name of Nicolas Chauvin. He apparently served in the Old Guard at Waterloo and when the Old Guard was surrounded, he supposedly shouted in defiance to a call for their surrender: "The Old Guard dies but does not surrender!"

In Persian, Ariyanpour used "Khaak Parasti" for Chauvinism. So, I think "male chauvinism" could be translated as "Mard Parasti," although the "new" word I frequently heard in Iran of 15 years ago was "Mard Navaazi!"(both written and spoken.)

What about "artistic chauvinism?" I wonder what Persian translation you give to this new expression of yours. Honar Parasti :-)

Cheers,

Azadeh


Ari Siletz

Artistic chauvinism?

by Ari Siletz on

Even without the words it is instantly obvious that this cartoon was made by no 12 year old. Deliberate or not there is an understanding of:

1.visual balance. For example the curling on the edges of the parchment rhyme with those on the furniture armrest. The light switch is funny because it mimics a face with a square nose.

2.context sensitive design. Note how the man's body lines up with the horizontal wall lines, in his happy frame of mind, but it lines up with the vertical elements when he's ticked off.

Simple lines sometimes trick us into underestimating the quality of the art work. But in this case, stripping the room to its bare vertical and horizontal components strongly suggest the man's on/off binarized states of mind (light switch imagery again).


Anahid Hojjati

Dear Azadeh and Hamsade,thanks for addressing me in comments

by Anahid Hojjati on

Azadeh jan, it would be nice to see a day soon that Majid Tavakoli is employed as an engineer and that is what we hear about him not like now that we read about him being in prison.

Hamsade jan, thanks for explaining more about the old story.  This kind of discussion is all very interesting.  By the time that I commented, thread was more than a cartoon, there were good number of comments, so there were more items to comment about.


hamsade ghadimi

divaneh, anahid

by hamsade ghadimi on

divaneh, 

the story that you described is a famous story that some attribute to the discussion of philosophy of science, particulary the discussion in the modern times that was initiated by karl popper.  karl popper was initially a positivist (he later modified his view in concession to his critics).  positivism relies on observation and as an example popper posited on the statement "all ravens are black."  popper conceded that no one can capture and inspect all ravens in the world to verify that his statement is true (or unture).  therefore, until someone can refute (or falisfy) his hypothesis by finding a raven that is not black, his statement is true.  hence, the detective is offering the most impractical, if not impossible, solution of examining every single sheep closely (i hadn't heard this part).  the practical way of assessing the veracity of hypothesis is through sampling of a population.  another example of falisification is that of "all swans are white" which held true until the british landed in australia and witnessed black swans for the first time.

the chemist statement (the version i heard, it was an astronomist: seeing everything from afar) can be easily falsified by finding a black sheep (hinting at positivism).  in the version i heard, the physicist claims that "some sheeps are white" (hinting at modified positivism; conjecture through empricism).  and the mathematician, the pure scientist (science can be divided into pure science (math), physical science, and social science), whose methodology is based on deduction is the only one who is making a true statement.  with the exception of mathematics, scientific findings are based on forms of logic other than deduction (majority through induction or empricism).

discussion on philosphy of science has been much developed since the days of positivism and has notably been challenged by paradigmaic shift theory of thomas kuhn and one of my favorites feyerabend's anarchism model.  there are many more philoshophers in between and in more recent times that have expanded this knowledge set. side note: i forgot the name of journal (nature?, science?) that had a dedication on its last page called "enemy of science."  in one time or another, all of the above philosophers were showcased as "enemy of science" highlighting the contentiousness of the topic. :)

anahid,

i find it curious that you kept quiet on your disagreement (i'm assuming) with "men are sexist" but could not keep quiet on supposed disparagement on engineers. the ex-engineer side of me finds it pleasing, and the social scientist part of me finds it .... ambivalent. :)


Azadeh Azad

Yolanda

by Azadeh Azad on

I mean that a majority of the Iranian women (particularly women who live inside the country) have internalised sexist ideas and are perpetrators (as mother, wives, teachers etc.) of social structures, customs and ideas that work against their own interests. No doubt that there is always a current of "dissatisfaction" among them, but that usually doesn't translate into an awareness of the roots of their problems as women. Here, I am certainly not speaking of the educated middle-class women in big cities who are supporting the One Million Signatures Campaign. Hope this clarifies my statement.

Azadeh


yolanda

....

by yolanda on

Hi! Azadeh,

    What do you mean by "the majority of the Iranian women are male chauvinists too"?

thanks,


Azadeh Azad

divaneh & Anahid

by Azadeh Azad on

Dear divaneh:

By "hostile," I was not at all referring to you, but to some other readers who were hostile to me in the past for having expressed my opinion that "All Iranian men are male chauvinists TO DIFFERENT DEGREES."   I still believe that you did not understand my caricature, whether you are young or old. Not understanding my work does not lower you in any way. It is MY responsibility to write or draw in such a way that it is understandable. Furthermore, I don't mind at all to be contradicted and I found the way you objected to me to be quite refreshing. Finally, as being a chauvinist is neither a sin nor a crime, I don't think stating that the Iranian men are chauvinists is an "accusation." It is simply a statement, an opinion.

Dear Anahid:

Concerning "engineers,"I said "maybe." Right? So, I stand corrected. Thank you. They are certainly problem-solvers.  Majid Tavakkoli too is an engineer and I have posted his excellent letter from the Evin Prison in my blog.

Cheers,

Azadeh


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Re: Logical conclusion

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

VPK saz: I like lamb for dinner. Get my wife to cook that sheep!


Anahid Hojjati

First they called men sexist, I was quiet , and now engineers?

by Anahid Hojjati on

Azadeh jan, when I first saw your cartoon, I was going to make a comment that it is ironic that you posted this blog with your Avatar which is a picture of Majid Tavakoli. Any way, I never made that commnet but now that you wrote:"Sexism and male chauvinism are not crimes! They are simply part of the fabric of our human societies.  Maybe the fact that many of the IC readers are "engineers," as opposed to "social scientists," has something to do with this lack of understanding."

Now I have to speak up. Engineers are problem solvers so there is a good chance that with study of fabric of society, they can do a good job. Certainly not any worse than "social scientists". You surely know that in most counties some of the best students become engineers and....Any way I just wanted to defend engineers. 


divaneh

Hostile?

by divaneh on

What is so hostile about disagreeing with you? I simply pointed that it is not possible to draw such sweeping statement as you could have not met every Iranian man. You accuse me by extension to be a male chauvinists and are surprised when I reject that accusation and maintain that I must be old because I do not understand your caricature. Well, it seems like I was not the only one.

Your comparison of men and women reactions is not that valid neither, as these are the men who are accused and not their mothers.

I don't say that we have a shortage of chauvinist males in our society but do not agree with any generalisation.


Azadeh Azad

The Charming Art of Missing the Point

by Azadeh Azad on

divaneh aziz:

You are right, but I was trying to cover the spirit of the caricature, whose point you completely missed. 

The caricature is NOT about generalisations, commonalties or differences, it is about THE INTENSE & GUILTY REACTIONS of Iranian men who simply refuse to look at themselves as carriers and reapers of the patriarchal system. 

I do believe that the majority of the Iranian women are male chauvinists too. However, if I make a similar statement about the Iranian women to them, I wouldn't get the hostile reaction that I get when speaking to the Iranian men. An Iranian mother would not deny having transmitted male chauvinistic ideas to her children; she would simply say something like "Well, that was my upbringing and that was all I knew!" I have spoken about this subject to hundreds and hundreds of Iranians of both sexes and the pattern repeats itself constantly- especially among the older generation.

In a sexist culture, we are all sexists to different degrees and in a racist culture, we are all racists to different degrees. One should be very arrogant or ignorant to deny that.

A relatively non-sexist or non-racist person will NEVER become HOSTILE if put into a general category of either sexists or racists, because he/she knows himself/herself. However, the Iranian men generally become defensive (by lecturing me or, like yourself, by giving me a story to make a point that is irrelevant to the point that *I* am making) or defensively aggressive by insulting me. They speak about ME instead of simply reflecting about the subtleties of sexism in themselves, which the above caricature tries to depict.

Sexism and male chauvinism are not crimes! They are simply part of the fabric of our human societies.  Maybe the fact that many of the IC readers are "engineers," as opposed to "social scientists," has something to do with this lack of understanding. 

Anyway, I am hopeful that the new generation of Iranian men are much more open-minded than the older generation.  A young Iranian would never miss the very clear point of my caricature.

Azadeh


benross

I'm all with you Azadeh

by benross on

Just a side note. Every man was fed and nurtured by a mother.

Okay okay divaneh let's put it this way. At least one man was fed and nurtured by one mother... from the side I could see :-) 


divaneh

Dear Azadeh

by divaneh on

As practical as the detective's suggestion is, there is no correction to be made to the mathematician. There is at least one sheep in Scotland that is at least white on one side. Now every other sheep could be white, black, orange or purple. It does not change the validity of that statement.

I have however never seen much validity in the sweeping statements that magnify the commonality and ignore the differences.  


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Iranian Men

by sag koochooloo on

Brilliant in the Looks department, but too domineering. Good cartoons though.            :-)


pastor bill rennick

Brother Jack Jones formed this Iranian manpig's Character ....

by pastor bill rennick on

in the 60's....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rqaRfsNfg

 

Hey, little girl,
Comb your hair, fix your make-up.
Soon he will open the door.
Don't think because
There's a ring on your finger,
You needn't try any more

For wives should always be lovers, too.
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
I'm warning you.

Day after day,
There are girls at the office,
And men will always be men.
Don't send him off
With your hair still in curlers.
You may not see him again.

For wives should always be lovers, too.
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
He's almost here.

Hey, little girl
Better wear something pretty,
something you'd wear to go to the city.
And dim all the lights,
Pour the wine, start the music.
Time to get ready for love.

Oh, time to get ready,
Time to get ready,
Time to get ready
For love.