Anonymous8

Anonymous8

If you saw my comment I said;

These 'true Iranians' blame everyone for troubles in Iran from god to the smallest creatures except for israel.

AND have you seen this one by F Fateh;

If one the Ayatollah's or Hojatollahs or any of the scum bags ...... blah  blah  ...... had 0.01% of courgae, decency and patriotism of Arial Sharon, Iran would be heaven now.

this is just a typical example, sharon is just like other blood hungry ones in middle east.

Sorry, LanceRaheem, very VERY wrong

the way you justify, and augment this hate toward a person who had nothing to do with it is truly amazing.

Your analogies are purely self-serving. If Iranians are doing something wrong, you should also be hated, by your own argument. that means it was OK to blame you for the hostage crisis and other things you had no part in. That's a hater mentality.

why they hate you is like a pedophile who has viciously violated a child repeatedly over the course of years asking the child's parents, why do you hate me so?

No my confused friend. Even going with your hysterical analogy, it's not like hating a child moslestor. It's like hating another random guy who has the same religion as the pedophile claims.

I guess there was a lot you wanted to get off your chest, found the nearest muslim guy and pretended he's your enemy. But you have also just demonstrated the reasons why illogical and irrational hate continues.

Anvar

I seriously doubt if anyone really hates the person of you. Yet, you are justifiably hurt. Why?

Maybe because he gets personally attacked as you can clearly see here and elsewhere?

The problem is a lot of true haters just want to say: "It's OK to hate you because you are Muslim." There are a lot of excuses and guilt by association arguments made, but that's what it boils down to at the end of the day.

It's naked bigotry and absolutely unacceptable.

It’s not you – It’s your uniform

When opposing armies battle each other, each side is identified by the uniform they wear or the flag they bear.  

I seriously doubt if anyone really hates the person of you.  Yet, you are justifiably hurt.  Why?  Here’s my speculation (since you asked):  

To Muslims, Islam represents spirituality, peace, contentment, justice, etc.  They believe that IF everyone practiced it, as they’d recommend, the world would be a better place.  That makes sense; hence, they proudly proclaim their faith and pick up the banner of Islam.

However, to many others, the banner of Islam that they are flying, symbolizes all the historical and current atrocities that have been committed in the name of Islam.  (i.e.: oppression, domination, terrorism, etc.)

This is akin to the battles the Crusaders fought under the name of Christianity and not to be mistaken with the acts of a crazy handful who’d murder someone in the name of Christ.

It seems that some Muslims rightfully or conveniently reject other Muslims who also proclaim their love for, or act in the name of, Islam.   

At the risk of repeating myself from another blog:  Islam is not just how some people in Los Angeles, New York, or London idealize it to be.  It is also how it is practiced in Tehran, Cairo, and Riyadh.  

I am happy that many have found fulfillment in Islam and, more importantly, have the freedom to express themselves.  Undoubtedly, they all are good people and, when asked, they’d advocate freedom of speech and equality of rights for all.  That is great but that is what I referred to as Idealized Islam.  

When it comes to Practiced Islam; where in the many Islamic countries can I, too, write a similar blog, or use the other media, to proclaim my pride for the Baha’i faith?  Where can *Faramarz_Fateh* (as in his recent blog) freely announce that he is a proud ex-Muslim?   

Some judge Islam by its philosophy and some judge it by its effects.  Surely, we can agree that there is some truth in both viewpoints.  

Yes, it is best to judge people by the content of their character but it is not always easy to overlook their uniforms.

Disclaimer – I personally have only love, and no hateful feelings, towards humanity - but it’s not about me.

Anvar

Anonymous8

Dude, your last two questions are really comical: Why is there so much hate toward me?/ What did I do to deserve this hate?

Reminds me of what Americans were asking back in 2004-2005: Why do they (Muslims) hate us so much?

If you don't know why so many people hate you and your religion, go to Youtube and watch what your Muslim brothers were doing to decent Iranians who tried peacefully protesting after the election.  Ask all the male and female prisoners who were raped in Iranian prisons by security agents why they hate your religion.  Ask the parents of all the hanged children over the past thirty years why they hate your religion.  Ask all the women (and not those hags wrapped in black rags) that your kind have reduced to second class citizens why they hate your religion.  Ask all the decent hard-working Iranians who have watched your fellow Muslim comrades rob the country blind for thirty years why they hate your religion.   Go to all of Iran's graveyards, and ask the dead who have been murdered by the thugs and henchmen of your religion why they hate it.  I'm sure if you do all of these things, you'll start to understand why so many people hate everything you stand for. 

Asking ordinary patriotic Iranians who've watched your kind destroy our country for thirty years why they hate you is like a pedophile who has viciously violated a child repeatedly over the course of years asking the child's parents, why do you hate me so?   Our country and our people have taken it in every orpheus for over three decades by people who think like you...don't add insult to injury and demand that we like it....or like you for doing it to our country.  People with your hateful religious beliefs deserve to get back ten-fold every bit of hate and scorn they've dumped on the Iranian people for thirty years.  Do I hate everything you believe in?   You bet I do and I'm not ashamed to say so!     

Mr./Mrs. Anonymous8

We don't hate you or Islam. But PAN ISLAMIC, POLITICAL ISLAM views must be confronted directley and dealt with clearly!! Keep your religious belives personal stay away from Political Islam and respect belives of ohers and we all can get along in peace. Thanks.

Sohraby

Saudi Arabia , house of Saud, is NOT the cradle of Islam. House of Saud is a ruler of the birthplace of Islam since 1932 and those lands are governed by HIS interpertation on Islam.

Second, In the Quran it is permissible for abrahamic religions and other faiths that worship the 1 God to setup places of worship. this is clearly seen in Muslim land in which the House of Saud does not rule

Now as for Apostates facing execution this is not sanctioned in the Quran unless those Apostates are actively waging war against Muslims. However Apostasy in itself , simply leaving Islam, there is no prescribed worldly punishments whatsoever. No Muslim or Cleric has this authority or right to kill anyone for Apostasy as they lack divine authority to do so. This invested authority of taking Life is prescribed only to God's annoited Moshiach, Messiah, Imam and this is clearly seen in Hadith and illustrated in the Hebrew Bible.

 Lastly in regards to Jazeeh. This started in the Torah and is continued in the Quran. Islam is a revival of the religion and tradition of the Hebrew Prophets of Bani-Israel.

"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations." -- Deuteronomy  20:10-15

not religious these days but all the same

I am Muslim and I love Islam

I'm a proud Iranian MUSLIM!!!!!!

What makes you proud to be a Muslim? There are many good reasons to be proud of your Iranian heritage but no reason what so ever that could make you a proud Muslim.

Even the name “Islam” is a derivation of “tasliem,” the tazi(Arab) word for “surrender,” surrender to whom? To the dictates of Allah which was created by Muhammad. Are you proud to be the slave and taslimee to an idiology which deprive you from many of the fundamental human rights?

Isn't Islam the religion which proclaims itself as the only legitimate religion for the entire world? Does Islam recognize the rights of Bahaies, Zoroasterians, jews, Christians etc. to exist or they have to pay Jazeeh(infidel tax) to be allowed to practice their religion?

There is not a single church, synagogue or temple in Saudi Arabia, while thousands of mosques have been built by Muslims in non-Moslem lands. Do you have any explaination for that, Mr. proud iranian muslim? Saudi Arabia is the cradle of Islam, right?

Is islam the religion of peace and freedom? What will happen to a muslim if he/she wants to convert to other religions? Why any Muslem who leaves Islam is judged as apostate and is condemned to death? Freedom of speech does not exist in islam because everything is dictated by Allah.

The 30 years of IRI gave us a bitter taste of islam naabeh Mohammady that we will never forget it, right? That's what make you proud to be a Muslim, an Iranian Muslim!!!!!!

Anonymous8

You'll be attacked and offended and ridiculed... by association. And you well know why. This is not your fault, not more than the fault of any Iranian who let this regime be created and survive for over 30 years.

But you must understand that you being a 'visible' Muslim will always be offended by this overpowering association. Do not blame general public for their prejudice and I know you won't because you did write here and did address the issue. This is one big step. It helps us to better control our prejudice and be more considerate toward Iranians of faith.

I did mention 'Iranians of faith' and not 'Iranians of Islamic faith' because this is the whole issue. Islam does not own Iran. It is a faith amongst others, albeit with larger followers. This is the secularism view about faith in Iran. Be free to choose your God and worship it and preach his message anyway you want. But respect the same right for everyone else, including those who do not have any faith at all. I know you do that. But you know it is not what is being done in Islamic regime and you must understand why there are attacks toward your faith.

I don't think your dilemma will be fully resolved as long as Islamic regime exists. I have other reasons which are based on my personal understanding of the nature of your faith. But my personal understanding remains personal. For what matters to the collectivity, thank you for bringing it up. It helps us to be more considerate.

In some ways, your resolution for ending Islamic regime must be much stronger than any other Iranian, if you are really concerned about restoring the respect for your faith. 

A Matter of Convenience

Capt_ayhab wrote: “However when Timothy McVeigh was found guilty, it was simply “Timothy McVeigh” and not “Christian Fundamentalists”. Now Ms. Gillani can you explain why? Why not all the Christians , or even entire American population was not blamed for this act of crime?”

Because it is more convenient to brush the root of the problem under the rug and pretend that the responsibility lies with one person. Christian fundamentalists have committed atrocities throughout the history and will do so again given another chance.

American society is clearly in danger as Christian fundamentalism has been on the rise…

Credible Criticism

Mammad wrote: “your criticism of what is done in Islam's name becomes credible, in my opinion, only when you also criticize the crimes committed by the adherents of other religions…”

I respectfully disagree. First, I am an Iranian, a patriot, and a political activist. My focus and energy is devoted to my homeland and its future. Believe it or not, my calling isn’t to bring peace and prosperity to the world! I am not under some sort of Miss American delusion that “world peace” is achievable in my lifetime.

Consequently, I put my vigor into the betterment of my homeland. The rest is just sideshow…

Zulfiqar....I'll pay for your hospitalization

and medications.

Ariel Sharon is a butcher!! LOL LOL

If one the Ayatollah's or Hojatollahs or any of the scum bags that are involved in running the God Damned IRI had 0.01% of courgae, decency and patriotism of Arial Sharon, Iran would be heaven now.

Zulfiqar

I found you a nice place to get some help.  I think you should really check this place out.  Trust me, it's for your own good.  Here's the site:

//www.mclean.harvard.edu/

Beautifully said Mrs.

God bless! Harfe dele mano 45-50 million Irooni ro neveshtee

Q

One of those who promises what atrocities he will commit against  Iranian Muslims in his "democratic Iran" leaves comment here all the time. As a matter of fact, you can find his comment in the present thread. He thought that "Jomhouri-ye Irani" means a country without Muslims!! Yup! Dream on! 

Mammad

Kaveh V

Thee are similar verses in the Old testament, and in the New one.

Mammad

LG

You either misunderstood what I said, or intentionally misrepresented it. Since, you say you have tremendous respect for Ayatollah Montazeri, I am hopeful that it is the former.

I did not say that Muslims should be less criticized, or not at all, because they have killed fewer people, either by themselves, or in their name. To the contrary, I am a strong critic of the ayatollahs and supposedly muslims who are killing Iranian people and ruining my native land, all in the name of my religion.

What I said, and repeat again, is that your criticism of what is done in Islam's name becomes credible, in my opinion, only when you also criticize the crimes committed by the adherents of other religions to other people, particularly against Muslims, and against especially Iranian Muslims, from the 1953 coup that is at the root of the present misery in Iran, to provoking Iraq to attack Iran and arming it to the teeth, to arming the Jundallah terrorists to attack innocent people of Sistan and Baluchestan.

Most absurdly, what you ignore is that the victims of the crimes that are taking place in Iran are FIRST AND FOREMOST Iranian Muslims. Of the tens of thousands of people who have been executed over the past 30 years, less than 5% have been non-Muslims and non-believers in religion. The rest have been Muslims. At least 80% of all the executed were members and supporters of the Mojahedin Khalgh, who were Muslims.

Why do I say that those who criticize Islam, or what is done in its name (which in many cases are valid criticism) should also criticize the crimes committed by the adherents of other religions? Because at the most fundamental level, all such crimes are violations of human rights of people everywhere. And, respect and support for human rights is a universal value. Therefore, just as we must condemn the atrocities done in Iran - whose victims are FIRST AND FOREMOST MUSLIMS - so should also we condemn the same everywhere.

Mammad

  I too don't care about

I too don't care about what anyone believes in, as long as you don't try to impose it upon others. I believe many comments on this blog have already articulated this point.

HOWEVER,

When I read the source, your holy book, it clearly and specifically instructs the believer to interfere and dominate the society in the most barbaric and gruesome ways and as a follower you are obligated to carry out these instructions. This is what your holly book says:

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them.  Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.” [sura 66:8]    

“SLAY THEM wherever you find them.  Drive them out of the places from which they drove you.  Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed.” [sura 2:191]

“Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms.  If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding.” [sura 8:62]

“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.  Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.” [sura 47:1]

“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them.  Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” [sura 9:4]

If you believe in this garbage, then what does it say about you ?!
Don't ask me to respect this criminality, because I will not!

Responsibility ? Ms. Gillani

In April 1995, immediately after the Oklahoma City bombing which killed 168 man woman and children, fingers were pointed at Islamic Fundamentalist, to a point that no middle eastern looking person dared to come out of their house for weeks. However when Timothy McVeigh was found guilty, it was simply “Timothy McVeigh” and not “Christian Fundamentalists”.

Now Ms. Gillani can you explain why? Why not all the Christians , or even entire American population was not blamed for this act of crime?

When you are done explaining this, can you also explain why all the Christians should not be blamed for crimes of IRA, Basque Separatist Groups, and Eric Robert Rudolph's?

Once you done explaining those, will you tell us WHY all Jews should not be held responsible for the crimes of Butcher Of Sabra and Chatila.

-YT 

P/S FYI - Butcher of Sabra and Chatila is affectionately known as Ariel Sharon

PP/S Eric Robert Rudolph AKA Olympic village bomber

I AM a proud MUSLIM and IRANIAN

It feels good to say it brother!

Thank You for this wonderful piece. Thank You for defending your pride in the face of virtual persecution.

I may not be as devout as you but nontheless I am proud. Why should this bother people? Why does it? Why shouldn't young Iranians be proud of their religion and the religion of their countrymen? The answer is they should!

The Mrs, Compared to being Iranian, being a Muslim IS achieved. Even if the brother was born a Muslim, he has a choice to leave it or stop practicing it. There is no such choice if you are born Iranian.

Laleh,, re: responsibility. I believe you completely missed the brother's point. You are saying he is responsible for any bad things that happen in Islam. Because he has something in common with bad people (not even getting into a discussion of why and who you consider "bad"). He just said You are responsible too because you also have something in common: being Iranian. Even if you are Jewish Iranian, you are Iranian. So are you ready to answer for the crimes committed in the name of your nationality? So this would mean you should start blaming yourself.

Of course the flaw and the absurdity become clear. You are assigning blame to someone who had nothing to do with it. I don't know why you are doing it, but that is the essence of the unfair attacks and stereotypes that Anonymous8 is reacting to.

Mammad , you are absolutely right. I have had specific people explain to me "what we will do to Muslims" under a "free Iran." It is more than obvious there is serious hate and all this talk about democracy and regime change is a stepping stone in acting on that hate. This truth, I believe has been fully recognized by the Iranian people, which is why none of the so-called western based "opposition" has been embraced by Iranians up til now.

As you can see they consider the mere act of being a proud Muslim as complicit with IRI crimes, which means 90% of Iranians will have to be locked up in a "free" Iran.

I should say in the interest of fairness, it is relatively a small number who are acting primarily on hate and revenge and simply abusing the language of freedom and democracy. A lot of people do not abuse it.

a tool for enlightenment

a tool for enlightenment and to get to God.   You can love God or Enlightenment - but one must not love the tool

Words to live by. thank you MA.

You can be proud of your religion

You are free to do whatever you wish with it - but you may not impose any of it on others.   Can you do that ?  can you stand up to those who try to impose their religious ways on others in Iran?   if not - then you don't understand religion and you certainly don't love Iran.

Also - Religion is just a tool - a tool for enlightenment and to get to God.   You can love God or Enlightenment - but one must not love the tool.   

Is Laleh Responsible?

Anonymous8 wrote: “…those crimes were done by iranians. you are responsible too, if you look at it this way.

If I believed in or defended the ideology that is driving these Iranians to commit such crimes, then yes: I am responsible too.

The bad news for you is this: I don’t believe in nor defend Islam.

Secularism

Abarmard wrote: “… they also have to put blame on secularism where dictators crimes including but not limited to torture, rape, murder, and thievery conducted by the secular men all over the world.”

If a secular system is a dictatorship, the rulers must be held responsible for their deeds.

This dance of pointing fingers at other systems or religions doesn’t absolve Muslims from the responsibility to answer for the crimes committed by an Islamic regime.

Laleh Gilani,

I am a proud muslim, you are holding me responsible for "30 years of crime?" those crimes were done by iranians. you are responsible too, if you look at it this way.

Sassan,

That's great about not attacking me personally. Thank You.

 i just have one more point.

In the other thread you said you hold Iran sacred, that Iran is your "religion". please, next time you write something aweful and negative about islam, imagine what it would feel like if someone said the same exact thing about iran.

 mersi.

Ayatollah Montazeri

Vildemose wrote: “I think Ayatollah Montazeri has done that. He has been a exemplary muslim... He has already indicated to the world that the Islamic Republic is neither Islamic NOR Republic...”

I have tremendous respect for Ayatollah Montazeri and his effort to document the mass murders of 80’s. In his diary, he writes about these events and absolves himself of any wrong doing. In short, he has disagreed with the regime of mullahs and has refused to participate in their crimes.

However, his actions have always fallen short of his words. For example, Ayatollah Montazeri opposed the mass murder of political prisoners in the 80’s, but his opposition didn’t go far enough to halt these actions.

In addition, even Ayatollah Montazeri believes that it is the duty of a religious leader to oppose “non-Islamic” laws ratified by a secular government. In his ideal world, the men of the cloth don’t actively participate in politics but serve as watch dogs over the system. If and when the time comes, they will use their religious influence over the masses to dictate the course of politics.

As long as Muslims find it their duty to meddle in politics to enforce Islamic laws over a society, they must be ready to answer for the crimes committed in the name of their faith.

First of all, please

First of all, please enlighten us on how you can be proud of something you haven't actually acheived? Did you BECOME Iranian through hard work? Or have you BECOME Muslim through hard work? At best, you can claim that you are happy with what you were born with. I sometimes say I'm proud to be Iranian too but then I think to myself, WTF? How can I be proud of something that I had nothing to do with getting?! Hmmm...just a thought. I could've even been born Chinese or African. Shouldn't we be proud of things we do? Insted of things that were given to us?

Now, be as muslim as you want. But stay out of my way. That means, don't meddle with matters of government, unless you are willing to put your religion at home. Which, if you are very devout, you won't be able to do because your faith demands that you take it with you every where...so it's a problem.

Don't tell me what to do. Who to do it with. What to eat. What not to eat. How to dress. What to read. Or who to worship, or curse. Which again, if you are devout, you won't be able to do because your religion considers that a sin. 

I think you are the one who should answer some questions here. First of all, how do you plan to be religious without interfering in government? Do you believe in the seperation of Mosque and Republic? If so, then please explain to me, how do you fit something like Sharia law which is religiously expected of you, with secular law that might even encourage people to question religion? Or, if your religion tells you not to eat pork, how can you be part of a government that will import or export pork? That's what I want to know. I don't harrass anyone's religion and you seem like such a sweetie pie. But honestly, why don't you start by explaining yourself to us if you feel we misunderstand you? How do "kenaar miaay" with being religious versus being part of a civil secular society?

I am happy that you are happy. Let's all hold hands and smile. Of course, there is room for you here. But the REAL question is, why do you even want to be here? Don't you know "Nothing is sacred" here????

And for the record, iI beleive in freedom of religion. No one should be persecuted.

Another example

If someone wants to blame Islam for the Islamic Republic and its crimes, then they also have to put blame on secularism where dictators crimes including but not limited to torture, rape, murder, and thievery conducted by the secular men all over the world.

Have a great weekend everyone.