بی‌بی‌سی: متهم اصلی‌ هفتاد ساله شد!

بی‌بی‌سی: متهم اصلی‌ هفتاد ساله شد!
by alborz
29-Dec-2010
 

شامگاه هشتم دی ماه ۱۳۱۹، بخش فارسی بی بی سی با یک برنامه رادیویی ۱۵ دقیقه ای آغاز به کار کرد. از آن روز تا کنون، فعالیت بخش فارسی بی‌بی‌سی با حواشی و فراز و نشیب های بسیاری همراه بوده است. مستند 'اینجا لندن است' نگاهی دارد به فعالیت هفتاد ساله بخش فارسی بی‌بی‌سی.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/indepth/cluster_bbc_p...


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Farah Rusta

جناب البرز

Farah Rusta


 

با تشکر از اظهار لطفتان باید بگویم که همه دوستان از جمله جناب عالی‌ و آریانا همین قدر که جواب سلام این ناقابل را می‌دهید بر من منت می‌گذارید که به قول حافظ:


از ننگ چه گویی که مرا نام ز ننگ است

وز نام چه پرسی که مرا ننگ ز نام است 

 

  


alborz

دقیقا خانم روستا...

alborz


... حال باید دید که دوست گرامی‌ شما تا چه حد میتواند به این روند ادامه دهد - امیدوارم که باعث شرمندگی شما، با این نام و یا نامهای مستعار دیگر در این سایت، نشود.

البرز

 


Farah Rusta

مشاعره به جای مشاجره

Farah Rusta


 

  چقدر خوب بود اگر همیشه از این راه به مناظره می‌‌پرداختیم! در ادبیات ما برای هر شجری شعری هست.  

 

 

FR


alborz

ترسـم نرسـی به کــــعبه...

alborz


ترسـم نرسـی به کــــعبه ای اعــرابی

                                                کاين ره که تو می‌روی به ترکستان است

                                                                                 <<سعدی>>


Aryana-Vaeja

کافران کفر شمارند مسلمانی را

Aryana-Vaeja


بده آن راح روان پرور ریحانی را

که به کاشانه کشیم آن بت روحانی را

من بدیوانگی ار فاش شدم معذورم

کان پری صید کند دیو سلیمانی را

سر به پای فرسش در فکنم همچون گوی

چون برین در کشد آن ابلق چوگانی را

برو ای خواجه اگر زانکه بصد جان عزیز

میفروشند بخر یوسف کنعانی را

گر تو انکار کنی مستی ما را چه عجب

کافران کفر شمارند مسلمانی را

ابر چشمم چو شود سیل فشان از لاله

کوه در دوش کشد جامهٔ بارانی را

کام درویش جزین نیست که بر وفق مراد

باز بیند علم دولت سلطانی را

چشم خواجو چو سر طبلهٔ در بگشاید

از حیا آب کند گوهر عمانی را

دل این سوخته بربود و بدربان گوید

که بران از درم آن شاعر کرمانی را

 

خواجوی کرمانی


Waders

OK! the cult of paranoid Schitzophrenics

by Waders on

would make a good documentary.

 


nadeem khan

OK

by nadeem khan on

Hojatiyeh and Baha'i Sects together.

There is a lot of information with respected Wahid Azal. He knows much better than what you Haifans know. Don't forget to take his help on Hojatiyeh. You guys once blamed Wahid Azal to be a member of Hojateih. Don't forget to take his interview also. BBC please do the needful.

Allah'u'Abho


Waders

HojjatiAhh next on BBC please

by Waders on

request this one too

Jange haftaad o do mellat hameh raa ozr beneh

Chon nadidand Haghighat Rahe Afsaaneh zadand.

Here is another fav;

Ma maghz ra az eslaam bardashteem

Poost ra bahre kharaan bogzashteem 


nadeem khan

To the BBC

by nadeem khan on

Please put the poems of Mr. Alborz in the commentry of your documentary regarding the sects of Baha'is.


alborz

خشك ابری....

alborz


 خشك ابری كه بود ز آب تهی

                                                       ناید از وی صفت آب دهی

                                                                                    ( جامي )

 


nadeem khan

To the BBC

by nadeem khan on

Please produce a documentary on Baha'i Sects.

You take take help from the website of Iranian Intellegence.

This one

http://www.sectsofbahais.com


Aryana-Vaeja

تو و ملک وجاه سکندری

Aryana-Vaeja


تو و ملک وجاه سکندری
من و رسم و راه قلندری
اگر آن خوش است تو در خوری
اگر این بد است ، مرا سزا

قره العین


alborz

ذات نایافته ...

alborz


 ذات نایافته از هستی ‌بخش

                                      كی تواند كه شود هستی بخش


nadeem khan

This blog is critical but interesting

by nadeem khan on


nadeem khan

Iranians

by nadeem khan on

living in Iran know very well the aim of BBC today. The Baha'is are supporting the BBC as the supreme Haifan Body has issued a fatwa asking Baha'is to join not only BBC but all other British, American and western media companies to achieve their goal of "Entry by Troops" in Iran.

My advice for the BBC, if it really is an independent channel is that it should produce a documentary, meeting and interviewing the Baha'is of all sects, those believing and not believing in the Haifan Administration. It should invetigate if these Sects are created by the Iranian Intelligence or by whomsoever. The Haifan Baha'is claim that these Sects are created by the Iranian Intellgence. Let the world know more about the Baha'i faith, how many members are there actually, how many different ideas are there and what are the court cases and trademark issues, where is the Hugugullah money utilized, sincerely and honestly. This will help us to understand the Baha'i faith better.

All the ideas of all the Baha'i Sects must be put infront of the Iranian people and then let the Iranians decide which one to choose.

Independent invetigation of truth.

Thank you dear alborz for all the efforts you are taking.

Allah'u'Abho


Souri

Cool, Alborz jon

by Souri on

Right on!

Thanks for the great informative discussion.

And Happy New Year to you and the family.

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!


alborz

ترسـم نرسـی به کــــعبه...

alborz


ترسـم نرسـی به کــــعبه ای اعــرابی

                                                کاين ره که تو می‌روی به ترکستان است

                                                                                 <<سعدی>>


Aryana-Vaeja

So we are back to censoring uncomfortable facts...

by Aryana-Vaeja on

By deleting comments, are we, Alborz?

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9


alborz

Dear Farah Rusta...

by alborz on

...you are very welcome.

It has been my pleasure to have this exchange with you. 

Alborz


Farah Rusta

Dear Mr Alborz

by Farah Rusta on

 

I cannot thank you enough for the time and care you have taken to answer my questions. You answers were much more detailed than I had expected which is a clear sign of your informed devotion to your faith. I commend you.

I do not wish to take up your time with more questions as I already feel guilty. I only need to reassure you of my sincere intentions to enrich my knowledge of Bahai faith by asking these questions and of my neutral position in the inter-faith debate between the adherents of your faith and my good and esteemed friend Aryana. The extent and intricacies of these debates are beyond the depth that I can fathom and therefore I do not assume any position on an issue in which I am ill-informed. I hope that you gentlemen will conduct your debate in a spirit of good will and continue to enrich the publics' knowledge with your engaging arguments.

 

Kind regards 

 

FR 


alborz

Dear Farah Rusta,

by alborz on

I will attempt to respond to your inquiry as best as I can based on my understanding.

As there are no clergy in the Baha'i Faith, the institutions of the Baha'i Faith, are called upon to deal with such matters when requested and when warranted. These institutions, made up of elected members of the community, are there to provide guidance and ultimately protect the Faith.  Involvement in partisan politics is considered as divisive and an activity contrary to the spirit of the Faith - a Faith that teaches that the age maturity for Mankind has arrived and that each person is responsible for their actions before God.  In the absence of a clergy, the unity in purpose is preserved by the adherents of the Faith and its institutions.  In this regard, involvement in partisan politics is without doubt a distraction and a contrary force to its purpose - the coming together of the people of the world.  The evidence for this is clear and the pace palpable if one's perspective focuses on trends and not the inevitable processes of disintegration which needs to precede that of integration.

On the question of whether involvement in politics is a matter of personal interpretation for Baha'is, my understanding is as follows.   Baha’is are enjoined to serve the communities in which they live, be it at a neighborhood, city, national or an international level.  The mechanisms and pathways for fulfilling this obligation are numerous and each person should evaluate these for consistency with the fundamental verities of their Faith. If they are uncertain about the specific instance, they are encouraged to refer to the Baha’i institutions for guidance.  The guidance may provide a very specific response or provide parameters which should be considered in the specific case.  So, while the interpretation begins with the individual, it may extend to the institutions if the individual seeks such guidance.

Your next point was related to “public monitoring and regulation”.  There are no “public monitoring and regulating” processes that govern the lives of Baha’is.   We all know how well that works and how it has decimated the fabric of society.  The Writings of the Baha’i Faith emphasize individual responsibility and encourage “asking of questions”.   Should a Baha’i engage in an activity that violates or can be interpreted to violate the principles of the Faith, then the institutions are obligated to inquire and provide guidance in this regard.

Your next series of questions related to specific roles such political activist, leader or representative without being affiliated to any political order.  Well, my understanding is that Baha’is are to expend their energy and time in serving humanity by redefining the order of the day – this is ultimately what Baha’is believe to be the answer to a failing world. Baha’is believe that the world does not need another political activist, leader or representative in the sense that I believe you are thinking.  Yet, if there was a way for a Baha’i to serve in any of these capacities without subjugating their beliefs and principles then technically there is no injunction that I am aware of that would prohibit them from such engagement.  This, I believe, to be a “farz mahal”, as I don’t know of any process today that a political activist or leader or representative can use without first denouncing the viewpoint, platform or integrity of another.  So, in practice this would not be possible.  This would also hold true for political journalism as the analysis would by definition be tainted by political biases – which Baha’is are enjoined to transcend.  Again, the specifics are important in each case, and what I have shared here are my general impressions and understanding.

With regard to obedience to the laws of the land and whether it would apply if the law banned the Baha’i Faith, the answer is found in the evidence.  In the case of Iran, the Baha’i Faith is not banned, because if it was banned, it would first have to be acknowledged as a Faith.   After the execution of the members of Baha’i institutions and many others in Iran (over 200), the highest administrative body of the Baha’i Faith disbanded these institutions.  In their place, individuals were appointed to coordinate the needs of this oppressed community and provide a measure of relief while the atrocities committed against them took the form of a ‘secret pogrom’.  These individuals were referred to as the ‘Yaran’ and they now are now serving a 10 year prison term under charges of ‘mohareb’ and ‘spying’ – not for being a member of a banned Faith.  If I did not answer your question in this regard, please let me know. I am sure that you did not mean whether a Baha’i would deny their Faith if ordered to do so by the state as the answer to this question is also found in the evidence.  Thousands have died for their belief and every Baha’i in Iran lives with the belief that their sacrifices will fulfill the bright future that is destined for Iran as the Cradle of their Faith.

Regarding the question of whether the Baha’i Faith is a non-pacifist Faith, Baha’u’llah specifically enjoined the Baha’is not to take up arms in the defense of their Faith.  This was a distinct break with the laws of Islam.  They can certainly defend themselves when their lives are in mortal danger.  If enlisted in the army, they are to seek non-combat roles, but if this is not possible then they are not prohibited in fulfilling their obligations in war.   Being a conscientious objector is not a right in many armies, but if it is then they are free to exercise that right.  My understanding is that Baha’is fought in the Iran / Iraq war.

If I missed anything here in the midst of the points that you raised, let me know. These were all very good questions, and my responses are not to be considered as authoritative.  The Writings and laws of the Baha’i Faith are to be read and interpreted together and this is a journey that every Baha’i undertakes and lasts a life time.  I invite you to refer to the Writings in Persian and English for further reading.  Investigation through the viewpoint of others may be easy but nothing worthwhile or accurate is ever achieved easily.

Best,

Alborz 

 


Farah Rusta

More questions please?

by Farah Rusta on

 

Dear Alborz 

 

Thank you for your kind and comprehensive reply to my question. Your answer has now raised a few more questions which is perhaps the nature of a good and engaging forum. I must shift the focus of my questions from the BBC to Bahai faith which is a much more interesting and important subject. But to put a temporary closure on the subject of the BBC Persian service, let me just say that I am beyond convinced, with documented evidence, that this service is not and has never been independent of the governmental influence and that and all the protestations to the contrary by their staff amounts to a Christmas pantomime which is popular this time of the year. If I get time I shall dedicate a whole bog to this subject at a later time.

Going back to the question of Bahais and politics let me see if Ihave understood you correctly and please correct me if I am mistaken. From what you wrote in your reply to me it appears that getting involved in politics for followers of your faith is a matter of (personal) interpretation and not a publicly monitored or regulated practice. To begin with I don't define political activities just by party politics. In other words one may be a political activist, leader, representative without adherence to any political order. He or she may operate in legislative or executive capacity. Am I right to understand that it is fine for a Bahai  to become a candidate for a political post on an independent platform? Is political journalism and analysis of political events which would inevitably entail influencing the public considered  as political non-involvement? Also you mentioned the Bahais obligation to abide the law of the land in which they reside. What would be a Bahai's obligation if the law of the land outlaws the Bahai faith? Lastly is the Bahai faith a non-pacifist faith? In other words are there situations in which the followers of the faith may take up arms, as conscripts or otherwise, and fight for a cause to which they may or may not subscribe? Thank you for your patience with me and your time.

 

Dear Aryana

May I welcome your presence in our midst. I am fully aware of your critique of the Bahai faith but I believe in a transparent and democratic environment we must hear both sides of the argument. Your immense knowledge of many fields, including, but not limited to, religion, philosophy, literature, Sufism and languages is beyond my depth and most commendable. The fact that you are a monarchist as well is the icing on the cake :)

 

Dear Roozbeh

The Persian service of the BBC has received much more credit than it deserves for its involvement in the revolution of 1979. They acted only as communicator and coordinator. The blame, however, must be squarely placed on the people who tuned in.

 

 

FR


Roozbeh_Gilani

well, I don't know.....

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

Mr Arya_whatever, what you are bla blaing about. I dont know if you are yet another paid agent of the islamist regime attacking Iranians who do not conform to your sick hojattieh ideology, or just a very mentally sick individual, or both. Whichever the case, I feel sorry for you.

I am in solidarity with every section of Iranian society who are being oppressed by the islamist regime. That includes my Bahaii Brothers and sisters who are being targetted in the most shameful manner by the sick ideology of velayate faghih and it's offspring, the hojjatieh cult.

Long live Democracy and freedom for all Iranians regardless of their race, gender, religioun and ethnicity.

Down with fascist islamist regime and all it's cyber agents.

 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


alborz

Dear Roozbeh....

by alborz on

.... your observations are heartening to read as this recycled diatribe is being recognized for what it is and evident to all now.

Cheers,

Alborz


Aryana-Vaeja

Dumb Marxists! 32 years ago it was Khomeini. Today it is Bahais

by Aryana-Vaeja on

Bahais indeed have a professional clergy. They just call it something else. It is called the Institution of the Learned and the Velayate Faqih x 9 system they call the uhj. Of course it doesn't surprise  me why left-over Marxists such as yourself dig these Stalinists.  You dig it because their apparatchick based bureaucratic totalitarian cult must remind you alot of the good old days of the Red Commisars and May Day parades at Red Square. And where personal business and collective interest is concerned, yeah, you Marxists can talk after yeilding your personal business to the collective interest  of Iran empowering reactionary obscurantist fascist theocratic lunatics as a result of such yeilding! You losers did  it 32 years ago by selling out the nation to Khomeini and his gang of thugs. I'll be damned if I let you losers do it again, this time with the ultimate wolves in sheeps clothing: the Haifan Bahais.  

My beef is not only with the Haifan Bahai cultists on this site, as our little personal tête-à-tête on Youtube some time ago should've proven to you. I'm out for the scalp of the entire Haifan based Bahai organization, root and stinking British colonialist lackey branch, and to cut these greedy, corrupt, lying Stalinist power-hungry wolves in sheeps clothing a new orifice and from ever gaining a foothold and power base in a post-mullocratic Iran. That is what I am about unashamedly. So take your Hojjatiyeh bogeyman, Comrade, and go blow that contrived McCarthyist tripe out of Friedriech Engles' Das Kapital; that is, unless you aren't actually a Haifan Bahai BIA operative yourself pretending to be something else for your cult's PR purposes on this site as you people have done here and elsewhere over and over again.

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9


Roozbeh_Gilani

Why just BBC? I bet Marconi himself was a Bahaii!!!

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

and the serious  bone that you have with Bahaiis on this site, causing you to write all these hysterical, long comments and blogs about them has nothing to do with This:

"Baha'is have no priests and place the responsibility for spiritual interpretation entirely in the hands of individuals. Many of their historical texts are critical of traditional Muslim clerics and the power they hold over the populace."

or this:

"Founded in 1953 as a specifically anti-Bahá'í organization by a charismatic Shiite Muslim cleric, the Hojjatieh Society has today re-emerged in Iran as an influential if secretive faction that has been linked in news articles and web blogs with the current Iranian administration.

During the 1979 Iranian revolution, the Society played an important role in stirring animosity against Bahá'ís. However, in part because of differences in theology—among other things the Hojjatieh believe a truly Islamic state cannot be established until the return of the 12th Imam—the Society fell into disfavor and was banned by the regime in 1984.

Outside observers have connected the Society’s re-emergence with the return of hardliners to positions of power in the government, including the president who has frequently stated his expectation that the 12th Imam will return soon. "

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Aryana-Vaeja

Well said Farah! Bahaism = Tool of British colonial interests

by Aryana-Vaeja on

The answer is very simple because Bahaism is and has been an agent of British imperialist interests against Iran's from the day it was founded in 1867. The so-called non-involvement of Bahais in politics is a completely vacuous and transparent piece of doublespeak and empty propaganda. Bahais have involved themselves in all manner of partisan political activities continuously and without interuption, and from the very top of their organization, and where Great Britian is concerned they have been an intrinsic part of higher British colonial policy throughout. Abbas Effendi's knighting and the engagement of Bahais with the BBC (especially in light of the BBC's central role in destabilizing the Shah and bringing Khomeini to power) is only the tip of a much larger iceberg. Anyone who believes otherwise or who thinks the political activities of the Bahais are blameless, needs to seriously consider the following:


http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home

1. (Top Secret) British Government Foreign Countries Report (no.56) 16th November 1921

2. APPRECIATION OF THE ATTACHED EASTERN REPORT NO. LXX (May 1918)

Then see,

HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfuss (New Benjamin Franklin House: New York, 1980) pp.117-118 (Pdf pages 73-74)

http://www.wlym.com/pdf/iclc/hostage.pdf

&

http://www.archive.org/details/HostageToKhomeini

...Today the Bahai
cult is hated in Iran, and is considered correctly to be an arm of the
British Crown. During the destabilization of the Shah in 1978, it was
widely reported that in several instances the
Bahai
cult secretly funded the Khomeini Shi’ite movement. In part, the money
would have flowed through the cult’s links to the same international
‘human rights’ organizations, such as Amnesty International, that
originally sponsored the anti-Shah movement in Iran. These movements
also derive from the “one world” currents associated with the Bahais
since the early 1900s. (If any Iranians have been misled on the question
of the Bahais by the supposed antipathy of Khomeini’s clique to the
Bahais, it should be noted that the
Bahai cultists often deliberately encouraged anti-Bahai activities as camouflage)...

Also see pp. 115-116 (Pdf page 72)

Note as well,
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...

Reference:
PALESTINE

EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.

ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF PALESTINE

WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE

Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine

MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922

Quote

"...Sir
'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe and
America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E. for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early days of
the Occupation....."

See,
Wellesley Tudor Pole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole

&

http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9


Souri

Roozbeh jon

by Souri on

This is almost true for every country. The English were more inclined to believe the American press about Diana's death and the American were more inclined to believe what the European were saying about the 9/11 event.
There's restriction in the medias of all countries, of course each one to some degrees.
I don't believe in BBC's Independence from the foreign policies of the  Britain . I think BBC has always played a big role in guiding the line of information for the middle eastern countries, and this, always in the final interest of the Britain.

As for the bahais involved in BBC radio, I think Alborz response is absolutely comprehensible and precise.

 

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!


Roozbeh_Gilani

BBC is probably the most trusted and listened to.....

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

News media in Iran. This is a fact we can not deny. So the real issue is not if the BBC is an agent of British Imperialism or employes bahaiis (so what if they do???!!!!). The real question is why Iranians both during the Pahlavis and Islamist regime trust a foreign news agncy many times more than their own government run news agency. And of course we know the answer to that question, dont we?! 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


alborz

Dear Farah Rusta

by alborz on

Thank you for your comments.

In posting this blog I fully expected to elicit comments that went beyond reporting an anniversay in the Persian service of the BBC.

The title of this blog "motahem asli" is mentioned in the opening remarks of this documentary and as you mentioned, it also acknowledges the timing of the start of its broadcasts with circumstances in Iran and the start of WWI.  Clearly the producers of this documentary are not hiding either the perception nor the facts.   This transparency was one of the reasons I was comfortable with posting this blog - which after all was nothing but reporting a fact - I added no commentary of my own.

Your kind regards for the Baha'i community is acknowledged, however, I am not aware of anything that prohibits Baha'is to serve as journalists, translators, producers and technicians for the BBC or any other broadcaster.  Each Baha'i is responsible for determining how they engage and whether their engagement violates the principles of their Faith.  Some indeed consider the BBC the 'the real culprit' of the past, present and perhaps the future. Others don't, as evidenced by other comments on this blog. 

Baha'is are forbidden to involve themselves in partisan politics - which is divisive, by definition. Your assertion that any Baha'i that worked or is working at the BBC is violating this injunction is an interpretation that stems from a particular view towards the BBC.  For that matter it can be directed towards all Persian service broadcasters such as VOA, RFE (Radio Farda), and others.

While some may consider enlisting in the military a political act others don't.  It all depends on one's perspective towards the regime that it serves.  Case in point is that Baha'i youth are obligated to enlist in the military forces of IRI - the very same youth that are denied university education and civil rights.  They serve with distinction because obedience to the laws of the country is a fundamental principle of their faith. So when they are obligated to serve, they serve irrespective of their individual or collective plight within the country in which they are oppressed.

I have had much respect for you and it is now even greater due to the sincerity and fidelity in which you have expressed your views in this regard.  I hope that we can all get past the "guilt by association" phase in the evolution of our civic discourse.  When we consistently recognize the inherent nobility and dignity in others we will engage in discourses such as this with openness and without judgement.

Sincerely,

Alborz