Karim Lahiji on Bahais & Human Rights

2011 Friends of Persian Culture Conference, Chicago

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vildemose

 who is Karim

by vildemose on

 who is Karim Baghdadi??

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt


aynak

Thread summary so far

by aynak on

Iqbal Latif writes:

"Let's get back to the great intellect that this speech highlights and articulates so well; a force detour from Plato to article 6 of French revolution to 'International Declaration of Human Rights' and other UN declarations that Iran is a signatory off.

A great nation should have a great mind set, why Dr Karim speech should be policed in any way but as an outstanding work of academic excellence."

First of all as an occasional contributor, I would like to welcome you to this site Iqbal, I have read several of your post so far and your *reasoning* is a welcome addition to this great site.

As far as the questions you asked:

Dr.Lahiji has been an unequiovocal advocate of --Human Rights--. Unfortunately, part of our culture has not fully appreciated, or even understood, this, as obvious by some of the remarks made. For instance D.K believes since Mr.Lahiji is talking to a Bahai audience, he should focus on Bahai's human right violation by IR. It is obviously not suprising, because when someone is advocating to a return to good old days, he would not be able to comprehend, the true meaning fo human rights.

So if someone is being tortured, his first question would be, who is torturing whom?! Not an out right condemnation regardless. To him the concept is not bad, only who does it. If it is Shah or Savak it is ok, if it is Islamic Regime, it is bad.

The very fact that DK starts out by a lie and non-functioning link and then tries to change the subject of the discussion is proof, that human rights has never been his issue, only a tool to selectively use if it fits his purpose.

Any other nation in the world, would be proud to have the like of Lahiji at the prominent place he has in the human rights commission, and giving such a brilliant speech, but not this folks. the answer to why should be obvious.


Iqbal Latif

Democracy is neither Islamic nor Christian!

by Iqbal Latif on

In all Islamic countries when they deny the 'Rights of Man' they charge the accused of espionage for Jews or Imperialists, forget it; please I beg your pardon. 'Democratic Islamic Republic' is a biggest lie; Democracy is not Islamic or Christian- Democracy is democracy! When free expression is denied humanity is denied. Dignity of man- I have rights as a man- when you take my rights away you take my humanity away!! So correct, does this really need heated 'self depracating discussions' to see the merit in this line of argument?

Let's get back to the great intellect that this speech highlights and articulates so well; a force detour from Plato to article 6 of French revolution to 'International Declaration of Human Rights' and other UN declarations that Iran is a signatory off.

A great nation should have a great mind set, why Dr Karim speech should be policed in any way but as an outstanding work of academic excellence.

Human social contract of peace with each other is based on dignity of man and intricate relationship of 'being' with the innate basic human rights i.e. to equality; egalitarianism and treatment of each other as equal. When that basic decorum is deprived, it has to be opposed and damned.

Iran is a great nation mired in turpitude of governance under a decadent theocratic model that has no place in the contemporary world.

Iran's contributions to codified law, so as to dispense justice, are poignant, evidenced by the extensive corpus of pre-Islamic texts on religious and scientific laws.

The ancestors of the Persians, the ancient Zoroastrians, covered texts from the laws applying to soldiers to those on the cultivation of soil. It is perhaps the tragedy that a few "deranged ideologically motivated" leaders have wasted the histological traditions of Iran in less than three decades, the richness of thousands of years trampled in few years.

The first 'Iranian rulers' were lawgivers and now contrast it to today and one sees the 21st century Iran under clergy as the biggest violator of human rights. Its post-revolution decline from bastion and cradle of civilization to the lowest rung of civilized nation's ladder is scandalous and disgusting.

To live in peace without coercion is an indispensable human right; terror campaigns violate the sacred trust of "live and let others live" that has been evolved over millenniums. Law started in Iran in the beginnings of human history, however, this rich inheritance has been wretchedly shattered by the in-attendance clerical tyranny in Tehran. Democratic Islamic republic is a biggest lie; Democracy is neither Islamic nor Christian! Democracy is democracy! When free expression is denied humanity is denied. Dignity of man- I have rights as a man- when you take my rights away you take my humanity away!!

Seeing a rich traditional country like Iran deviating to these low levels of turpitude of governance is incredible. We need to reject this grave attack on "human civility and dignity" by a handful of ideological thugs. It is the string of "civility" that connects our human village together, this source of respect towards each other is a fountain of wellspring of mankind, and Iran has definitely been the source of the universal tradition of civility. Efforts to erase the minorities under the charges of "misguided group... whose affiliation and association with world Zionism is a clear fact" from the Iranian mosaic are gruesome.

Cyrus the Great granted that right, and literally figures like Rumi and Saadi have structured within the Iranian genre by saying: "The sons of Adam are limbs of one another Having been created of one essence." "When the calamity of time afflicts one limb, The other limbs cannot remain at rest."A great commanding and authoritative speech by a global champion of Human Right causes.

A great commanding and authoritative speech by a global champion of Human Right causes.


anglophile

وقتي كريم بغدادي دلال حقوق بشر مي شود

anglophile


ارگان رسمي سازمان سيا نحوه ارتباط عناصر ضدانقلاب با گزارشگر حقوق بشر عليه ايران را مشخص كرد. راديو فردا ضمن مصاحبه اي با عبدالكريم لاهيجي (كريم بغدادي از عناصر وابسته به گروهك تروريستي منافقين) نحوه ارتباط و اتصال با احمد شهيد را جويا شد و اين وكيل اجاره اي منافقين نيز شيوه ارتباط و انتقال اطلاعات را بازگو كرد.

//www.kayhannews.ir/900602/2.htm#other207

NO COMMENT :))


Mash Ghasem

چون قافیه تنگ آید، انگل به جفنگ آید

Mash Ghasem


آنهم جفنگیات نوبر "کیهانی".

anglophile

كريم بغدادي

anglophile


این خبر (کهنه) اونقدر با مزه بود که حیفم اومد بازگو نکنم:

حقوقدان و فعال صلح نروژي با انتشار كتابي اعلام كرد كه بيش از نيمي از جوايز صلح نوبل كه از سال 1946 ميلادي تاكنون اهدا شده است از جمله جايزه شيرين عبادي، برخلاف شرايط و خواسته هاي «آلفرد نوبل» بوده است.

//www.kayhannews.ir/890507/2.htm#other209


Tabarzin

Call me whatever you want...

by Tabarzin on

And say hello to the Facebook Israeli Jewish Lobby you closely associate with for me and tell them their facebook surveillance of peoples accounts and friends is noted.


G. Rahmanian

Dear DK:

by G. Rahmanian on

Maybe some day soon Iranians will also host both your bosses to celebrate their victory over the murderous IR regime!!!


Darius Kadivar

You forgot to Mention my other employer David Cameron ...

by Darius Kadivar on

But note I only accept checks in Euros ...

 


 

Heroes Welcome - In pictures: Cameron and Sarkozy in Libya

 (bbc)

 

Take Care Tabarzin ...  or Should I say Nima The Facebook Bully ? ... 

 

 

 


Roozbeh_Gilani

Dear "flagger", unless your name is "khamenei" or "Ahmadinezhad"

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

Please read my comment again and tell me which part of my comment is insultive to anyone?

Well, Dear G. Rahmanian the flag was removed by the admin. Only he knows the islamist regime mozdoor  who flagged my comment. I and you can have a good guess :) 

 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


G. Rahmanian

Why is Mr. Gilani's Comment Flagged?

by G. Rahmanian on

Since when telling the truth is an abusive act? Shouldn't those who flag others for fun or out of malice be punished?


Tabarzin

Sooner than later

by Tabarzin on

The Western bankrollers of the Assads, Qadaffis, Khameneis, Mobaraks and company, together with their assorted agents, will also have their heads on the proverbial block. The August riots in the UK were just a sneak preview of that! 


Roozbeh_Gilani

"bunch of primitive criminals" indeed.

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

How can we expcect the rights of religious minorities, such as bahaiis to be respected, whilst the majority of population are flogged like animals for daring to demand their own and their fellow citizens' basic human rights?

I honestly believe that the days of despots of any shape and form are over. The people's demands for democracy and social justice is simply unstable. I have no doubt that khamenei/ahmadinejad duo and their islamist fascist regime togther with their syrian buddy assad, will end up like Saddam, Mobarak and Gaddafi. Just a matter of time......,     

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


پندارنیک

I'd read..........

by پندارنیک on

.........Tabarzin's to Kadivar..............one more time............


Tabarzin

Kadivar

by Tabarzin on

 

 
On the other hand in the case of Libya, it seems that not interfering
would have on the contrary been condemnable from a moral standpoint.

Oh, yes, NATO involved itself in Libya and ended up killing 60,000 people, trashing Libya and handing it over to Islamists and Anglo-European oil companies so to prevent Ghadaffi from killing a few hundred. There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you work for the current French government and are a spokesperson for Sarkozy!


Arj

Shame!

by Arj on

It's a shame that people like Lahiji have to observe the travesty of justice from abroad while our judiciary is run by a bunch of primitive criminals! 


Darius Kadivar

Not to mention his weak understanding of European history

by Darius Kadivar on

Not to mention his weak understanding of European history which explains his erroneous conclusions

Notably confusing Europe's Colonial History with it's Involvement in two World Wars as a sign of Political "Estebdad".

Waging War on other nations (however condemnable in itself and which I also personally abhor) is not a sign of being or not a democracy. Just look at America in Iraq or Afghanistan ...

On the other hand in the case of Libya, it seems that not interfering would have on the contrary been condemnable from a moral standpoint.

So where do we draw the line ? ...

I don't claim to have the answer and I am not certain Mr. Lahiji has one either ...

Besides I did not know that apart from France's illegal occupation by the Nazis during WWII, that Either France or Great Britain were living under dictatorships or "Estebdad" in the first half of the 20th century ?

Democracy is first and foremost a national concern and that of a nation's civil society in it's desire to acquire a system of government which respects individual rights and freedoms. It has nothing to do with that nation's behavior in the international Arena ( ie: engaging in Colonial Wars for instance). Even if it's behavior on the International Scene may in fact have an effect on it's domestic policies.

Often a war has precisely been a pretext for regimes immediately born out of a Revolution to use the "external" threat as a pretext to suppress dissent inside.

This was indeed the case for France which installed it's reign of Terror because it came under attack by foreign forces hostile to the French Republic.

To save their Republic demagogues such as Robespierre and subsequently Napoleon ( who was a Jacobin) presented themselves as the providential hero and that is where the Cult of Personality established itself with the Commité de Salut Public :

Historians Simon Schama Rebuttla of Slavoj Zizek ( who also seems to be a favorite ANN TELECTUAL of Many BBC Persian Intelligentsia lately ) endorsement of Robespierre's Controversial Legacy

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=eerWFfKlOSc&feature=player_embedded

That is precisely the pretext the IRI also used after being attacked by Saddam so as to Safeguard it's Republci:

SARBAZ: Fereidoun Farrokhzad helps child soldiers of Iran Iraq War

So as one historian once said the worst solution is to attack a nation in time of revolution for it is the best way of keeping it in power. And Western "Democracies" made the same mistake in supporting Saddam's illegal attack on Iran.

Had it not been the case I wonder if this "Republic" of yours would have survived given the widening internal turmoils and disillusionments with their new founded Republic ...

If on the otherhand Mr. Lahiji is speaking about Colonialism ( particularly in the course of the 20th Century and not that of the mid 19th) then that is an entirely different debate because it did not have a direct impact on the civil liberties of the citizens of these European Countries but rather on the lives of people and civilizations alien they chose to dominate.

That can be criticized and legitimately debated separately to the subject of what this conference was supposed to be about ( but to which Mr. Lahiji seems to have diverted from in his presentation, particularly if he was hoping to draw parrallels between the Shah's Rule/Coup and British and American so called Colonialism which I reject as a valid argument ) but has absolutely nothing to do with Europe's Democratic evolution or the Ideas which shaped The West's Democratic Mindsets and Institutions:

GOOD READ: All You Need to Know About The Enlightment Philosophers

HISTORY OF IDEAS: Ian Davidson on Voltaire's "English Exile"

If on the other hand he is speaking about the rise of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy ... Well neither of these two countries were genuinely models of Democracy in the first place.

In addition he mentions a Medieval Social Contract the Magna Carta and then Jumps onto the Universal Declaration of Human Rights after the French Revolution but forgets to mention the most groundbreaking document which influenced the Constitutions of both the America and France after their respective Revolutions: The British Bill of Rights

RESTORATION: Britain's 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688 and the 'Bill of Rights'

Lahiji's Presentation was at best wishful thinking as to his hopes of achieving a genuinely democratic State in the future which is after all the common goal and desire pursued by any genuine democrat ( and I am sure he is one at heart) whether that "democrat" is a Jomhurykhah ( aka Republican) or Mashrouteh Khah (Constitutional Monarchist).

So Indeed with such a weak understanding of the evolution of democratic thought in the Western World from which he seemed to seek inspiration from No Wonder he Screwed Up His Constitution ...

He would have certainly benefited from the insights of Nader Naderpour in this regard :

Nader Naderpour: How Rennaissance inspired Iran's Constitutional Revolution

SOURCES OF FURY:Nader Naderpour on origins of IRI's "Death Slogans" towards US and Israel

But feel fee to call me an ignorant shahollahi for merely asking blunt questions.

My Humble Opinion,

DK


Jahanshah Javid

Essence of human rights

by Jahanshah Javid on

Lahiji's words of wisdom should be textbook material for every student learning about the essence of human rights and dignity. It's a bit too late for the adults whose brains are already wired tight, with no room left to change.

When we have a state with a government -- and citizens -- who protect/respect the basic rights of all to freedom without religious, ethnic, gender, social, economic bias... then we'll have something. Until then...


Darius Kadivar

Lahiji's Personality or HR activism has nothing to do with what

by Darius Kadivar on

Lahiji's Personality or commendable Human Rights activism are not the subject of my criticisms but his historical and political outlook presented in this very conference on our nation's century old struggle for democracy.

He spent more time bashing the previous constitution than speaking about the plight of the Bahais as the title seems to suggest. Added to many erroneous generalizations and distortions on European History.

He today advocates a Secular Republic, I advocate a Constitutional Monarchy.

IC readers are Not Kids to be lectured on what they should or not listen or watch.

Wanting to avoid debating openly on this issue is not going to help your own cause but only confirms your own Stubborn and narrow minded attitude in general.

Proving if needed that Your Jomhurykhah so called Intelligentsia has nothing to offer but bankrupt complaints and wishful thinking but alas no solutions ...


aynak

I would like to invite all to please listen to Lahiji's speech

by aynak on

and not allow this 24/7 spammer to hijack another thread by repeated pointless irrelevant links.  Minutes 19~24 addresses all the points this spamer raises, but it would be a loss not to listen to the whole speech.  We are where we are for a reason, and Lahiji makes it crystal clear.


Darius Kadivar

Aynak It's YOUR Jomhurykhah Revolution is it Not ?

by Darius Kadivar on

This Republic is the Product OF YOUR POOR CHOICE !

Khomeiny’s Hichi

Not Mine !

37 DAYS: Documentary on Shapour Bakhtiar's Premiership (MANOTO TV)

So Don't Blame Us Constitutionalists for it's Wrong Outcome.

Accept Accountability For Your Own Shortcomings before Looking for Excuses as if YOUR Revolution was Highjacked !

Footage of the 1979 referendum of the Islamic Republic of Iran

We Have been Accountable for our Shortcomings ...

ROYAL ACCOUNTABILITY: Crown Prince Reza Praises Mossadegh's Patriotism (ANDISHEH TV)

ROYAL ACCOUNTABILITY: Crown Prince Reza on Torture During His Father's Rule

Crown Prince Reza on importance of "Checks and Balances" of future regime

You have Only Been Outspoken to the degree of for Your Namak Nashnas Complaints ...

COMPLAINING JOMHURYKHAH: What Have the Pahlavis EVER Done For Us ? ;0)

So don't Expect me to Apologize for my Constitutionalist Convictions !


aynak

Re: I only stated. ....

by aynak on

Anahid Jan,

Sorry, I did not mean to get you invovled.

I hope our fellow ham mihan listen to this very powerful speech by Dr.Lahiji.   It is just that when Mr.Kadivar, tries to hijack a thread focusing on human rights, to turn it around for his Saltant-Talaby progpoganda and obvious distoration  of facts, it makes one wonder about his motives.   Had he wrote a critique of the content of the speech by Dr.Lahiji, we could have focus on future and present in the past, which is what this speech is all about.  


Anahid Hojjati

Aynak, I only stated my opinion about Lahiji

by Anahid Hojjati on

I rather not get in middle of comment exchange between you and Mr. Kadivar. But since I was in Iran during those years and Lahiji was well respected, that is why I spoke. I think in general, it is good to be forward looking in personal life and political ideas. Do I always adhere to my own advice? not always but it is a good practice.


aynak

This is a lie no matter how much you try to spin it Mr.Kadivar

by aynak on


 
Your wrote:

"Trying to Undo the Constitution He Drafted in the First Place ?

by Darius Kadivar on

VOA Doh Roozeh Aval with Abdol Karim Lahidji on the IRI Constitution"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In the above, you imply that Lahiji is trying to "Undo" the constitution he drafted.   In reality, the constitution he drafted, never became law.   So what is he trying to undo?   If this is not a lie what is it?  Then  you put this link that goes to no where.   What was it supposed to show?

Then you "backup" your lies by saying you are trying to challenge my truth?

Dear Nahid,

THis is typical of this indvidual, where he makes false allegation, and then mixes in his lame brain washing technique, with his solution.   The connection between what "Crown Prince Reza Pahlavis" had to say about  checks and balance with this topic, is one only made in the brain of Mr.Kadivar.

So funny, the only  link that was relevant in his post does not even work?!?

What is it about Lahiji that is bothering Kadivar so much?   That Lahiji  got beaten for defending his clients rights (doesn't that ring a bell)? Or that he has been a true advocate of human rights, regardless of it was Shah or Rahbar (really the same despost) in power?



Darius Kadivar

Lastly Aynak I don't Spread lies I Challenge YOUR Truths

by Darius Kadivar on

So Keep Your Insults to yourself !

Before Advocating Revolution he should have studied the French Revolution More Carefully ...

VIRTUE IN TERROR: Maximilien Robespierre and the Reign of Terror (BBC)

It would have probably avoided repeating the same mistakes ...

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: IRI's Reign of Terror Begins (BBC Report 1979)


Darius Kadivar

Aynak Jaan Not Our Fault if You Folks Screwed Up ...

by Darius Kadivar on


Anahid Hojjati

I don't believe Lahiji is responsible for IRI constitution

by Anahid Hojjati on

Abdolkarim Lahiji was one of those well-known guys during revolution. He was against Shah and tried to help in bringing about a better government. However, as Aynak pointed out, " The constitution Lahiji drafted had nothing to do with the *revised* consitution that was shoved down our throat by Khomanee. "


aynak

Re: Trying to spread lies again?

by aynak on

 

The link that is supposed to backup your statement does not work. Mr. Kadivar.  Your spam links are unrelated to the content of the *lie* you are trying to spread.   The constitution Lahiji drafted had nothing to do with the *revised* consitution that was shoved down our throat by Khomanee.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNF5OfhSVoM

Minute 3~+ why he did not want any position in the government of Bazargan, why he wanted to be a lawyer ......

Minute 8 on defending his client and getting beaten up by Savak for doing his job as a lawyer.

This is a typical attempt by a Saltant-Talab to distort

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XArG9uiskXs&feature...

Minute  1:30 about constitution of Islamic Regime.  Our law (constitution he wrote)  was not accepted, and we said this constittion (meaning Islamic constitution) will take us back.