Current Events

Most welcome Souri!

And I admired your verve for speaking up. I sense that, like me,  you are more inclined to arts and culture than to politics. Except when it matters...and then your formidable salahshoor side comes out.

Civil Liberties 101

Civil liberties are upheld by the law, e.g. The Bill of Rights, as a protection of all citizens within a society, not by a terrorist entity lobbying government officials.

If they want their "rights" then they should go to a court of law. 

Ari jon

I don't mind if he wants to call me Suri.

But I loved your observation and truly admired your analysis.

genious!

VPK

This observation in an  FBI report on MEK--which I summarized in this blog-- may partly answer your question as to why we don't see their IC users say they are MEK members.

"The situation is very analogous to the Italian mafia in which a “made
man” of a La Cosa Nostra Family is very important and though individuals
in the organization may be soldiers for a “made man” the interviewee
may not view himself as a [MEK] member or “made man.”" So they may not be trying to deceive you; they simply don't regard themselves as worthy of the honor of the label "MEK member" until they have achieved a higher rank.

MK: If you are dyslexic, you have my apologies. This apology sets an example for you so that you can feel free to let Souri know that you meant no insult . If you are not dyslexic, an "oops I'm sorry, didn't notice it" is still in order. This way the rudiments of civil behavior will be observed. 

Also, caution is in order when you defend (or variations thereof)  the MEK. The cult mindset uses any reason to deify and worship. To wit,  one of your supporters has now comapred you to a Charles Darwin and a Stephen Hawkins just becasue you repeatedly misspelled a name.

Dear Oon Yaroo

First of all thank you for you honesty and openness I respect that. We agree you do not support MEK. Neither does MK according to his own words. Then who does and why don't we have a MEK representative on IC.

I support unions in America. I am not a member of a union but I do support them. I have not gone to their rallies; but voted for pro-union politicians and sometimes donated to their cause. I used to be anti-union for years but changed my mind.

Truthseeker9: you need to seek the truth a bit more objectively

And you don't need to go far or search hard to learn the truth. Just read the condescending remarks by the Dr. in this very thread or how he accuse those who have not jumped on this bandwagon of being agents of some sort. It is literary pathetic.

But I won't hold my breath for that objectivity.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

VPK Jon: I don't support MEK but I did attend the DC rally

You can see me in the vido @6:20. I took the bus ride all the way from Arkansas. You can call me a sympathizer.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8nMradlXhI&feature...

Dear People

I have read post by Truthseeker; OonYaroo; MK and many others. My problem is that no one comes out an openly supports MEK. On the other hand some claim that MEK has this "huge" following both inside and outside Iran.

Why do I not see any of this support. That leaves three possible things:

• They don't have much support hence no one on IC.
• Their supporters chose not to post on IC.
• Their supporters do post on IC but don't admit it.

I am not making any accusations. It just sounds odd to me that with so many supposed members not one person on IC admits to being them!

dear Masoud

I was trying to make that point, obviously it did not come across. You are are capable of defending yourself, but it is frustrating for silent readers to see personal attacks as comments in healthy debate. I have been following the MEK discussions, and first you were accused of being an MEK supporter, then this handicap of mis spelling as a diagnosis for incompetence, and now I have just read another comment elsewhere that you "lack either knowledge, intelligent and/or sincerity" for holding a certain view. In my opinion these are personal attacks. 

Mojahedin are Terrorists

Souri

What you, Time Magazine, December 14, 2006, and Wikipedia got wrong is this:

French anti-terrorist force happens to be pro Mojahedin. What you saw as a simple arrest of a head of an Islamic/Marxist terrorist cult was in fact its attempt to host Maryam and her entourage in some French police headquarters for a few days. How do I know this? Because I was there watching the proceedings and heard the police chanting

Maryam mehre taban

Mibarimesh be zendan

Who am I? I am "a very honest man"(to borrow Prof. M. Kazemzadeh's qualifier)

Hope this little ditty clears things out for you Souri.

MK: Does it mean you are leaving this thread????

why??? 

Is your bus leaving DC?

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

dear friends

Simorgh jaan,

I respectfully disagree.

Best,

Masoud

===================　

Dear friend G. Rahmanian,

Let me express my gratitude to you.

Ba sepaase faravan,

Masoud

===========================　

Dear truthseeker,

I greatly appreciate sarcasm and humor. But one should avoid making fun of physical and mental challenges. People who have such challenges should not be stigmatized or made fun of. By and large, they are wonderful human being. I do realize that you were using sarcasm.

Best,

Masoud

dear MK

You are no intellectual match for these bloggers and writers in IC. Go
and get educated and then write a novel or story. You have wasted your life,
and so it seems those suffering from ailments like dyslexia are doomed and
never to be trusted! Look at these famous dyslexic idiots/ researchers who
falied in life, my favourite idiots being Charles Darwin and Stephen Hawking!

//www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html#famous

OUCH! Good diagnosis by Ari :-)

   "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." -

  George Orwell

Some say, Iranians Love Torture (When it's not done to them)

"  by Bavafa on Fri Aug 26, 2011 03:22 PM PDT [To MK:]  But do tell me, what is again the difference of those who are being tortured at the hand of IRI in Evin prison and those who are being tortured at the hands of MEK in Camp Ashraf?"  

1.  Or those being tortured, raped, and maimed in Bahrain by Saudis with US approval (Many Bahrainis are ethnic Iranians and Bahrain was only in recent history taken from Iran).  

2.  Or those being tortured and maimed by U.S. troops in Iraq? (Iraq was a part of Iran until it was lost by Shah Ismael - really not long ago.) 

... The problem is that there is no difference when it comes to issues of torture; Unless and until Iranians get off their ego-centric high-horse and universally condemn it and fight against it, torture will be used because the politics of the region have given rise to a certain context: Foreign powers historically have tried to intermeddle in, manipulate and exploit Iran and Iranian governments end up tanning the hides of those that are suspected of being complicit.  Also, the IRI didn't invent torture - that template was already in place.  To stop this cycle you have to unite in stopping the intermeddling (& foreign sponsorship of separatism etc.) and you have to unite against the violation of human rights by all nations.  The fact is that most Iranians didn't give a hoot about who was being whipped in other countries (and still don't, even when those places are ethnically and historically related to Iran) - yet they started whining at the top of their lungs (like they do on this site) when the Iranian government placed controls on short-sleave shirts, lipstick, and rock n' roll.  Not only that, there are those that ardently protect the U.S. and Israel (and other countries) that feed the cycle.    

I said it before and I'll say it again:  "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963.

MK: One other question if I may...

"MK: If you assert that the found, "warm arms" please provide a link to a credible source"

What is the purpose of asking to  "provide a link to credible source", when you don't find any of those links credible if and when they points to any information contrary to your position.

Souri Khanom links to the news organizations in US, apparently, are not credible. Ari's link to State Dept. study was also not credible. Ayatoilet sources were also not credible.

Do you see the irony here?

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Masoud : You got me there..

I have only up to a 6 grade education so I can hardly be blamed for lack of great knowledge in civil liberties.

Are you saying Obama has no civil liberties?  He is part of a goverment last I checked.

And do tell me, what is again the difference of those who are being tortured at the hand of IRI in Evin prison and those who are being tortured at the hands of MEK in Camp Ashraf? Is your premise here that since IRI is formally a government, then its members do not have any civil liberties but MEK is and should be different, say, because they are not formally a government?

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

It Is Indeed Amazing!

Either these guys are forgetful or, as they've been told on several occasions, are habitual liars!

Areyo /Masoud

Thank you for answering the question although Areyo did answer the question directly. 

As a supporter of Mohammed Reza Pahlavi and his great father I accept the path towards a liberal democracy was sluggish and frustrating. Autocracy was justified especially during the time of Reza Shah when the country risked being fragmented into ethnic bantustans and also threatened externally Soviets wh helped establish a break away republic in Gilan in 1921 and an indepednent republic in Iranian Azarbaijan. Do not underestimate the threat from Communists and the Soviets during the cold war.

You say that if the Shah had allowed Khomeini freedom of expression then he would have exposed his evil backwarded minded opinions. However, the Khomeini whose writings and tape recordings which won over the heart and minds of  many Iranians including intellectuals such as Bazargan and the Forouhars did not betray his cunning ploy to destroy secularism and replace it with a theocracy with himself as the Velayate Faghih. Khomeini positively encouraged nationalists to rally round his cause including Jeppe Melis and supporters of Mossadegh. 

I would recommend reading the biography on Khomeini by Baqer Moin who portrays Khomeini as a cunning, manipulative opportunist that he was who unravelled his real intentions once his seat in power was secured.

People like Bakhtiyar who could see through Khomeini were light years ahead but were sadly a quite minority. The Shah should have assassinated Khomeini before sending him to exile twice. If he did then the country would have been stabilised and the Akhunds would have lost its greatest figure head and leader. Lets face it there is not one Akhund even today who had the charisma of Khomeini who could so easily galvinize and trick an entire nation.  

MK, not a trivial point

What does your misspelling of Souri's name over and over again reveal about your powers of observation? It says that in some cases you have difficulty seeing a fact that is staring you in the face--comment after comment. A debilitating handicap for a researcher. There is an alternative explanation as to why you continue to make the same error, but it doesn't make you look any better.  Book reviewing  101!

Of pots of kettles, blacker than blacker patty pots, crying:

BLACK , BLACK, BLACK!

And then I wondered:

به حاله خوششون، اکبر بادا این بیگ بنگ، که گوید :

آخر من نفهمیدم، این بنده ایدلففونه، چه گونه سیبیلمو بند گرفت؟

 حالا هر چی‌: دست بزنیم

Dear Suri

Suri: But what I have posted here was not said by Wikipedia! They are ONLY the reports which have been cited by:

Time Magazine ,

New York Times, //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_TimesNewsweek, //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsweekHuman Rights Watch,,,

The very valid and reliable American sources !

It was also to show you how it is easy to find online, almost anything we want, to prove we are right , LOL. So in the future, you won't be too quick copy/pasting here anything you find online......

====================================　

MK:

Dear Suri,

You posted an article from the Wikipedia. Anyone can go and register and add stuff to Wikipedia and write that Times magazine wrote it, or the New York Times wrote it, or Newsweek wrote it, or Human Rights wrote it. Some person from the IRI Ministry of Intelligence can register and write that according to the New York Times, the PMOI dropped 5 nuclear bombs on Tehran in 1992. And then you copy-ane-paste it and accept it as actual words of the New York Times!!!!!!!!!!!

Golshan is a very credible source. It is managed by several pro-democracy and progressive Iranians. I know one of them. He is Mr. Hasibi. He is a most honest and credible person. One might disagree with his views (and I do about 50% of his views). But he is a very very honest man. He is closely related to the Mr. Hasibi who was among the founders and very top leaders of JM along with Dr. Mossadegh during JM government 1951-1953. At Golshan, they have copies, scanned, and posted the ACTUAL words from the actual publications of various groups.

There is no possibility of some agent going there unknown to spread lies and mis-information. They use only actual documents from the groups themselves.

======================

MK: " No name of the city that the PMOI used chemical weapons on. No dates.Saddam used chemical bomb on Halancheh in Iraq and the whole world knows. But the PMOI used chemical bombs on Iranian citices and no one knows about this. No monuments to this alleged tragedy"

S: Yes dear. We were in France at that time and the French TV showed a very disturbing documentary about the poor people with their faces and bodies burned by the chemical bombes. They have been taken then to France for treatement and recovery. Those people (mostly the Iranian soldiers) talked in that report. Maybe they don't show these kind of reports in US, but in France we see the most accurate reports, because the French journalism is the freest one in the world!

MK: They were the victims of Saddam’s use of chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers and IRGC and Basij. Saddam used chemical weapons on Iranians. The PMOI did NOT drop chemical weapons of several Iranian cities. If the PMOI has dropped chemical weapons in Iranian cities, we would know the names of the cities and the dates. You are confusing two entirely different things.

=========================== 

S: BTW, we also watched the report of the French police's attack to the Mojahedin's house, where they found millions Euro cash and also the tons of cold and warm arms and detonator.....etc, etc.

MK: From what I remember, the French authorities found the equivalent of about $6 million. If you assert that the found, "warm arms" please provide a link to a credible source. If I am not mistaken, the French court decided in favor the PMOI and returned their money a year or two ago. They also released Ms. Rajavi and she was not sent back to prison.

========================　

MK: The PMOI was a guerrilla organization which engaged in armed struggle against the vf regime."

S: Really?

Then can you explain WHY they have massacred so many IRAQI KURDISH? Was it also a part of their struggle against the VF regime?

MK: That was an allegation, which has been refuted by the current Foreign Minister of Iraq, Mr. Hoshyar Zibari, who is a KURD. I have already posted and re-posted this from the New York Times. Please read it. It takes only 20 seconds or so.

//www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/opinion/removing-an-iranian-opposition-group-from-the-us-terror-list.html?_r=1

The allegations you mentioned have been made and have been refuted. Authoritative and credible sources such as courts in the UK and EU reviewed these and decided that the PMOI did not do those and thus is not a terrorist entity. That is why the governments of the UK and EU de-listed the PMOI.

I hope these are helpful.

Best,

Masoud

Civil Liberties 101

Bavafa/Mehrdad: You clearly are advocating for the protection of civil liberties of all including those you disagree with. From your other writing, it has been clear that you disagree with IRI leadership, Sepah and other leading organization with IRI but then recanting your own earlier statement for protection of civil liberties of all Iranians.

MK: It is utterly amazing how little you know about basic concepts. My arguments was based on the presumption that you know the basic definition of civil liberties that many of my students learn in high school and the rest learn it at the freshman course on American politics or intro to political science at any college or university.

Civil liberties are rights and freedoms that individual have that need protection from the government that may be intrusive or oppressive. These civil liberties include freedom of expression, freedom of association (to form political parties), freedom of religion, privacy. Civil liberties need protection from THE GOVERNMENT.

The hard-line elements, IRGC, Basij, MOI, are the government that the people need protection from. There is no such a thing as defending the civil liberties of those in the government that have the power and are abusing the civil liberties of others. When a torturer in Evin is torturing, raping, and killing an Iranian citizen, the MOI dude is violating the civil liberties of the political prisoner. By its very definition and very nature, there is no such thing as protecting the civil liberties of those in government.

It is amazing how little you know. You lack the understanging of most basic definitions of these concepts. You do not know, and you do not know that you do not know.

My suggestion, is please take an introductory class on American politics or Intro to Political Science from a community college near you. This way you would not waste your time or my time.

Bavafa/Mehrdad: I would read your earlier/other articles about MEK, but first you will need to show me that your arguements are based on facts and logic and so far, respectfully, I see none.

MK: You asked me to clearly state my views on the PMOI. So, I provide you links to 2 articles that are easily available for you to READ in full context my critique and harsh criticisms of the PMOI and Rajavi. You refuse to read my criticisms of the PMOI and now demand that I "need" to show you that my "arguments are based on facts and logic."!!!!!!! You refuse to read to find out whether my criticisms of the PMOI are logical and fact-based. Do YOU see how amazingly ridiculous and irrational you are. YOU are supposed to read the argument and if you find the my argument lacking in logic and facts, then criticize my work on the subject of criticisms of the PMOI.

MK

G. Rahmanian, Thank YOU

Dear G. Rahmanian,

Not only they cannot think in abstraction, they do NOT understand the most basic definition of concepts or basics of logical reasoning.

Best,

Masoud

 Ayatoilet: I think the

 Ayatoilet: I think the petition is a great idea. Also, if there are any lawyers who can bring up charges against the leadeship of MEK, on behalf of the Iranian people, that route should be pusued as well.  I don't want these two dangerous cult leaders to be more legitimized by the likes of Howard Dean, and Guiliani.

"In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer."- Albert Camus

Dear Ayatoilet, a great call for a petition

Within Iranian politics, there are hardly any single subject that vast majority of Iranians can agree on, but MEK is an exception to that rule and this is a good gauge and reflective of MEK standing. So, those of us that are better writers hint Ari, Ayatoilte, souri and many others ought to take lead on this effort.

Some other notes that I can't just not mention:

Dear Disenchanted:

I found your comment quite hilarious, the "side kick" had not gone unnoticed, only being ignored nearly by all has been the best response to his/her cheer leading effort.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

ayatoilet, good idea about petition

.

Masoud

You said:

In serious debate, one can NOT rely upon the Wikipedia.

We all know that. But what I have posted here was not said by Wikipedia! They are ONLY the reports which have been cited by:

Time Magazine ,

New York Times, 

Newsweek,

Human Rights Watch,,,

The very valid and reliable American sources !

It was also to show you how it is easy to find online, almost anything we want, to prove we are right , LOL. So in the future, you won't be too quick copy/pasting here anything you find online......

Another point:

1)"  No name of the city that the PMOI used chemical weapons on.  No dates.Saddam used chemical bomb on Halancheh in Iraq and the whole world knows.  But the PMOI used chemical bombs on Iranian citices and no one knows about this.  No monuments to this alleged tragedy"

Yes dear. We were  in France at that time and the French TV showed a very disturbing documentary about the poor people with their faces and bodies burned by the chemical bombes. They have been taken then to France for treatement and recovery. Those people (mostly the Iranian soldiers) talked in that report. Maybe they don't show these kind of reports in US, but in France we see the most accurate reports, because the French journalism is the freest one in the world!

BTW, we also watched the report of the French police's attack  to the Mojahedin's house, where they found millions Euro cash and also the tons of cold and warm arms and detonator.....etc, etc.

2) You said:

"The PMOI was a guerrilla organization which engaged in armed struggle against the vf regime."

Really?

Then can you explain WHY they have massacred so many IRAQI KURDISH? Was it also a part of their struggle against the VF regime?

:

In 1991, Maryam Rajavi as then leader of PMOI's army forces directly ordered the massacre of Iraqi Kurdish people.

On July 13, 2003, New York Times published an article that in 1991 when Saddam Hussein used the PMOI and its tanks as advance forces to crush the Iraqi Kurdish people in the north and the Iraqi Shia people in the south, Maryam Rajavi as then leader of PMOI's army forces commanded:

“
"Take the Kurds under your tanks, and save your bullets for the Iranian Revolutionary Guards."

...........

The U.S. government has accused the group of helping Saddam brutally put down Iraqi Kurdish people in the early 1990s, and of launching numerous attacks inside Iran."

Dear Simorgh

On the question that you asked Masoud, if I may answer I must say that I absolutely think that Shah did the wrong thing by banning Khomeini and sending him to exile.

An unwise act that made Khomeini more important than he really was and gave him a potential for leadership.

Instead he should have opened the political atmosphere and allowed people like Dr Bakhtiar and other moderate and secular political visionaries to take Khomeini on and expose him for the backward evil minded man that he really was, and then may be we would not have been here today.

Although I have a lot of respect for Mohammad Reza Shah and his father and I believe that we Iranians owe a lot to them for the service that they have done to this country I still believe that this was his most fatal mistake.

In fact one year before the revolution in 1978 a group of political activists including Dr Bakhtiar and Dr Soroosh and others wrote an open letter to Shah warning a bout dire political situation that was on the horizon, asking him for more political freedom more transparency but he chose to ignore them and as a result people like Ibrahim Yazdi, Sadegh Ghotb Zadeh Abdulkarim Sanjabi and many others have deserted any hope of improvement, gathered around Khomeini to make him the leader he became, not to mention BBC World Service which became his mouth piece.

Only less than a year later Shah realized his mistake and opened the political atmosphere even made Dr Bakhtiar his prime minister but by that time it was too late and the wheel was in full spin for a regime change.

Please read a few books like “Akharin Talash ha dar Akharin Roozha”, “Answer to history” and “Crisis” to get the whole picture

One Good Petition??

THe one good thing about these blogs for me is that it is very clear there is "unified" opposition to the MKO/MEK/PMOI ...even MK doesn't support them but believes they should be "tolerated" as part of a civil 'society'. Another good thing is I keep learning even more bad things about them as people argue back and forth if they are terrorists or not.

But anyway, I have a poposal ...should we get a petition started declaring that we believe they are a terrorist group and send copies of the online petition to the State Department and some of their paid supporters in the US? (Like Guiliani or Bolton??)

Lets see if we can get more thatn 3000 signatures... What do you think?