Current Events

I wonder what everyone thinks about this:

           How someone seems to be guaranteed two blog spots everyday with NO EXCEPTION?

      SK, RG, Souri, BoosBoos, Ari and of course MK. What do you think?!

Do You see Democratic Christianity or Democratic Judaism

So why Democratic Islam,

Democracy is Democracy, it doesn't have a religous version.

Isn't Secularity necessary to prevent Goverment from interfering into the Church.  Or would you really like for the Church to be open to government interference like say in Italy before the creation of the Republic or In France before the French Revolution.

Government should not interfer in Religous Freedom, unless it breaks the law of the land and Religion should not interfere with civil issues and issues of governance, unless government interfers with the running of the church, their interests conflict.

MUST read article

//iranian.com/main/news/2011/08/29/its-time-lift-terror-tag-iranian-opposition-group-mek

Peace to you too Maziar jaan

Great poem.

haghighat ?

before moving to other topic

in Iran some may have the ability to sell colored spparow for a canary to some;

But haghighat stays the same 

 Na ghom khobeh  Na kashan been with Iranians for ever

there is no IF or BUT in it.

NO CODE NEEDED TO SAY THE TRUTH.

with respect to all other friends of any creed or color     

 peace.

Maziar

Thanks Masoud jan, yes, it is very helpful

Thanks for the examples that you have provided.

couple examples I was wrong and changed my word

Dear Anahid, Yes.  I had stated that in Khatami’s election the voter participation rate was higher than in 2009 as reported by the regime.  I had relied upon the work of only one scholar on it, Dr. Farideh Farhi.  The poster Q corrected me.  He used a number of quotes from various sources.  I looked at those sources, and realized that I was wrong.  So, I accepted Q’s word.    In an exchange with Ms. Farah Rusta, I had stated that after the coup, the Shah tortured to death and/or executed 300 persons (JM and Tudeh).  She brought evidence that I was wrong.  I looked at the sources, and realized that I had mistakenly exchanged those killed on the day of the coup (which was 300) with the number of those that the Shah execute and/or tortured to death.  I made the correction.I hope this is helpful. Masoud

Masoud jan,

Can you bring couple examples of your political exchanges on IC threads that after discussing with other commentators, you came to change your view?

Dear Anahid

AH: you can not argue with the fact that masoud only accepts his own words.  

MK: Anahid jaan,    

1.    Do you realize the contradiction in your sentence.  You state your opinion as FACT; and then you state that others can NOT even argue with you!!!!!!!!  Do YOU realize that according to your sentence, you only accept your own words?????!!!  

2.       I usually present my views and opinion, and am open to change them if and when others present their opinions or provide evidence.  For example, I write that Ali P. is a constitutionalist monarchist, and when he corrects me, I fully and immediately accept his words (and not my words).

 3.       If I say 2 + 2 = 18, then all you have to do to discredit me is to simply cut-and-paste my use of false argument or false evidence.   This would show to all the readers that I lack logic and only accept my own flawed words.     

Merely asserting that MK only accepts his own words is meaningless.   If I say that the earth is round, and another person says that the earth is flat, logic would require that I accept my words and not the other person’s words.     Best wishes,

Masoud  

If this was a contest for ….

Who can argue till the cows come home

MK: would be the undisputed winner

But fortunately in this debate for those of us who seek truth, content plays a much bigger then tactic of double-standard arguments, changing the subject when there can be any answer or repeating the same statements over and over to exhaust those you are debating.

It seems Souri khanom maybe the latest member who has reached her limit and had to give up. I hardly blame her.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Anahid jaan

No need. Glad you've moved on to sarcasm. Will have to see what Clinton decides about MEK. Anyway, time to move on to other topics.

this was sarcasm not outburst

truthseeker, what i wrote, was sarcasm not outburst. if you need, i can explain to you.

Well Anahid jaan

You did not question me, you made a statement (an outburst) that I do not speak the truth. I don't mind that, but if you want to question, then ask a question. With regards to MK, this has been a drawn out process in many blogs where he has explained his position over and over patiently until personal attacks are made and then he snapped. Some people agree with him and have now left the discussions as it goes round in circles. Everyone has a right to an opinion but people should not force their opinion on someone through attacking intelligence and integrity. Anyway, I will also join those people and call it a day. 

now I am emotional because I question you

you can not argue with the fact that masoud only accepts his own words. he has proven this in numerous threads. 

Anahid jaan

Don get upset and emotional, you mean you haven't noticed the logic displayed here when chosing to compliment intelligence and integrity? I know people are loyal to ones friends here but really ...

:) 

and truth on IC is whatever truthseeker says

.

BTW Masoud

Logic, as defined by the IC crowd, written here in a simple piece of pseudo code:

IF you are on my side

You
are one intelligent, fair and logical man

ELSE

You lack either knowledge, intelligent
and/or sincerity

ENDIF. 

I'm getting the hang of it... lol

Khosh bashid! 

Maziar

**disclaimer : I'm not a member of any political party.

But you are one intelligent, fair and logical man !

Thank you,

Na GHOM

KHOBEH Na KASHAN.....

the concept of comunism may in surface was in the opposit of capitalism and free world but it did went side by side with the rest of the world in terms of science,education,military strenght and countless other thing and for over 50 yrs we had 2 super powers west (usa) and east (ussr).

however they went down to their knees and broke down cause could not compete $$$$ and to simply becoming Russian federation.

honestly as the world was entering the 20th century the Establishment of tudeh party in Iran (not talking about their goals of their leaders) to join as the 16 block of uncle joseph's territories.

But the left taughts did cause an spark for more readings, talking,interacting among the citizen of half of the world Iranians included and the intellectual movement all over the globe.

**disclaimer : I'm not a member of any political party.

Maziar

on Tudeh Party

S: I am not and never been an stalinist.

I did not live under the Stalinist Toudeh, so can not judge if what you (and other folk ) say about that era is the truth and the whole truth.

MK: The Tudeh Party was Stalinist during Stalin’s time, Khruschevist during Khruschev’s time, and Brezhnevist during Brezhnev’s time. Kianouri did criticize Gorbachev for causing the collapse of USSR.

You lived during Brezhnev and the few who came after him. From Lenin’s time until Gorbachev’s reforms (which helped the collapse of the USSR), there was not freedom of expression, no freedom of the press, no freedom of political parties, no free elections, no human rights. In other words, there was no democracy, no freedom, no civil liberties, no human rights. Millions and millions of people were tortured, millions sent to forced labor camps (i.e., dissidents were made to be essentially slaves to the state in these camps),....

YOU did live during the time of Brezhnev, you did live under Tudeh under Kianouri. Kianouri was the head of the Tudeh Party. And this horrible man criticized the only leader in the Soviet Union who was decent and wanted to bring a little glasnost and hesitated to use tanks to mass slaughter people who opposed the brutal rule of the USSR. Kianouri was a member of the Tudeh Party during Stalin’s time. The Tudeh Party was established by Stalin to serve his interests.

Any time the people in Eastern Europe wanted to be free from domination from the USSR, the Soviet leaders send it tanks to slaughter the people or threatened to do so. Study Soviet invasion of Hungary and Czechoslovakia, etc. The Soviets would not even allow a moderate communist like Alexander Dubchek (sp?) to make minor reforms.

Please read a few books on Stalin. Read some books or articles on Eastern Europe which came under Soviet domination. If one wants freedom, human rights, civil liberties, democracy, then Tudeh Party was one of the most deadly enemies of these goals. If you want a one party dictatorship, where one or a handful order the mass murder of dissidents, or anyone who writes a critique of dictatorship, then you should be grateful for the work of the Tudeh Party and your support of them.

Best,

Masoud

Sargord!

Is it possible that Ari simply misses the late Sargord? The guy who used to go around and point out misspellings in the comments on this site.

BTW

On the double standard's accusation:

I have never said anything about the MKO but asking for a legal trial!

If the Toudeh party was there today asking for being freely and legally active, and if you and other folks were asking for their trial, I would never objected myself to that decision.

In fact, this was what  Kianoury ,himself, asked many times during the debates at the Iranian TV. They were able to defend themselves very well and rightfully, no need an A.I.P.A.C or a JM or other representative to talk for them, while the (MKO) leaders are hiding somewhere in the desert!

Whether you like it or not

There are many people out there who want MEK delisted for varous reasons. So picking on people in IC and singling them out, using intimidation and character assassination to force ones views is not the way. The decision is not made in IC debates, and if they are delisted many people do not see it as a great disaster. They are hated inside and outside of Iran.

//www.intellectualconservative.com/2011/08/25/delist-mek/

//www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1108/S00292/delisting-of-mek-avoids-another-disaster-in-camp-ashraf.htm

Masoud

I am not and never been an stalinist.

I did not live under the Stalinist Toudeh, so can not judge if what you (and other folk ) say about that era is the truth and the whole truth. I guess not!

I defend the Toudeh party of the 1979 and then, because I am more aware of their history. I can't rely on your golshan,com and other site which are said to be the Toudeh's real confession.

The true Toudeh y that I knew, would never say those thing. Then, I look at the facts which are clearly described, but discard any propaganda and analysis especially those which are given viciously the enemies of Toudeh.

At the end, you are mistaken, Sir., I am no more a Toudehy.

I just respect them and am forever grateful for all that I have learned with them  especially regarding the culture.

Your ultra effort to defend a terrorist organization, under the excuse of civil liberty, is  getting seriously ridiculous now.

Good luck!

Dear Souri

Dear Souri,

1. We agree.

2. Ari was and is using insult of "handicap" and "dyslexic," because I spelled your name as Suri instead of Souri. And you support him.

If I misspelling is a handicap and dyslexia, then you too also have misspelled. Just look around and see how many of the posters on this site misspell "Libya" as "Lybia." And all these posters have seen the name Libya soooooooooooooooooo many times.

3. It has been other posters who have been trying to intimidate me into silence. The fact that I bring up your support for the Tudeh Party is to show you the inconsistency in your positions. You want to do this or that to the PMOI.

I. I remind you that those criteria of treason is the same between PMOI and Tudeh Party. PMOI collaborated with Saddam. Well, Tudeh Party that you supported was nokar of Stalin and USSR. The PMOI should be condemned for collaboration with Saddam. The Tudeh Party was nokar of Stalin and USSR. By its very nature, the Tudeh Party was nokar. The Tudeh Party was a tool of the USSR.

II. Stalin was a genocidal murderer who killed millions and millions of his own people. Stalin also killed his own comrades in the Politburo and Central Committee. Why in YOUR position PMOI is dictatorial, but the USSR-Stalin-Tudeh Party is not?????? Do YOU see the hypocrisy??????

III. There was a horrible CULT of personality of Stalin.

In addition to showing the double-standard, my posts are intended to show the slippery slope. Stalin-Tudeh Party are truly tyrannical, violent entities. The same principle that would call for the PMOI, would certainly also would apply to the Tudeh Party. The point is showing the double-standard in your positions is to show that you do not uphold one principle applied to all. If the Tudeh Party and you do it, it is fine. But if the PMOI does the same thing, then you condemn it and want it punished.

4. Yes, there is a problem in our debate. You and I disagree on some fundamental FACTS. For example, you do not accept that the Tudeh Party was nokar of the USSR, that Stalin was a brutal tyrant. You do not accept the horrible role of the Tudeh Party in Iran, including its ugly role from say mid-1979 to 1983 which helped Khomeini against democrats and socialists. You do NOT accept as evidence the actual copied, scanned, and posted words of the Tudeh Party. But you accept the words in the Wikipedia that the PMOI used chemical weapons of many Iranian cities while no name of cities or dates provided!!!!!!!!!

You and I do have an issue regarding evidence.

Best,

Masoud

دوست عزیز آقای کاظمزاده

من سعی‌ می‌کنم به فارسی به شما توضیح بدم.

۱) توضیحات شما در مورد تلفظ انگلیسی‌ و فرانسه کاملا درست است

۲) نتیجه گیری آری، از این جهت  بسیار هوشمندانه بود، که تلفظ اسم من از
طرف شما فقط یک اشتباه لفظی نبوده. همونطور که میدونید من نزدیک ۴ ساله که
دارم در این وبسایت مطلب مینویسم. اسم من با هر تلفظی، به هر حال به
اینصورت در ایرانیان دات کام ثبت شده. ولی‌ شما بدون توجه به این مورد
بسیار مشخص که هر چند ساعت یک بار حتی در جلو چشم خودتون منعکس می‌شه، باز
هم اصرار دارید که همون تلفظی که خودتون فکر می‌کنید صحیح تره (یا انگلیسی‌
تره) رو دوباره  تکرار کنید!

نتیجه گیری آری از این نظر بسیار هوشمندانه بود که کاملا با تعریفی‌ که
ما از شما کردیم، یعنی‌ شخصی‌ که به هیچ منبع و مدرکی‌ که بر خلاف نظر خودش
هست اهمیتی نمیده و حرف خودش رو همیشه به همون صورت تکرار میکنه، کاملا
انطباق داشت، و دلیلی‌ بر صحت این نظر در مورد واکنش‌های بی‌منطق (با عرض
معذرت) شماست.

۳) در مورد نظرات شما در مورد حزب توده، باید بگم که اینها دیگه یک
تاکتیک قدیمیست که دیگه برای افراد مطلع و باهوش و صاحب نظر کار نمیکنه،
متاسفم. یعنی‌ شما در عین اینکه با لحنی کاملا مودبانه با من وارد بحث
میشید که مثلا در مورد کامنت آری نظر بدی (یا مجاهدین یا غیره) از فرصت
استفاده می‌کنید و تمام مدت بحث رو به حزب توده و گرایش من به حزب توده
میکشانید (یعنی‌ در واقع همون سفر  به کربلای معروف رو انجام میدین) تا در
ضمن بحث اصلی‌، از حربه "اینتی‌میدیشن" استفاده کرده باشید. به خاطر همین
هم، من هیچ توجهی‌ به مطالب شما در مورد حزب توده و استالین و کمیته مرکزی
حزب کومونیست شوروی و غیره و ذالک نمیکنم. کمترین جوابی که نه، حتی
کوچکترین توجّهی هم نمیکنم. چون با اصول اساسی بحث درست و مفید، به کلی‌
مغایرت داره و شما خودتون هم اینو میدونید.

۴) فکر می‌کنم که ادامه این بحث دیگه واقعا غیر ضروری و اسراف وقت است.
مواضع همه ما در این مورد بخصوص مطرح و مشخص شده. منباقی، همه حرف است و
حدیث بی‌ نتیجه.

با تشکر.

Dear Truthseeker and Souri

Dear Truthseeker,

I realized that you were using sarcasm. When an individual or a group (in this case supporters of NIAC) lack logical arguments, good answers to questions, and document, and keep losing arguments, they resort to personal attacks and insults. Therefore, when the readers sees such personal attacks, then our readers know who has logic and evidence and who lacks them.

The readers of this site are highly educated and intelligent. They could easily see who has logical arguments and who is using personal attacks and insults.

To sink to the level of calling someone "handicap" and other personal insults is simply too low. I prefer to ignore such persons and such weird insults.

Best,

Masoud

===================================　

Souri: I don't mind if he wants to call me Suri.

But I loved your observation and truly admired your analysis.

genious!

MK:

Dear Souri,

If you were offended by my spelling your name "Suri," I apologize. I had NOT meant to be offensive. I have been used to spell this name as "Suri." I might be mistaken but there might be a difference between those who began spelling your name in French as "Souri" and those in English as "Suri." You spell the party as "Toudeh" and I spell it as "Tudeh." A former professor and now colleague and friend of mine in France spells his name as "Cosroe," and I spell it as "Khosrow." {Dr. Khosrow Shakeri = Cosroe Chaqueri}.

//www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Cosroe%20Chaqueri

In this very response, YOU misspelled "genius" as genious !!!!!!!!!

Please read Ari’s post on misspelling. Do YOU think that it might apply to you? Does it mean that you have "a debilitating handicap"?????????  If Ari using the term "handicap" is wrong, then one should not use it for anyone (you or me, or anyone else). 

Or perhaps, spelling is a trivial issue and we should not be wasting our precious time on it. And certainly not using personal insults due to misspellings. I certainly would NOT call a person who misspells as suffering from "a debilitating handicap," "dyslexic," "or worse."

=======================

MK, not a trivial point

by Ari Siletz on Fri Aug 26, 2011 02:17 PM PDT

What does your misspelling of Souri's name over and over again reveal about your powers of observation? It says that in some cases you have difficulty seeing a fact that is staring you in the face--comment after comment. A debilitating handicap for a researcher. There is an alternative explanation as to why you continue to make the same error, but it doesn't make you look any better. Book reviewing 101!

=================================

Dear Souri,

Neither you nor I have a debilitating handicap for misspelling or spelling differently "Tudeh" or "Toudeh" or "Suri" and "Souri" or this or that word. These are minor oversights and/or are due to simple mistakes not proofreading our posts, not used to one form of spelling or another. It is very insulting to use misspelling to call others to have a handicap.

In civil debates and discussions, we should avoid personal attacks and insults. It is true that you and I differ greatly. I regard the Tudeh Party to be a nokar of USSR (and Stalin), I regard Stalin to be a genocidal man who murdered his own comrades in the Politburo, and Central Committee. You supported that horrible organization.

It is perfectly fine for you and the Tudeh Party to use political attacks such as "bourgeois" or "liberal" and the like. We call Tudeh Party supporters as dictatorial, puppet of USSR, and genocidal. These are POLITICAL terms describing what each group considers about another group.

But personal insults like "handicap" and the like are not political terms. There is a difference between political engagement and vicious personal attacks, insults and lumpen language.

Best,

Masoud

Truthseeker9

Glad to know you don't support MEK or MK.

And your advice about IC members not insulting each other is a good one.

What a joke

If your true concern is about gentlemanly conduct and not about defending those whose side you are in a debate, speak up when others are being insulted. Because there are plenty of examples where your dear friends insult other people on this site regularly, otherwise your attempt at showing "superior" values is hollow and self serving.

With regards to your analysis of those who you do not know and again decide to pigeon hole according to your objectives - I am not a supporter of MEK or MK. And I did not compare MK to Darwin, if you are such a shrewd analyst you should have got the point that spelling and intelligence are not correlated and your point was pure spite.

Exactly Ari jon!

You got it!

Usually I prefer my world of literature and poetry and culture, in general.

But sometime......

Anyway.

Btw, Bonne Chance  !

As the French  say  ;-)