Feeling superior

Incredible racism of (some) Iranians

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Feeling superior
by Setareh Sabety
06-Jan-2009
 

Iranians can be extremely racist.  I was first made aware that Iranians were perceived, by others in the region, as arrogant racists by a Pakistani professor of Islamic literature at Boston University.  Professor Rahbar taught in the Religion department and most Iranians took his literature course for an easy grade.  He also conducted the Farsi exams which, if passed, made the University wave the second-language requirement for Iranian students.  The poor man, who was well-versed in Persian poetry and loved Saadi and Hafez, was routinely ridiculed by his Iranian students.  This was mostly because of his Pakistani accent.  Although his eccentric habit of cooking curry in his office, in the Theology building on Mass. Ave., did not help either.   

He opened the class that fall semester many years ago talking about the incredible arrogance of Iranians vis-à-vis others in the region. He quoted from non Iranian poets to illustrate that poetry and indeed Farsi itself was not just the genre or language of Iranians.  He claimed that this beautiful language that served so wonderfully the poetry of the heart and spirit which in turn gave it such lasting resonance, was not worthy of the arrogant majority to whom it belonged.  Those comments opened my eyes and made me realize that racism was not just the stuff of Malcolm X and the U.S but of ours as well.  I remembered my elementary school friend Mojib, also a Pakistani, and how my friendship with him was ridiculed by my older cousins.  They called him my nokar seeyah or black servant.  I did not like their chiding but did not have the language, as a schoolgirl, with which to interpret it as hateful, racist and arrogant.  I knew that the Professor was overly sensitive to the issue because of the treatment he was getting from the Iranians in his class but I also knew that he was not wrong.

That first night after Rahbar’s class I called my mother, recently exiled from an Islamic Iran, and told her proudly about the ‘Islamic’ lit. course that I was taking.  She shouted back that Iranian poetry is anything but Islamic!  She yelled, “they want to take Hafez and Saadi away from us too!” For years I tried to explain to her and Iranians like her that in academia ‘Islamic’ designated a shared culture spanning a period and an area that had Islam as its most unifying common denominator.  It did not mean that Persian poetry was Arabic or religious just that it came from that time and place where Islam was the dominant culture.   

For Iranians, like my mother, freshly chased out of their country, who had seen many a friend die at the hands of the newly empowered mullahs, it was hard to feel any sense of empathy or identity with Islam.  But when she went on to call the professor “martikeh Pakistani” then I knew that my own mom was not free of the prejudice and arrogance discussed by Professor Rahbar.  For many Iranians believe that they have a richer culture, a better skin color, and are generally superior to all Indians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Arabs and Africans.   

Through-out the years I have run into this kind of racism again and again.  Of course there is concrete evidence of state-sponsored racism against the Afghanis who provide Iran, like the Mexicans in the U.S, with cheap labor.  That is a problem, like the history of slavery in Iran that merits much more thorough and academic discussion than I can provide here.   

The kind of salon-racism that my Professor talked about and my mother betrayed by her comments is what I sadly run into again when I talk about what is happening in Gaza.  Not from my mother, mind you, who has matured into an Al-Jazeera watching democrat.  But, mostly from the ultra-nationalists and monarchists, with whom I have the privilege to live, here in Nice.  Who are not unlike the ultra-nationalist monarchists that I keep running into, when I write essays, in the comments section of this site.    

To be pro-Palestinian amongst this bunch of Iranians is like being pro-Castro in Miami: extremely difficult.   I have simply stopped going out to any parties and if I am in their company I try hard and against every instinct in my body to remain silent.  New Year’s Eve I was invited to a party by a dear old friend.   There I ran into a Zionist European who is married to an Iranian.  He started talking about Gaza. I asked him if he was a Zionist, he said provocatively, “one hundred percent.”  Then I started trying to say something that would make me feel like I have taken a stance but without ruining the party for both of us. He knew were I stood and had read my articles about Palestine many years ago.  So he was not going to give up. I turned to my Iranian friend, highly educated and kindhearted Ali, asking him what he thought; he was an old Le Monde reading leftist who loves children so I was hoping that I would get some badly needed support.  He turned around and said, “Good for Israel they should kill all those flea-infested, bearded, shit-smelling, cock roach-eating Muslim terrorists.”  Ali has the kind of hairy Iranian look that I am sure gets him thoroughly checked at the airport each time he wants to fly somewhere.  But he simply can not see that he looks so much like the people he so abhors! He feels superior to them because they are Arabs and he is Iranian!  I just turned on my heals, headed for the bar and joined the women at the other end who were talking about diets: another favorite topic of mine!  The days when I ruined entire parties with my zeal for an opinion are long gone!

Another day I ran into some friends of my parents in a café talking to a younger realtor.  This time I walked in the middle of the conversation. The old lady with an Azeri accent, who had a raspy voice from years of smoking, was saying, “Elahi hameyeh in malakhorhayeh reeshoo ro nabood koneh Israel.”  (May Israel destroy all these bearded cockroaches!”)   This time I had to say something and there was no party to ruin-- so I ventured, “why do you hate these poor Palestinians so?”   

What she said I have heard many times with different degrees of venomous passion and hatred: Palestinians helped the mullahs come to power in Iran, they are supported by the current Islamic regime, and they are therefore the enemy of “real patriotic Iranians.”   

The logic goes something like this:

1.  The Islamic Republic supports the Palestinian cause.

2.  IRI is an illegitimate theocratic regime that should be overthrown.

3.  Therefore Palestinians are stinking Arabs who do not deserve our support.

So laced with their hatred of the mullahs is their sense of superiority and hatred towards the Arabs.  They go on to say, why should WE help these bastards, why should the regime give them money that is better used on Iran and Iranians.  They are not OUR problem.  They are not our friends; they are the friends of the mullah regime and are therefore our enemies. They are stinking Arab cockroach eaters!  

I kissed her and said that I had to go but that I was always pro-Palestinian since I did a project for Mr. Holmes on the Arab-Israeli conflict in the 8th grade at the Tehran Community School.  What do you say to people who use such logic and are so racist?  She turned around and said,” Setareh joon zaminaayeh babato pass gerefti az in akhoondayeh dozd? Setareh darling, did you get back your father’s land from these mullah thieves?  I said no and left.

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more from Setareh Sabety
 
capt_ayhab

jakarta, Illiteracy is foundation of racism

by capt_ayhab on

You say [..Making Rashti jokes is NOT racism. We never makes jokes like "Hey those
Rashtis are so genetically inferior hahah" we make jokes about a very
specific (and hilarious) behavior (cheating on the husband/the husband
not defending himself) and the prototype of this kind of behavior is
given the umbrella term "Rashti." Probably a few hundred years ago
someone noticed a few Rashti women being kinky and made a joke about it
and it caught on....
]

You even go as far as trying to justify your racism by making up some sort of STUPID historical theory.  Are you telling me that in your history, Rashti ladies were the only ones got kinky(as you put it)? Are you telling me no one else in your version of history did that, and no other men failed to defend his/her honor(so to speak).

What about Azaris???? What does your version of history tells you happened that they started calling Azari people [khar]. My apologies to our Azeri hamvatans, yours truly included. 

How about Lurs????? what happened that they started calling them[khar tar az Turk], apologies again. Before you answer this one let me give you a piece of information. Lurs and Turks are the very first original Aryans.

Your logic is racist and childish to say the least.

There is a saying that racist people are usually illiterate, and you proved it wonderfully dude. Illiteracy is foundation of racism.

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


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ترک خر و عرب سوسمار خور و افغاني قاتل

مشتری (not verified)


راستش ما ايرانيها خودمون رو از همه ملتهایی که در جوارمان زندگی میکنند بهتر میبینیم ولی فرنگی ها رو از خود برتر میبینیم

میگوییم ترک خر و عرب سوسمار خور

این که هیچ حتی همزبانان افغانی که فرهنگشان با ما یکی هست و از نژاد خودمون هستند رو آدم به حساب نمیاریم

این ملی گرایان کوروش پرست هم که همش از نژاد آریا دم میزنند هم وقتی پای افغان ها در میان میاد هیچ اثری از آریا پرستی شون دیده نمیشه

آیا دیدین که این ملی گرایان یک کلمه راجع به اخراج افغانیان از ایران بگویند و از ظلمی که بر ایشان روا میرود شکایت کنند؟

نخیر وقتی دم از نژاد آریا میزنند منظورشان مو بور های سفید پوست اروبا و آمریکا هست


Kaveh Nouraee

Setareh khanoum

by Kaveh Nouraee on

Your article is not only very interesting and enlightening, but also very timely, considering the current events in the Middle East.


Hajminator

Look at

by Hajminator on

the damage caused by a Zionist here ... Now, imagine what the Palestinian People endure.


Zion

I'm sure it was. :-)

by Zion on

Thanks ayhab.


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Making Rashti jokes is NOT

by jakarta (not verified) on

Making Rashti jokes is NOT racism. We never makes jokes like "Hey those Rashtis are so genetically inferior hahah" we make jokes about a very specific (and hilarious) behavior (cheating on the husband/the husband not defending himself) and the prototype of this kind of behavior is given the umbrella term "Rashti." Probably a few hundred years ago someone noticed a few Rashti women being kinky and made a joke about it and it caught on.
SImilarly any joke about being stupid is attributed to "Torks" ...take any Tork jokes and use the word "Pole" or "Blonde" instead, and the jokes will still work out. Furthermore Rashtis and Torks are not different races, they are people in different regions of our own country. When a Californian makes fun of southern accents or someone in Miami makes fun of a New Yorker or Chicago accent, they are not being racist they are just poking fun at regional differences. In fact even when a white person mimicks an Indian person's accent it's still not really racist. REal racism is denying people socio-economic rights because of their descent. The reason black people fought for civil rights was not because whites gave them dirty looks (although that is definitely not right and a side-cause), it's because they were segregated from the best schools and jobs and thus stuck in the worst living conditions simply because of their color.

ps They asked a RAshti woman: Do you speak with your husband after sex? She said: Yeah, sometimes I'll give him a phone call.


capt_ayhab

Zion

by capt_ayhab on

No problem Zion,

No i do not have any Jewish relative(not that I know of), I am 100% Iranian Azari. Although both my first name and last name has Hebrew roots. 
Closest I have came to having a Jewish relative, was my first love ever[kind of first puppy love thingy]  with a Jewish girl in Iran, about 2000 yrs ago it seems. Her family thought that a Muslim boy was not good enough for their daughter. Her loss (WINK)

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


Zion

Thanks ayhab

by Zion on

I appreciate it.
(On a different note, do you also happen to have some distant Jewish Isfahani heritage or something similar? I hope you don't mind my asking, I am just curious... .)


capt_ayhab

Zion

by capt_ayhab on

Although my position is crystal clear about your stance on issues, which is 99.99% of the time I am in totally opposite polarity,  but I do agree with you on how some people refer to others with rude and hateful names such as [creature].

Let me remind you that logic like that only represent ignorance, nothing more........

Keep posting your convictions, this is what these threads are all about.

cheers

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Yes some of us Iranians are racist to the bone

by capt_ayhab on

The Oxford English Dictionary,
racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.
The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."

 

According to Albert Memmi, author of [Racism:University of Minnesota Press; ISBN: 0-8166-3165-4]

Racism is social, not "natural"; it is general, not "personal"; and
it is tragically effective. 

Author investigates racism as social pathology--a cultural disease that prevails because it allows one segment of society to empower itself at the expense of another. By
turns historical, sociological, and autobiographical, Racism moves beyond individual prejudice and taste to engage the broader questions of collective behavior and social responsibility.

With all these definitions in mind, when gentleman Anonymousx  argues with this logic: [Iranians are NOT racist. They have pride, arrogance, ego, class, etc.;
none of which is the classic racism that europeans displayed in their
behavior of the last 5 centuries wherever they went, from america to
africa, and from india to central asia.]

What you are saying sir that in fact your thoughts and ideas are racist to bone. Racism is not just [NOT HAVING A SLAVE], but even thinking that Iranian race is somehow superior to lets say Arabs constitutes bigotry.

One thing that we as Iranians do not notice and culturally is embedded in our way of life is the various jokes and satires that target our minorities, i.e. Turks, Rashties, & etc. 

capt_ayhab [-YT]

p/s Ms. Sabety, yet another wonderful topic. I enjoyed it.


Zion

That settles it then! :-)

by Zion on

'Also, I simply do not argue, as a friend of mine told me recently, with people who support the Israeli government...'

OK. Even though what I asked you about had nothing to do with my position on Israel, it didn't involve Israel at all. Yet according to you now, you just won't argue with anyone that has a given name or avatar no matter what the subject matter is. In a sense, this more than anything else verifies what I noticed and was wondering about.


Flying Solo

.

by Flying Solo on

.

 


Monda

Thanks Setareh

by Monda on

I am grateful to you for your important and eloquent piece And the exchanges of other good writers on this thread (namely Niloufar Parsi, Iranian Reader, Flying Solo, IRANdokht and Shekar). I have found much solace reading you and others here. 


Flying Solo

.

by Flying Solo on

.

 


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Alphabet Soup

by Anonymousx (not verified) on

The article makes an alphabet soup of a lot of related and unrelated matters and calls it racism. Bigotry, political belief, nationalism, class, relgion, like or dislike of IRI and its supporters, sense or lack thereof fairness have all mixed up even though NONE is racism.

Racism is based on a sense of genetic superiority, where the inferior race is not considered worthy of same treatment. And that superiority must me measurable by some yardstick. Racism is mostly of European origin where its symptoms could be seen during european contacts with outside world in 20th century and before.

A nation with the type of judgment that they showed in 1979 revolution cannot feel superior in any ways, let alone display racism. Iranian sense of pride does exist even though it dominantly related to pre-islamic iran where none of iranians of today contributed to. On the contrary, iranians often discuss that iranians can never do the right thing, a requirement of a sense of superiority leading to racism.

Iranians are NOT racist. They have pride, arrogance, ego, class, etc.; none of which is the classic racism that europeans displayed in their behavior of the last 5 centuries wherever they went, from america to africa, and from india to central asia.


Setareh Sabety

dear souri and nilou khanoom all who bothered to come to my aid,

by Setareh Sabety on

I could not stop without saying thank you! You are all so cool. I wish you lived here!


Bijan A M

Ms. Flying solo,

by Bijan A M on

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your comment. It was brilliant. I hope you don’t quit your addiction this time. Your open minded approach adds a lot of value to any debate.

Thanks 


Bijan A M

Setareh khanoom,

by Bijan A M on

How did you manage to pull race in the middle of this conflict? What has race got to do with it? How can you  equate the pride of a nation in its culture and heritage with racism. You and many others maybe content and resigned to the takeover (occupation) of your ancestral culture by an Islamic one, but those who resist it are not racists. I believe your intent was not to label Iranians as racists, but only to demonize those who have a different opinion than yours about the Israeli-palestinian conflict. You go as far as calling United States racist towards its Mexican population because millions of illegal Mexican immigrants risk their lives to voluntarily become slaves!. Can you get any more wrong in your argument?

Let’s just forget about your racism slogan and discount it as a fluff for your position in defense of Palestinian cause. My question to you and all your supporters is: How would you deal with the situation?  Before you start your response, let me share with you my opinion that may save you (and us) some repetitious material.  I do not condone or condemn Israel’s ACTIONS because I can’t offer an alternative approach, given realities of the conflict. In my opinion those realities are:  

1-     State of Israel as a JEWISH state is here to stay. The time to debate legitimacy of its existence is long gone.

2-     Israel will do ANYTHING to exist and protect its citizens. You have to exist to have moral existence.

      3-     Single state solution will not work. At least, not now. Maybe after many centuries of peaceful co-existence of the two states. Who knows?….  

How would you deal with 1.5 million people who empowered a regime that is committed to your destruction?. A regime that slaughters its own brothers who are willing to make peace. You maybe right that Israel has violated Palestinin’s human right, but, what would you do to protect yourself from someone who has sworn to destroy you?

Wouldn’t you think living with a tumor and conducting a normal and fruitful life is by far better than risking the patient’s life just to remove the tumor? What would be wrong to make peace (even if you have to make sacrifices) with someone who you think is paranoid and crazy? What do you have to lose (other than sacrifices you make for peace, be it land, pride, or whatever)? If it didn’t work, you can always go back to your plot to take him out, if you thought that is a better alternative.  

I know I’ll be labeled a Zionist, but it pains me as much as the rest of you to see the body of a child soaked in blood carried to cemetery. But, I keep on asking myself, why? Why does it have to be like this? Condemning the action, as inhumane as it looks, will not bring an end to it. Setareh khanoom, maybe you can now enlighten us with some specific answers, without resorting to excessive dramatization and recite of some extremist propaganda.

Regards,

 


Setareh Sabety

Dear Flying Solo

by Setareh Sabety on

I am just responding here despite tremendous exhaustion with this thread, because I respect you and loved your piece. It is great to see women talk about their lives and wonderful to see married couples who still have sex! Your face also looks so familiar. Have we met?

I wrote an opinion, personal point of view, piece about what I called the 'salon racism' of some Iranians. In that very article I did say that it was not an in depth look into the causes and history of racism or slavery in Iran.

I see the attitude I described as racism simply because people are being attacked in those instances for being arab or pakistani. If you just put those comments in the context of your lives in the West and just change the term dirty or flea-infested Arab with "Jew" or "Nigger", then you will see that it is indeed racist. Here in France especially Arabs are looked upon as African Americans in the states. I described the link between that racism and sense of superiority and the anti-Palestinian stance that some people take in this horrible massacre of Gazans. In this very thread you see ample proof of that.

Now I did not want to discuss the origins or the nuances of the Iranian view of Arabs or the nature of Iranian racism. This is not a research paper it is a personal point of view essay. That is why it is easy to read.

I was just writing a piece on what I saw and how it effects people view of what is happening now in GAza. When people lump together a whole race, Arabs, and then show such hatred that they cannot see clearly or logically to me that is racism. Now you can call it classist or anything you like. but my friend did not call them faghir or badbakht he called them flea-ridden and malakhkhor! He attacked not their station in life but their race. He did not say oon gedaahaa shipeeshoo, he said oon arabhaye reesho, boogandoo, malakhor!
The point is that what ever you call it--it exists this arrogance and this lumping of all arabs together and blaming of Islam for everything.

The hatred for the present regime in Iran makes people hate the Arabs even more. It is wrong.

I never argued with those people at the party. I did not call anyone names here. To call someone who signs his name as zion and has an atavar of jerusalem a zionist is hardly wrong. that person thinks zionism is a good thing so it is hardly a bad thing or he would not proudly brandish it.

I also should not be told that I have to answer every question raised by my article. I think my article stands by itself. it is very clear what I think and why. If people disagree then so be it. They can write an article about their own view of what makes Iranians act the way they do. I have no problem with that. If you think elitism is the root cause of our hatred of Arabs and Pakistanis it is not my duty to argue with you. You may be right. You should write an article about it.

Mr. Sobhani, I am not teaching a class here where if I do not answer a question I am accused of un-professionalism. I have spent too much of my time already, my kids got pizza two nights in a row, answering circular and repetitive arguments. It is exhausting to answer everyone's questions especially since so much of them are purely rhetorical and designed to upset and pick a fight.

Also, I simply do not argue, as a friend of mine told me recently, with people who support the Israeli government, Hitler and Khomeini. We don't share the same language or Grammar. There is no point to it. So allow me, for the sake of my kids dinner, if nothing else to walk away from this thread like I did from that conversation at the party!

May the massacre in Gaza stop.


Niloufar Parsi

Setareh jan

by Niloufar Parsi on

it is patently clear that some of the comments left here are MEANT to cause a stir. best to ignore them... :)

Peace!


Souri

This was one of the most interesting ....

by Souri on

thread I have seen in the site, recently. Ms Sabeti, your article is really great, very well articulated and very rich content, as usual. Thank you.

Mr. Sohbani  :  The very chosen name of "Zion" means a Zionist !! There's no name calling here. It's like I call you Mr Sohbani and you get offended (?) As I have been following the thread, reading all the comment, I may say, this was one of the rare time when most of the comments well rich and intelligent. I was amazed specially by the ones of Ms. Sabeti herself, Iranian Readr and our dear Ajam (as usual :O)) ....and all other like minded friends.

All the questions have been answered by Ms Sabeti, and I don't see which one did not satisfied your curiosity ? The very same article she wrote here,
was the answer to the questions, and she always followed up every single
question and added some extra comments where it was needed.  I
understand your frustration but really your arguments are not well
founded here.

Respectfully,


Niloufar Parsi

comments on a few comments!

by Niloufar Parsi on

flying jan!

nice comments. just one issue: i don't agree that there is a need for a 'lead' discussant who can see 'both' sides. that is putting too much pressure on one person. everyone should hold their own positions and logic within a debate. after all, we are discussing matters that matter, rather than debating for the sake of a debate in a classroom with a master.

on 'race': i don't believe that there is such a thing as 'race'. but 'racism' is very real and has serious implications (a bit like saying there is no god but religion is very real). usually it involves a power relation and a will to subjugate a group otherwise it is plain bigotry that does not necessarily have any serious impact.

i would agree with you that iranians can be bigots and prejudiced (if i got you right) but on the whole we are not 'racist'. on the contrary, our 'turks' are virtually running the economy, and they have usually been the most progressive and forward thinking among us with better gender relations. i think they are made fun of out of envy!

at some level, we must also protect our right to be able to laugh at ourselves. hard to reach a balance.

Coming back to the core message of the article: if our Bigotry against a group (rather than our sincere judgment) is turned into material support for one side of a conflict in cash or weapons supply, then we have made the leap into being racists. this, i think, is what Setareh is warning against. and it is a charge that can be made equally to both sides of the conflict.

zionists accuse their foes of being antisemitic, and anti-zionists accuse the other side of being racists. the real determinant of who is really being a racist (among the supporters of either side) is their motivation: are they doing it out of irrational hate or are they upholding some ideal in terms of justice?

Peace!


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Ms. Sabeti, What is the Matter with you?

by Keyvan Sohbani (not verified) on

Many people have stated how they don't see what you describe as a "racial issue". Instead of confronting this idea and answering people's questions, you call people names. You have called Zion a "zionist", you have agreed to terming him/her as a "creature" and praised it and now you have called me "blind" and "illiterate".

I read all threads and I did not see you answer Zion's questions. Instead you attacked him. I saw and orgy of people in agreement on "we got the scum zionist" instead of answering questions.

I do not see a racial issue with anything you have written about. Racial discrimination and racsim have very specific elements that are just missing from what you are describing here.

Are you going to attack Ms. Flying Solo as "blind" and "illiterate" as well? She is saying the same thing I am saying and others have stated here. Are you going to attack us as "creatures" and "zionists" as well for not seeing what you are claiming or not agreeing with you or posing uncomfortable questions to you?

I will just ignore this IranDokht character as its not even worth responding to.

Khahesh meekonam javabeh soalha ra bedeh! Hameleh nakoan! I you can't just answer the questions than stop attacking people. This includes attacking Zion the "ZIONIST" as he/she has shown more respect and class than some of you here.


Flying Solo

A few comments

by Flying Solo on

Ms Sabety,

I don't seem to be able to pry myself away from this article and the comments for a number of reasons. I used to be an avid reader of your articles in my early addiction days to iranian.com. I managed to control that addiction until the last couple of months whence it has returned.  Not that I ever fully emphathized with you but nevertheless I found it extremely apt that a woman of your standing would hold such concrete stances - at least in thought if not action (I have no idea of your actions). I admired your courage.

In this article, you bring in some very important points. Some are related to the topic of discussion - or at least where it is heading and the others not so.  You seem to suggest - and correct me if I am wrong - that Iranian's hatred of Palestinians is a 'race' issue, and from there the extrapolation of the monarchist and such connected somehow to the current government of Iran which supports the Palestinian cause.  I must admit I know very little of politics in general but I consider myself somewhat knowledgable of race, bigotry, prejudice, color and such.  Afterall I am Iranian - with dark skin and some pretty unconventional ideas. 

While I buy into a great deal of what you say, I still grapple with how this is a race issue. It seems to me that once a person is 'well off' he/she has a very different outlook to 'poverty' and 'class' and the 'plight of the poor'.  This is more to do with class than color.  Iranians have bigotry amongst each other even stemming from the tone of their own skin color. Is this a racial issue?  Iranians are different to their neighboring countrymen. Is this a race issue?  Iranians in diaspora in particular consider themselves a cut above the Iranians in Iran. Is this a race issue?  How is it a race issue to not support the Palestinian cause based on the politics and economy of the occupied territories? It may be a geo-political issue. It may be a class issue. But I cannot see it as a race issue. So please help me out. I am a novice at this.  I see race as color and bone structure - not culture - not placement in the social strata - not pedigree.  How can those facets be denied in who we become? But is that a race issue? Race is dictated by genes which give us our physical appearance and possibly our propensity to certain illnesses.  Aside from that brain matter is not an issue of race nor is standing in one's 'own' communicty or society.  Those are 'acquired' facets.  IMHO of course. 

I recently had the pleasure of company of a dark man whose brother was fair. He claimed that his brother received preferential treatment at home because he had lighter skin. It wsa never a question in his mind whether the treatment stemmed from the brother being better at some things than him.  To me he was being 'racist' - i.e. drawing a straight line from treatment to color, not taking any other factors into consideration. 

Again, I understand this discussion is very deep into the Israeli/Palestinian cause and I hate to break the flow, but really I would want you to give it some thought and others as well and educate me.

Lastly let me share with you a little of my own perspective. I used to fancy myself as a very open minded person -  a liberal - a democrat - an intellectual. That was years ago when , at a party some of my ideas were openly challenged and I got so upset I left the party.  I then realized, much to my horror that in fact I was pretty closed minded.  If I could not 'accept' a view point which may be diametrically opposed to mine - at least hear it out, then that made me , if not fully closed minded - then perhaps merely partially so. 

We all have convictions of course. How admirable and how apt. Those convictions stem directly from our personal experiences in life.  The trick is, whether we can step out of that role, albeit momentarily, and hear out the other side without wanting to gouge eyes out. At the school I attended, the historty teacher held debates whereby the students were given a subject to research and present their findings to the class. What he did do was very interesting. He would switch the notes between the two debaters.  I remember attending one of these debates where one of the in-house Tory supporters had to argue against Margaret Thatcher.  The point the teacher was making was that, I susspose, in order to be good at debates, one needs to be able to argue both sides and give both sides equal opportunity to voice itself.  Listen to Obama and you will see he can and will argue both sides, but he will make his stance clear.  What that does for the listener is give him/her confidence that the 'leader' has knowledge of both sides, understands it, absorbs it and will hear any and all commnets - BUT and here is the big BUT, will be able to offer the more feasible resolution.

Thanks for this article. It has certainly been extremely thought provoking for me.


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Well, actually Hafez, Sa'di, and Molavi WERE Islamic

by Well-wisher (not verified) on

Well, actually Hafez, Sa'di, and Molavi WERE Islamic. Their poetry is largely religious poetry. Which is why Classical Persian culture can be rightly called "Islamicate," to borrow a term from Marshall Hodgson.


Zion

Paranoia Anyone?

by Zion on

There was a mention of paranoia, wasn't there? What was it you said it was evidence of, a twisted mind? Then again, showing what is behind the smiley face of certain "progressives"...that's an "ugly agenda" right there.


IRANdokht

Setareh jan

by IRANdokht on

Mr sobhani spelled his own name wrong and apparently doesn't speak farsi either so the poems confused him too. I wonder how many people who visit this site regularly do not speak the language or comprehend it when written in finglish... coincidence? or an ugly agenda?

Lets agree to not respond to noise, you wrote a nice article and received a lot of valuable comments. Thank you for openly discussing issues that affect us all.

IRANdokht


Zion

My question

by Zion on

...of you was about your assumptions with respect to Iranian racism. How is that related to how many Israelis think what of Gaza? Please clarify.


Setareh Sabety

and this one is a very good read

by Setareh Sabety on

//www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-i...

Many Israelis think like I do! are they racist too?


Zion

Sure

by Zion on

'What you say about moderators is paranoid. This is the most equal opportunity site you can find on the web!'

Sure it is. We see evidence of it all the time, including right here. :-)