می بخور، منبر بسوزان - مردم آزاری نکن

mardom mazloom

don't you find it curious that after your long-winded explanation of fascism and explaining how the iri fits that explanation, the iri apologist merely rejects it willy nilly: "i reject it."  and then goes off on a tangent about the nature of men at home in iran.  the mullahs need time, the ex pasdar says.  what would happen if just simply fascits more time?  time to rape more, steal more, kill more, ...

mazloom khan

i reject the fascist label for iran. however, the things you describe do mirror parts of iranian society. the iranian family unit is extremely hierarchical. physical abuse of children and wives is not uncommon. many men believe their wives are their property. iranian men are schizophrenic about women. saints at home yet chasing all women outside their own homes. iranians drive like they have a death wish. we bicker and backbite like crazy. look at the behaviour of some on this site. we are by nature interfering people and can never stop telling others what to do and how and why. and on top of everything we are as a rule deeply religious and superstitious, and are vulnerable to follow mullahs to extremes, including velayate faqih. once we get rid of such characteristics, a lot of our problems will be over. this process is happening inside iran. and it's the kind of cultural characteristic that a revolution cannot easily change. needs time.

Peace

Niloufar khanoom,

A Fascist state is precisely defined as


Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.

see Grčić, Joseph. Ethics and political theory. Lanham, Maryland, USA: University of America, Inc, 2000. p. 120

Now replace in the above text, strong leadership by Velayat-Faghih and those who commit violence by lebass-shakhssi (plus other signs such as random execution of civilians and no respect of law) and you end up with the ground truth that the actual regime ruling in Iran is a fascist state.

This is not the mirror image of the Iranian society and the reason why there weren’t any “revolutions” to overthrow this diabolic regime yet, is the excessive force that these thugs use against people. As Mohammad Noorizad, the jailed columnist of Keyhan who once didn’t stop to praise Khamenei, wrote him from Evin – stop using the force for one day and you’ll see how your regime is backed by people

//www.sahamnews.org/?p=1837

Do you think that a country can be ruled by just using excessive force?

In my view, Agar dir-o-zood deshteh basheh, sookhto-sooz nadareh, people will come over this savagery, and there is no doubt on that!

Parsi quote...

"i don't quite have 'roots' in sepah. one of my distant cousins was a senior something or the other - i really don't know exactly. but i met him only a couple of times after the revolution. in those discussions, he was quite a sound guy, and i know for a fact he was not corrupt. a totally dedicated man."

Laughable!

AO

your family was wise to not let him marry your cousin. Obviously they love their daughter and don't want her married to a nut. 

Niloufar

you know, we have a pasdar in our family too.  True story.  As a child, he was mentally disturbed to the point that his father had him hospitalized in a mental institution a few times.  He used to strangle their chickens!!!  Serious, I'm NOT making the stuff up.  He was also arrested a few times for attacking young children in the "koocheh".  The parents had complained to the "kalantari".  

After the revolution, he joined the pasdars.  His father told everyone to stay away from him because he was a "crazy person with a G-3 [machine gun]".  The poor guy (father) died shortly thereafter. There was even rumors that this loony bin was a member of the pasdar's firing squads.  He is still a pasdar, a high ranking one from what I hear.  Several years ago he came to a "khastegari" of one of my cousins, but the family said no because he was both a pasdar and he was mentally ill.  They said: "in mardekeh divooneyeh zanjirieh.  farda dokhtaremoon ro mikosheh va hichkas karish nemitooneh bekoneh bekhater inkeh pasdareh".     

jamshid khan

glad to see a different tone. i mean that. it is good to talk this way. i still think you are wrong in some of your political views though :)

i don't quite have 'roots' in sepah. one of my distant cousins was a senior something or the other - i really don't know exactly. but i met him only a couple of times after the revolution. in those discussions, he was quite a sound guy, and i know for a fact he was not corrupt. a totally dedicated man.

re. 'exile': to me, any of us who longs to live back in iran is an exile. i was never a refugee, but i always considered myself an exile. 

as for the family issue. i will have to give a little more detail so you see that the case is not as you imagined. the system of vaqf and how the post of village mullah is handed down meant that my father would have been next in line, but he was secular from a young age. and a monarchist too btw, but not politically involved in any sense. you can imagine that he and i have great arguments! :)

but one thing we have both been agreed on since day 1 of the revolution: we were both against khomeini. but it happened jamshid. we hate it but cannot deny it its own rights.

independence of mind is a beautiful thing, i agree.

Ao jan

with all due respect, his only recourse to legitimacy is as a muslim. if he wants to maintain any credibility, he has to stand by his own fatwas. he could not issue such a politically important fatwa lightly.

btw, you forgot the 'anti' before 'imperialist'! 'imperialist' would be more fitting for you, wouldn't you say? :)

Peace

mazloom khan

hats off. unlike a number of this gang around here you saw what i was trying to say, and gave me a straight answer.

you know that i do not agree with you, but here is a description of why:

the iri is nowhere near being fascist. i know what it is about them that 'feels' fascist. how they treat us women for one. but even if we go with the term 'fascist', iranian misogyny comes from somewhere within iranian culture. iranian men need education not war. 

fixing such problems with the culture cannot begin from the position of 'no engagement'. i mean by us iranians in exile.

foreign governments will do whatever they like. they certainly don't give a damn about iranian women. they only talk about bombs. things they are allegedly 'afraid' of. they should be afraid of mirrors.

a part of this iranian culture is islamic. unfortunately, so is the state. it reflects iranians. it did not have to be islamic, but it is and it resembles majority iranians, and does gross injustice to 15% or so non-shia (rough estimate).

all states reflect their own people. there is no real division between the people and the state in that they are mirror images of each other. neither can appear out of nowhere. a deeply unpopular regime would be removed by now. this is often the case when a regime becomes unbearable or fascistic in the way you and some others depict them to be. and it is particularly the case in iran.

but we can see that it is not happening now. my guess is that it is directly related to the foreign threat issue. the foreign threat is an obstacle to change in iran.

regardless of external factors, and given that revolution is not happening, if an iranian wants to alter her own country's state, she will have to engage with both the people in iran and their state.

she also has the option of joining the war cries of israel and usa. but it seems a terribly poor option to me.

ps i thought this part was about israeli cash all along... :)

vpk: LOL

vpk: LOL

Re: i_support_khamenie:

If you are really in charge of the country I ask you a cople of things:

• I am looking for a nice Quom silk rug about 6 * 8 ; 800 knots per inch or better. I am not paying rip off US prices. What does it take you to get me one? I will pay but only a fair price. Or you can get my papers approved so I go to Quom and buy one myself. Either way.
• The IRI confiscated my home 30 years ago. I want it back. I figure the rent they owe me offsets the taxes and upkeep. So lets just say it is a wash. Just turn over the title to me: VPK and we are good.
• I am trying to set up an outsourcing firm in Iran to take some of the jobs from India to Iran. Why not? Better have the jobs go to Iran than India. So do me a favor and tone down the rhetoric so US won't keep putting up hurdles.

Thanks in advance 

VPK

Spear, take a seat

Spear, like it or not, we are in power and rule the country...

Now, if you imagine you have power and support then it should be enough to make you courageous enough to come out.....but why don't you? what are you afraid of, if you think you and/or your ideas have support amongst the people?

Until you resolve this riddle, you should stick to commenting.....Leave politics to your masters, son!

Niloufar Parsi

I am surprised that you provided information about your family roots in Sepah and among the clergy. I salute you for this and I mean it, because now at the very least, I can understand that you are not one of those lefties turned pro-IRI.

This does not resolve our strong difference of opinion though.

I have two questions. First why do you say you live in "exile"?

Second, what would your political views be if you were born, say in a monarchist family with roots to previous regime's military? Would that mean that you would have automatically become a monarchist?

What I am trying to tell you is that you must not allow your family roots to become the driving force behind your political views. Since we love our family and relatives, we tend to trust them more too. But that could become a trap.

Independence begins with the self. And it cannot be achieved without breaking the chains that binds our views to our family roots. Support the IRI if you will, but don't do it because your family does.

An independent neutral mind can have so much more to offer to herself as well as to her world.

.........

I start dobtting nilo's gender, forget about the political position of the PARSI.

DOWN WITH IRR AND ITS SUPPORTERS.  Maziar

So, Niloufar

We have to now take Khemeni's "fatwa" seriously?  Are YOU serious?!!!

You do know that this is the same guy who said less than a year ago that Ahmadinejad won, right?!!!

BTW, if you read his "fatwa" you will note that it's only against "using" a nuclear weapon.  he doesn't say anything about building and having one. :-)))  You know these mullahs.  They can be pretty tricky!

So, the plan is to build one, and the leave it to his inevitable successor to issue another fatwa modifying or nullifying this one, and allowing for the actual use of the damned thing.   

And that, my dear Niloufar, the aspiring leftist-imperialist, is sure to put a smile on your face. :-))) 

 know because i have

 know because i have family members who are/were involved in government or sepah."

Khob baba jan az aval migofti...I salute you for your honesty.

Do you realize how racist you sound when you say we "defend those with whom we identify with"??? Actually, I feel sorry for you because you sound like you're a victim of brutal Islamists' indoctrination. No wonder your logic is incoherent and incosistent... 

Niloufar khanoom,

I grew up in a European country where autochthons love to derive general characteristics of a group of people from particular observations of few persons belonging to that group. I know that such inductive reasoning led to Nazism and Fascism in Europe and it’s inaccurate in general. That’s why I don’t think that all mullahs are evil either that all catholic abbes are paedophiles.

But I’m convinced that people who took the power in IRI four years ago are Fascists, as they believe that Iran is an organic community that requires a singular collective identity in the name of Vellayat Faghih, and don’t hesitate to commit violence to keep the nation strong in their way.

Khamenei has personally and deliberately defined People (Aam) as those who believe in this kind of Fascist system, hence excluding the majority of Iranians who protested against infamy these nine months. This Sheikhak who became Ayatollah in one night has no real religious auhtority to issue any fatwa except the one for his bloodthirsty son to not kill people so vehemently.

Further, as the head of the Fascist state of IRI with a single worry of keeping power by all means, Khamenei’s void religious fatwa cannot be taken seriously as this sheikhak was the one who ordered the slaughter of Iranians in his first Friday sermon after the elections.

Iran has the right to have nuclear technology as all other countries which signed the NTP treaty; but not under mullah’s rule.

P/S well I think that it’s more difficult to do than to say ;) Everybody would otherwise own it and we weren’t here to discuss about IRI’s right to have one as well.

My god, priceless!!!

Hamsade, I started laughing so hard when I read your bit about the urinal -- so true!!!

now, only if we get her to

now, only if we get her to admit that she uses the urinal when she goes to the public bathroom! 

jenab khers, chakerim.

Samsam,

astutely writes, "Yes, we are who we are & defend who we can identify with the most."

Precisely, which is why she defends the mullahs at every turn 24/7, as she has identified with them since she was a toddler!

She's one of them!

"my own grandfather was a mullah"

Thanks for the transparency & honesty. If only every one would be as semi honest about their ethnic & cultural background then atleast we would get a sense of their reasoning behind their support for either Kiaan or  Ommah. I welcome this not as a point of weakness but forth coming truth. Now unlike hers my GP read Shahnameh, grew up with Kayvan ali khan kiaan bakhtiari, fought against Arab cecessionist shaikh khazaal in Khuzestan& Dad helped drove off pishevary cecessionist in Azarbaijaan. Yes, we are who we are & defend who we can identify with the most. 

So as they say kabootar baa kabootar, baaz baa baaz.

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dokhtar-e-Palestine, aka, "Parsi"

writes: "  i know because i have family members who are/were involved in government or sepah."

That says it all, I guess! When your daddy or dear uncle is up to his eye-balls in anti-Iranian activities, which have made your family well off (in comparison to other poor saps in Iran), it's hard to be objective. 

"many of us do."

Actually, no. Maybe in your twisted circle are part of the sepah. So, by "us" you must mean Hezbo drones, not normal, sane, consciencious Iranians -- a person with a conscience would not be a member of this rapist mafia. EVERY member of the Gambino family is a depraved criminal operative, the same is true with the IRI, specially its leadership.

"i am an iranian in exile a world away"

I highly doubt that you're "an Iranian."

"some mullahs are extremely sound and enlightened people. khatami and montazeri are a couple."

Khatami is sound and entlightened? This is the same mullah, whose presidency witnessed students in 1999 being thrown off 3rd floor balconies, Zahra Kazami being brutally raped and murdered and her fingernails pulled out (under Khatami's presidency), string of murders of intellectuals and journalists in 1997 -- all under his presidency. WHY DIDN'T HE RESIGN??? This is a man who once declared in front of a Friday sermon that "if we follow the words of the Koran, we should mobilize and kill all the non-believers." This man is elightened, according to one-eyed Hezbollahis!

"my own grandfather was a mullah."

Of course, it's all starting to make sense now!

"he was not a rapist. please believe me."

I don't believe you! If you told me that night is dark and day is light I wouldn't believe you, because you have no soul, no moral standing, no conscience, no brain of your own shaping -- nothing.

"mullahs are not demons."

Yes, they are! Since 1851, every time Iran has had a modernizing, forward-looking leader, starting with Amir Kabir, the mullahs have joined forces with their masters, the British, and destroyed that leader. Mullahs would be irrelevant in an enlightened society, that's why they have a vested interest in keeping Iran backward and ignorant, which is why they were always supported by the British, who depend on the natives being backward so that they can steal their resources. 

"they (mullahs) are iranians. real iranians."

No, they're NOT! They're Muslims FIRST. For them, the Islamic Ommah is far more sacred than any nation state, including Iran. As the most famous mullah of them all, mullah Khomeini, once said, "Iran can go up in smoke, so long as Islam survives!"

Enough said. 

"did you know that back in 2003, khamenei issued a fatwa against the production of nuclear bombs?"

That means NOTHING, as shiite vermin (mullahs) practice a stealthily honed art of deception called "taghieh" or dissimulation. Just look up all the massive lies (empty promises) mullah Khomeini uttered in order win the revolution. With these anti-Iranian, turbaned snake-oil salesman the ends justify the means, so they will LIE AND LIE AND LIE, so long as they convince themselves that their LIES serve the purposes of "Islam."

گل گفتی‌ آقای همساده قدیمی‌

این کیسه کشهایه جمهوری اسلامی میگن که اول باید فلسطین درست بشه بعد ایران.  این حربشونه که مردم رو سرکوب کنند.  آخه فلسطین چکار داره به ما؟  گور بابایه عربها و اسرأیلیها.  آخه آدم چقدر میتونه وطن فروش باشه؟  حال آدم رو بهم میزنند.    

mazloom khan

oic. your responses seemed to suggest that i had changed my position. the strange use of 'everything and everybody' was related to the way you seemed to infer that they would basically go nuts with their weapons.

the crimes that were committed last year were despicable and there has to be justice for the victims. but they do not make everyone involved in the regime a rapist or murderer.  i know because i have family members who are/were involved in government or sepah. many of us do. 

i am an iranian in exile a world away, but i know they are not all rapists and murderers. some mullahs are extremely sound and enlightened people. khatami and montazeri are a couple. my own grandfather was a mullah. he was not a rapist. please believe me.

mazloom, mullahs are not demons. and they are iranians. real iranians. they have millions of followers. they are iranians too. so no, i don't think they would use the atom bomb against other people. not more likely than others.

did you know that back in 2003, khamenei issued a fatwa against the production of nuclear bombs? guess for someone who sees all mullahs as rapists, you would not give it any credit. but it is one of the most important things he could have done to signal his own intentions.

ps well if it pays so well, i might as well learn it! can't be that hard! :)

Niloufar khanoom,

I understood that sentence at the beginning as you kindly translated it now ;)

A simple question without too many negatives: Did you expect that mullahs would kill, rape, murder their citizens before the elections ?

Mullahs had sticks (force), they brutally and totally used it against their population. That's a fact not paranoia, right?

Now, why do you think that they'll not use the atomic bomb against other people, when they'll have it?

P/S A lot, you know how to build a bomb ;) ?

mazloom khan

you have misunderstood my sentence. perhaps i wrote too many negatives. the sentence you quote

'as for whether they can be 'trusted' to not destroy everything and
everybody, i trust them.'

actually means - or was meant as - i trust that they would NOT destroy everything and everybody.

ps how much do them zionists pay?! ;)

Spear,

I have no doubt that Japanese or Hitler would have used this weapon before Americans if they had it under hand. No doubt! But they were fascists. What will differentiate a human from a demon (cause fascists are demons) if it is not compassion?

I'm not saying that there are a proper way to make war. (War is ugly, that's all). Nor that Japanese were easy to defeat. I'm just saying with this kind of mentality will end up in the destruction of the planet.

There is no good reason for that. It's just stupid.

Vildemose, OnlyIran, Hamsade and Mazloom

Vildemose -- that was beautifylly written (your 7:43 am post), and deadly accurate -- well done!

OnlyIran -- excellent point... as I said, the Japanese had turned the entire female population in Korea into prostitutes for their soldiers, not to mention the mass crimes in China. And this vile propagandist has the shamless temerity to call me a "racist" for pointing out Japanese war crimes during WWII. By that standard, any historian of Nazi war crimes is a racist!!!

Hamsade -- Very well said, I've always enjoyed your astutely spare comments.

Mazloom -- I agree that if you include radiation victims in the following decades after the bombs were dropped, the number of casualties would be higher. And I further agree that it's a heinous act, to drop bombs on civilians, and I commend your sincere concern (as opposed to the shameless indictments of one Palestinian or other on this site posing as Iranians), but OnlyIran makes a good point, the Japanese war machinery, highly dedicated, zealously loyal and beholden to its cause (brain-washed, really --much like IRI drones), would've undoubtedly prolonged the war for months, if not years, and god only knows how many more American soldiers would have been sacrificed as well.

After all, this was an American president whose primary concern was American lives. I know that's not easy to digest, but these decisions are not made in a vaccum, and the Japanese had a true Kamakazi identity in those days (many times flying their airplanes into American naval ships housing hundreds of American soldiers) -- they were truly devoted to the very end (the label "die-hards" fits them to a tee). I'm not condoning Truman's decision, but again, it's not as easy a call as some would make it out to be.

Onlyiran,

I don't agree that a mass killing with an atomic bomb is the response to atrocities. Even if there aren't any qualifications to name such atrocities.

Mass killings of children/women and men who are in nothing in an ignominy fight is nothing more than pure Savagery.

When Hitler and Mussolini were defeated in Europe, U.S. had no problem to finish with Japan. But in order to avoid devastating loss of soldier's life (who are paid to kill) in a US invasion of Japan, Truman decided to kill innocents to sign the armistice with the emperor as soon as possible. You imagine?

Mazloom, Spear, Vildemose and Hamsadeh

Mazloom & Spear:  While use of nuclear weapons is not something that I condone, in the case of Japan, one must put things in context.  In WWII japan was committing mass genocide and unspeakable atrocities, such as chemical weapons experimentation on live Chinese civilian population, mass executions, rapes, etc.  Estimates are that Japan murdered 3,000,000-10,000,000 people.  

"R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war."

Here's the link: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

So, in the grand scheme of things, the two nuclear bombs put an end to the Japanese war machine that was responsible for ongoing genocide and large scale and systematic crimes against humanity.  Interestingly, most scholars attribute Japan's culture of militarism as one of the underlying reasons for Japans war mongering.  And the culture of militarism is what cloaked IRI supporters such NP propagate day in and day out, with their talk of "nuclear deterrence", their cheering on  of IRI's military build up, etc.

Hamsadeh and Vildemose:  Both of you did a great job in your descriptions of IRI supporters.  But HG jaan, as Mazoolm mentioned, you left out the rudest IRI supporter: Jaleho!