وبلاگ افشاگر حقیقت

I think it all comes down to this

Tell me VPK, if the US went to war (some type of limited or unlimited armed conflict) with Iran for some reason, which side would you be on?

But VPK Jaan

What if the U.S. disagrees with your opinion?  What if a U.S. administration believes that it's in America's best interest for Iran to be torn apart?  Has it done something morally wrong in your opinion as an American citizen?

VPK, I appreciate the word of support and just a note:

As you mentioned, we have had our disagreements and I am sure will continue to do so but it is important to make those disagreements about ideas and thoughts rather personal and I do appreciate you NOT making it personal.  I believe this is the only way we can make headways in creating understandings and dialogue

AO:  As an Iranian-American I personally believe and care deeply in the interest of both countries and as such I believe it is not in US long term interest to invade or destroy Iran integrity if it is not sanctioned by a legal and moral justification.  Any time a nation, even as powerful as US does some thing that is not deemed to be legal or morally right, it only harms its standing in the world and at home and that can not and will not be good for this our nation.

Mehrdad

AO

why should the U.S. guarantee Iran's territorial integrity?  What is
it's in the United State's national interest not to do so?  Then what?

• It will help those opposed to IR to overthrow it. Right now IR is saying that if it goes Iranian territorial integrity will be in danger. If USA were to make this guratanee IR will be robbed of this advantage. USA wants IR goen right? It perfers Iranian people to do it rather than US military. This is why it is in American national interest to make the guarantee I proposed. Do you disagree with me?
• It will help Obama get reelected. If Obama wants Iranian American votes he should court our community. I for one will take this as a major issue. The same way Jewish voters take support for Israel as a voting matter.

Now I have said this at least in 4-5 previous posts. So I hope people read my posts and realize why this is important. It is good for America and for Iran. It is bad for IR so it is what we call a "no brainer". It is not narcissistic and that fact that this is your point of view frankly makes me very disappointed.

VPK, let me ask you this

why should the U.S. guarantee Iran's territorial integrity?  What is it's in the United State's national interest not to do so?  Then what?

The point is this: the U.S. owes Iran and/or Iranians NOTHING!  The U.S. does what is in its best interest.  We need to stop viewing the world through our own narcissistic window.   

PS- re: the numbers: how would you know if the numbers are not reported?!!  In the alternative, what if it was a 1000 troops who committed misconduct?  That's still less than 1%. 

Responses: Unity

1) I do not ask we all unite behind anything outrageous. How about we unite over asking USA to guarantee Iranian integrity. That is support Iranian territorial integrity. Is this acceptable to all; if not please tell me why.

2) Mehrdad did something most of us did not. He fought against Iraq for Iran. That gives him a perspective we lack. I think he deserves a thank you. No matter how much we disagree. Is this acceptable and it not why.

USA

Folks I am not against USA military in general. However the 100 number is a gross under counting. There were many more that did not get reported. 

The invasion of Iraq was wrong and we did not take an oath to support it.

Regarding the cartoon there are Americans who say much worse. For example:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Chur...

On other forums I strongly condemned such actions. There are jerks among all nations. However Mehrdad is not doing that. He is bringing up legitimate issues about the USA military.

Fesenjoon

Yes, I want (hope) Iranian to unite to improve our standing and for a better Iran, a free and democratic and secular Iran.  I also hope us to unite to improve US foreign and demotic policy. 

And no one is asking you to decline your support for the Armed forces, only to those wrong polices which puts the Armed forces in a harms way without any REAL justification.  The Iraq war has cost us over 4500 US service man’s lives and countless Iraqis with no legal justifications and that has only worsened the US standing in the world and strengthen the IRI.  Now if you deny this, then I can’t really say much only to hope one day you can open your eyes to the facts.

Mehrdad

Fesenjoon Jaan

Please see my response to AO. Of course we must do better. No question Yes we should do more.

My last post explained why I think Iranians avoid politics. It was a very dangerous business in Iran. Now it is a part of our culture. However we have fine professors etc. The Iranians I hang out with are not unusual.

The Wiki thing actually tells me people are more assimilated. Many of us do not want to be known as minorities. We want to be known as regular Americans so we do not go around sticking the IRANIAN behind American at the first opportunity.

The part about people not wanting assimilate is no different than any other group. Read the history of Irish or Italian immigrants. It is the same story. However we are mote like the Irish and Italians than say the Latin Americans.Just see how Spanish speakers do not even bother to learn English. They demand all business be done in Spanish.

Of course there are Iranians who are here because of the situation in Iran. They do not want to live here. They just don't want to be hanging off a crane. So they are here temporarily. They are refugees and will likely go back when things change. Honestly I am in between. I thought I wanted to stay but as time passed I changed. As I get older I want more and more to go back and live at home. When I had kids I realized that the American society has the wrong values for my children. Unfortunately Iran also has some major problems. Therefore I will not go back now. But with the IR gone and a half decent system I will go back. I miss Iran too much and believe I can do things to help her. I want to do what my Indian friends do. I already told you: a software outsourcing business to ship jobs to Iran. Is this assimilation? Maybe not but it will be good all around. No part of my plans will violate my oath to America. I will be helping Iran and America.

VPK

Fesenjoon. just think about it

more than a 155,000.00 U.S. troops in Iraq now for more than seven years (including my cousin who did a year there before he went to Afghanistan).  How many of them committed misconduct? A 100 total? That's a lower crime rate than any given city around the world, and it's actually a testament to the professionalism of the U.S. military. And we're talking about teenagers with massive fire power. And of course, in all this condemnation by the usual suspects, you never hear a word about Iraqi, other Arab and IR supported groups in Iraq that decapitate civilians there because of religion, etc., or pour gasoline on a six year old boy and set him of fire for no reason. 

Bavafa

No mehrdad,

What you want is for Iranians to unite with YOU!

Im not going to abandon my respect for the US armed forces, just because theyre engaged in wars here and there. I'd rather have the Americans fucking around the world, than have the Chinese or Russians or IRI do it.

And Im not going to decline my support for US Armed Forces just because a bunch of dumbasses fucked up AbuGhuraib, or an admiral shot down an airliner back in '88. That's absurd. We forget that the same armed forces removed Saddam from power, who killed half a million Iranians. They removed Taliban from power who cut off ears and noses of women. I choose not to be namak-nashnaas.

My oath of allegiance to the US flag was real, not fake.

If this country has shortcomings, I'll be that change, not expect it. (thank u Gandhi)

Escape

boro khoda omret bede. Baz felesteen ro ba kar ghati kardi? We are talking Iran not Palestine for God's sake. Go to palestine.com if you are so worried about them. 

VPK

All of what you said doesnt say anything about Iranian-Americans. It only shows what type of crowd you hang out with. Anybody can likewise come and say "I know alot of Iranian-Americans, and theyre such and such". een ke nashod melaak.

The facts are that Iranians have a stubbornly low rate of assimilation into American society. The facts are:

1. Dismal participation in the Census: We wouldnt have only 330,000 Iranian-Americans counted in the 2000 Census. 330000! Iranian-Americans are so good at avoiding Census Bureau forms that they had to make a video begging them not to avoid it in 2010. Im sure youve seen it.

2. Low civic participation: Studies like this openly state: "While recent Census data shows that Iranians are one of the most successful ethnic minorities in the U.S., both in terms of education and wealth generation, they are disproportionately underrepresented in the American political arena. As a community, Iranian-Americans have little experience of participating in civic activities. Therefore there is a gap between the desired level of participation and the capacity to motivate and organize such involvement. This study is an attempt to provide the Iranian-American community with a perspective of why such participation is important...."

3. So tell me VPK, after 40-50 years of immigration, what's the highest we've ever been involved in? Goli Ameri? Vali Nasr? Jimmy Delshad? Is that it? Can u even name me one Iranian-American high ranking official in the DOJ, DOD, State Dept, Supreme Court? Even one!

So no VPK jaan, not only are Iranian-Americans not assimilated, they are far from it. They basically act as educated succesfull foreign guests merely living here. You said it yourself: you will go back to Iran after the IRI falls. Youre basically openly admitting that youre only a temporary guest here. That's not assimilation. 

Conclusion: When one doesnt consider oneself as part of a community and defines themself as an outsider guest, it then becomes very easy for them to throw around phrases like "may the NAVY rot in hell" or "Americans are stupid" or "Americans are perverts". And that was my point. Iranians eat both from Toobreh and from Akhor. How else can you justify cartoons like this, when the artist himself is willingly living in the same democracy he professes hatred for? 

AO Jaan

You are mostly right. We do need more political power. I am a strong advocate of it. Actually the mayor of Beverly Hills is an Iranian. It takes time; so let us not beat ourselves up. Rather let us get our act together and get a move on it.

One big problem with us is that we are bred to avoid politics in Iran. This has remained a part of our nature. My father used to practically demand I keep out of politics. Two of  my cousins were leftist political types. One was killed during the Shah's time (not by the Shah or Savak). The other got thrown in jail by IR then got ou thank God. We need to understand that in America we need not be afraid of politics. We must join it and go in full power!

Our other problem is lack of unity. Just see NIAC: half the people hate it the other support it. This is not a bad thing; we need not all agree. But we should not tear things down either. We should form more organizations. This is what we have:

• Christian Ammanpour
• Several low level elected officials.
• NIAC
• PAAIA
• Local Iranian organizations with only local power.

It is pretty weak; alright? I grant that without even a question. But we have the money and the votes to act. I think it is time for a California based Iranian American lobby. Get an umbrella organization created with a modest agenda we all agree upon. Then work WITH NIAC and PAAIA and others to achieve them. How about a single goal. These should be pretty acceptable to ALL Iranians.

• Have US publicly announce its support of Iranian territorial integrity.
• Have US officially accept Persian Gulf as the right name.

This should be fine with right; left; Monarchist; Marxist; Islamist and anyone else. Let us get this one thing done. Then use that as a basis for greater things.

I 'll go back to my original response

A good blog with some valid points, yet it serves more to divide us rather uniting us.  The challenge to all of us, at least those who are at least half sincere in improving both Iranians power and preception in US and at home, to do and write with the goal of uniting us.

Mehrdad

The Jesus Constitution?

  There is a Jesus constitution in America yet you can't see the Islamic jihad in Palestine..

And VPK Jaan - where has all of that gotten us?

We have zero political power in the U.S.  And political power is what counts.  The Arabs have John Abizaid, Donna Shalala, Spencer Abraham, Daryl Issa, etc., the Japanese have Gen. Eric Shinseki and all of these people,the Indians have Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley, the Cubans have Marco Rubio, Mel Martinez and Robert Menendez, and who do we have?  Our highest ranking political figure in the U.S. is probably Ross Mirkarimi of the San Francisco City Council (only half Iranian anyway).  The reason for this is that we suck at assimilation.  Hell, we’re still wallowing in pain about what happened in 1953 and won’t be happy until we get our pound of flesh from the U.S to compensate us for Kermit Roosevelt’s bragging in his memo 60 years ago!!  That’s a problem that no amount of education and self adulations about how good we are will fix.   

Fesenjoon Jaan

Thank you for your clarification. I know a lot of Iranian Americans. People who have lived here anywhere from 10 to 30 years. Here is how I measure their assimilation:

• All of them except for the very elderly speak perfect English.
• They all participate in elections and have a pretty good idea of what various parties stand for. Most of them are Democrats.
• Around 1/3 of them are married to non-Iranians. Either American or Europeans.
• Some have kept their Iranian heritage. Others are 100% American specially ones who moved here before the revolution.
• They have not formed Iranian "Gehtoes". They intermingle with Americans.
• Most of them have American friends. I personally have very good American; Indian; and a few Israeli friends. My three best friends from college are Americans: two Christians and one Jewish.

So to me there are anecdotal signs of assimilation. On the other hand I have not lost my sense of being Iranian. If the IRI goes I am going back to Iran. I want to go back and I will go back. My new year is NoRouz and there is no question of it. However I do celebrate Thanksgiving and for the sake of my friends Christmas. I do not agree with those who try to ban Christmas from schools. I think that is very silly. I respect the American constitution specially the bill of rights.

So here it is. You may draw your own conclusions. I am not sure how long you have been here or if in fact you live in America or in Europe. My experience is based on living in America not in Europe. So if you live in Europe you will have a different one. Anyway, I got to go now. Good luck and let me know what you think.

doc

raast meegee baba.

Better go watch The Nuggets game.

VPK I tend to agree with Your version!

Where I live Iranian community is very small, but for whatever is worth most/all your points are valid about them. ... I have seen many 'pure' American Republicans trash U.S (after Obama came to power), but not as many Iranians do the same (comparatively), as they are mostly Democrat. Probably Festerjoon spends too much time with Iranian Republicans!

Fesenjoon

You are wasting Your breath man.

VPK

I never said to be "loyal to any particular leader". Did I? One would think that the message of this blog should by now be clear.

The blog isnt about the success of Iranian-Americans. It's about their resistance or failure to assimilate.

Loving your nation

is like loving your children. I love my kids but when they do wrong I tell them. It would be negligent of me not to. The brother of the UnaBomber went as far as to turn him in. Did he do the right thing? Does love of family mean we have to side with them when we believe they are committing crimes? Maybe Mehrdad thinks America is doing wrong. Is it not his duty to speak out? Is it not an expression of his loyalty to his oath to do so. I dare say he is doing exactly what his oath demands of him.

Fesenjoon Jan

I am not here to defend Mehrdad as I have had disagreements with him before. However he does have a point. The oath was to be loyal to America and to uphold its constitution. Not to be loyal to any particular leader.

If I feel that Bush is violating that constitution I would be bound to say it. In fact it is that very oath that makes some criticize Bush. 

When he cheated in the elections it is the duty of good Americans to point it out. Plus opposing wars is a long held tradition in America. From the days of the Quakers and conscientious objectives people have opposed wars. I happen to support the Afghanistan war. However I have many American friends European background who disagree with the war. Non violent protests and civil disobedience are honorable American values. From Martin Luther King to Lewis Hill the founder of Pacifica network there were Americans who opposed was policies. We as American citizens have a duty based on our oath to follow our conciseness. If we believe the constitution is being violated then we must voice our opinions in non violent ways.

Bavafa

There is no such thing as a "red blood American".

You become a red blood American the moment you are sworn in as a US citizen. Then it's up to you to become an America-hater, or, a Governor or a Senator. That's the beauty of it.

My version

Here is my version of some Iranian Americans I know. 

• Ones with some of the highest levels of education in America.
• Ones with lowest levels of criminal activity.
• Lowest number of people on welfare.
• High income contributing greatly to American tax base.
• Some of the best entrepreneurs around including the founder of Ebay. Here is a link with info: //www.siliconiran.com/about_us/press_releases... . I helped found a high tech company that employed 20 people. Not IBM but a heck of a lot better than going on welfare or robbing others.
• Every one of us learns and speaks near perfect English.
• We do not demand special treatment.
• We do not demand schools teach us in Farsi.
• We do not go around blowing people up.
• Among Iranian Muslims are the most moderate.
• Iranian neighborhoods are safe and we raise the property values rather than bring them down. People like to have us around.
• High level of commitment to family values. Instead of talking the talk we walk the walk. Nice!

In short: We have nothing to be ashamed of. Instead we are model immigrants and model citizens. America should be and is proud to have us as its people.

The only thing I am ashamed of is not having been in Iran to help defend it. Both against IR and against Iraq. But no one is perfect and I try to make up for it.

COP- Precisely my point

I don't know what kind of main stream American you mingle with, I wouldn't be surprise though to see that kind of reaction from the "loard" beating chest Americans, the sort of Islamist/Wahabist version of American.  But I try to mingle  with the main stream Americans that still believe in US constitution as oppose to Jesus constitution as the law of land and that constitution gives all of us the right to critisize any one we fill like to.  And consequently more often times those criticisum has resulted in making this nation a better place, like getting rid of slavery or allowing women to vote or ending wars such as Vietnam.

AO: If you have a better defination for those who invaded Iraq illigally, then I am all ears.. but add a pinch of logic to it, will you?

Yeah I know, they should just forget about that. Afterall it was all 8 years ago and we should now get stock in the past, right?

 Now if you want to talk about the oath... go and first re-read what that oath was and then we can talk.  I did not take a oath to follow a drunk turned Jesus freak.  The oath is to hold and protect the constitution and this country,  Such war is only destroying this country.

Mehrdad

mehrdad - AO

"Good fucking lord that you are not of a couple of generation old here, we don't quite see such statement from the red blood Americans."

Actually, if you mingle with and are involved with main stream america, you do hear such statements, and they are absol- fucking-utaley right. And hey...don't use the name of the good Lord in vein...wink wink

AO jon, all you have to do is look at some of the comments by well-known islamists aplogists and those who lable everyone as zionist here to see they are proving this blog's point.

Not you Mehradd, I actually think there's hope for you!

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IRAN FIRST

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Pretty lame Magas...as usual you're not funny...

and Shahi is your ammeh!

Bavafa, take it easy with AO!

AO said: "I even tried to enlist in the U.S. Navy a few years back, but was turned down because of a congenital heart defect"

Bavafa, usually Shahis only have that issue without the con part, please have more sympathy with AO!