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Merit in USA

Someone told me once how nations pick the pecking order:

• USA: How much money you got
• Germany: How much education
• France: How much class you got
• England: Your breeding
• Iran: you tell me

Fesenjoon

I said it depends on the situation and it does depend on the situation. I will take a position based on fact after careful analysis. Many people were ready to oppose the Shah no matter what. That did not work well. I do oppose IR no matter what. But I only support USA if it makes sense. USA is not our friend; it is manipulated by lobbies. My suggestion is to first lobby the USA to be on our side. Then side with the USA.

You know I am an opponent of IRI not an opponent of Iran. If there is a war I will evaluate it and then decide what my position is. I am not going to commit to a position based on emotion before knowing all the facts.

If for example it is IR vs Iranian people then I side with Iranian people. One thing we learned from the last revolution is that it may always get worse. Here are some situations where I would not support the USA.

• If the USA wants to help Arabs take a part of Iran away. I oppose it.
• What if it is USA wants to replace IR with MKO ? I oppose that.
• What if USA wants to divide up Iran into ethnic regions. I oppose it.

My friend I have lived in USA long enough to know they are not "good". They act in their own self interest. Frequently they make mistakes and screw it up. Therefore I will not commit to a position until I know what it it. Any other action is illogical.

VPK

A hundred thousand or more of Iran's opposition have been executed and killed since 1979, 30000 alone in '88, Iran is the world's largest executioner every single year, the world's largest prison for journalists, they stone and chop hands off, they kill people for their beliefs, they eliminate minorities, and theyve reduced Iran to the scum of the earth in almost every category in only a matter of 30 years,...

and you tell me you dont know which side to take in a war because "The moral thing depends on what is happening and who attacks who"???!!!!

Well my friend, now you know why I keep saying The glorious Islamic Republic of Iran will outlive both you and me and our children.

Youre basically telling me you dont want to fight them! Well I have news for you: The IRI isnt going away by itself. It never will. NEVER. Have u ever seen a cancerous tumor go away by itself? And it will keep spreading until nothing is left of the body.

While you dont want to fight an IRI soldier because he is your supposed hamvatan, the IRI soldier will do everything in his power, to kill you and your family, as long as it means hefz-e nezaam. Who knows, the kid who puts a bullet in your head might be ParthianShot himself, brainwashed anti-American sleeper-cell agents of the Islamic Republic :-)

Keep dreaming on my friend.

With such thinking as yours, both me and you will take the dream of a free Iran to the goor with us. At least Ive made peace with myself in accepting America as my new home. But you? You will keep singing the song of ghorbat until your very last day. mota'sefam.

fesenjoon

Na baba. I was busy keeping up with the Breast Cancer Seminar Being held in town. I don't hang out with just any Koor or kachal:))

San Antonio had a Sheer dossheedan school and Ma nemidonesteem??:))

Vieled prophet

Yea, I agree, even if America was perfect in everyway I would still not abandon Iran, cause it's my true nation, and in these times it needs all the help it can get, I mean if we Iranians-Persians don't do it then who will?

Further more, I would never trade in my 3000 year old history and heritage for a 300 year old one that non of my ancestors even fought for.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

merit matters in the U.S, as Parthianshot said

As Parthianshot said it, "Stop sucking up to people ...". One of the main things that differentiates America with many other countries (specially Iran) is that merit matters here more than many other countries in the world (in general). By doing good work you have a better chance of being accepted than playing patriot (start by working more and typing less, perhaps).

Merit, Merit, Merit, ... still matters in the U.S, no need for brown nosing.

What is a patriotic American

Folks, I do not claim to be the most patriotic American in town. However I did these:

• I go out of my way to buy American when at all possible. I paid 600 $ to get a top of the line American madeconvection overn when I could have got a Chinese made one for ~60 $. Ipay twice as much to get OJ made of American oranges. Because I want jobs to stay in America. The only exception is for Iranian made products when I try to get things made in Iran so I can help Iranian people get some work.
• I make regular donations to American veterans funds.
• I donate care packages to soliders fighting in Afghanistan.
• I lobby congress to increase benefits for active duty and veterans.

Now does that make me a "Patriotic American" I don't really care. I think it is the right thing to do.

Fesenjoon

I had "on a more moral grounds" discussion in mind. My question was hypothetical:

The moral thing depends on what is happening. Who is attacking whom and why? Who is on whose soil. 

The reason really isnt important. 

It is to me; the reason is everything. I have to decide who is in the right and who is in the wrong before taking sides.

On moral grounds I would find it impossible to fight against Iranian soldiers when they are defending Iran. I am not going to fire upon people who are my own nation.  Specially if the USA was the aggressor.  Now if Iran were to invade USA then I will fight to protect USA but we both know that is not going to happen.

On the other hand if the IR soldiers were repressing democracy protestors that is different. I have no problem fighting basiji or other IR goons. For example if IR were to employ Hizbollah to attack Iranian people then I will be willing to fight the IR Hizbolahi forces. This is not that far fetched since it already happened. The key word is that I am on the side of IRAN not IR.

I am not going to give a blanket answer because it is not possible. These are not simple questions and do not have simple answers. The  people who shoot whomever they are told tend to be young over-testosteroned men. That is exactly why military favors young hot head bi-mokh young men. I am too old to listen to "shoot them up" slogans by some general.  

By the way this is nothing new. Many Americans have a similar feeling as mine. They will fight to defend America. They will not fight to defend Exxon's profits. Or so George Bush can get his yayas. 

Going back

My reasons for wanting to go back are not that America has problems. They are not that America is bad; it is just not my home. I am Iranian and really do not want to permanently immigrate to anywhere else. In time IR will be gone and I will go back. Even if America becomes heaven I still want to go back. Plus 9 years of marriage to an American woman taought me this society is not for me. Too many differences.

It is interesting because I have been pretty well accepted by Americans. I have light skin and green eyes. I look less Eastern and most Americans can not tell I am Iranian until I tell them. Nevertheless I do not run away from my Iranian identity. I embrace it. I have taught my children that they are Iranian even though their mother is American. All my kids will tell you they are Iranian without a moment hesitation.

I came here to get a PhD and go back not to immigrate. I stayed after that dumb ass revolution. Once IR is gone I plan to go back. I may decide to teach in a university in a province (I like Isfahan and Shiraz; NOT Tehran). Or I may do the outsourcing firm thing or both. Who knows; only time will tell.

Not even the americans want you

Stop sucking up to people, Espeically when they don't want you. Americans = Whites of Northern european background, the blacks and Italians and the other southern europeans are barely even considered as Americans. Asians are just laughed at, Latinos are looked upon as invaders of Amrika, and mid-easterners, well, when do you see a mid-easterner becoming a president or any political figure anytime soon? I refuse to suck up and give allegiance to a nation that despises my kind and ridicules it.

 You just seem like a wannabe. Not even the Americans want you. 

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Who's willing to go back to Iran now or in the future?

Let's say we're moving back, I know I am in the future, no matter what happens. If most Iranians are going to move back when this regime changes, then why should we make an oath or an allegiance to America? Maybe if I was gonna plan to stay here for the future, forever, I would care more about the U.S and American politics, and be proud, while at the same time keep my Iranian/Persian legacy and heritage, but guess what? I'm not, nor do I plan to. 

I'm moving back to Iran. good luck with your Latino take over problem, I just don't wanna be a part of this American misery.

America just has way too many problems, mainly socially, for it to be my country. I see it collapsing, so no thanks.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

So who are we?

Someone says we're all patriots when it comes to our fatherland Iran no matter where we go, then another says we are selfhating sellouts when we move here, so who do we believe? Make your mind up people. 

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

VPK

I had "on a more moral grounds" discussion in mind. My question was hypothetical:

Lets say that for whatever reason they go to war. Like some Navy vessel and a sepaah boat exchange fire, then things escalate. The reason really isnt important.

Then what? how would u side? Would u still go to prison for withdrawing your support against a war against IRI's army?

AO

Actually, I have the caricature ready.

But I cant find your email on any "contact" section. (Or maybe Im looking at the wrong place).

Anyway, give me an anon email account, so I can send it to.

mokhles 

rastee Doktor

unrelated to this thread,

I hear that the recent guys arrested by the FBI were your hamshahri!!

farsi BBC has written about them too.

If I'm not mistaken, these are the guys that were funding San Antonio's Shia school. Do u know them?

You might want to clarify some questions going on here, if u like.

Fesenjoon

The Taliban were directly responsible for an attack on USA : 911. There is not really not much choice for America other than to take them out. The IR victims are Iranians. Therefore America has not been attacked by IR. Putting my "American" hat on I would say America has not the same level of reason to attack IR.

Putting my Iranian hat on  I am worried about a botched job that will result in:

• Lots of innocent people killed in Iran.
• Possible fragmentation of Iran. 
• IR remains in power except it is more brutal like a wounded animal.
• Iranian people may get "gheirati" and end up supporting the IR which is NOT what I want.
• Nuclear sites wrecked resulting in lots of pollution.

Remember USA does even claim to want to remove IR. They just want the nuclear thing gone. I have said before if they hit IR but half baked it will make things much worse. Both for Iranian people and for USA. I do want IR gone but in an effective way. Doing lots of damage AND keeping IR in power is not justifiable.

Show me a plan that actually works and then we can discuss it. This stuff about "surgical strikes" is just a pipe dream. It will never happen. The only effective way to take out IR would be a full fledged attack. Is USA either up for it or able to do it? Does Obama have the stomach for it? Will the Republicans support him. I do not want Iran to become a football in internal American politics. So far I have seen nothing to make me think such an attack will be good for Iran or USA.

Fesenjoon

Head be heade mellat nazar . Be karo zendegit beres  marde hessabi:))))

VPK

Of course I respect your position. It's a free country, man.

So let me see now if I have it right:

Youre OK with the US military fighting the Taliban in a war, but not OK with fighting the armed forces of IRI? How so?

Fesenjoon Jaan

I am over 50 years old so the question is moot. If asked to fight I would refuse to take up arms and take the position of conscientious objector. I would rather go to jail than to take up arms in a war I find unjust. I would not be the first one. Many fine Americans have done so. It is also a part of my spiritual path. 

I am not a Muslim but I am not atheist. I have my own beliefs that prevent me from killing in an unjust war. That decision is solely mine. Based on the Nuremberg trials it is a DUTY of a soldier to refuse an unjust order. "Just following orders" was deemed wrong by the AMERICAN justice system at that time; the rule still applies. Hence because of my oath I am bound to take that position. On the other hand I will fight the Taliban if I it was asked from me. Because it is the right thing. 

We are not robots or slaves. As free people we are responsible for our own decisions both by law of man and God. No one is allowed to force another person into war against their will. I hope you can respect my position.

VPK

AO

I said "Petition the Government". Obviously there is no guarantee they will agree. In fact different administrations have different positions. For example Nixon considered the Shah a great friend. But Jimmy Carter hated the Shah. All I say is that we form a united front and be good Americans. Just like any good American request that the government listen to our position.

However the right to lobby is is one of our constitutional rights.

Here is the text of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the USA. I propose we use this very important right as any GOOD AMERICAN would do!

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Doktor Mohandes

Cindy Crawford? Shes so 90s, man. Shes better off doing furniture commercials.

Dude, dont go too far. Hameen Lady gaga is one teekkkkeh (especially heikal-wise from 3:50 onward). bebeen!

Even the Catholic church got pissed off on the video. :-)

That's cool Fesenjoon. I'll wait

.

AO

dude, I'll do the caricature. Dont post the blog until I email u the image.

That's right HG Jaan

The holidays are right around the corner, and you know that the guys that you mentioned are on a shopping frenzy in all the "Western", Jew infested capitals of the world.  So, it will be a good thing for them to put in some overtime.  I'm just tryin' to help the brothers out you know.  :-)

And as far as the blog photo, I have a good one in mind in Fesenjoon's honor, who started this whole thing.   :-)

ao

این‌های که به رژیم ولایت وقیح وفادارند، چه همایشی‌ها، چه سفارتی‌ها، چه "عُمانی"های بوگندو و غیر ایرانی‌های ضدّ ایرانی‌ آب از دهنشون داره میریزه برای همچین بلاگ.  چه اضافه کاری! اون هم وقت کیریسمس!

آقای دکتر، میشه به علاوه عکس لخت زن امریکایی، یه عکس لخت زینب خانومی و یا زهرا فاطمه‌ی که یه نوار "یا علی‌ اصغر" بر سر دارند بگذاری؟

I think you should do it

But I hope you have the foresight as not to make a “you are either with us or against us”  but enough detail so one can comment.

DM: While you are on that project, make it Angelina Jolie, will U?

Mehrdad

OK - That'll be my weekend project

doctor mohandes: Sorry.  I can't photoshop. If you can, do it, and email to me through the "contact" link and I'll post it. :-)

Yeaaa

and Stick Cindy crawford's nude photo with a roosari up there so it generates even more curiosity:)

AO

Do it!! Write the blog! It's a superworthy topic:

"If it comes down to some form of armed conflict, whose side would u be on? and why."

I'd love to see the anti-Americanists try to wiggle their way out of that one!

Name the blog something like "Iran-US armed conflict. Whose side will u be on?". That way, it will attract lots of comments.

You beat me to it Fesenjoon...

I was gonna do a blog on that question....

Damn it!!!!! May be I'll do it anyway.  :-))