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Lesson # 3

Per Trita Parsi:

3. Influence comes to those who work hard to earn it

"Within the American democracy, the influence of a group directly correlates to the extent and intensity of its participation in all aspects of the political system—everything from engagement in the public debate to volunteering, voting and political fundraising, and to running for office. The system is geared towards rewarding intense participation and punishing self-marginilization and apathy."

AO

You don't win any hearts and minds on IC and especially with the silent readership by acting like an interrogator for the regime.

a.h., then your definition

a.h., then your definition of "american" seems to be problematic and does not match normal useage (A native or citizen of the United States).

the reason that trita is comparing iranian-americans (which he is not) to jewish-americans or israeli-americans is because he's obsessed with israel as are all the pro-regime (and pro-niac) userids on this site.  does he dare contrast israel's treatment of jews (hint: even the israeli murderer of israe's p.m. didn't get the death sentence) versus iri's treatment of its citizens.

AH

Fair enough.

Whatever works for you.

To me, It would not be convincing enough to hear someone saying: "well at first i was so enthusiastice about so and so organization, and i find their platforms very attractive and practical, and don't get me wrong i am still rooting for them...BUT Their position on such and such issue seemed a bit flawed to me...so i walked out" 

I seriously doubt that their rather weak stance on IRI could havee constituted a strong reason for anyone, not just you, to leave. 

This could mean two things:  

1- you gave them a thorough look and did enough research to know they don't care anything about the atrocities of iri and the human rights issues in iran as hg has said many times YET knowingly Decided to join regardless. 

2- you were simply clueless as to who they were, and really had no good reason to join, and did it for fun and to alleviate the bordem. Meeting some people...going on picnics...and all other social goodies. 

Vasalam. 

HG -I have an eerie feeling that I know that "professor" as well

I have heard the LOL's.

Why the angry comments Ala joon, and why the lies?

AO, you do not have my permission to use my name as I have not used your bogus name for over a year. 

So, this is not you from back in February?

//iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous-observer/lol-youre-stupid

Now, I'm not a "professor" or anything (actually was for a while), but I count that to be five months, and five months appears to be seven months less than a year.  There are more recent ones too, but I'm too lazy now to go look for them.   

But, let's forget about your foam at the mouth comment.  Can you just answer my question please...pretty please with sugar on top?  And the question is, again, have you ever criticized the IR in any way during your more than a decade long presence on IC?   

HG, I did not mean

by American the ones you mentioned that have GC and visit US for checkups. But let's not forget that all people who come as students to US and then obtain GC through work and/or marriage with a us citizen or a green crad holder, have a long path to become US citizen.

But why Trita is even comparing Iranian Americans with Jewish Americans? Iranian Americans are from a country that US has had un-friendly relations for 30 years, most Iranian Americans oppose IRI and many had to leave Iran not to be persecuted. On the other hand, Jewish Americans, if they support Israel, they are supporting a country that has excellent relations with US. Most jewish Americans are not against Israel and they did not leave Israel in order not to be persecuted.. In summary, this is a flawed comaprison between Iranian Americans and jewish Americans. If we really wanted to compare Iranian Americans with another Diaspora population, perhaps one closer would be Vietnam. Even Vietnam has not had as bad relations with US as Iran has had with US.

zolfali, good luck in the

zolfali, good luck in the community college. i have also heard of dr. kalak who was also known as the "professor who loled too much." he was a 6-tigheh hezbollahi who reported on what he called "vatan foroosh" iranians to supplement his income. he always wanted to know the identity of anti-iri students.  he loled all the way to the bank.

Low life members who sell their country...

AO, you do not have my permission to use my name as I have not used your bogus name for over a year.  I gave up on you and the likes of fesenjon and AI long time ago.  AO, you prove to be dishonest person about who “flagged,” your comment(s).  I have not visited this site for four hours. I challenge IC admin. to display who flagged AO comments to shut him up, because this lunatic is not his first accusation

I am amazed how low lives who sell their country of origin are free to spew non-senses daily on Iranian.com where they have contributed none or very little.  If it was not for my financial contributions from 1996-2006, IC might not be around for bogus members to spew non-senses 24/7.

 I guess this is what IC or some IC bogus members call "Freedom of expression."  The low lives are hiding while asking others to express their views.  This is a good reason WHY Iran has not changed or will not change.  Low lives are waiting for greener pastures to hide their identities once again, I guess.  The lazy bums can cut and paste few of my comments and draw their conclusions.  Several members have criticized my tie, my look, while hiding theirs.  What does this tell to honest members? 

AO jaan, I am highly educated relative to the other folks....

from my village who unlike me did not win green card lottery to US! in fact i and my story of success in pizza business in amrika has made me a celebrity figure not only in my own village but in every village within the 50 mile radius of varamin! 

but i'm working on my education. i am in the proces of applying to our local community college, which used to have an iranian professor on it's academic staff list, before he was fired for LOLing too much on the job, and mis spelling his own name!

a.h., why take my word?

a.h., why take my word? look up in a dictionary.  google it. 

here's one: of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants: an American citizen.

i know many parents of friends with g.c. who live in iran and come here for doctor check ups and family visits.  now, is that what you mean by american? 

btw, i couldn't find any definition of american which explicitly includes g.c. holders.  i'd be interested to see it. but as i said, you can consider any "inhabitant" of u.s. as an "american" whether they just crossed the border yesterday without any papers, have g.c., naturalized citizen or born in the u.s.  for me, the last two are considered americans and the rest are in the process or are not interested. 

DM

for me position of an Iranian American organization regarding IRI is not a simple thing. It is of outmost importance. So I suppose when I was member of NIAC, I thought that they are more anti IRI. Now, I think they are not as anti IRI, so I don't want to be a member.

AH

Look anahita,

I am not responsible for what you "make" out of my comments to you or how you interpret them. I just stated my opinion. You THINK weird was what i had in mind but hey, that is NOT what i clearly stated. 

and I do completely understand your position. All I am saying is that why would You or anyone else for that matter, decide to cancel their membership because of one simple, be it a major or a minor, disagreement. What about everything else that attracted you to them in the beginning?

You are free to assume anything that you do or don't , is logical or not. Others may not feel the same and they absolutely have that right.

Mohammad Ala - instead of flagging my comments

here and elsewhere, why don't you prove me wrong by providing an example where you have been critical of the IR in the past 15 years since you've been on IC.  There must be something where you have disagreed with the IR in the past 33 years, no?  Let's start by the executions of tens of thousands in the 1980's by the IR.  Agree or disagree with that?  Please tell us.  

DM

again, I don't agree with their present policies. I don't seem to be able to make you understand my position. even though it is a very easy one. I was once member, I am not but whatever claim you or any other commentator make about NIAC, I amy or may not agree with it. You never said I lied but I think you act as if my position is a weird one where it is a very logical one.

AH

No i was not talking about you per se. 

I never claimed you lied about anything. I just think it does not make any sense to abandon a party, organization, yet continue to agree with it from afar. You may disagree with one of their positions, but looking at the big picture and doing an overall assessment of what was it that made you join them, should count for something and give you a pause before you quit.

Also, i did not say they get GC at the port. Those officers at the port of entry make the claim that if you guys don't want to stay in the US and just use it to travel back and forth, then you are really using it as a visa or a mere entry permit.

I agree with your last line. a lot of them do go through those routes. 

DM,

If you are talking about me, when you write

"And the big question here is when you see them not taking a position you would want them to take, and decide to get the heck out of the dodge, why still continuing to admire them and with all that you have got? "

I don't admire them but not admiring does not mean that I have to lie about them to make those even more against NIAC happy. Also many green card holders obatain it not at their port of entry but after yaers of living in US. For instance, people who come to US to go to college and then obtain green crad through their work or by marriage, it will take them many years to become citizen.

Ayatoilte aziz: We can do without the “khan” portion….

One would think congratulation should be in order if NIAC truly has become so powerful so “organizations like NIAC have hijacked the public sphere and do NOT allow other messages to get through”.

 It also speaks volume about ourselves, doesn’t it.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

What an argument.

My take on this issue is, as was stated before, Some paper and a piece of document could not in all certaintly, document the fact as to whether you have embraced the values and mores of the new society or country you now call home. for all we know, there are more iranians who use their GC as actually a visa or a permit to enter the country. that is what they get from the Immigration officers at their respective port of entry. I personally have many members of my family in the same situation. Now, can these people REALLY call themselves americans?

How many Green card Holders can make that claim who are actually living in the US? most of them if not all are on their way to becoming a citizen, for obvious reasons, You know....Yeah you got it, facilitating yet another wave of mass migration:)

Also, i think it is pretty clear that even among those who once adored NIAC and believed in it, they always felt that something was missing or was not quite right. I mean come on, you either believe in an organization or you don't. And the big question here is when you see them not taking a position you would want them to take, and decide to get the heck out of the dodge, why still continuing to admire them and with all that you have got?

Zolfali jaan - I highly doubt

you being a pizza delivery guy.  Judging by your comments here, you seem to be a highly educated, enlightened person.  Normally not the background of pizza delivery guys. :-)

hamsade, I consider green crad holders Iranian American

As far as you noting that by definition, they are not, please show me that definition that states those who have only green card are not Iranian American or Mexican American or Chinese American, etc.

As far as why I am not a member of NIAC, it is because I want them to have a more clear stance against IRI. I think most members of NIAC are those who want more rights for Iranians in US but also as AO noted,they like to travel to Iran and have their kabab and they don't want to be against IRI for various reasons. Many never were in Iran during revolution and years after so they never experienced opprssion in Iran and that is not for them a high priority. In any case, I am not member since I don't like their position about IRI.

AO, I disagree with you.

I dont honestly know of a single iranian american who  from wake up to bed time thinks of nothing  but "JEWS" and "ZIONISTS". and believe me , I know a lot of Iranian americans on my Piza Delivery round!

Iranian americans like myself are too busy working to be bothered with politics. All iranian americans i know of, want the islamist regime to go, no matter how!

NIAC's difference with Iranian-american community: They have big mouth, plenty of time, no work, and plenty of money !!!

No go work the rest out for yourself

right a.o., that's the

right a.o., that's the biggest point one can make against niac.  all the userids on this site who vehmently "oppose iri's opposition" are the die-hard niac supporters. 

Hamsadeh and Faramarz

The reason why we have NIAC is simple.  It is because the Iranian-American community, for the most parts, is made up of a bunch of appeasers, America and Jew haters and cowards.  Seriously, look at this site.  One of the only people who writes under his real name is Mohammad Ala.  Have you ever seen him, in his almost 15 years on IC, say a single negative word about the IR?  He's either an IR supporter, or he is afraid to say anything negative so that he doesn't jeopardize his travels and his Gilani kabab eating travels to Iran--and that makes him a coward and an appeaser.  

So, when you have an atmosphere like this, and a dearth of real leadership and courage, you will have opportunists--or even worst---well funded regime agents who get off the boat from Sweden, get set up by Hooshang Amir Ahmadi, a well known regime liaison in the U.S.,  get your hands on a green card, call yourself an "Iranian-American," gather up a bunch of America and Israel haters to cheer you on,  and declare yourself the leader of the "Iranian-American" community.

After all, I agree with Ayatoivalet1

He has great points regarding this fellow TP. 

anahid, i'm sure that there

anahid, i'm sure that there are many iranian-americans who think that all the ills and atrocities in iran are caused by israelis and the west.  for these people, trita parsi and his israel-centered articles makes much sense.  i think that niac is the right organization for these people.

secondly, you may think that a green card holder is an american.  that's fine.  but by definition, that is not true.  heck, you may even call an illegal immigrant who has been living in the u.s. for most of his life or decades a u.s. citizen.  that does not make that person a u.s. citizen (i.e., an american), by definition.

thirdly, i personally had a conversation with t. parsi prior to 2009 and asked him why doesn't niac is involved in human rights?  his answer: "that's not what we do."  that's why i never joined!

btw, why are you not a niac member anymore?

Soosan Khanoom

There are many hyphenated Iranians in this world, the ones that have Iranian mother or father. And they are all Iranians and nobody can take that away from them.

The problem with Trita is that he has declared himself the chief Iranian-American advocate. That’s a high bar for him and he hasn’t proven that he either qualifies for it or deserves that position.

As for the comment, “if you don’t like it, go and create your own”, all I can say is that it is analogous to someone putting a bunch garbage on a plate in front of you and say, “This is the only thing that we have here, eat it or go make your own!”

I will gladly throw that garbage away and figure something else out!

The fair criticism and unfair ones

As an ex member of NIAC, I see some commentators writing comments that are not truthful. To claim that NIAC does not get input from its members is a lie. Since I was an ex member and I know other members and ex members who let NIAC know about their inputs and sometimes some policies in NIAC changed as result of members' inputs, I know it is not correct to say that NIAC does not get input from its members. So in rush to oppose an organization, some commentators here basically lie and that makes their position against NIAC less credible. There is no reason to lie when a person can have good reasons not to be member of NIAC. Reasons such as the fact that NIAC is not as focused on human rights in Iran and seems to place the blame for US Iran relations more on US rather than IRI. That is all one needs not the fact that Trita is not tall enough for them. Also to me a green card holder from Iranian heritage living in US for many years is surely an Iranian American, even if he grew up mostly in Sweden.

The fact of the matter is many Iranians have lived in England, Germany, Canada, Sweden, Austria, France, Australia and many oher countries before coming to US. These Iranians are indeed Iranian American. So Trita is Iranian American and those who even have problem understanding this basic fact, show their own lack of knowledge about makeup of Iranians in US. These commentators, if they were part of active Iranian American community in US, would have come across many Iranians who spent years in other countries and now are living in US.

SK

SK, no wonder DM likes you.  His parents also are from Mazandaran.  Actually, before Golestan province was created, Ghorghan was a part of Mazandaran province.  We are hamsharee too?   Do you know what “check-darmeh,” is?  Your parents would know.  I have seen ALL of Mazandaran (Sir torshi is always on the table which I love it).

i think it's high time to

i think it's high time to make "swedish chef" an honorary iranian-american.  bork bork bork.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo

i think sweden's foreign ministry's carl bildt (who reads t. parsi's books to be informed) would agree:

//tundratabloids.com/2010/07/wall-street-journal-op-ed-irans-anti.html

so would iri's foreign ministry (see motaki and bildt working in unison):

//www.ipolitiquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/HillarybehindMottaki2.jpg