Do you really approve of such a stance?

Zion:I hope your tender feeling was not hurt!

It is human nature to go to the help of the underdog which in this situation are Palestinians who are being slaughtered even while praying in a mosque.I bet you had enough counter attack from visitors at this site and you decided to retrieve.You made a right deceision,see you next time.

Zion,Palestinians do not have to pay for what Hitler did to Jews

After what Hitler did to Jews,one thinks that Jews would have compassion toward other humans,but it seems that Palestinian are the one whom Jews are taking all their revenges on ,Palestinian who had nothing to do with Germans.I guess Germany paid Israel enough.

True Iranians, Your voice is heard !

Thanks for taking a clear stance. Thanks for showing integrity and courage in the face of the usual dirty hooligans. A dirty mob that has no arguments, has no logic, has nothing but propaganda, propaganda and character assassination. As is well clear, not one of this mob tackled any of the arguments presented here or in the other blog: //iranian.com/main/2009/jan/true-story
Not one. All you see is the repetition of the same old stuff all over like a broken record.
What is more eye opening is what is said all over the place in "demonstrations" like these:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Xl68kP4wo

"Go back to the Ovens".
The true face behind all the pretensions of "humanism" and "peace". Isn't it interesting how similar all this is with the kind of propaganda we all have been attacked by here. It almost looks as if they are all systematically coordinated.

So God bless you who spoke up clearly. Especially in contrast to some who still feel they need to save face by always condemning "both sides". By treating the legitimate defense of a responsible state of its citizens the same as the hate filled murderous attempts of Islamo-fascist terrorists. Thanks for showing them what true integrity is. That faced with the calls to "ovens" you have to take a side. Save face for who? For what? When are you going to get serious about the world you live in?

Interesting Case study

Zions are 20th century product, interesting study case for sociologists.

Was ist das?

Zions liebe Hitler? Ich weis es zehr gut

Ms This T...don't compare Q with an extremest zionist please

You put Q with Ms. zion in the same catagory? I believe you don't like what you hear from Q. He is a compassionate Iranian who patiently and consistantly discusses subjects that have to do with racism. He stands up against the venemous comments by Ms zion and her gang about Iranians/Palestinians and Muslims. Zion on the contrary is the most hated visitor here who is a defender of criminal regime of Israel and spews hatred here. So lets not get confused here.

Israel ground forces now moving in

Sadly Lebanon experience is repeating before the transition of power in US, as anticipated:

//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/?GT1=43001

Javid Shah,what do you call Israelis?

If you call Hamas cowards, What do you call Israelis whom from safety of thousands of feet above ground are dropping 2000 pounds bombs on defenseless people.These people have suffered enough during Hamas rules.They have been surrounded by air,sea and land for months and now they are facing this assault.Just because you are anti IRI it does not mean you should be against those poorest of the poors.

Well, I have several comments I'd like to make but...

I would rather make a suggestion that Q and Z make a separate blog about the issue for perhaps two agreed-upon days during which we could all just read it and think about things and do some websearching, perhaps soul-searching, about things....and then after open the blog for general discussion.

I also have thought for a while that this would be a good idea for the website to go, not so much for the regular bloggers necessarily as for inviting in more reknowned people to debate each other and then to open up for Q & A with them at a predetermined tme and the for general discussion.

Q and Z have diametrically opposed viewpoints, however the three things you can't say about them are that they're stupid, uninformed, or (overall) impatient. My views are pretty well-known but these two people represent a fundamental schism not only among Iranians (and those interersted in Iran--Zion,  btw what is your Jewish ethnic background and where do you live? I am third generation Ashkenaz, Moldavian on my mother's side and second generation Byelorussian on my father's but from a region historically Polish. I was born and have lived in New York City most of my life--anyway, as I was saying, these two represent two polarized visions not only for Iranians but for the entire global geopolitical situation which is beginning to look a bit more grim these days with potential domino effects and so on.

What do you think of my ideas about organizing specific depating blogs for two in general and for Q and Z in particular?

Well...I guess I'm back, huh...sigh...

r

Excellent zion. These

Excellent zion. These pathetic Islamists are pissed off because Israel can actually defend itslef unlike before where it was holocausted by the mightier force. They actually want the jews to give up their land and go to the ovens or drown in the sea on their own volition. Pathetic!

Mr. Gilani - Right on! Islamists and their appologists.......

Are upset that and IRI terrorist supported entity is being crushed right in front of their eyes and they can't do jack about it. Zion, notice how some of these appologist alway claim the Hezbolah WON the war 2 years ago, but Hezbolah does not dare to take any action in the current conflict. Why?

Hezbollah, has learned that stupid par military terroristic style adventurism does not always pay and that one mistake can result on thousands of deaths and billions of dollars in damage. Hezbolah now has to act with caution since its is part of the Lebanese government and society. This is the Lesson of Lebanon war that the IRI and Hamas have not realized yet. Islamist Iran's influence is being neutralized with the help of Arab states in region by their giving of a silent green light to the Israelis for this operation.

Israel is showing us how to deal with Islamist. This is the only way unfortunately. Very sad to see the innocent loss of life. Hamas will now learn its lesson as well. Rocket attacks and terrorism on civilian populations will be costly. Refusing to recognize Israel and negotiate a peace treaty in order to resist its existence out of stupidity and Islamist values will be costly. This is the message.

I support Israel

Zion,

I totally agree with you when you say that the backward Islamists expect Israel to have the same preference.  In reality, no legitimate sovereign government can sit idle at the face of constant asymmetrical attacks.

Israel is the only democracy in M.E. and Iran's best strategic partner in the region.  That is why I support Israel.

I thought the plan was...

"In my opinion all Arab countries in ME need to help in destablization these two orgs and not giving them any finnancial or economic help."

What? I thought the plan was to destroy all the muslims in the ME.

Zion

You are 100% correct here. The only reason these jerks in the Hamas are even in business now is because of financial and spiritual support from the scum who are in control of our Iran. These Hamas terrorists have no respect for civilian lives and are cowards. They shoot and hide among civilians. Israel has no other choice but to fight them this way.

What Q is proposing is ridiculous. Israel can not just give the upper hand to Hamas by allowing them to hide among the population. Either come out of the civilian population areas and fight like men or shoot and operate and go into hiding in civilian areas which will naturally result in civilian deaths.

Islamists and their supporters are very evil people Zion. Very evil. Thank you for exposing this evil.

Hamas& Hezbollah

are two terrorists organizations who are supported by trouble maker IRI.  These two do not care about their own people & use them as a shield.  In my opinion all Arab countries in ME need to help in destablization these two orgs and not giving them any finnancial or economic help.

Yawn...

---------
sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's how Israel is behaving, a spoiled, undisciplined brat of a child.

Zion, I said the religious thing as a side-comment to show that Iran did not in fact bomb Baghdad or major Iraqi cities for religious reasons (holy Shiite sites). It was irrelevant to my main argument, I did not even repeat it in my last post. Now you are so desperate, you pretend it was relevant. It is you who is cornered.

It is you who is twisting words. It is you who have no answers to the clear war crimes that Israel is committing.

Mr. DW read you so perfectly, I am in shock and awe!

You are more pathetic a liar than I imagined, Q!

It is amazing. Any time I think I have seen the lowest of you, you prove you can sink lower.
'Zion, I said the religious thing as a side-comment to show that Iran did not in fact bomb Baghdad or major Iraqi cities for religious reasons (holy Shiite sites). '

Yes, I didn't understand what you said because I was still under the unfortunate impression that you had a little bit of integrity left. You are actually claiming that Iran did not bomb Baghdad and other Iraqi cities? Are you for real? Iran actually launched rockets at them all through the war, and the missiles and bombs were never accurate enough for Iran to make sure it is targeting residential areas or not. So civilians were in fact put to danger and a lot of them actually did die due to Iranian bombs and rockets that fell over their heads, as did Iranian civilians from Iraqi bombs and rockets. Which is the only thing that mattered for the act to be "racist" and "criminal" according to your bogus newly made up arguments.

You are beyond pity Q. You can blabber all you want from now on. You are simply not worth answering anymore.

BS again...

The Palestinian territories are occupied right now according all but lunatics such as yourself. Egypt has closed the border at the request of and by agreement with, US and Israel. This still does not explain land and sea blockade clearly illegal under international law.

"Gaza" is not a country, and Israel does not consider it as such (here you lose the parallel to Iran/Iraq). Gaza is a territory of the occupied Palestine, currently illegaly blockaded by Israel. HAMAS is considered by Israel to be a terrorist organization when it comes to world sympathy, yet here you are pretending it's an army of a seoverign state. Such double-talk is the cornerstone of your arguments.

Israeli civilians are in such low risk of "danger," it is absolutely rediculous, and in no way warrants a preemptive strike. As I said, why are you not taking the stone throwing risk any more seriously? Israel should be at war with its auto manufacturers because they have killed 1000s of times more Israeli civilians than Hamas and there is more risk of more deaths in the future.

sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's how Israel is behaving, a spoiled, undisciplined brat of a child.

Zion, I said the religious thing as a side-comment to show that Iran did not in fact bomb Baghdad or major Iraqi cities for religious reasons (holy Shiite sites). It was irrelevant to my main argument, I did not even repeat it in my last post. Now you are so desperate, you pretend it was relevant. It is you who is cornered.

It is you who is twisting words. It is you who have no answers to the clear war crimes that Israel is committing.

Mr. DW read you so perfectly, I am in shock and awe!

Conclusion is that you have no excuses left to defend the ongoing masscare in Gaza.

Ma'Salam.

Q

Gaza has common borders with Egypt. Israel only controls her own borders. Israeli civilians are under rocket attacks and Israel has to protect them. You have explained nothing. Your "logic" is applicable to that situation as well, and your nonsense about religious or non-religious reasons have no place in it. Either talk sense Q or just save your breath. You are just repeating yourself and your feeble attempts at sophistry.

BS, Zion, pure BS

do you think we were born yesterday?

Gaza is part of the Palestinian territories which are partially occupied by Israel since 1967. Even if Gaza is to be considered a seperate country, then it is entitled reasonable road access and to real sovereignty.

Israel is blockading Gaza strip, land, air and sea.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about now.

What new rules? Why kind of an ego do you have to have to think everyone must be cheating to avoid you!!! Oh my god! You have not had a reasonable that I have seen ever!

Your arguments clearly apply exactly and equally well to the case of Iran's bombing Iraqi cities during the Iran-Iraq war.

B. S. It does not apply. You are pretending this is "war" and the rules of war apply. That is not how any other country understands it.

Iran was not committing war crimes against Iraq. Iraq had a real military and inflicted far more damages on Iran than vice versa. Iran was not fighting a "terrorist group" it was fighting the Iraqi Army. There is no parallel with the Iran Iraq war. The paralels are between terrorist groups and sovereign nations, as I explained.

NO, I do not consider Iran's bombing (as little of it as it was) as racist, and I explained why.

Israel wants to have control over the territories and it wants to avoid war crime charges. It has neither of them now, it has to choose one or the other.

Q

Gaza is not part of Israel,and is no longer under Israeli control either. Remember the great 'victory' of having the Israelis completely withdraw from Gaza? That is what matters, Gaza is outside of Israel and the terrorists that have control over it launch rockets in order to kill Israelis. Don't make up new ad hoc rules when you are cornered my friend.
And I never mentioned anything about "religious reasons" and your "logic" and "arguments" didn't either. Again, don't make up new rules when cornered. Your arguments clearly apply exactly and equally well to the case of Iran's bombing Iraqi cities during the Iran-Iraq war. So you should consider them racist and criminal too. Do you?

Zion, more

it just so happens that Iran did not bomb residential areas in Baghdad and 12 major Iraqi cities for religious reasons.

But that's not the situation here.

If Gaza is a different country, than Israel should allow it complete autonomy, in the coastline and air space, so that may lead Hamas to have a proper Army. Then a confrontation could be considered a war.

If Gaza is not a different country and Hamas is just a "terrorist group" , than bombing civilians is not acceptable.

There have been many terrorist groups and resistance movements in history, they always have a civilian base, bombing that base and putting civilians in jeopardy is not acceptable.

The IRA devestated Britain with a 30 year bombing campaign, the British "air force" did not respond with bombing the "terrorists" in Ireland. Same with communist and anarchist groups in Europe, the Basque seperatists in Spain, the seperatists, abortion clinic bmbers and KKK groups in the US, on and on.

Your previous comparison of World War II comparing Hamas to Nazi Germany is ludicrous. From the Israeli point of view the terrorism cases I cited above is the colosest parallel. No one even dared what Israel is diong now.

Actually, the Serbs did that in Bosnia and Kosovo, they were justly condemned for it.

You still have not answered any of the issues I raised previously, but that was to be expected. What Israel is doing is criminal and racist.

Q

Any nation state has the responsibility to protect her citizen's lives. Tell me Q, do you consider the Iranian side racists engaged in war crimes too, for bombing Baghdad and other residential areas of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war?
I don't. Because of the same argument, any nation state's responsibility is first and foremost to protect the lives and well being of its own citizens. Your "logic" however should apply equally well for that situation as well. So?

YOUR stance is to hold "threats" equivilant to "lives"

that's the logical consequence of Israeli action: mere 'threats' (even biasedly measured by the aggressor itself) is worth killing Children.

I asked a question: would it be allright to drop bombs in Mahnattan because Bin Laden was in one of the buildings? Would it be allright for Israel to drop those bombs in Athens, Rome or Tel Aviv? Of course not. Many criminals wanted in the US or UK now live in Moscow and aren't extradited. Is it OK to bomb their neighborhoods in Moscow? But is it acceptable in Gaza to play such games of "chance" with civilian population? Yes.

Does Israel reasonably predict the loss of civilians (no matter what their BS story is regarding who they are "targeting") ? YES. That makes doing the action (that reasonably leads to deaths of innocent civilians) a war crime.

Why? Arab lives are not valued to Israel. And the US protection means it can get away with it. It wouldn't dare put its own citizens or those of a Western country in the same predicament. Therefore it is also racist.

Is there a threat that throwing rocks will kill Israeli civilians? Certainly. Is there a threat that Gazans could come into Israel via tunnels and strangle citizens by their bare hands? Of course.
Maybe Israel should "respond" to those threats too. How about carpet bombing?

No other country can get away with this line of pure horseshit, even the United States in their criminal action against Iraq used 9/11 attacks, which killed 2700 people as the justification.

It also does not explain why Israel simply does not do commando raids and find the right people as opposed to their entire appartment complex or Police station, mosque, etc.

These are fabrications made in service of pro Israeli public relations. They have no correlation whatsoever with the "threat" of a few hommade science projects (which as abarmard correctly stated) are not necessarily ordered by Hamas.

These are not reasons to go to war. Thease are a blood-thirsty aggressors' criminal excuses.

Media bias...

Dear AM, this bias is also applicable to the media treatment of Iranian nuclear issue. When they address it, it's "Iran's drive towards the bomb," and when the Western reaction toward it is addressed, it's "the Iranian nuclear programme!" In that manner, implication of the miltary nature of Iran's nuclear programme would be a foregone conclusion, whereas the resolutions to stop the programme is for it to stop the uranium enreachment activities altogether!

These are in fact sutble ways of manipulating the Western (mainly American) public opinion in that regard!

Your conjectures are irrelevant

Whatever Israeli policy had been vis-a-vis Hamas, it did not entail any military incursion into Gaza. There was a truce and Hamas has broken it. America and allied forces did also put a lot of pressure on Imperial Japan prior to the invasion on Pearl Harbor. Nevertheless Japan was the one who engaged in the military invasion, when it had a choice not to, and America did all she could afterwards to win the war, as it was her right and the only correct thing to do. Hamas is a terrorist group which has the same thing sin its charter as Hitler Germany, and is dedicated to kill Israelis and wipe Israel off the map. That is in their charter. They got them elected, that means they chose a Nazi like terrorist group, and Israel has all the rights to do whatever she wanted on her side of the border in order to deal with such a force on the other side. It was Hamas who started firing weapons to Israel, the same way that it was Hizballah that instigated the other war, and Israel has no choice but to retaliate to end the assaults.

Perhaps

The problem is that we are not too certain whether the Rocket attacks were baseless or there were some pressure that forced Hamas to "react". Unfortunately the news is too bias to inform individuals about the truth.

Regardless, the situation in Gaza in general is not normal to assume that Hamas is doing their actions based on "hate" alone!
I would like to know more, at this time I am under the assumption that Hamas has reacted to Israeli policies that generally tend to be unfair. 

Something doesn't add up here and that tells me there is something in Israeli policy that is not being broadcast. Similar to the era of Netanyahu, who clearly wanted to preemptive strike against Iran at any cost, yet we only heard the Iranian answer to his call without any news about the source of the Iranian reaction! I believe this is a similar situation with Hamas that we are not hearing the events to lead to Hamas Rocket attacks.

To clarify, if Israeli official says that we need to bomb Iran, and Iran answers that Iran will respond harshly to Israeli aggression, the news would only display Iranians respond:

"Iran has said that it will attack Israel harshly"...

Based on above logic, I don't believe that Israel had nothing to do with the Rocket attacks, actually I find that impossible.