Britain, on the way to becoming the new motherland of the Islamic ummah

...

The British have no fear of their Muslim population...

How nice for them. Did you have a point?

– they are their
own home made products.

That probably explains why American Muslims are so much more well assimilated than European Muslims, eh? 

In Britain, more than anywhere else in the world,
followers of all faiths and beliefs enjoy freedom of expressing their
opinions as well as practising their faith.

Nonsense. 

The only time that they
acted against their country’s interest was when our American allies put
their nose into the affairs of something of which they had very little
understanding: Islam.

That's one more time than American Muslims have ever acted against their country, though. The 9/11 hijackers were not American. So, that pretty much shuts you down, doesn't it :(

It is respect, and not fear or confrontation that is the overriding factor in British view of other faiths.

The government has no business getting involved in matters of faith, period. You say you are a secular society, right? Do you know what the word means?

Something that you two and indeed majority of the Iranian-Americans fail to understand is the nature of the Anglo-American special relationship
that has been in place for more than a century.

Lol. You are going to lecture me, whose English Ancestors came to North America in the 17th century, about the relationship between the UK and the US, are you?

They have shared
secrets and shared interests – something that Israelis find it too hard
to swallow. Since WWII these two powers have never acted against each
other’s interest and in favour of a third party.

That special relationship is a thing of the past. In my opinion.

This is why Britain
has never taken side with the EU against the US. If and when you
understand this, then many puzzles may begin to unravel for you.

Maybe when you understand that Americans don't percieve the UK that way anymore, things will begin to unravel for you. You drag us through the mud every chance you get. You tar and feather us the same way you do Israel. Your politicians openly ridicule America, and your press goes so far as propagandizing against us. This is not the behavior of a "special ally", is it?

Sophisticated?

You claim that's better? You come across as being pompous and pretentious.

For instance your first sentence:

I am sorry; I should have realised that some people here are less than
sophisticated to understand anything even mildly elaborate.

I used write like that when I was in 7th grade. I thought my English teacher would give me a better grade if I used a lot of obscure wording and complex sentence structure in my creative writing assignments. Instead, she had a nasty habit of handing them back to me with a lot of red ink on them, and telling me to try again :(

Anyway, I may give it a shot when I get back from the dentist. You obviously want to continue the dsicussion, despite your low opinion of the our intellect.

Allow me to make it simple for you

I am sorry; I should have realised that some people here are less than sophisticated to understand anything even mildly elaborate. Besides, I despise copying the trashy slangy style of English that seems to be a fad here. OK, let me make it simple for you two:

The British have no fear of their Muslim population – they are their own home made products. Many of them have lived in the UK for generations. In Britain, more than anywhere else in the world, followers of all faiths and beliefs enjoy freedom of expressing their opinions as well as practising their faith. The only time that they acted against their country’s interest was when our American allies put their nose into the affairs of something of which they had very little understanding: Islam. It is respect, and not fear or confrontation that is the overriding factor in British view of other faiths.    

Something that you two and indeed majority of the Iranian-Americans fail to understand is the nature of the Anglo-American special relationship that has been in place for more than a century. They have shared secrets and shared interests – something that Israelis find it too hard to swallow. Since WWII these two powers have never acted against each other’s interest and in favour of a third party. This is why Britain has never taken side with the EU against the US. If and when you understand this, then many puzzles may begin to unravel for you.

Lastly, Zion, I understand, though do not sympathise with, the deep pain and anger you feel against the British but I am afraid I cannot help you with it. Yes, they did create the Jewish homeland and ruled it until terrorists like Eitan Livni (father of Tzipzi) made it unworthy of hanging on to. So if you are unhappy and hurt that your favourite state was born out of terrorism, like what their Palestinian neighbours aspire to achieve, then you have to learn to live with it.

anglophile

I can't understand what you are trying to say either. Since you mention my name I just give it a try nevertheless. If all this dramatics is your way of admitting that what Britain does today is out of fear of its overwhelming immigrant Muslim community, then OK, that was clearly alluded to in my title already.

[And to be honest, for such an empire to be left with fans of your caliber is itself a sign of Her Majesty's downfall, if I may say so! :-)]

Zion

AP

Too poncy by far! Can you edit it and try talking like a real person instead of a cartoon character? If not, maybe I'll still reply later if I can find somebody to translate for me.

My dear fellow, Craig

I see that my brief comment made some people jump sky high! Your polemics are puerile in tone and pedantry in nature. They betray a deep misunderstanding of the situations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ghaza, and Lebanon and their direct links to the ethno-religious tensions in Europe. This is why I suggest that people like you and your partner-in-arms, Tsion, should limit your disinformation to your own neighbourhood, where you can claim to possess a relative, though inadequate, local “knowledge.”  But it is never too late to be enlightened.  Americans have always relied upon and learned from the British intelligence when it comes to Middle Eastern politics.  Was it not for the moderating influence of the British, George W Bush would have landed the US and the UK forces in a far messier quagmire than he did over the last five years. To give you an idea about the degree of American ineptitude in the area of intelligence gathering, barring their technically driven satellite imagery and electronic eavesdropping, American diplomats in Iraq, Afghanistan (and formerly in Iran) could hardly speak a word in the local lingo, hence the recent laughable recruitment drive by the CIA to employ Persian, Dari and Arabic speaking agents from within their corresponding Californian based expatriate communities. Where Americans have to rely on the locals recruits for intelligence, the British have their own locally installed men (and women) to send them the required information. Even, the Russians and Israelis are miles ahead of the Americans when I come to the understanding of the local beliefs and sensitivities of their occupied territories. These beliefs and sensitivities are communicated to the expatriate communities who are currently living in Europe. It is due to such issues that the trouble maker Greet Wilders is sent home at the port of entry and Jean-Marie Le Pen is allowed in with an arrest warrant dangling over his head.  The problem with the likes of you guys is that like your own (American) politicians, you are encapsulated in a bubble of self-righteousness and cannot separate the fact from fantasy until the bubble bursts. But then it is too late to remedy the damage.

also

One last thing... what does the "geopolitical situation" in the middle east have to do with European multiculturalism and bigotry? You are admitting that you try to curry favor with some groups, at the expense of others? And using your "special knowledge" of their needs to justify it? That's pretty ugly.

The present British policy

The present British policy and its responses to the religious, cultural
and political sensitivities of the people of that area have their roots
in their deep and wide knowledge of the geopolitics of Islam and
Judaism - something our American cousins so badly need to learn about. 

That's just ridiculous. 40% of the world's Jewish population lives in teh United States. 2% of the world's Jewish population lives in the United Kingdom.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Uni...

According to your 2001 Census, Britain's Muslim population is 2.7%.

There are no reliable estimates for the US Muslim population, as our census does not record religious affiliation, but with only 2.7% of Brits being Muslim, we probably aren't far off.

So... on what basis are you claiming some special knowledge of Ilsam and Judaism that Americans do not have?

EDIT: PS, thanks for your "special help" in Basra! It was really nice of you to let the Sadrists take over the streets while you were chanting "softly, softly!".

anglophile

No other country in Europe, arguably in the world, has a more
realistic view of the Middle and Near East than Britain. The present
map of the Middle East was drawn by TE Lawrance and Gretrude Bell long
before the state of Israel was created (thanks to the British
politicians).

That's a pretty sound argument for why nobody should take the British seriously when it comes to the middle east, eh? :P

something our American cousins so badly need to learn about. 

So you are actually British, yourself? Isn't calling yourself an "anglophile" a bit redundant?

ayhab

Can you read simple English? Can you comprehend simple logic?
The KKK does embark in muslim s hatred as well, or used to at least before they saw ideological allies in the likes of your Mahmoud. ;-)

I think I have made myself pretty clear, if they incite hatred against people, including muslims, that is unacceptable. Saying anything about Islam does not fall in this category. Capisci?

Zion

How can you talk about a country you know nothing about?

Certain comments placed on this blog spell ignorance more than hate. No other country in Europe, arguably in the world, has a more realistic view of the Middle and Near East than Britain. The present map of the Middle East was drawn by TE Lawrance and Gretrude Bell long before the state of Israel was created (thanks to the British politicians). The present British policy and its responses to the religious, cultural and political sensitivities of the people of that area have their roots in their deep and wide knowledge of the geopolitics of Islam and Judaism - something our American cousins so badly need to learn about.

soali

I liked Tsion's answer, though I suspect I am less tolerant of hate speech than she is. But that's only on a personal level :)

But I need to be clear. I'm American, not British. The US is not "multiculty", and neither am I. The government has no business promoting any culture except American culture. Neither should the government be in the business of discriminating against any particular immigrant groups and their cultures. Live and let live is my philosophy, and that doesn't work very well when the government is trying to level the cultural "playing field" by putting some groups at a disadvantage while showing favor towards others. See this? :

//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7889631.stm

Read it carefully. It says the UK previously sponsored militant Muslims in Britain, so long as they didn't advocate violence. Their announced new policy is to "shun" and publicly disadvantage militant Muslims, whether they are inciting violence or merely advocating intolerance against non-Muslims.

I don't think the UK should have adopted either one, as official policy. It's ridiculous. Why does the British Government feel that it has not only the right, but the RESPONSIBILTY, to promote one group over another?

As far as this Geert Wilders thing, you have to realize the only reason the denied him entry was to curry favor with UK Muslims, right? I mentioned David Duke... he could travel to the UK tomorrow, and nobody would say a word.  Why? He makes Geert Wilders look like an angel. The UK Government should not be victimizing people in one group just to please another... that's ridiculous, and it's illegal, and it's immoral.

A final note... here in Southern California, where I live, the major culture clash is between latinos and blacks. It's gotten quite bad, and quite violent, in the last 15 years or so. I can't imagine the US government trying to smooth things over by saying "Black folks, you are the good guys.... now don't piss us off, and eat your beets!" and then a few years later taking the exact opposite stance. That would perpetuate the problem, forever, and I think that's the fate much of Europe is going to suffer.

Zion

Zion I do have a question.

Do you feel same way about KKK? Or is it that you just only support Muslim Hatred?

What I mean is, do you think it is OK to HATE only Muslims? or your DEMOCRATIC views can be applied to any other hateful person or group? I am only wondering ;-)

capt_ayhab [-YT]

No

soall,

'Living in a modern multicultural society should mean that no hate speech against any of the cultures is tolerated, no?'

the answer is no. This kind of sloppy language and reasoning is used nowadays to promote censorship. hate speech is a well defined term. It applies, and a ban of it enforced, only in very extreme cases where a specific group of human beings are clearly demarcated as the focus of hate that is intended to hurt them physically and that could ultimately lead to physically exterminating them. That's it.

Any kind of criticism of an idea, an idelology or a set of beliefs falls completely outside this term, even if the criticisms is construed by the adherents of those beliefs, or anyone else for that matter, to be hateful. Wilder's film is actually not hateful at all, and if anything is focused on violent elements of a book that are held blindly to kill people who are deemed infidels or their lackeys and to oppress muslims themselves. But even if a form of speech or expression contained nothing but pure hatred of a set of beliefs and ideas, not only should it still be allowed, but it should actually be protected by law, because that is what truly defines the real freedom of speech and the freedom of expression.

'Should not British society welcome and celebrate their culture too?'

Members of the British society who think it is worthy of celebration should obviously be free to celebrate it [as long as their celebration does not entail hate speech as the term is correctly defined, that is, as long as the celebration does not entail targeting the lives of a specifically identified group of human beings.]

So in short: Ina free society beliefs and ideas are not, and should not be, protected against any kind of criticism... even those construed as hateful by others. Human beings on the other hand should be protected against specifically designed incitements to harm their lives (but not their beliefs!)

I hope this helped you.

Zion

Tsion and Progammer,

please help me understand your points of view. Living in a modern multicultural society should mean that no hate speech against any of the cultures is tolerated, no?

Britain has many Muslims. Should not British society welcome and celebrate their culture too?

Europe

DW, I totally agree. Europe is a den of vipers. Nothing less can describe the reality there.
-------------

Sam, that was right on target. lol.
Pope, thanks for the video. We live in a completely unjust world.

Zion

David Duke, former Imperial

David Duke, former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) at the Holocaust denial summit in Tehran:

//www.davidduke.com/general/david-duke-delive...

Let me say from the outset that I am no disloyal American, I love my
country and my people, but I know that the Zionist extremists lead my
country to catastrophe in the Mideast and elsewhere around the world. I
know that the Palestinian people, the Lebanese people, even the
American people have been sacrificed on the altar of the Holocaust. It
is the chronic media and government playing of the Holocaust that has
blinded our eyes to new holocausts and new outrages.

His people are White, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. Like me. Others need not apply. The KKK does not even accept Catholic Europeans as equals. Would he be barred from enterring the United Kingdom? I don't know if Geert Wilders is a racist or if he's just trying to protect Dutch culture from a foreign ideology that frightens him, but I do know David Duke is a former leader of the most notorious white supremacist movement that has ever existed.

Indeed

The day that the resident Pan-Turkish bigot , with anti true-Iran , anti Persian & anti Zorostrian views become martin luther king of IC , is indeed a good day for Nelson to say :

//img2.abload.de/img/simpsons_nelson_haha2uwr.jpg

 cheers ::))!!!

//www.iranianidentity.blogspot.com/

Arash M-K

Fight racism, even if it is against a group that you don't like!

Why do I always get the impression (here) that it's only important to fight bigotry in the West? And that even then, it isn't imporatnt to fight against bigotry if the victims are Jews? And the people who feel that way are the same people who complain the loudest whenever they feel like Muslims are the victims of bigotry. It's tiresome.I don't mean to address you in particular, because I haven't noticed whether or not you comment when Jews are discrimated against in Europe, or when Christians are discriminated against in the middle-east, or when Bahias are discriminated against in Iran, and so on and so forth. Just making a general observation that it seems like I see a lot of the same people on this website who are openly racist against western whites (aka rednecks as I've been called dozens of times here) and Jews, are the most hysterical and irrational when it comes to anything remotely resembling criticism of a group they identify with.

Tsion: Yes, isn't it interesting how any amount of bigotry is acceptable in European politics (and European populations), as long as Jews are the target? The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

EDIT: Not sure what happened but this comment came out badly garbled! Tried to clean it up as best I could.

In the mean time

The anti-semite Le Pen is free to enter Britain and say what he wants:
//www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/apr/24/uk....

Says a lot... .

Zion

...

Hate filled fear mongering with a racist undertone ... as usual

Hate filled fear mongering with a racist undertone, as usual, from the master bigot on this site and her stooges!

The issue of increased Muslim population in Europe is the mantra of Neo-Fascists, who are pursuing a genocidal holocaust of these new Semites in Europe.

Iranians, who cheer for such racist criminals, fail to realize that they are a potential victim, as well as the Arabs.

Fight racism, even if it is against a group that you don't like! 

Arash M-K

Capitalize

It’s Arabs not “arabs”.
Muslim not “muslim”.
Islamic not “islamic”.

You know what?!

No Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Baha’i, Buddhism, Hinduism.... and all other f***g religions and their followers. We don’t need any religions!

SamSam

I found this (indirectly) on the wiki link when I looked up "Qashqai" from your earlier post, but it seems helpful here ;)

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ripley_map_of_ce...

The darker shades on that map indicate areas populated by groups that have short wide skulls, also known as fatheads. As you can see, most of these "fatheads" live in France and Eastern Europe. That is where the ommatization will start first!

Note to the anally retentive and politically correct: I'm only joking! 

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