Shiro-Khorshid-Forever

Sayeh, bi roo darvasi,

you are exactly the kind of out-of-touch extremist that Mahmoud Ahamdinejad and the hardliners pray for every Friday in order to defeat the unity of the Green movement.

Just to let you know.

Where is your proof that Akbar Ganji was a torturer?

I stopped reading your post when I saw this claim. That Akbar Ganji was a toturer? That's the first time I'm hearing about this. Where is your factual evidence?

Faramarz, I am for the separation of religion and the state but

how the hell are you going to separate religion, in this case Eslam, from the "living culture"?!!! And why would you even want to do that?

Shame on IRI supporters

While a number of rival Mullahs call the supreme leader, Ali khamenei, " dictator", a bunch of pro IRI, Aghazade, ex-complicit, holders of IRI passports, show their royalty in supporting the survival of this dictatorial regime and in proposing reforms within this rapist regime.

Many Islamist residents, corrupt aghazades, dubious exported journalists from different IRI factions, sold intellectuals, and political activists are all at it to play down the impact of slogans like “down with the dictator!” shouted by millions of Iranians in the Iranian streets.

The mission of this fake opposition is to that Diaspora does not dare challenge the Mullahs’ regime entirely. The clerical establishment is heavily dependent on these people abroad despite brutal inner power struggles among the factions.

Thanks Gitdoun

*

Mehrban.

honestly i can't find any neutral sources or refrences (none-shahi/ none iri/none-mko) that indicate Akbar Ganji was the mother all torturers back in the 80's. nothing in amnesty international, or any u.n. watchdogs that provide a shred of evidence to substantiate claims that he was a torturer. ---but for the sake of argument let's say he was and from there i began my post.

Gitdoun

What "horrible things" did Akbar Ganji do?  

pathetic argument

u know there is a person who has had the blood of thousands of innocent villagers on his hand and later won the nobel peace prize in 1994; his name Yitzhak Rabin.

 why can't people change and take the path of rectitude ??? akbar ganji did horrible things in the 80's but he spent a good damn long time in penitence starving himself in jail rotting away until he was nothing but bare bones. And for what ??? for revealing government agents murdering dozens of prominent critics of wilayat faqhi. That for me is deserving of amnesty and forgiveness.

2nd it's easy to live outside of iran sitting comfortably and safely in your home laughing at the Reform Movement judging them as traitors and idiots for still working with the system/iri. But when your neck is on the line and your living in Tehran you work with what you have with the little that you got so that u live to see another day.

Meaning u play kiss up to Wilayat Faqhi to stay alive so u can continue to blow the embers of opposition.

your in no position to judge.

Darius Jaan

What you wrote in your article is great & its message has no time/place boundaries.

Sepaas

Ebi aka Haaji

DK

Lovely article buddy, thanks for the link. I enjoyed the analogy and the vivid description you made.

Excellent job pal

-YT 

Sayeh Jaan

Next time when you decide to write about Mr Akhavan,please leave your emotions at home & then you might sound rational.

Sepaas

//people.mcgill.ca/payam.akhavan/

//network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/04/19/payam-akhavan-on-the-greatest-threat-to-iran-s-islamic-hardliners-the-democratic-aspirations-of-the-iranian-people.aspx

Ebi aka Haaji

Thank you Darius KADIVAR

That was a great article to read.

Ms. Sayeh

You stated[I attended with a number of other pro-democracy activists with our Lion and Sun Flags as a symbol of opposition to this pro-reform (pro-Islamic Regime) event.]

YOUR Lion and Sun Flag? can you show the deed please?May I also respectfully ask your position on the election all together. Were you for boycott of the election?

Due respect, seems to me that you as an author are allowing vendetta to blind you to other issues. This is called being biased. There is a gentleman of contributor in this site who always after every blog and after every comment says:

[Every voice counts]

-YT 

FYI/Prisoner of Conscience:Akbar Ganji & Costa Gavras Confession

Here is an article I wrote about Ganji when he was still on Hunger Strike in Iran in 2006: 

Prisoner of Conscience: Akbar Ganji and Costa Gavras' Confession BY Darius KADIVAR

Thanks Ari

for the reply.  I am aware of Ganji's connection to the Islamic Redpublic. I also can understand that many idealists may have been involved in the early stages of IR but have become disilusioned and I can not begrudge them for it but "torturer" is quite a serious charge and entirely a different matter.

From your response, I understand that you do not subscribe to this characterization of Ganji.   Maybe Ms. Hassan will tell us why she calls him a torturer.   In the light of recent events in Iran, I think, we should not use terms such as "torturer" loosely.  

Ex PC

A quick search in "Google" would give you some ideas what he's been up to.

By no means I am defending him, but not voicing what I know, contrary to what is being said is injustice and not fair.

We have to learn how to criticize without exaggeration, name calling or creating noises based on emotion. Ultimately we have to cheer and support those who are making differences no matter how small their efforts are. 

Cheers to cool heads

       '

Mehrban, Ganji

In this sense Ganji is a trailblazer in Iranian human rights politics, despite his past.

Different perspective

I have heard Mr. Akhavan speak and have been very impressed with the depth of his knowledge and experience. When the protests emerged after the elections, there was a dignity in the way the masses of Iranians were expressing their grievances that we saw on our TV sets that made us and the whole world watch.

In contrast to the terrible brutality of the Islamic government, Iranians went out peacefully to the street as a show of resistance.

It is important that in the process of the resistance, Iranians do not take on the qualities of the Iranian government oppressors. If Iranians show the same blood-thirsty and hateful qualities as the Islamic government then there will be no progress to rule of law, respect for human rights, and systemic integrity.

The future of Iran and governance will be a reflection of the charachter and qualities of its people.

ex-pc

Ari

Yes, I tried to avoid taking up the post itself. I like what Sayeh hassan said, but I realize I don't know enough about the politics of the Iranian expat community to be able to assess accuracy of any claim or counter-claim.

That's why I replied only to what babak pirouzian said in the thread :)

ex-pc

 The writer has not shown that the speakers at this event actually said anything about forgivenss. There are solid indications that this article does not state the facts correctly. For example the writer says, "Due to the efforts made by the organizers to keep this event a secret from freedom loving Iranians..."

Yet Here is the public announcement for the event, giving the location, time, subject, and speakers of the event.

Ganji, a torturer?!

Was he a torturer?

Sayyah : I understand

Sayyah : I understand exactly where your frustration emnates from.

On the surface, these entities are  demonizing empathy for the victims and glorify violence for the perpetrators. I'm not sure if they know what they are doing by subscribing to this approach; to what end they are employing such tactics. To stop further bloodshed, avoid a civil war, or a bloody revolution.

I don't know the answer to these question but instead of getting angry at them, request an interview with both of them to find out how they justify their stance.

Your reasoning lacks logic

I find this post a bit silly.

I understand the concerns of the writer but her issues are based on accusations:

-"here were also numerous leftist activists present who ended up asking some very important and interesting questions." You should focus, understand and discuss these very important and interesting questions.

-Why judge an event by focusing on an individual, who is not even there? Why not instead realize the core principles that make the topic important?

- Suppose that you establish that the "torturer", who now has been found guilty based on all the records "out there"! Now what? Kill him?

- "Neither Mousavi or Khatami have ever condemned the Islamic Regime for the torture and the execution of its dissidents for the past 30 years. At best they have suggested that those arrested in the past two months should be released, forgetting that what we are seeing right now has been going on for 30 years in Islamic Regime dungenous." So let's be clear, you issue here is not democracy, freedom or what not in Iran, but revenge. Perhaps you need to attend another meeting with "revenge" title included. Content of the forum should be broad and conceptual. If you are concerned about Khatami or Mousavi being guilty of crimes, let the future court take that in to consideration (as current conservatives are).

-"There was also a lot of talk both from Mr. Akhavan and Mr. Jahanbegloo about forgiving torturers and murderers. As one questioner pointed out, these kind of speeches are nothing but a “green light” for those who are currently shooting protestors on the streets and raping and torturing protestors in prison." Back to the topic of revenge!

The author is concerned about the revenge and getting back to whoever. Fine, but this was not the forum to satisfy her anger.

Very simplistic, lacks logic, full of emotions and anger. There might be gatherings for MKO and old fashion pro Shah that she could fit perfectly and they would discuss all the issues that she is concerned about. This just wasn't to be one of those.

babak pirouzian

What he has done for Iran and humanity is not measurable to our normal standard and understanding.

Why is it "not measurable"? In the last 30 years, how many tortures, rapists, murderers orjust p[lain old street thugs who have been employed by the Islamic Republic to do the things they have done have been put on trial? How many have received a just punishment for what they have done? Can you name even one?

I honestly don't understand how anyone in good conscience can talk about REFORM with a regime that shows no signs whatseover of being willing to change or even of regret for anything that has happened in the past. And how can anyone speak of forgiveness, while the crimes continue as we speak?

Jahanbegloo continues to impress

Sayah Hassan: Do not let your emotion blind you.....

I cannot comments about Jahanbaiglou, because I do not know him at all,

I have my questions and reservation about Ganji and his past, prior to his jail term and his recent statement about flag, on which I think he is wrong creating a wall between green and "Shir O Khorshid" flag where many people have express opposing his narrow minded opinion in various publications.  Green is a movement and green flag can co-exist with SOK flag, if that's what people want and if we truly belive in democracy. Unfortunately in Iran, people do not have that type of liberty and freedom of expression.  

As far as I know, Payam Akhavan is respected internationally, who has very clear mind about despotic regime in Iran, he has been very vocal about IRI's atrocities and I believe he is among a few who is working to bring about indictment against all those who have done "crime against humanity" in Iran as he has done the same process in Bosnia.

Closing your eyes and logical mind, letting anger and emotion block your vision is unfortunate. What he has done for Iran and humanity is not measurable to our normal standard and understanding. You may want to read and study more about his activities.

Your article is incorrect, demeaning, promotes hatred, unfounded and destructive to say the least and this is helping our common enemy.   

Pls, be careful how you translate, especially in Quotation Marks

میرحسین موسوی : «شعار کلیدی مردم در راه سبزی که برگزیده اند، «جمهوری اسلامی نه یک کلمه کمتر و نه یک کلمه بیشتر» است.»

You may believe there is no difference between Islamic regime and  Islamic Republic but don't go on putting words in Mousavi's mouth

Dear Sayeh

I am on this boat with you and with he rest of true Patriotic Iranians.

Payandeh IRAN & Iranians

Down with IRI & His supporters

Reform = Crock of Crap

Reforming an Islamic regime is the biggest crock of crap yet.

Only way to a real democratic Iran is extermination of each and every element closely or remotely associated with the Islamic regime and exile of Islam to homes.

As long as Islam is a part of Iranian political system and living culture, nothing will be fixed.