For an Islamic Democracy

So Bitavan

Since you cannot answer the points rationally you resort to insults and the usual platitudes about the numbers. Since the majority of the 1.3 billion don't even understand the meaning of the Arabic words they repeat the points made are childish. Any fazleh is purely in your head. With respect!

Mr. Fozolie

VPK,   I didn’t call

VPK,

I didn’t call you a racist, but from the moment I started posting you called me “anti Iranian” and now you’re saying I’m not Iranian at all! Double standards again? It sucks when someone calls you something you’re not, isn’t it?

Iran2050

I have no reason to even think you are Iranian. Your actions prove otherwise in fact you harbor a deep hatred of Iranians. Once again: the only one who brought race in is you. No one on this blog other than you mentioned it.

Dear RB

Thank you for shedding reason here. It is interesting that Iran haters always accuse us of racism. Then bring up "Aryan". Did any of us even mention race? Did any of us say anything about hating Arabs or anyone: no!

It is inevitable they start by telling us "be self critical". Then the barrage of racist accusations. When the heck did anyone on this blog even mention race except for Iran2050? Then he goes and calls the rest of us racist.

Well it is not going to work. I have no guilt about my race. I am mixed race and that is the way it is. Not my fault who my ancestors slept with! It does not matter anyway. The nerve to comapre Kourush with Genghiz Khan.

VPK, You call Iranians who

VPK,

You call Iranians who self criticize in order for Iran to have a better future as  “Iran haters”; understood.

Reality-Bites,

The above applies to you as well. In addition, I didn’t say “you” are a racist or believe in this gibberish “Aryan superiority” although you’re definitely making extremely hard to believe you do not. I said don’t preach to me those things because you obviously have double standard and need to preach to others and you show ignorance in your ability to analyze historical events unbiased.

That’s all.

I don't want get into tit for tat name calling

And I'm not going to answer your last comment point by point since it is simply a repeat of self-Iranian/persian hating drivel you posted earlier.

But when I say you are clueless and ignorantly judgemental I'll just quote a couple of your comments to illustrate:

You state: 

"So don’t preach that to me, instead preach that to your ultra racist (borderline Fascist) Iranian friend who belittle and disrespect pretty much all of our neighbors (most notably Arabs) and even other people around the world cause they think we are “superior Aryans”. Tell to those Iranians who think we have the “Aryan gene” which makes us superior and others have an “inferior” gene, and are dirty, Iran hating, no cultured savages."

Which Iranian ultra racist and fascist friend are you wittering on about? And where did I even hint we are "superior Aryans"? Who said anything about superior genes? We're talking about history here.

You also say: 

"what about many of the Arab rulers who built great hospitals, roads, schools and other infrastructure in an empire extended from India to Spain? Those are savages right? But Dariush isn’t? Although both built “roads”? What about Alexander? Didn’t he build infrastructure within his empire? What about the Romans?"

What about Arab rulers or Roman or Alexander? Where did I say Arabs were savages? if so, point it out. Did I say Persia was the only Empire that built a civilization? The discussion is about Iran and its history. Why are you changing the subject and talking about Tom, Dick and Harry?

You harbour such ignorant hatred towards Iran's history, that you're seeing Arab haters everywhere. In no way, shape or form do I hate and think we are superior to anyone, including the Arabs. Still, I'm sure Arabs will be happy to see someone like you beating your chest for them against "Persian racism". It's just a shame that while you rage about Iranian-racism and hatred towards Arabs, you're so blinded to your own hatred of Iran's history. The firggin irony!

I'll just repeat what I said before, if there were no Kourosh, there would be no Iran, and even no self-hating Iranians like you.

This blog is

About how Islam got damaged by Islamist radicals. Not to bash Kouroush or Ardeshir. Iran2050 is trying to change the subject by trashing Iranians. 

It is a fact that hard core Islamists hate Iran. They describe it as "Jahl" and hate anything that is not 100% Islamic. Therefore this blog is being taken over on a side discussion. Back to the point: actions of Khomeini and OBL hurt Islam. That is a fact; not 2000 years old. Very recent and we all know it. Do we agree about it or are we going to go back 2000 years? Is this blog about Kourush or Ardershir? If not then how about getting back to the point. 

Iran?2050 why don't you write your own blog about how much you hate Iran.

VPK, You make things up

VPK,

You make things up and then claim I’m anti Iranian. I don’t know what to tell you about that. I have said numerous different ways to you that self criticism is the way to establish a successful nation and is very different than self loathing.

You’re right…we don’t know what exactly happened 2500 years ago,,or lets say 1400 years ago..So why do so many Iranians bash other people of things that happened around those times? If one can criticize Omar for invading Persia, why cant lets say Arabs or Semites or Egyptians criticize Achamenians for invading and ending Egypt’s pharoanic era?

How can you call yourself impartial or just or rational when you have double standard? That’s just the question. What has Iran gained from Kamboojie (Koroush’s son)invading Egypt? Tell me. Is it “glory”? Do you feel better about yourself? Then why do you blame some Arabs for feeling good about themselves when they talk about Qadesiyah for example?

Why the hypocrisy? What is his ignorance? This is sad.

Reality-Bites, I am

Reality-Bites,

I am familiar with the history of Iranian kings, I have been reading history, from a variety of sources unlike many Iranians, since I was about 11. That’s very important. You want to familiarize yourself with different points of views and see who makes the more sense, not be biased and take whatever a racist Iranian tells you as granted. I have also travelled around the world, and seen people from different backgrounds and cultures, and I speak multiple languages. That doesn’t mean I am better than others, that’s just a response to your suggestion of me familiarizing myself with history.

Now your argument:

In case you didn’t know, the Persian were those “armed to the teeth tribes and nomads” themselves for many years. They also, constantly attacked other nations, most famously Ilamis. I don’t think you would assume that the Ilamis, who had great civilization and Persians themselves absorbed many aspects of their culture into their owns (including writing), just let the Persians nomads and tribes just sweep in and invade their nation and dissolve their heritage and country, do you? I’m saying this because I actually agree with you on the notion that those days, most times but not all, you either conquer or be conquered. So what does that tell you? We’re better than others or others better than us? I’m against Persian racism and imperialism, not against Persia (i.e Iran) or Iranians. So don’t preach that to me, instead preach that to your ultra racist (borderline Fascist) Iranian friend who belittle and disrespect pretty much all of our neighbors (most notably Arabs) and even other people around the world cause they think we are “superior Aryans”. Tell to those Iranians who think we have the “Aryan gene” which makes us superior and others have an “inferior” gene, and are dirty, Iran hating, no cultured savages.

I’m sick and tired of this ignorance and racism many Iranians have within them, and I have concluded, that undoubtedly not only that is a main sources of Iran’s ills at the moment, but a huge impediment for building a future democratic, secular, respected and peaceful Iran.

You are ignorant not me. Let me ask you something, what do you think about many of the Arab rulers who built great hospitals, roads, schools and other infrastructure in an empire extended from India to Spain? Those are savages right? But Dariush isn’t? Although both built “roads”? What about Alexander? Didn’t he build infrastructure within his empire? What about the Romans? The infrastructure they built is still being used as matter of fact. Those don’t count, correct? You’re so hypocritical and biased. And what kills me is how slick you try to bypass their military campaigns by saying “let’s forget about their wars”!!! Seriously?

Koroush is applauded for being a less violent ruler than some of the other ones during his era. Foreget about Dariush! Maybe you need to go to beestoon and see for yourself his monument about how he murdered everyone who claimed power (Many legitimately,,yes, go read history my friend!).

Iran2050 Just

a few more things here:

Our founding fathers never wanted America to be an “empire”.

Who is "us" are you speaking for America now?

Regarding Ashkanids: Their standard way to power was to kill their father or brother.

Now to be fair there is not that much known about them. But what is known is not proof they were perfect or near it. What do you know of Ardeshir Papgan? You obviously hate anything Iranian so why don't you just admit it and be done. The glaring facts are in my face and no amount of stuff is gonna change it. 

Really talking about this stuff is a waste of time. How are we to prove what happened 2000 years ago. You do not like Kouroush fine; don't. I really do not care. You disrespect our history and compare Kouroush to Genghis Khan and Ardeshir to Khomeini. It tells me that I have no more reason to deal with you. If you think your way of thinking will advance Iran go ahead. I disagree completely. Americans do not compare Lincoln and Washington to Ghettoize Khan.

Iran 2050

Please don't take this as a sign of disrespect, but you really ought to familiariseyourself with the history of Kings like Kourosh and Darius better, and do so with an open mind, before you engage in crass generalisation of them as "tyrants", "Imperialists" etc.

First and foremost, judging the world of 2500 years ago by today's ideasof human rights, international organisations like the UN, world peace etc, is an exercise in futility. It was a totally different era. 2500 ago, as a nation you either conquered others or you got conquered by others. There wasn't much in the way of other alternatives if you wanted to survive. As it happens, many of the wars Kourosh and Darius fought, they did so after attacks by other invaders, and indeed Kourosh lost his life when leading defence of Persia from constant attacks from fierce tribes outside the North Easternborders of the Empire. That's how things were then.

And yes, Kourosh, Darius and other kings, did the conquering part very well and achieved a great deal for Persia and its people in the process. Conversely, as we know, later Persia itself was conquered too by Alexander and others. Like I said, you either conquered or got conquered.

It would've been amusing to see someone like you moaning about nasty Persian Imperialism to armed to the teeth invading hordes and tribes of 2500 years ago, constantly attacking Persia's borders. I'm sure they would've been very impressed by your anti-imperialist principles.

But really grates me about your inane comments on this matter, is your omission, probably born out of ignorance, of how much those Kings achieved besides fighting wars. These kings built cities and infrastructures to connect them. The built advanced civilizations. They built roads and developed communication systems. They developed the idea and structures of a federal state, with regional governance and accountability. Ancient Persians were among the first people in the World to develop a sophisticated currency, taxation and economic systems. And they extended their knowledge and their civilization to many other regions, this at a time when most people ofwhat is now the First World were still running around in caves.

And of course, Kouroush was the first known ruler to propagate and implement the idea of human rights and freedom for other people, two and half millennia before people like you got on their high horse to lecture others about what a nasty piece of work he supposedly was.

Kings like Kourosh and Darius are lauded for all those achievements not just by historians around the World, but by many others who know about history and the contribution of the Persian Empire to human civilization. It's a shame then Iranians like you, who one would've thought (and hoped), would be proud of the history of their ancestors, instead engage in spouting ignorant nonsense about it.

Kourosh was/is considered great for many reasons, one of which was in founding a whole new nation state. A nation called Iran. If there were no Kourosh, there would be NO Iran and no Iranians, even those like you that are so ignorantly contemptuous of their history.

Get a clue, for crying out.

VPK and amirparviz,  

VPK and amirparviz,

I am all on the same page with you as far as America and its foreign policy mistakes and its decline, no question there at all, however, the founding fathers of America are in no way, shape or form, similar to the founders of the Persian Empire. Just the fact that they established an “empire” makes them vastly different than America’s founding fathers. Our founding fathers never wanted America to be an “empire”. They never wanted it to have 800 bases around the world. They never wanted its economy, media and foreign policy controlled by a gang of cruel, savage murderers, namely Zionists. They never wanted it to have, like Gandhi said, “wealth without work, commerce without morality and politics without principle”.

Amirparviz, as far as Shah goes, I have serious disagreements with you on the reasons for his fall, but that’s a different story for a different day.

One thing about Iran’s history, the only ones I admire during pre Islam Iran is the Ashkanid. I consider Koroush, Dariush, K Parviz, Anoushiravan and others nothing but power hunger imperialists, but the Ashkanis, at least the majority of them, weren’t in any shape or form like that. During their period, Iran enjoyed one of its only eras of prosperity and peace. They never attacked anyone, didn’t want an empire, established a semi democratic parliament (inspired from the Greeks), preserved Iranian life, had no rebellion due to their fairness and justice, and guess what, they are the only dynasty who never collapsed due to foreign occupation, you know why? Cause they didn’t f.. With anyone, so no one f..d with them, even Romans didn’t get too adventurous with them, compared to the other two Persian imperialist dynasties. Sure they don’t have vast palaces and monuments remaining from their period because they didn’t want to spend Iranian people’s money building huge palaces for their own amusement, but I’m glad they didn’t. And you know who overthrew them? Ardeshir; a Zoroastrian version of Khomeini who thought the Ashkanis are giving too much “freedom of religion”!!! And you two are proud of this intolerant maniac? What a shame.

VPK, I think you’re mixing up bias with admiration or love or infatuation. If I didn’t care about Iran, I would not have spoken about how to make it better, that’s infatuation and love. But in order for me to understand what’s wrong, I have to keep the bias out. I’m gonna say I love Iran, but I will have no reservation speaking about what needs to be changed about it in order for it to progress, even if what I say sounds “unconventional” to many Iranians who still have outdated ways of thinking.

The Irony is those who partnered in the spoils got screwed too

The US, France and UK had access to the $5 Trillion they should not have had.

They Leant it to greece portugal ireland italy etc etc that can't even pay 50% of it back.  Sitting high and beautiful is germany, the only country to not participate initially in betrayig shah, not only has a strong export economy and no  serious banking worries, they are the only country to get a pipe line directly from Russia to guarantee their energy security no other country has it.

A ganster / organized criminal once asked, how come we don't ever hear of a single happy story for gangsters.  The answer is that morals matter in this world no matter how many of us want to deny it and quote machievelli in the end there is always a moral to each story if you look at the complete picture.  "kotakeshro zendegi mideh na oonikeh zolm kardi behesh"

I worry for you and friends of mine that lve in the usa, I see a bleak future.

VPK Use these 2 articles to plan where to work and move to in future, 

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14899148

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

After 2020 it will be too late.  Take this message seriously, once the US gains strengthagain if it has not changed, which I doubt it can, they will have big problems with china's rise and by then china will be 3 times what it is today and no easy country to compete with.  Same with Russia its ally will be 5th to 7th wealthiest nation in the world and rising.

norway, denmark, being constitutional monarchies don't have poverty due to social services for all based on level of wealth.  They will respect you and treat you with dignity and take care of your kids.  No stress, free private health, home, food, free legal council everything to live stress free, while we wait for freedom in iran etc

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

You are very right on  it. America is suffering directly because of its policies. If they had supported the Shah they would not be in this mess. Iran would be keeping ME stable. There was no need for troops in Iraq or Afghanistan.

No waste of trillions; no constant worries and war. People like me who have a job are worried. No one in America feels secure in their jobs. Not even the once secure public workers. Their contracts torn up and voided. All to fund the wars.

At this point I know American moving to India to manage companies! Insane housing market in California where a dump in Palo Alto cost 800K. And who will pay for it? Artificially low interest rates that wreck the dollar. What a mess. All would have been avoided if they had not destabilized ME. But they did. They knew better that Shah had to go. Now instead of a real friend they got a half dozen enemies. Plus "friends" such as Pakistan.

Iran 2050 the book was very good

Explains the principles that made iran a great country and the founding fathers of the constitution of America learned from its wisdom and followed it to a T.  Hence, a culture that the monarchy defended was that of Life, Freedom and pursuit of happiness with all religions being free and not interfering in government or the other way around.

As for bias, we are not in a perfect world, it's good to try to act honestly, but you have to be prepared for others to not play win / win for all sides.  The Shah did not make a mistake, he was just plain betrayed and the cost of the betrayal means lose lose in the long run, more than anything for the USA which can not rely on imperialism and militarism, because like all countries that make the mistake theyare not invincible as strong as they are ill fortune will knock at their door too.  Today after losing in Iraq and Afghanistan and strengthening the IRI, they are weaker and in decline.

10 years of no new job creation since 2001(wow), 1.5 million college graduates unable to get work each year for past 2 years and expected to continue until the end of the decade.  One clear result of this wrong colonial/military/imperial policy is the announcemet last week by only 1 bank, bank of America of laying off 30,000 people.  What a time to do it.

The number of Americans
living in poverty rose to 46.2 million last year, nearly one in six
people, from the US Census Bureau's annual report.

The 2010 data shows the poverty rate at 15.1%, from 14.3% in
2009. The number of Americans without health insurance rose to 49.9 million.

This is what happens when your approach is to use expensive wars to steal other peoples resources for 0.20 cents on the dollar. With all the ill gotten money they had, around $5 trillion from cheap oil,  they then 1) lent out $45 to $55 trillion badly and lost $35 trillion of it. 2) they also put $3 trillion of military costs on the national credit card 3) and add $1.5 trillion a year due to deficits.  That is why they are not expected to come out of the whole they dug themselves into until after 2020.

Sources

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14903732

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14889446

Regarding Bias

It is always good to have a bias for your side or you get ***. I have a bias towards my family specially for my kids. My parents had a bias for me. For example my father paid for my education but not for that of a stranger.

I will pay for my own kids education. If there is a choice of my kids getting the best or someone else I will side with mine. Same goes with Iran I will side will Iran. The idea of "I am unbiased" is the road to self destruction. Because all the others will take their own side. We are in the real world not fantasy. People are selfish. They will try to take from others. Iranians better make sure to watch for themselves; no one else is going to. That is one reason I don't care about Palestine: not our problem.

This whole idea of being unbiased is utter nonsense. Better to be honest and admit my bias. Then people know what they are dealing with. I am biased towards my family; my nation and my adopted nation.

VPK, If my lengthy

VPK,

If my lengthy explanation didn’t make you understand I don’t have bias against any nation, let alone my own, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

One thing I would say is that if more and more Iranians like me speak up, and they are, iran will have a much better chance getting to that modernity and civility and freedom point we all, including yourself, want. The issue is that you don’t know how Iran needs to get to that point and we do.

Amirparviz,

BIAS is never productive, there is no such thing that BIAS in favor of the people I like is “good”. I think that has been the issue with Iran. We cant and don’t want to see the truth.

By the way, I read that book when I was 17.

Iran 2050

I am not interested in a big debate over nothing with you. My observation is you have an anti-Iranian bias. I do not really know or care why. Go ahead and post as you wish. Islam is a hundred times more imperialist than Iran.

Iran 2050 I see your point, yes I have a bias

I overlook what he destroyed because I admire what he created compared with what was there before.  Ideally he should not have destroyed at all, agreed.  Today I am for people being free to chose and would give that choice to every group inside/outside iran, from georgia, through iran to kazakstan.

You didn't read the link did you. Iran2050 I provided you a

 historical document written by a person who fought against the persians.

Kourosh Kept the same leaders and soldiers of countries he did defeat by war and gave them later the option to leave his empire, Only Aremenians chose this freely years later and were allowed to leave.  So yes he brought freedom, where previously there was no tolerance and many many more wars than before he arrived.  That's the reason he is admired today.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy, you are misguided.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy, 

 Trying to analyze historical events using ideological lens, usually with the ultra nationalism lens, is a common problem amongst us Iranians, and this approach will not help us identify the root cause of those events.

I’m not sure why you skip passed the “conquer” part so nonchalantly and focus on the aftermath of the conquest. That to me is going on the wrong path from the beginning. As I said before, and please answer me, what did happen when Koroush was trying to conquer the vast land he did? Didn’t people, including innocent Iranians, get murdered? This is a yes or no question. Also, did Babylonians and Lydians gave the key to their nation to him or did they fight and died trying to defend their nation from an invader and an imperialist? That’s also a yes or no question.

 Again, maybe the death toll of his conquests was less then some other kings, what does that prove? That he was a “gentle” conqueror? Just because he didn’t mass murder people that should negate the fact that he conquered and he murdered and he occupied? He should get a free pass for that? Why? Cause he was a “Persian”???? That’s hypocrisy mixed with racism mixed with ignorance mixed with bullyness mixed with intolerance.

The things you mentioned about him is also true for many aspects, not all, about Alexander. Are you willing to forgive him for conquering Iran since he was “not a mass murdered conqueror”? How about if we be fair and objective here for a second.

Vpk, I love the way

Vpk,

I love the way you’re twisting words now: Koroush is an “Expansionist”??? You do not have an argument my friend. Koroush, just like Genghis Khan, was an “IMPERIALIST”. Why? Very simple, because just like Genghis Khan, he attacked other nations and occupied them for absolutely no reason other than to build an empire and to gain power and wealth. What do you think happened as result of Koroush’s conquests? People, including Iranians, got murdered for nothing. Do you think the people of Babylon and Lydia and elsewhere just gave up their country to him because he was allegedly brining “freedom and justice”??? No one got killed as result of Koroush’s “quest for freedom”? Come on my friend. Explain to me, what kind of “freedom” did Koroush bring to Babylonians and Lydians?

Ok, granted, the death toll as result of Koroush’s occupations was less than Genghis Khan’s; but does that make Koroush “just”??

Self loathers are the ones who say that, for example, we Iranians will never progress, and we can never get it right. By that, they are implying that there is a physical or biological hurdle that’s keeping us from progressing. That’s of course is not true. That’s a self loather. Try to distinguish between a self loather and a criticizer. It is important to understand this fact:

“How people of a nation think and act is result of the socio-economic-political experience they have gone through as people and as nation. Those three factors determine the psyche of nation”.

For example, if you are from a country like Iran that has been plagued with tyranny for 2500 years, people tend not to question authority, not to have tolerance for the views of others, to be skeptic,,,,and so forth. The degree of how these people behave each of the above mentioned depends on how strong was the tyrannical system? What’s the economy of that nation? The religion, the neighbors, ..ect…that’s what determines the psyche, not “genes”. Iranians are not born skeptic, they’re raised like that. Please try to understand.

Iran 2050 after you read a bit of the link I provided

so you know what you are talking about. Please share with me something about my mentality.

Here is the same link again.

//www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk...

Iran 2050 I think you are just unaware, as well as wrong.

Yes we need awareness to identify problems and not make errors identifying the wrong things that would set us on the wrong path.  Kourosh did not harm groups after conquest.  He united some of iran without force even.  He did not replace the generals or political groups, like the usa did in iraq, he used something that has nothing to do with imperialism as we see it today, he spread toleration, freedom of relligion was first ours as he helped rebuild peoples various churches.  In each country he went to, K wore the locals clothes and said he was a disciple of their local religion.  That is a big difference with the Iranian monarchy and those of Europe.  The Shah is the highest religous figure of all religions and freedom of religion exists because of this.  So the Shah is the first shia the, first sunni, the first catholic, the first protestant, the first jew himself and is their defender and cannot legally discriminate against any of them. Strong or weak all are free.

To read our history and get a start with cyropaedia by xenophon which was required reading for all of the US Government.

//www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk...

Iran 2050

Kourosh did not go around wholesale murdering people. Genghis Khan did. If you really do not see the difference then there is a problem. Kourosh was definitely an expansionist. But he brought freedom and justice. At least that is why history and his own declarations say. Genghis is well known for depopulating vast regions. Both conquered but one killed everyone; the other freed them. There were others like Alexander who were in between. 

As for America people do call the liberal self loathing. You bet they do I know because I live in America. In the 60's there was a saying "love it or leave it". The right wingers said it to the anti war left wingers. 

The problem with some Iranians is they think we are worse than others. I lived in America over 30 years. I have seen scum bags who cheat; lie and steal. I also saw kind and gentle people. Then I realized that in that sense Iranians are no different. I have had many great experiences with Iranians. On many occasions I have had financial dealings with Iranians. People I barely knew. Just one of them cheated me and that was over 30 years ago. The rest treated me honestly. I don't think there is anything specially bad about Iranians. Or specially good about Americans. Iranians take criticism as well as anyone else. Some hate it; others listen but in general people do not like it. That is a human thing not an Iranian thing.  

VPK,   I am all for

VPK,

I am all for the things you mentioned. No disagreement at all.

I think your issue is that you are unable to distinguish between self criticism which is a vital tool to use to establish any successful society and “self loathing”. That’s where you have an issue. Look at the progressive movement here in America, they criticize every aspect of American life from the moment the English came to this country up until today and about how we eat, speak, think…ect…And that’s why America is what it is. No one calls them “self loathers”, in fact, every successful society needs those people. Amongst us Iranians, it is a crime to you criticize Iran’s past or culture or other aspects. Well , that’s why Iran is in this situation.  The first step of solving a problem is identifying it.

You are dead wrong on the imperialism issue. How on earth is what Koroush did anything different than what Nader did? Or K Parviz did? How does invading other nations make us “great”?? Can’t you see you contradict yourself; you refuse to admit Iran’s imperialistic tendencies by supporting one of Iran’s greatest ever imperialistic adventures during Koroush’s time!!! You’re basically saying occupying other nations and invading them makes you “great”…! Using that analogy, Genghis Khan is the “greatest” man in history!

The definition of “nation” and “country” has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. It seems that you still go by the old definition. You have to understand that human experience has progressed. We have evolved as civilization, and with our evolution, some definitions have evolved to guarantee what’s best for humans. The idea of having Iran united at the expense of oppressing, killing, disenfranchising and belittling any ethnic groups, even the Fars (And I’m one of them!), is not a 21st century, progressive value. It’s medieval, and it’s outdated, and I am not prepare to tolerate it. I won’t even tolerate it if it happens in America! Because there is nothing more important than the dignity and rights of human beings, even at the expense of the so called “unity”, and that’s what clearly stated in the universal declaration of human rights. Now, if Iran did not oppress any religious or ethnic minority and if it granted them rights and prosperous life, I will be the first person who will stand in the face of anyone who wants to disintegrate Iran.

Iran 2050 part 2

My mentality welcomes self examination and improvement. If you bothered to read my post I am all for fixing our shortcomings. I support:

• A bill of rights like that of USA
• Free education
• Secularismm
• Banning death penalty.
• Equal rights for all including women; gays and people of any or no religion.
• Respect for all ethnic groups and a second language based on choice.

What else do you want from me? I do not support beating ourselves up. To degrade ourselves and make fake claims of inferiority. Some Iranians seem to think that we need to blame ourselve for everything. I only blame people for what they are guilty of. Not for supposed "Iranian faults" which are sterotyping.

As for imperialism some of those you mention are what made Iran great. From Kourosh to Anushirvan they made Iran great. Nader Shah went too far and I do not support his excesses.  Khorsow Parviz also went too far and his endless wars with Rome wrecked Iran. I have no intention of changing my genes or giving up on a Greater Iran. If you think that is imperialism then yes I am an imperialist and proud of it. No plans to change it now or at any time.

Iranians are not the same as Arabs or Chinese. Not better but different and there are many different kinds of Iranians. There are Arab Iranians and Kurd Iranians. They are not the same not in language or customs. But they are all Iranians and united we stand. You sound like you want Iran to disintegrate into lots of tiny little bits to prove we are not "imperialistice". I oppose that. It will weaken us. A broken up nation will be like Afghanistan or Yugoslavia. A united nation is like America able to provide safety for its people and its citizens. I want that.

PS,

The times we went through hard times are when we were divided. When we listened to those who tell us to doubt ourselves. For 1400 years we let Islam tell us we need it. Now our eyes opened we realize we do not.

VPK, Your mentality is

VPK,

Your mentality is what destroyed Iran because you aggressively push back anyone who is trying to locate Iran’s shortcomings. People like you refuse to even acknowledge there are shortcomings. As results, those shortcomings will only grow and grow until they reach crisis point, and that is exactly what happened in Iran. We had two groups: the ultra nationalists who think “Aryan” Iran is flawless and we have the extreme shites, who think “Shite Iran” is flawless. They have narrowed and limited Iran into those what they believe “flawless” aspects. Although those two are in conflict, but in fact, they have came together to destroy Iran.

Yes, Iran has always been an “imperialistic” nation, no question at all, just read the history. It always had and has an “imperialist” agenda. If at times we weren’t able to execute that agenda, it’s because we couldn’t do it, and that’s exactly what happened in the last 300 years. We were weak thanks to the Qajars and others. But what did the rest of kings like Koroush and Dariush and Khosrow Parviz and Nader and others do? You wanna tell me why did Koroush attack Babylon? Why did Nader attack India? All IMPERIALISTIC agenda.

Now, does that mean we can’t ever change? Not necessarily, and it’s simply because there are no such things as “imperialistic” genes! The way we act is result of political and socio economic conditions. For 2500 years, we have gone through things, good and bad, that made us who we are, and in that, we are no different than any other nations or people, whether they are Jews,  Arabs, Chinese, Indians, and others. It all depends on what we have gone through politically, socially and economically. No one is good or bad when they’re born. Its life experience is what makes you act the way you do. History is what makes us, but we have a chance to be different only and only if we recognize what we need to change about ourselves.

As far as Zionists go, absolutely. Every progressive person in the world will tell you that what Israel has done the last 60 years has been one of the main reasons that resulted in the clash of civilization we see between East and West today. There are of course other factors such as American foreign policy mistakes, Zionist control of media and politics and economy in America, IRIs perpetuation of shite fundamentalism, the events of 9/11…and others. If we talk about the top 3 reasons, we can include 1- Israel’s occupation 2- Iranian regime’s perpetuation of fundamentalism 3- America’s foreign policy mistakes, which are result of Zionists control of U.S policy towards the Middle East.

Iran 2050

You do not speak for Iran so just stick to your opinion. How did VPK get Iran into this mess? That is a pretty wild accusation. Did I overthrow the Shah? Did I even set policy. I was minding my own business. 

Regarding Iranian "imperialism" In the past 300 years Iran has not attacked one nation. Which is more that I could say for a lot of others. Where does the "imperialism" thing come from? What lands has Iran conquer and who did it subjugate. 

You are the one who is blaming all the world problems on Zionists and Iran. Nationalism is what keeps a nation together. If you want nationalism go to USA one day. All over the place American flags; ribbons and "support the troops". 

VPK: Iran doesn't want your "doosti khaleh kherseh"

VPK,

Stop falsely accusing people and think clearly for once.

The biggest problem with Iranians like you, who got us into the mess we’re in right now, is that you think Iran and everything related to it is “perfect”.  There is no such thing. When we criticize aspects of Iranian mentality or behavior or politics or culture, we are doing so because we love Iran and we want it to become a modern, 21st century civilized nation by dumping old habits and old way of thinking that have proven to cause nothing but loss and grief and backwardness. We don’t want Iran to be a nation that is drowning in outdated ultra nationalist gibberish that proved to be so devastating. You come from a background that thinks any criticizing of Iran is punishable by naming one “anti Iranian”.

Also, not sure where you got the “you hate Jews” reference!!!! Comical. Maybe you can explain