Roozbeh_Gilani

Mahmood Fazel

What is our religion anyway I want to know. There is no our religion. My religion is my business and your is of no interest to me. Islam Shai or otherwise makes my religion its business. There is what the problem is. I do not want Islam forced on me or my children. If Islam was to become a personal matter I will leave it alone. If not I will treat it as my enemy. I do not appreciate being told what to do. When to eat (Ramadan) and when to pray or if to pray. As long as Muslims insist on sticking their nose in my business I will oppose them. 

Roozbeh

I agree with your conclusions as well as some of commenters here.  I hope you know that I am a secular Iranian-American, but given a choice (and only choices) between IRI and the late Shah, I must choose the Shah.

Under the late Shah, Iranians did not have political freedoms, but at least we had plenty of social freedoms.  Meanwhile, under IRI, there is absolutely no political as well as social freedoms. 

Some will say that Iran has elections now, but Iranians are just selecting from a list of IRI-approved/stamped officials.  I.E., no true elections under IRI.

Which similarities?

Once again someone compares Shah to mullahs and rapist and murderers.

Yes and yes and yes, Shah was the king and only person who was calling shut on all major issues and he was constantly was worried about invasion of the country by Russian and other major powers.

Yes we had political prisoners and yes some were executed, but really who were these so called political prisoners, commies who never lived in Russia or any commie country and they were victim of cold war, they were thinking that they could bring equality to the country, but they never thought why Russian spies are feeding them and what was the freedom they were suppose to establish, was it Stalin democracy?

About others which whether were todeh or any other groups, somehow all were Islamist groups which we now and our people are enjoying it, it is called IRI, true Islamic justice and freedom and democracy.

ABOUT FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY:

Our country and nation had a Real freedom and democracy till 1979 and after that our people openly and voluntarily closed all the doors and freedom and democracy for good.

Our people will never have the same freedoms of shah time, social freedom and economical and cultural and educational and religion freedoms that we never understood and also independent court system.

If you live in western countries and you think you have more freedom than what Shah time you had or your parents had, you must be fooling yourself. Our nation was free in every sense, but freedom for our nation was illusion and we never understood it and still don’t understand it.Political freedom is for people who want to be in power, what is politic for ordinary Iranian?Do our people care about politics and do they care about who is in power?What our people care is to be left alone, to have a job and make a family and buy a house and could walk freely in the streets and their kids could go universities and schools safely and with no worries.  

This is all nonsense and you know it!

The previous regime was too good and too sophisticated for Iranians.

Shah was too advanced and progressive for the backward mullah-loving  Gholams, Asghars, and Yadollahs.

Iranians need and deserve worse than Akooonds (e.g., MEK!)

Repeat after me, Iranians do NOT have the capacity and deserve to live in a democracy, period!

They will destroy it the moment they get their hands on it!

Completely agree

We are in full agreement Roozbeh Jaan. Shah and his father (and those around them as it is never one man) bear the guilt of stopping the democratic reforms in Iran. Shah also suppressed the political freedom while gave the power and influence that his father had taken away from clergy back to this forces of backwardness. Yes, without Shah's poor judgement there would be no VF.

DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ON PRESENT IRAN

Every individual has the right to present his/her views on how he feels about the present regime.However,it must be pointed out that we have,at our disposal,tremendous guidance from Imam Ali(AS) and his difficulties and how he managed to cope with these difficulties.Wherever you are,I would call upon the Iranians not to isolate themselves with culture and associate with another that does not belong to us.Some of the articles here suggest that besides the disliking of the present regime some of you write sometihings which are totally against our religion.It is painful indeed to read these types of articles.By leaving Iran have some of you abondoned the Shia culture taught to us by the Prophet and his excellent progeny?This is where one fails to understand the writers.Irrespective of our attitude towards the regime in Iran,never ever abondon the Islamic thoughts.They were not given to us by Khamenei or Ahmedinejad,for Gos sake.Follow the path of Imam Ali (AS) and then talk politics.It really hurts me to read articles from some of you making it look as though you have totally dissassociated from your culture.Don't do it.Retain it else you will be lost in this material world.

Roozbeh jaan

You don't need to justify why you wrote this blog. You made some very salient and worthwhile points on the similarities between two regimes/systems that were/are repressive and authoritarian.

The Pahlavi regime might not have been as brutal and savage, and it certainly allowed far more social freedoms (as I tried to point out) than the IR, but it too deserves condemnation for denying people political freedom and violating the human rights of those (from whatever political stand point) that opposed or even criticized it.

Unless we know and learn from our history, we are likely to repeat its mistakes. So your articles like yours are vital to remind us of this.

My post was to essentially to point out, despite it many shortcomings, many of which were in common with the next regime (as outlined by you) Iran made a transition into something far worse. As we say in Iran: "az chaaleh dar oomadim, oftaadim to chaah".

purpose of this blog.

 Dear AO and Reality bite. You both have valid points. In fact almost everyone who experienced life under late shah and islamist regime as adults tell me that they'd prefer living under shah. But let us not forget that these are the very same people who supported the revolution......

The reason I wrote this blog was not to have a pop at pahlavis (what's to be gained??) or even Islamist regime (They'll be gone much sooner than most here believe....). I just wanted to highlight certain common traits amongst the dictators as let's say warning signs for future. Pahlavis and IRI were chosen as we all know of them. On Dr Mossadegh, he to me only represents a truely democratically elected leader - the only one in our known history- irrespective of his faults.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Here are a few differences between the two regimes

Roozbeh makes some valid points about the similarities between the two regimes (and some less so). So, I think it's fair to also point out some differences.

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did not tell you what to eat, what not to eat, unlike the IR.

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did not tell you what to drink, what not to drink, unlike the IR. 

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did not tell you how to dress, how not to dress, unlike the IR. 

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did not tell you couldn't listen to music, hold parties and generally have fun, unlike the IR.

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did not tell you who could socialize or even be seen with in public, and who not, unlike the IR. 

- Under the Pahlavis, you could travel to anywhere outside Iran without any restrictions, unlike the IR.  

- Under the Pahlavis, Iranians were treated with courtesy and respect overseas and not like potential terrorists/extremists and pariahs, unlike the IR. 

- Under the Pahlavis, you could get an education and public jobs regardless of your religion, unlike the IR.  

- Under the Pahlavis, women had far more rights and freedoms , unlike the IR.   

- Under the Pahlavis, the regime did go out of its way to make enemies for Iran by constantly threatening other countries and arming/funding/supporting extremist groups overseas, unlike the IR.

- Under the Pahlavis, if you opposed the regime you were far more likely to be treated leniently if you expressed regret and desisted from your activities (provided your actions were not as serious).

So, do I think it was paradise under the Pahlavis and wish Iran to go back to exactly how it was then? Not at all. Like Roozbeh, I wish to see one day Iran establish a secular constitution promoting and preserving freedom, democracy, respect for human rights and national identity.

However, if I ever had to choose between a life under the Pahlavis and Velaayate Fagheeh, I'd choose the Pahlavis every time.

Roozbeh Gerami - It's all because we are a backward nation

A Lebanese friend pointed that out to me once.  He said "don't look at North Tehran.  The majority of Iranians are backward, super religious, fanatical people."  And he was (and is) right.  There's no beating around the bush.  Post Ass-lam,  we became a backward, religiously fanatical nation.  The short Pahlavi era was the only  post Ass-lam time in Iran where we, relatively speaking, had digressed a bit from religious backwardness.  And our nation couldn't take it.  We deposed him to put "haj agha" mollah in charge.  That's how we are.  We worship the waste that comes out of akhoonds' behinds.  That's how we have always been and that's how we always will be.

And for those who don't think that the West had anything to do with bringing Khomeini to power, all they need to reminds themselves of is the image of Khomeini onboard and Air France 747, landing at Mehrabad Airport with much fanfare, while the Shah's plane was not being allowed to land in a single Western nation.  And if that's not enough, they should consider the fact  that bringing Khomeini to power and getting rid of Shah made sense AT THE TIME for the West.  I do not have much time to discuss all the reasons here, but I wrote a blog about it some time ago.  Here it is:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous-observer/mohammad-reza-pahlavi-no-ones-stooge

more responses.

Dear Ayatoilet: Thank you for the insight. Your friends comments confirm what most Iranians know alreeady.

Dear Masoud fazel and VPK: I frankly do not see the relevance of your comments to my blog which is focused on 10 areas of similarities between IRI and pahlavi. But if you want me to praise the islamist regime, There are contributers here who daily remind us of the positive attributes of the islamist regime. I am certainly not one. I am against the islamist regime. I want it overthrown and replaced with a secular democracy. But VPK aziz, why dont you write a blog about what you perceive to be positive aspects of the islamist regime (Iran's regional influence, space programme, etc), and I'll challenge you point on point and prove to you that these grandeuos claims by the regime are at best  castles built on sand....  

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Mahmood Fazel

I am not a fan of IRI but you have some good points. If IRI is so stupid then how did they manage to keep power for so long. How did they keep Iran intact despite all the work by outside powers. In fact under the IRI:

• Iranian influence in the region has increased.
• Iraq is basically a satrap of IRI. No decsision is made in Iraq without approval from Tehran!
• Lebanon is heavily influenced by Iran. The IRI through Hizbollah controls much of Lebanese politics. So again these "idiots" have managed to extend their reach all the way to Lebanon.
• Afghanistan is also under heavy influence of Iran.
• Armenia is heavily reliant on Iran for trade. It owes its economy to Iran and knows it well. Iran uses Armenia to keep Republic of Azarbayjan under control.
• Iran is one of the handful of nations with a space program. How many nations are able to send a satelite into orbit? Iran is one.

As much as I hate the IRI we got to be realistic. Post IRI regimes should not squander this influence. If for example they withdraw support for Hizbollah it should be at a price.

• Don't just dump them! Ask for as much as you can get for it.
• Do not give up the space program under any conditions.
• The nuclear thing as well. I am not a fan of nuclear but Iran has a right to it. Fine no weapons but at least keep the technology. Don't just bend over backwards and give it up like MKO wants to. Even Shah had the sense to keep it.  
• Never stop support for Armenia. Keep them as allies. They are one of our best allies. Plus they are organized in USA providing a good political ally. Their influence will help counter AIPAC.
• Keep the alliance with Tajikistan. AN was right when he said we are one soul in two nations. In fact I would increase ties with them to a point of joint citizenship.
• Keep the influence in Afghanistan specially northern part. Northern Afghanistan is practically a part of Iran. Give citizenship to Northern Afghans. Plus encourage their immigration to Khuzestan.
• Keep the influence in Iraq. All of Eastern Iraq is traditional Iranian territory. Iraqi Kurds and Shia Arabs should be given a lot of attention and rights in Iran. They are pretty much a part of Iran.

I agree with Divaneh

to some degree. The regimes are not that similar. Proof is that during Shah most of us still lived in Iran. Despite the "burtality" which I question it was "good enough". As I said if Shahi regime was around most of us would be in Iran. Or at least living there and maybe in the West for vacation.

• Someone accused disapora of being "rich and Westernized". If Shah managed to create 3-9 million rich Iranians good for him!
• I am somewhat familiar with Golesorkhi. I watched some of his trial on youtube. He admitted to being an Islamist himself. So he was not a secular man. I used to admire him when I was a kid. I watched his trial and was impressed by his stance. However now that I am older I see the error of his ways. The man was crazy as they get! Being comitted does not mean being right.
• Shah was a dictator without a question. I know that because my family was "in the loop". But he was also pro Iran. He loved Iran and wanted to be a great king. He was dellusional but a patriot.

All articles pertaining to

All articles pertaining to Iran,draws only one conclusion and that is the present regime of the Islamic Republic Of Iran know nothing about how to govern the country.It is very odd,isn't it?You have to give credit where credit is due.You make it look as though the present regime is totally wrong in everything it does whilst the world at large acknowlwdges it that the Iranians have made tremendous progress in quite a number of fields.I do not endorse everything that the present regime is doing but there is a limit to every article that one reads on your site as well.

My suggestion is to have positive attitude in your outlook about Iran and agree to disagree certain policies.No problem in that at all.

On Number 1 - Here's more info

When I lived in London (UK), I met (and ended up spending a lot of time via my part-time job) with a former MI6 agent. He was canadian actually, but worked for them in the MIddle East, with his last assignment in Iran (where he had been for over a decade). Not long after the revolution, he left Iran and retired in London, and eventually was so sick that had to be in a nursing home. Anyway, he provided me with detailed accounts of how MI6 had been deeply involved in the Shah's demise. There is no question they were deeply involved, along with other intelligence agencies.

Iranians for sure took to the streets, and wanted their freedom and democracy etc. But the revolution was twisted, shifted ...manipulated in a very specific direction. Sort of like what is going on in Egypt right now, the Military supported the uprising, but is now shifting the course of the uprising in a very specific direction.

In any case, the powers that be all had a different sense of how the Islamic regime would turn out ... but it was a decision that was not so much anti-Shah, but more due to a major strategic shift in the West on how to deal with some critical issues they have been (and still) face. As they say, its business. The facts are right there in front of you in the history books if you simply want to do the analysis.

One final point, MI6 and CIA are active globally. So by the way are other intelligence agencies...Israel, Russia, China, etc. etc. There are many places where the masses are not so easily manipulated and the elites are a little more wiser, more patriotic than some of the whores we find in Iran from time to time. You can not fault any country for trying to pursue its interests, it is we Iranians that do a poor job pursuing our own national interests despite outside involvement.  We need to stop blaming others for our demise, and we need hand out learn how to organize and respond.  I love it when France walked away from supporting the US during the Iraq invasion, the Americans stop buying french wine and changed the names of fried potatoes. For god's sake, Iranians can't even boycott BP gas stations that raped and pillaged Iran for over 50 years and were absolutely involved in stealing Iranian democracy - not once but twice. We must educate and empower Iranians to take responsibility and respond....and ultimate take control of their own country.

Its starts with you, Mammad, understanding what went down in 1979.

Thanks for the comments Friends.

Ayatilet aziz: Glad you enjoyed it

Amir parviz Jan: You are my favourite Monarchist here. I like the way you do not mince your words and your steadfast support of a hardline monarchist system. If RP ever gets to power, he should put you in charge of the new SAVAK. The only thing is, he claims that he is gonna be good, no SAVAK....

Mammad Gerami. Thanks for the detailed response. On #1, I fully agree that the revolution itself was popular as any other revolution. I do however firmly believe that based on the evidence (Guadalope conference, list of leftist and secular activists supplied to islamist regime post revolution by CIA, etc), both CIA and British intelligence services helped to prop up the islamsit regime to counter and defeat the revolution. and install a taliban like, anti communist system in Iran.

Divaneh gerami: In general I agree with you that shah came nowhere near islamic regime, certainly when it comes to brutality. Khosrow Golsorkhi would had been hanged as a drug dealer, no trials, let alone public one. but I hope that you'd agree with me that without shah brutal suppression of all secular opposition, we would not have vali faghih ruling us today.

Aynak aziz: I look forward to the day when Evin jail will be turned into a museum of shame, similar to former Nazi concentration camps. Where Iranian children would visit it and feel shame and disbelief on how the previous rulers treated the best and brightest of Iranian youth....

Ekham khanoom, I nominate you as deputy SAVAK boss, under Amirparviz.

Dearest Soosan khanoom. On Tudeh Party, I believe they claimed that shah was also reformable. They followed soviet union's policy slavishly. Shah was also pally with russians. But islamist regime killed many more socialists and communists than shah could even dream of killing. Many survivers of SAVAK were summarily executed by the islamist regime in mass murder of Mojahedeen and leftist prisoners in summer of 1989.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

My take

1. Do not agree, because I do not believe MI6 or CIA had any role in the 1979 revolution or its victory.

2. Agree. For those Shahollahies who do not know: Twice there were attempts on the Shah's life [in the 1940s and 1960s], and both times he claimed that Hazrat-e Abolfazl saved him. Tthe second time the weekly Towfigh gave a great response, "bilaakh, Hazrat-e Abolfazl dast nadaasht," on its last page, lower left corner, without any explanation or reference to what Shah had said, which caused its shotdown for one month.

3. Agree.

4. Agree

5. Agree

6. Agree

7. Disagree in the following sense. The Shah was not aware. The IRI is aware, but has cornered itself and does not know what to do to get out, other than repression. It is aware that any meaningful opening will quickly lead to its downfall.

8. Agree

9. Disagree, in the sense that Rajavi still wants blood, and Congress is only a stop for him on the his way to the neverland of power in Iran.

10. I agree, but only about obsession of both with Israel.

Mammad

Excellent Blog Dear Rozbeh

but I think the followings requires minor changes

For # 3

I should say only Shah hated " commies "  IRI has always enjoyed its love affair with Russia and IRI has been in bed with HezbehTodeh for a long long time ...

and for # 10 I believe Shah was a Pro Isreal compare to  IRI ..... We all know that IRI is feeding on its unconditional hate towards Isreal !!

Stilll you have brought up many great points in this blog especially  that they both think Iran is  erse pedareshoon

There is no comparison

This is laughable and only reveals your ignorance of Iranian history.

Re: As for 3

Thank you amiparviz for yet another revelation of true intent of monarchists.   Not only have you folks not learned anything from your dictatorial rule, but in no uncertain term, and very evident from almost all of the monarchy supporters expressed views and actions,  you have no respect or need for democracry.   The fact you would pick no 3, instead of any of the other 9 and IN agreement with the content of the post is the proof.

نه تنها خر عوض نشده، پالونش هم عوض نشده.

You don't even have enough shame to condemn creation of Evin.  Your comment  is the best backup for Roozbeh's list.

ایران برای همه ایرانیان
رای ایرانیان - دولت ایرانیان
نه ولایت وقیح نه پادشاه سفیه

Not that similar

Whilst the last Shah was a dictator, he and his regime were not comparable to the IRI. The present regime is nothing but a bunch of backward mobs whilst the last regime held to some minimum principles. I also think blaming Pahlavis for the common guilt of opportunism and abuse of power that was practiced by those around them is not fair and indirectly links Reza Pahlavi to some acts in which he has had no share. I find RP to be a positive force in Iran politics and think if his followers followed his vision of a powerless and ceremonial monarchy in a democratic country, we could have reached the much needed unity.

Amir Parviz

I am sorry to say this but people like you who clearly defend and promote dictatorship are those who give a false view of RP and those who support his vision. This is certainly a case of friendship of aunt bear (doosti khaleh kherse).

As for 3

doesn't experience prove it to be true that we can't handle it??? not a question of deserve.

and not just that, not everyone wants to live in a democracy after seeing rome, greece, america etc etc

give iranians some credit, not everyone is as you put it stupid.

Whats wrong wih freedom, justice and peace.

We had those better than any democracy in the 70's.

If it requires fantasy an imagination to create a list

you probably shouldn't put one together.

though since many of the points you mention while untrue were talking points of foreign media one can not entirely blame you.

this is a good example after all, of the level of ignorance the pahlavi's had to contend with during their years.

LOL - Good Job

Great ...enjoyed it.