javaneh29

Dear David ET

You are absolutely right in your depiction of this website and how it operates! :-)
O just wished people like you would not leave it for the mobs you see around, benefitting from such personal whims of the owner all the time, to take over completely.

:)

Souri khanum,I appriciate your open-mindedness.
I wish we had more of you.

Dear Alborz,

I also appreciate your comment and patience with which you try to put your point of view across. I have a lot of respect for the way you communicate and I understand your frustration when people cannot engage you or your view points the way you always conduct yourself, in a civilized manner.

Let me quickly make a few comments:

Regarding JJ’s daughter, just for the record, I agree with you, in a way Chelesea Clinton or the Children of Obama are similar to JJ’s daughter. But I think none of them should be would fair game, for the reasons I have already explained.

Obviously, you think that the publication of the controversial cartoons of Muhammed a couple of years ago should’ve been banned. I don’t.  I agree with JJ, the more taboos we break the better and healthier our minds and our society. And as for Baha’ullah being a person you hold dear and can “relate” to in just the same way as JJ relates to his daughter, may I ask you ff being able to relate to somebody is the criteria then where do you draw the line?  Because believe it or not, there are people who relate to Bush, Khomeini, or even Hitler. Should they be off limit as well?

As for the sites policy, despite what the policy statement says, and we all know how words can be interpreted differently by the law. Honestly, I doubt I the blog we are talking about would build a case. Let me try to explain though an example. When Madonna burned the cross in her Like a Prayer video back in the 80s, she insulted the whole Christian world by burning one of their most important and respected iconographies. They were outraged, but they couldn’t take her to court, no even in the religious America.

So really my point is, once we choose to love a public figure, we have to accept there will be people who however unjustifiably might hate the same person we love. Yes, it might be shocking, disgusting, outrageous and painful, but its part and parcel of the deal, and it doesn’t add or subtract anything from the person we might revere .

Having said all this, I agree with you, JJ needs to be a lot clearer about what he is doing. Obviously, his “gut feelings”, as you put it, has upset quite a few people here, and we would all benefit from some clarifications. I personally have complained to him about innocent comments that I have seen get deleted regularly, and never received a response. So there is still a lot of work to be done on both side of spectrum.

There we go, sorry it turned to another loooong winded comment. I leave you by saying I have grown to love this community with its beautiful and ugly side. Hopefully, as time goes by we get more of the former and less of the latter.:)

Take care,

Princess  

Souri

You are just slapping words together. If I were to write a blog and tell everyone I have the solutions to world's biggest problems and pop out few quotes and youtube videos no one would say a word?

What misinformation?! This is about "information overload". Long live Bahaullah and Bahais. Is that good? What else do you want me to say?

FT

Yes, I thank the Bahai's for 1) being very tolerant and 2) informing us about their religion

1) "No one is asking our Bahai friends to inform us about their religion. THEY keep wanting to "inform" us..."

- Of course you do ! By posting accusation and false statement about their religion, people invite the Bahais to come in and give us the counter-part explanation, so to inform us !! Got it ?

2) "Not only that they keep saying Bahaullah HAD solutions for problems in 21st through 23rd century and beyond!..."

- This is a free world, a free land of God. Every single person has a right to believe in what/who they want as long as their belief does not HARM any other people ! Do they harm your belief ? Does their belief hurt you ? 

3) "There should be a limit to being self-centered, shouldn't it?..."

- Yes it should be a limit to this. Start by yourself. Aren't you too much self-centered ? Don't you think you did enough on that blog and got your answer each time. Now you come here to convince me about YOURSELF being right ?

I don't  believe in any religion, I don'tbelieve in any prophet being sent to us by a GOD.... I, myself have many questions about the Bahai's past deed, about Islam, about all other religion....

When I ask those questions, it's  only for my "information" not for "belittling" those faiths and their followers.

They are free to believe in what they think is good for them. Each person has his/her own perception of the world around them. 

Sorry Rosie/Roxy...could not follow....too cryptic for me!

This dicussion is all about observing the rules of the site and JJ's admission that it is not possible (read his comments).  Your comment re: flaggable is too cryptic for me to follow.  If there are no rules then there is nothing to flag.  Unless

I hope that these comments provide enough fodder for him to chew on and in the spirit of continuously improving this site, by raising its standards, he reconsiders his approach.

As for your other comments, sorry I did not follow it.

Alborz

Souri

"All Bahai friends : Thanks to all of you, for being tolerant and informing us a lot about your religion and your concern."

No one is asking our Bahai friends to inform us about their religion. THEY keep wanting to "inform" us. Not only that they keep saying Bahaullah HAD solutions for problems in 21st through 23rd century and beyond! There should be a limit to being self-centered, shouldn't it?

All I want our Bahai friends to do is to practice and preach their religion but don't be like they know it all and bombard us with quotes and youtube videos! Enough baba enough!

This was a positive thread....

I want to thank you all for this great informative and educational (in some way) thread. First I have to thank Javaneh for offering the opportunity to talk about this concern.

Princess : I thank you very much. I take your point, in your first reply to me and all others. You have a very good point and your analyze is acceptable.

Rosie : Thank you. Now we talk the talk ! You got me this time and I'm glad we agree in most of the things you'd said here to me and others.

JJ: Thank you for being tolerant. You respect and tolerate all of us. This is something you gave us as guide line and you are the first, on this topic. I agree with some of your points in your last two posts.

All Bahai friends : Thanks to all of you, for being tolerant and informing us a lot about your religion and your concern.

Daughter (sorry not hogging blog J just have thought SO much

about these issues...)

Alborz, daughter is NOT a public figure. Daughter is fdaughter. Fall s under category of topics listed as FLAGGABLE  in my last long post..."contains private information"..you are CLEARLY transgressing the ALREADY TENUOUS ENOUGH boundary between the public and the private on I'net which we as humans are only BEGINNING to cope with...using a little common sense on line of sand, is just...not...acceptable... not just to use avatar but also..

you can make all the fun you want about Moose Killer Palin's daughter, I did, I said her child was "born with a gun" in my newsfeed on her birth, you really can't do that with someone else's family....IMHO.

rosie/roxy

PS btw publisher and admin (foaad) have dual status here as management AND as bloggers/posters, equal rights must be respected, goes both ways. alborz, THE DAY YOU SUCCEED IN COMPLETELY CONFERRING A DIFFERENT STANDARD ON ADMIN HERE w/in community, we are REALLY in trouble.,,,isn't that part of the whole point???

Dear Princess...JJ is a public figure and by association...

... when he posts photos with his daughter, his daughter becomes a public figure also.  Just look around you and there are hundreds of examples.  Let me give you one example: Chelsea Clinton.  By the mere fact that she is the daughter of a former President, she is a public figure.   JJ's daughter is NOW is public figure and has been introduced to us on this website through many photos of her by JJ, a public figure.

If you read my earlier reply to you again, I did say that if Baha'is had posted Baha'u'llah's image or promoted Him and "promoted His public image", then your characterization of Him being a "public figure" would apply.  This however has never been the case.  So while I agree with your general statement, it does not apply to Baha'u'llah, for precisely the reasons I have offerred. You can choose to ignore them, but you cannot change them.

Once again, the example of JJ's daughter was given to see how JJ responds when a loved one is involved.  He has clearly found it painful enough not to and so the point is made.  When you say things that are an afront to human decency and is against this site's very policies, then a reaction to it is to be expected.  JJ's response is also telling of how he runs this site.  We learn more at each turn.

Since you also have dismissed the point about the User Agreement and Privacy Policy, which is the only objective means of having a discussion, I agree with you that there is no point to continuing.  This is after all not a discussion of personal views.  It is precisely because JJ is running the site based on his views and not the rules that we are having this discussion.  Had he not dumped the site's rules into the trash bin I am sure that this and many other discussions regarding similar cases would not have occured.  As they say, the rules are there, but there is no enforcement. 

Be well, and as always I appreciate your comments and views.

Alborz

PS. Baha'is express their views in terms of their beliefs and make reference to those beliefs when appropriate. This is a far cry from the kind of promotion that you keep referencing. This discussion is all about the rules and nothing else.

P S David, J

David, just saw your post, MUST say this:  I DID say J I have other problems with how site is run but NOT with evolution of moderation PROCESS itself concerning the deletions...and well...in Spanish we have a joke, "dictadura" means dictatoriship (like literature, confitura--jam, etc., -dura is a suffix like -ity). But "dura" also means HARD, like in "durable" in English.

So we have a joke, Hitler eg had a "dictadura" but Franco had a "dictablanda"--blanda meaning of course soft, bland. Something like dictatorship, dictatorrowboat (or maybe dictatordingy...) I might go for in English..

My problems don't have to do w/choices of deletions but w/other things I've already mentioned to j. elsewhere and I don't want to go into them here David at least not htis very second.

Viva la evolucion.

:o)

r.

Pls. excuse the length, here are replies to several people

Okay, Souri to begin with you because it summarizes my main points: I don't know why I misunderstood you, I apologize, U NO I LUV U. Here is what I think we agree on:  this site IN GENERAL does a very reasonable job of balancing free speech with civil discourse and is always evolving, we support the publisher in this, however we disagree with him that posts and blogs which are on the very parameters of civil discourse and are posted especially against ethnic groups  should be IGNORED. We feel that when possible they should be COUNTERED because they can be dangerous. We believe it is up to us to set an EXAMPLE of civil discourse and dialog on SERIOUS issues, that these values must be INTERNALIZED (not imposed and we are very happy when the publisher sets such an example. Did I get you this time, Souri?  :o)

_________________

When I said below in my first (long) post to j and j that offensive blogs should be allowed I also said there is always a CONTEXT in free speech. This website is a context. Here there are very clear GUIDELINES for what goes beyond the accepted parameters (of course to PINPOINT them is always an art, not a sciene and that is why moderation is such a delicate balance). The guidelines are SUGGESTED in j's blog "Consider Respect" but are most clearly delineated in the Flag as Offensive function under all posts on threads. What is prohibited:

--foul language, adult themes, racist and sexist language (includes ALL ethic groups.), contains personal information, other... (However TAHIRIH  to make fun of a religious leader or even a RELIGION itself is not the same as making fun of the PEOPLE who practice it...) Given these guidelines, And there is ALWAYS a fine fine line in the sand...moderation ART, not SCIENCE...PROCESS not a ROCK.

An example of a line in sand: When Mazloom and I would joke around on his "racey" blog threads  and use the f. word it was never deleted nor should it have been. If I say it HERE out it goes immediately as so it should. Okay you say this is obvious but..no..not to everyone, not to mothers concerned about their children reading this...and ALL THE FLAGGABLE (censore-worthy) topics have similar NUANCES...

I am SURE that in the year PLUS that an actual moderation SYSTEM has existed, there MUST  have been at LEAST ooooone blog that was deleted for being "over the top" given the MANY MANY posts that are deleted. Occasionally here people are almost tallking as though the site did not bend over backwards to find and uphold AS BEST AS POSSIBLE civil discourse..I see things so differently. I have other problems w/site-running but this ain't one of 'em.

___________________________

TAHIRIH, to J, are you SURE Bahaullah would not say EDUCATE the people who posted such a thing? The thing I learned MOST on this site from Bahai was NEVER GIVE UP trying to educate people who hold offensive views.   I have been successful many times with anti-Muslims, anti-Semites, anti-Bahai, anti-gay, etc. MANY times NO but what I learned from the Bahai is AT LEAST I CAN TALK THESE PEOPLE TO DEATH IF I STICK TO IT and then I at least "win" the blog and prove my point to OTHER readers who may be thinking these things..of course at times I DO ignore..

Actually Tahirih I learned MORE about Bahai from how they RESPONDED to attacks, than anything else. I became interested in them and learned that Bahaullah was a genius and one of the greatest men (women) of the 19th century ANYWHERE. As I have told you before.

J, Tahirih, Tahirih has a point that image can be more powerful than regular speech on a gut level.  However Tahirih we do have to live with it and yes basically you have two choices, ignore or educate. So...choose...

Finally Tahirih look how concerned we all are about your opinions and feelings. Doesn't that say more about the success of the mission of this site than one "stupid" blog (or ten?).

_________________________

JAVANEH THx again for the blog,. I think this post encapsulates most of my reply to you, and yes I was confused about the Covenant blog being just j's example.

Finally Jav and ALL just an aside when Javaneh and I first "met" here, we ALMOST had a REAL fight  because I interpreted that you Jav made apersonal attack on me and I said something juuuuuuuuust on the parameters of "civil discourse" and well, you discussed it and now here we are...and yes, Jav, I think this is DEFINITELY the best way to go...whether personal, ethnic, whatever, etc. 

:o)

Roxie/Roxane/Ticket

Either remove "ALL"

Either remove "ALL" articles, pictures, videos, comments....
which may cause: shame, disgust, anxiety, embaressment and...
or just let it go.

Unfortunayely "Decency" is lost to the world today. If you want to be decent you need to be decent on an INDIVIDUAL BASIS. If you want to be decent, Don't write anything which is improper, insulting, offensive, distasteful, foul ,embarrassing, gross....

If you want examples of what indecent material has been presented here you won't have to go far.
It is what 'you' are submitting, and it is in vogue by today's standards and this site's standards which follows the trend fully too.
So if you want all to be fair and square, don't wtite anything ANTI: Islam, Zionist/Jewish, Arab,
American and ...

Only you will know what you are doing but if you still don't like it... there is always the way out!
Actually no one has sent any one of us an in vitation here... but we keep coming back!

I am done with Hardambil !

There are many good things about this site and what Mr. Javid has done which are very much appreciated

but at the same time there are some VERY BASIC PRINCIPALS that are being ignored as Alborz rightfully observed which are run based on "gut feelings"

The issue with such PERSONAL way of dealing with things is that it is just another form of dictatorship however by a nice dicatator this time!

Historically we have been conditioned to it for so long that we don’t even sense it that we like the "agha bala sar" to decide for us than us having a set of rules that we can decide upon on our own .

As much as the JJ claims to be for freedom etc here, in fact he is the big dictator who decides how to define freedom, for whom, where , on what grounds and when !

Freedom is not a "man dar Avordi" phenomenon that can be offered "hardambil" ! .

Proper environment" that "protects" the RIGHTS of individuals is at the heart of freedom and it is ONLY THEN that the individuals can "freely" and "without fear of harassments" (official or individual kind) can comfortably express themselves.

This so called "nothing is sacred" policy as good it it sounds has been actually used in iranian.com by management to be defined as "nothing is sacred including your individuals rights "

The terms of use is important to provide the necessary boundaries for everyone to exercise freedom, other than that it is a moderated chaos or at best a " man dar avordi gut feeling moderation of freedom" !

Issues such as :

- Whatever goes as long as JJ feels is OK
- Nothing goes unless  JJ says so
- Terms of service is just there , never mind it
- Some can register, some don't have to because they do not feel to be held accountable to even a simple screen name !
-  Some can play multiple faces and some have to deal with it
- some can get away and some don't get away with harassments 
-Favoristism and special previliges

- If you are a yes man or not  

No ! This is not freedom , this is a typical Irooni man dar avordi system that decides as "we" go along by "one person"

BUT yes this is a business and the owner of business within the boundaries of law has the right to do as he wishes and we have the right to like it, or not like it , contribute or not and finally accept it or not, click on iranian.com or not.

It has been coming for a while ...and it has been few days since I have decided to no longer be part of THIS anymore.

Not that neceassrily matter but just FYI : I will only "occasionally" post something in my own duplicated blog here ,only because of my commitment to some bigger goals, but beyond that I will no longer comment and even on my own blog will only comment and communicate with those who "take responsibility" to AT LEAST post under a registered screen name.

No I am not sking this place to be run MY way  but by a set of common principals known to all of us and based on equal rights

... therefor I am excercising my right to move to other places where common and proven civilized norms and rules apply .... and not hardambil 
Best in 2009 :-)

oh...

and one last thing before I leave, JJ's daughter is off, because while in the public domain, she is NOT a public figure. Public figures ACTIVELY promote their public image and use that image for their own agenda, whatever that may be. I may be wrong, but I don't see JJ's daughter doing that.

Ok, now I REALLY have to go. :)

Dear Alborz,

While I appreciate you bringing up the User Agreement and User Policy paragraph of this site, the topic of this blog is freedom of speech.

So at this point we might just have to agree to disagree on whether insulting or ridiculing someone who is a public figure, is enough grounds to curtail a person's freedom of expression.

I think I have said what I wanted to say about this, so let's just leave it at that. I have to get to work now.

Best,

Princess 

Princess...JJs daughter analogy is spot on...

...and please don't get off the subject.  While you make many remarks which I can agree with, JJ's daughter is used as an example to convey a person of affinity to him and his family.  He has chosen to put her on this site and she is now fair play for discussion and illustration of a point.  The point is that of being able to "relate".   This relationship can be to a person or to an idea.  I still question whether even JJ's daughter is someone that he will relate to, as he did not answer any of the posed questions.  I will assume that it must have been painful but the fact that he would rely on civil laws vs. the very laws of this site, says a lot about the way he runs this site.  His "gut feel" is the only compass at play, and hence the many debates on his wavering and inconsistencies in the regulation of the content.

Had Baha'is used the photo of Baha'u'llah on this site or any other site for that matter, the photo would also be fair play. But Baha'is don't even possess a photo of Baha'u'llah simply out of respect.  The person that posted His altered photo has done so to defame, insult and incite all covered under the now defunct User Agreement and Privacy Policy.  The alteration alone supports this intent.  Read JJ's response and you will see how readily he has dismissed the User Agreement and User Policy as unenforceable since it would lead to the elimination of half of the entries.

Does this remind you of what the root cause of much of our economic woes have been?  Let me give you a hint...ethics.

This is a choice JJ has made. He states that he would lose half his entries if he were to enforce the terms of the User Agreement.  No doubt a decrease in revenue for JJ.   So the creation of anguish is a source of revenue for JJ.  He simply has to claim his User Agreement is unenforceable !

It all goes back to greed and how it can flush one's principles down the proverbial toilet.  But no worries, we are all being enlightened here through someone else's choices.

Alborz

Dear Princess..

Dear Princess..

You are right, not everybody is decent!

JJ, your daughter is public and your policy private !

Amazing logic JJ !!   Just absolutely amazing !!!

In conclusion, you seek to protect your daughter from such defamantion on this site not by invoking, the now defunct User Agreement and Privacy Policy,  but relying on the civil laws of this land.  Fantastic.  Just fantastic.  Do you realize how utterly bankrupt your approach to these matters are?

The "beautiful, broad, and virtually unlimited right of expression" that you reference is a fiction of your imagination when it comes to the very subject of this discussion.   I suggest that you seek counsel from your lawyers as ignoring and violating the very User Agreement and Privacy Policy that you have paid them to create will bite sooner than you think.  As I said you are not qualified to make these determinations and your "gut feel" will get you into trouble.

I hope that you now have enough to ponder.

Alborz

Dear Faryam,

You are right, not everybody is decent!

Human Decency knows no Public or Private.

Basic Human Decency and Mutual Respect

knows NO Public or Private; Dead or Alive. 

Faryarm 

Dear Alborz,

When it comes to beliefs, ideology and faith, yes, everything is and should be questioned. Ideally, we all want it to be done in a civilized and respectful manner, but guess what, the world is not ideal, there are always going to be people who will be rude and offensive.

In my humble opinion, as a very traditional society and culture we have suffered more from the suppression of our personal opinions and views than from expressing them.

Maturing to the level where we conduct civilized debates is a learning process and this is the forum for us to practice that. But to get there, all we can do is work on ourselves and set an example by our own conduct, rather than forcing our ways on other people. We Iranians have done that for centuries and look where it's got us. Even in cases with the best intentions it backfires. The minority educated elite thought they could force their noble ideas on the traditional majority with complete disregard for the time it takes to change a mindset. And what did we end up with? An Islamic Republic. Suppressing other people views, however offensive they might be, certainly does not produced a civilized society. I might LOOK civilized, but it would be just the image rather than the essence that's changed.

And finally, with JJ's permission, if I may, the analogy you are drawing between photo's of his family members and the Avatar is not correct. JJ's family members, or at least the ones you were referring to, are NOT public figures but Baha'ullah is. When it comes to freedom of speech, every thing in the PUBLIC DOMAIN is game. There is a big difference there.

My daughter & The Prophet

Alborz, as far as I know, my daughter is not the prophet of any religion. You cannot take a picture of my daughter or your own daughter or your neighbor or your boss... and use it as your avatar (in a funny way or not). It's against the law.

What we are discussing here are public figures, including politicians, prophets, celebrities, judges, clerics... The country you live in protects the right to express anything you want about public persons -- dead or alive. No one can arrest you or harm you or stop you.

I hope we all start appreciating this beautiful, broad and virtually unlimited right of expression because it gives EVERYONE equal access, it allows unpopular ideas to emerge, it allows the spread of views that unsettle the status quo and bring about change, it allows the people to challenge those in power. It allows new religions to start and flourish without fear. And yes, it also allows insults and non-sense be expressed about public figures. Not a big deal, as long as there's equal opportunity.

As for iranian.com's User Agreement and Privacy Policy, you got me there. That's the kind of wording you get when a lawyer is on your board! I better start complying to the agreement and delete at least half the content on the site :o)

Princess...Equal opportunity degradation for all !

This is essentially what you are advocating.  How about equal respect for all?  Alas, the latter is a more difficult standard to uphold.  After all it is easier to slide down hill than it is to climb up

Read the User Agreement and Privacy Policy of this site which includes:

"You may not post Content that degrades others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual preference, disability or other classification.  Epithets, slurs, canards and other language intended to intimidate or to incite violence will not be tolerated. "

JJ believes that he is qualified to make these determinations. 

Alborz

Dear Javaneh,

We are all throwing words around here. What exactly is discrimination? It is essentially about power, isn't it? It's about someone or a group with power curtailing the rights of another person or group. Wouldn't you agree?

So what exactly is discriminatory about the Avatar or the blog? Yes, it's distasteful, and probably insulting, but not discriminatory. Where does this blogger exercise power over anybody here?

Discrimination WOULD be breaking the law and it would be discrimination if this website published ONLY anti baha-ee blogs, but that's not the case, is it? What is happening in Iran to minority groups and women, etc, is discrimination, not using a manipulated photo as one's avatar.

Why can't you see, that the complaint about this particular blog and the avatar is really like "all animals are equal, but some animals are MORE equal than others?" Other people have already mentioned how the sanctity of other religions, their images and symbols have been challenged numerously on this site. This is just another one. 

"Give me a chance to fling my stone in His face!"

//iranian.com/main/blog/faryarm/give-me-c...

Injustice vs Insult

Tahirih, if you agree that Bahaullah would not bother confronting idiots who make fun of him, then shouldn't you follow his example? Isn't that the whole point of believing in a religion?

There's a difference between injustice and insult. No one expects you or any oppressed people to "chill" and ignore the denial of basic rights, destruction of property, imprisonment or murder.

Insults and lies -- as hurtful to feelings as they may be -- are nowhere near the same category as physical violence or institutional and systematic injustice. You've heard it a million times: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

More than 90 percent of those who visit iranian.com live in Western countries where insulting religions and religious figures is not a crime but a protected right -- the same fundamental right that allows Bahais and other religious and non-religious individuals to think and believe freely. Cherish it!

Dear JJ, what if your daughter's photo...

....was defaced and used as an avatar?

As abhorrent as this act would be to any person that visits your site, the logic and arguments that you have used so far, leaves me no alternative to think that you would allow its useage and simply "chill", under the many banners that you employ to legitimize and allow such a despicable act. 

I wonder how your daughter would feel about your response. Would she think any more or perhaps any less of you? How would those that also love your daughter expect you deal with this matter?  How would you justify and explain your decision to allow it?  Would their feelings in this regard weigh on you?

These questions are intended to increase your likelihood of being able to relate to the objections being raised here.  Perhaps this too will fail....

Your User Agreement and Privacy policy states:

"You may not post Content that degrades others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual preference, disability or other classification.  Epithets, slurs, canards and other language intended to intimidate or to incite violence will not be tolerated. "

It appears that under this policy you are the arbiter of what "degrades others" or is considered as "language intended to intimidate".  JJ, this is a lofty position, for which you have no training, education or any other preparation for, and one that perhaps you will only act on when you fear a legal reprecussion.  None of your statements seem to support any other conclusion.

Well, in this instance you will not face any reprecussion of the sort that you fear and would compel you to act.  However, the visitors of this site are gaining a better appreciation of who you are and by what principles you operate this site.  It is precisely at these times that you are being tested and evaluated by the site visitors and readership as a human being with principles and not just the owner of a website. 

I look forward to your response to my initial questions, as it will convey your judgement to those that trust it and those that question it.

Alborz

Mr Javid you are right!

Bahaullah would have done the " C", but I am not Bahaullah and never will be as great as he is. You are asking us to behave like the manifestation of God?

I have to say that , I was just thinking about what you said, this evening, and I can see your point, but I love him too much and may be because of my selfishness I can not let go of this issue.

What you are saying has happened all through the history of our young faith, we did chill out!! and did let go, but this time I am mad because this action is result of a sick mind wanting to get attention rather than prejudice!! What am I saying, prejudice is sick too!but it is result of ignorance and could be changed.

The choice of name,  having enough information , and twisting it , is a sign of a psychopath, which this " covenant" is.

Tahirih

New Standard of Moderation is not Censorship...

New Standard of Moderation is not Censorship...

What is wrong with the kind of moderation that is a balance between allowing "latitudes of individual freedom and the promotion of the collective good."?

We can have a civilized exchange without intentionally trying to demean, insult, ridicule,each other's ideas and beliefs. either in words or use of offensive images.

"covenant's" blogs are a perfect example, first by defacing the face of revered person such as Baha'u'llah , then posting a higly offensive distorted blog showing African slaves that tries to show as if Abdul Baha was a Racist.

Fortunately, the responses quickly showed his hidden agenda and his tactics; of rearranging sentences and quoting out of context.

Iranian.com has become a great site, because of the kind of forward looking and relevant  content that tries to address relevenat issues of the day...

Otherwise it is just another "empty" forum full of hot air and Drivle.

Faryarm