Jahanshah Javid

Isn't this Islam??? Aren't these clergies muslim??

No, they are Iranian! This is not Islam, this is Politics.

 Iran in 2010: You must

... you reject Velayate Faghih's absolute authority. Monafeghin should be killed.

Hojjatoleslam Seyyed Mahmoud Nabavian:

//iranian.com/main/2010/jan/you-must-be-executed-if

Mohiyeddin Haeri Shirazi

Kill protesters and things will calm down, he says on naitonal TV.

//iranian.com/main/2009/dec/mohiyeddin-haeri-shirazi
 

This is 2010. This is Iran. This is Us. We have become more stupid.

Isn't this Islam??? Aren't these clergies muslim?? 

I am all for freedom of speech but....

I also believe in respecting others religious views.

I am not a Catholic. However, I know fully well that being derogatory in anyway of the Pope is highly offensive  to Catholics.

I know that if I draw, write, etc about the Pope badly there will be serious negative consequences which would start with my Catholic relatives.........

Yes, even within Christianism there is fanatics that would kill a person or try to destroy their way of life for being derogatory  about the Pope.

How many times have our parents told us to think before we talk and act because there are consequences.

George Orwell:

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

I've got earplugs.

How about insisting on limits of violence for a change?

Bahram G, you keep insisting on illegal speech. There's no dispute over speech that can land you into jail. That we agree on.

What Muslims, including Iranians, fail to appreciate and recognize is that violence is never ever an acceptable response to offensive speech.

Specifically, we fail to defend this Danish cartoonist (or Salman Rushdie, or the Dutch director murdered by an Islamist) and somehow we believe that the attack on his life is a natural response and therefore acceptable.

It's very sad that we go out of our way to point out the obvious limits on free speech, but we will not categorically and emphatically condemn violence as a response to insulting speech.

And as long as Muslims (and secular Iranians) do not see the difference, this criminal behavior will continue and Muslims will be seen as followers of a faith that have zero tolerance towards those who offend them.

jj, yes we condemn but can we also say cartoonist expected it

no one should feel threatened by what they believe in.  and truth be told, most people try to live and make a living.  they make a living out of their talent and profession.

this cartoonist, his job is to be a cartoonist.  an abortion doctor in nebraska same, he makes and feeds his family with his living.  truly no one expects them to reorganize their lives midway...

however, this cartoonist did his cartoons at the worst time possible.  he KNEW of the repurcussions.  Unlike salman rushdie who was totally surprised when the fatwa was issued.

this cartoonist fully knew what he got himself into.  this is true especially after the death of the granson of van goh in netherlands by a morrocan immigrant.

so if he KNEW what he was getting himself into, does he have the right to cry wolf when it gets tough?

He made a consciouncious decision, he thought I will get great fame albiet with personal risk to my life.  But he rationalized, I will be protected by the secret service and have body guards too....

There are many in the world, if given the choice who would jump at the chance to be famous and be protected by bodyguards...no shortage of that in Hollywood...

So while in practice the act of the somali should be condemned, however, the motives behind the cartoonist should also be looked upon with suspicion.

Illegal vs Insulting

JJ, you are a journalist and by trade you greatly value the maximum latitude for the freedom of expression. I am with you 100%. Yet, as you well know, there is a difference between doing something illegal or saying or doing something insulting. Illegals are illegals. Period. Insults, on the other hand, fall in a gray area and they often reflect the insulter's insensitivity if not crudeness.

Obeying the law is not an option. Being or not being insulting is. All I am saying is that we certainly should feel free to exercise maximum candor in speaking our mind and criticizing. Without the freedom to point out the wrong and the fault and the outmoded ... the human society stagnates and can hardly be worth its salt.

By the same token, insulting, in my view, is really never critical to making a point and may represent the insulter's impoverished case or subnormal mental prowesses. If you can do it and say it without breaking the law or hurting some-one's person or feeling, all the better.

Bahram G

Free pass to murder

Bahram G, no country, no society, even the most democratic allows unlimited freedom of expression.

But critical as well as insulting speech is protected under the laws of most democratic societies as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The issue here is not ALL forms of speech -- some of which can bring prosecution under the law. We are not talking about "shouting fire in a theater" or making false accusations against an individual.

Yes not all speech is legal. But democratic societies have set up laws so that if someone is wrongly accused can go to court and demand justice.

But when Muslim extremists and others talk about limits on free speech and refuse to condemn murder and violence, they are in fact giving their approval to murder and violence.

NOTHING is worse than murder and violence. NOTHING can justify murder and violence. NO INSULT is higher than murder and violence. Offensive, insulting speech is NEVER equal to or worse than murder and violence. Period.

......

 I agree with what Bahram G wrote! Thank you!

Yes,  we have freedom, but we should not abuse it!

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"

I think....

Although violence and murder in any shape, are always condemned, still I think we should not limit this action of pure fanaticism, to Islam and its instruction.

You said:

"Islam is widely perceived by the rest of the world as a religion that condones or even incites violence whenever one of its "sacred" tenants or icons is ridiculed, or even questioned. "

Yes true, but this comes from the fact that the international politics, want it to be so and the media propagate it in this way.

The root of all this violence is FANATICISM, not Islam. Fanaticism in any and all social doctrine and idea, lead to extreme violence toward any opposition.

Remember what the catholic was doing during the Inquisition? Okay, you will say that was centureis ago, and now human rights went trough much progress and we should not compare today's circumstances with the one of centuries ago.

Yes, true again, but you must consider the fact that Human rights which is so much cherished valued in the West, is not respected and not even really understood in the countries of the Middle East and those that we call the Third world. The West deliberately left those countries in backwardness, to pull the maximum advantages of that. Something that was called "Colonization" , remember that word?

So a nation which has been kept out of information and instruction, can not act up on Western human rights's measure. Then don't blame them for acting out of their own knowledge and instruction. This has nothing to do with the religious instruction, but mostly the social intellect.

Also, think about the fascist of only 70 years ago. Think about the fascist of today who put bombs in every corner of the world, specially in the US.

Those who put fire in the gay clubs, are mostly the fanatic catholics, not Muslims.

Those who put fire in the mosques, are not Muslim, they are the fanatic catholic.

Then why it is only Islam who got this bad reputation? Because nowadays, Islam is the only religion which is world wildly attacked and  criticized. Then each action of "defense" from a fanatic Muslim is world widely shown and discussed in a very amplified way.

I don't buy the idea that Islam is a religion of violence by itself. Although the way it has been imposed on the world, at its beginning was violent (I agree) but that was because of the character of the Arab nation which were more for the war and atrocity at that time.

I think the root of those kind of  violence is the Fanaticism. Of course we find Fanaticism, mostly in the religions, but it exists also in the question of the Race and also Politics.

Freedom is not a free pass

Freedom of expression is most precious. Yet, it is not and should never be a free pass for anyone to abuse it by insulting the sanctity of others. Yes, without freedom of expression we have the suffocating mess of the IRI and many other totalitarian states. Hence, the answer is to use our freedom with absolute candor to portray things as we see them, yet do our best not to insult others.

One may not use his freedom of expression to yell "fire" in a packed movie theatre, as the old saw goes. Not even in the most liberal society expressions of this sort are not only not allowed, they are punishable by law, as they should be.

In civilized human societies there must be boundaries that we all must respect if we cherish our civility and the freedom that goes with it.

It is indeed criminal for an individual to aim to kill another for a cartoon depicting Muhammad. If the cartoonist had violated the law, then it is up to the legal system to meet out his punishment. Akhoonds and Imams are not the law and these individuals are criminals themselves when they arouse their followers to commit mayhem and murder.

JJ, you are absolutely right. The Islamic High Priests who are often too happy to issue violent fatwa must strongly speak against the horrific acts of their fanatic followers. Strapping an explosive vest and triggering it in a marketplace full of men, women, and children is something that is beyond the heinous. To out-do that is when one Muslim bomber explodes himself in a mosque of other Muslims or in a funeral procession.

I can't figure out Islam and what the Islamic high priest are doing to their people and the world in general. If anyone can figure it out, please tell me.

The life that the Creator gives, no one should extinguish!

Bahram G

or may be he was doing as he is told:

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29 

  Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9 -

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4 

As I mentioned a long time ago

When acts of viloence such as this reach the News, it will only help the right wing factions to pour Islamophobic fuel over an existing fire and burn us all Muslim or non-Muslim!

I am not a Muslim but if there was a petition to condemn such acts of violence I would sign it. I'm really pleased that they caught the guy before he could do any damage.

If I recall, when fatwa against Salman Rushdie came out, one group that stood by him was the league of Iranian writers, he certainly had a lot of support from the London Iranian community.

JJ by the way I will soon be contacting you with a proposal for a new Humanitarian/political group on the backbone of IC. I've mentioned this already in my new NIAC blog, but since you brought this Blog up, it is a good opportunity to mention it.