JahanKhalili
About myself:
I'm half Iranian and half American. I'm here to say what I think. If you came here to be pleased or flattered, you're in the wrong place. No one owns me. I'm a free individual. I don't bow to anyone's politics, here or in Iran. I'm my own person, and that's too bad if anyone doesn't like it. When people read my stuff, they'll get MY opinion. I alone am responsible for my opinion - no one else is. Likewise, I'm not responsible for your opinion, or your assumptions about me. You are.به زبان فارسی
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Who Made Saddam Into The Monster That He Became?
27-Sep-2011
We've explored how he was armed and supported by various arms dealers and by some of the same Western governments who later were posturing about human rights abuses by Saddam.
We've explored how the gulf Arabs supported him, and how the UN consistently ignored his use of chemical weapons and starting the Iran-Iraq war.
Now let's examine what sort of mentality produced him.
We've visited how the West armed him.
We've discussed how the governments and businessmen of various countries supported him and enabled him to survive, so he could inflict greater harm than he would have if they hadn't done it.
The UN ignored it when he started the Iran-Iraq war. They also didn't do much about his use of chemical weapons. Nore did the US government seem to mind, while it had people in the DOD over in Iraq assisting Saddam against Iran at that time.
That perhaps isn't such common knowledge among the Iranian public, but there has been open discussion about it. The discussion is ongoing, and we'll see where it goes. In fact, much of that discussion was helped by Westerners themselves who had the courage to admit that they contributed to the making of a monster.
Now let's explore how Middle Eastern culture might have contributed to the monster that Saddam became.
Of primary importance in the Middle East - whether we're discussing Arabs, or Iranians - is family reputation: they are all about their family honor, and their family background.
.... and whether we're discussing Muslims or Christians... they have pretty much the same basic attitude. Its all about how great their parents or children or relatives are supposed to be.
That's the whole center of their lives.
They are obsessed with bragging about their ancestor or famous relative, or their kids or who they are related to.
If you spend enough time with any Middle Easterner, you'll probably eventually be told about what a great family they come from, or how important their relatives were or are, how big and important their job is, etc.
Reputation is very important in the Middle East. Whether we're talking about Iran or Iraq, pretty much the same mentality holds sway in both countries:
If your relative is a great person, you're honored.
BUT... if your relative is disgraced, SO ARE YOU!
The ridiculousness or unfairness of this doesn't seem to strike anyone. Its what they're used to. Like a pig lying in its own filth, Iranians and Arabs both luxuriate in a sense of superiority based on who they're related to, or feel inferior for the same reason.
The self-determinism and freedom to be who you are - or who you want to be - based on yourself is virtually absent.
If an Iranian or Arab wants to insult someone, they inevitably talk about the target's family member: i.e. their sister, father, mother, wife, aunt, etc.
They'll try to dishonor your family, or elevate themselves in some petty "mine is better than yours" contest over who comes from the bigger or better family.
Frankly, I don't give a sh-t about who I'm related to. I know that far enough back, ALL of our ancestors defecated in the wilderness and had intestinal worms, and were hunted by carnivores.
The pretense that anyone walking around today is great or small because of who they're related to is funny, because every snob or beggar had the same cavemen for ancestors.
I'm not flattered by people wanting to associate with me because of which important person I'm related to; I'm disgusted by it.
Not only is this attitude disgusting to me, it can be quite harmful.
According to what I've read (and anyone out there who knows better, please feel free to correct me), Saddam Hussein was born out of wedlock.
That's right, he was a bastard.
Being born in any Middle Eastern country and being a bastard is really a curse for reasons I've already explained. There is almost no way such a child can grow up to be a normal person. They will not have ANYONE's respect.
Saddam was reportedly taunted and teased for the fact that he was born out of wedlock. In other words, the society around him tormented him for something that was not his fault.
I'm not defending Saddam here, or trying to justify anything he did. But its important to understand things.
Saddam was born and raised in a Middle Eastern country. He is the product of that culture.
What effect do you think that the teasing and taunting had on the small boy, Saddam?
Imagine that you are a child, born into the world without knowing or understanding it - and you are blamed for what your parents did.
In other words, you are being blamed for something you cannot even yet understand.
Of course, anyone who isn't an idiot can see what effect this probably had on Saddam. What did he grow up to be like?
He killed anyone who didn't like him. He forced people to put on shows of affection for him. He put statues of himself everywhere. He obsessed over his stature in the Arab world. He probably made up false stories to cover up the shame of his origins. And he started a war that killed off so many innocent people.
The society that made him into what he became in some ways ended up on the receiving end of all of the abuse it had dished out to him.
There's an old Iranian saying, that goes:
از ماست که بر ماست
Literally, "It is from us, that is upon us", or loosely "what we have reaped is what we sowed".
In the West, they have a different saying.
"Every nation gets the government it deserves"
- Joseph de Maistre
A logical outcome of all of these Middle Eastern heirarchies of miniature make-believe dynasties and fake pretentious royalties - where people are respected or not based on who their father or mother is - is something like Saddam.
Whenever I deal with Iranians and listen to them brag about their relatives, or try to make their family look really big and important, and try to elevate themselves by elevating the make-believe importance of their family or relatives, I remember Saddam...
Whenever I hear them putting down someone else over who they're related to, or trying to diminish the other person's self-respect by pointing to their relative or insulting them, I remember Saddam..
...and various other examples of people who were undeservedly scorned or rejected, and who came back to haunt the society that produced them...
... and I am more glad than ever that my mother is American and I don't have to care about this sh-t or deal with it.
Who made Saddam into the monster he became? Middle Easterners did. Their culture did.
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Yes Siavash
by JahanKhalili on Sat Oct 08, 2011 08:16 PM PDTI value your contributions.
I don't think that Islam necessarily contains the explanation for these things, though.
The system of honor is indeed important, but this also exists among Middle Eastrners who aren't Muslim.
For example, I've read about cases where Armenians or Palestinian Christians killed a female relative to save the family honor.
There is nothing in Christianity that tells them to do this, as far as I know.
So there is something else going on. There is a culture in the Middle East that influences people's thinking.
Its probably a very ancient culture.
A Hypothetical Example of Taqiyya
by JahanKhalili on Sat Oct 08, 2011 08:12 PM PDTA Sunni Caliph who has been busy killing Shi'ites to eradicate them, has soldiers going door to door, asking each household if they are Shi'ite.
"No, I'm not", says a Shi'ite.
The Shi'ite lied, but God forgives him/her. Nevertheless, there is no reward for having done it.
Another Shi'ite says: "Yes, I am", and is killed.
Her or his reward is greater than the first person, because he or she died for the sake of upholding their faith.
Martydom is another believe system
by Siavash300 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 08:09 PM PDT"Martyrdom and being ready to die for what one believes in is far more valued and encouraged by Shi'ite Islam than some obscure loophole like Taqqiya" JahanKhalili
Yes, but the subject of blog is why people from middle east act in a way which is totally different with westerner thinking. where the problems come from. whose fault is some one like saddam comes to power. Why these 2 kinds of thinking are this much different.
I am trying to detect the root of this issue in my comments as short as possible.
Taqiyya according to Encyclopedia
by Siavash300 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 08:03 PM PDTTaqiyya (alternate spellings taqiya, taqiyah, tuqyah), meaning religious dissimulation,[1] is a practice emphasized in Shi'a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion.[2] This means a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are under those risks.[3]
Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites who were usually in minority and under pressure. In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby.[1]
The majority Sunni Muslims rarely found it necessary to hide their beliefs. However, there are examples of practicing Taqiyya among Sunnis where it was necessary.[4] In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory".
The Propaganda About "Taqqiya" Is a Bit Overblown
by JahanKhalili on Sat Oct 08, 2011 08:01 PM PDTMartyrdom and being ready to die for what one believes in is far more valued and encouraged by Shi'ite Islam than some obscure loophole like Taqqiya - which is really just a sort of special circumstance allowance or permission, but is not officially encouraged or held up as some kind of example of how to act.
But on the Other Hand
by JahanKhalili on Sat Oct 08, 2011 07:56 PM PDTSome of the worst types of liars I've ever met were in fact people who kept up a religious appearance in order to deceive others.
... and who used their supposed holiness to gain some advantage over others - i.e. used Islam as a means to get what they wanted.
A Word About "Taqiyya"
by JahanKhalili on Sat Oct 08, 2011 07:53 PM PDTAs far as I remember, it was simply a permission to lie about whether one is Shi'ite or not, during the inquisitions against them that were conducted by Sunnis.
It isn't meant as a permission to lie for any other reason except to save ones life when one is being persecuted because of being Shi'ite.
Most of the really serious religious people I knew in Iran - and I mean those who REALLY applied the rules to themselves and were hard on themselves instead of on others - were in fact very sincere people.
Shi' ism versus Protestantism
by Siavash300 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 07:54 PM PDTBelieve system is another important factor that impact people social behavior.This factor is as important as "child rearing" that I mentioned in my previous comment. For example, Japanese commit suicide to preserve their "honour". Movie "last samurai" is good illustration of dominant believe system of Japanes thinking which somtimes leads to mass suicide to preserve society honour. That has been accepted as a social norm. Believe system mandate people how to behave in certain situation. Principle of Taqiyya belong to shia and sunni don't practice that. Sunni don't believe in Taqiyya, but shia believe it. In simple language it means "lying". It is acceptable in shia. Iran 93% of population belong to shai sect. Shia is also spread throughout Iraq. This factor can easily explains what is really going on in these 2 countries. "Taqiyya" was shown in the American movie by the name of "not without my daughter" Where the American woman complains to her Iranian father in law that Dr. Mohamoodi (her iranian husband) promised her to return to america after visiting his family in Iran and now he is changing his mind. The father in law responded to her his son committed "Taqiyya" means acceptable lying.
Westerners believe system is inspired of Protetantism instructions. Basic believe system is working hard and spending less that accomulate the capital and it is the essence of Capitalism. (Great American dream).
Believe system can be transfered from one generation to the next generation. That notion has been conceptualized in Swiss pioneer Karl Gustav Young as a "collective unconscious".
Siavash
simple ?
by maziar 58 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 08:59 PM PDTfor a second rewind that picture LIVE on CNN ,the brute saddam ,the gallow, the thick rope ,and within second ..........caput.
I know he was a mean person but why the whole world had to witness that?
But osama's sinking in the ocean was too gory!
Maziar
That's Why So Many of You Are Forced To Carry On the Pretense
by JahanKhalili on Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:31 PM PDT... that there is something wrong with old JK here.
He must be crazy!
There must be something wrong with him!
The alternative is to accept that there is truth to what that despicable JK is writing, but we'd better not go there - oh, no!
Yes, Of Course Americans Lie
by JahanKhalili on Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:28 PM PDTBut that is also open to discussion in America. Americans themselves discuss this phenomenon without getting defensive.
In Iranian culture, certain things AREN'T open to discussion.
Quite often, Iranians are actually horrified if someone tells the truth!
They're like: You shouldn't have said that, dude! That was wrong, dude!
They not only see nothing wrong with hiding the truth, they seem to often see something wrong with telling it!
Siavash Khan
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:56 AM PDTRegarding lies. Have you been keeping up with politic anywhere? Lying is standard practice. Have ever seen an advertisement on TV? It is 100% lies.
I give you examples:
JahanKhalili unique personality
by Siavash300 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:37 AM PDTIn Iran, when the father tell to his child once the creditor shows up at door step tell him daddy is not home, he is sending 2 signals to the child's mind:
A. It is okay to tell the lie
B. you can get away from unpleasant situation by blaming other.
"it is not my daddy's fault that he owes you money,it is your fault that you came at the wrong time".
The father afraid of confrontation with the creditor and the creditor may make a scene in the front of his house and the neighbores. We call it "Aberoo ReeZee).
In western world, the creditor make a phone call prior to his trip to the person's house. If the debtor is not capable to pay this debt, the creditor can write it off as "loss" on his tax retrun or report the guy to the credit reporting agency.
Obviously 2 set of minds operating under 2 different systems.
JahanKhalili has a luxury to view the whole world from 2 different angles. The fact is that he is bi-cultural and is capable to make a "mental Journey" from "western world" to the "developing country" and visa versa. He is able to see the whole wold from 2 different sides and pick the best of the 2 worlds. No Iranians and No westerners have such a capability. He could be good asset for Iranian people in future Iran.
The manner of JahanKhalili's speech appears "Callous" toward Iranians and Iranian culture at times. That could be contributes to his patent resentement and anger toward his Iranian father. The way he treated his American mother. At times, JahanKhalili was acting on impulses that was originated from mistreatment of his mother by Iranian father. Seems he views his motherr as a "sole" responsible person to raise him. "Single mother" with all responsiblity on her shoulder. On the other hand, the Iranian father, who was not responsible enough when he was growing up, was a man with dominate personality (most likely culture clash). He built resentment in JahanKhalili's heart over the years.
Siavash
No, Westerners Aren't That Nationalistic
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 06:44 PM PDTThings like the BNP and Stormfront are atypical curiosities - and perhaps it is the West's undoing that they cannot even form a collectively loyal nationalism on behalf of their own people.
I'll show you any number of white people around me who are all too happy to participate in the insulting of their race - which is unfortunate.
Nevertheless, respect for the truth requires an ability to criticize.
Many Iranians unfortunately show this capability only towards others, but for whatever reason cannot stand it when the tables are turned on them.
Middle Eastern?
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 01:35 PM PDTI quote from Dr Who "A man is the sum of his memories". The same goes for a nation. Dude you live in Britain right? Don't the British pride themselves in their history. Their heritage; and so on?
In America they work really hard to make a national heritage. We build monuments and so on. The problem is we don't have much. Iran and Britain have their history. America is working to build one.
Here is another. "Tolkien wanted to write (translate) a mythology for England,". The whole Lord of the Rings was one man's way to make a very British mythology.
By your arguments then all these people must have Middle Eastern mentality. Well that implies {rightly} that European mentality is based on Indo-Iranian. Glad you finally are getting where things are coming from. All you are in Europe is based on Indo-Iranian thinking. Now go tell that to the dudes in BNP. Have them pull their heads out of their ***. At least some on Stormfront here do understand this.
One point I agree with. You are something without national heritage. You are one without a nation without a culture and without roots. But nevertheless you are a human being and that is something by itself.
Yes you are a free person; go ahead and choose. You actions show you have chosen Iran. Or you would not be here now: I welcome you to your half.
I Completely Disagree With the Middle Eastern Mentality
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 01:04 PM PDTFor example, Cost-of-Progress says:
"I know you people don't care about national heritage and identity, but you should - as in without it, you're nothing."
I completely disagree with this stuff.
I'm a free person. I can choose.
If there is some crap in Iranian culture that I disagree with, I reject it.
Dude no worship
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:53 PM PDTYou are confused I don't worship Pahlavi I prefer them to IRI. Or a new Libyan style Islamic democracy. Do you understand the difference?
Worship is a mindless acceptance of anything someone does or says. To hold them infallible and beyond reproach.
To prefer is to say I rather have this one. I voted for Obama not because I worshiped him. Far being from that I don't even like him much. But I figured he is better than Mc Palin. Regarding respect the feeling is mutual :-) But given a choice of you or some of the other on IC I figure you are probably more interesting. I agree with SK that at least you are genuine. Now I may be wrong but at least your hate is real! Not some fake BS like some on other blogs. Besides your insults are more direct and to the point.
I Don't Have Much Respect For That, Either
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:29 PM PDTPahlavi worship is ridiculous, too.
But then again, I'm half American.
I should feel lucky about that, I guess.
The only King
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:42 AM PDTI want is Reza Pahlavi!
MLK Worship is Akin to Saddam Worship or Ayatollah Worship
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:18 AM PDTMiddle Easterners excel at this stuff.
They respond to the fear of punishment very well.
There are all sorts of political - and material - consequences involved if you don't publicly bow down and worship these figures in the societies that created them.
King Is Just a Political Tool At This Point
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 AM PDT... for people to advance some agenda.
People obviously blow him up really big and inflate him for political reasons, one of which is that he was black, and they need to prove to everyone how politically correct and pro-black they are by flattering him.
(The same people are often silent about Malcolm X, because honoring him doesn't fit into their politics).
I've encountered very few discussions in the public arena that have any real material about his life history or his personal behavior - which is odd, if you consider that we are supposed to be looking at him as some kind of example to follow.
But I'm not surprised to see Iranians lining up to pay tribute to King.
Iranians are good at that stuff.
Taarof
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 AM PDTBefarmayiid har chi mekhahid *** ziyadi bekhorid. Nooshe jan shoma bashe keif konid.
The only reason
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:56 AM PDTSome don't like MLK is because he was black and that don't fit the BNP agenda. Regarding prostitutes Jesus was known to hang out with them. I guess he don't fit the bill either.
Thanks For Mentioning Dr. Holakoie, Siavash
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:30 AM PDTI'll have to look into that.
What I observed in Iran was that politeness was extreme, to the point of lying.
Taarof is an example.
Some of it can be rationalized as considerateness.
But some of it is obvsiously opportunism, excessive obsession with appearances and lack of respect for things like the truth.
Martin Luther King is a Blown-Up Public Parade Balloon
by JahanKhalili on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:24 AM PDTMost people who rever him, don't even know about his seamy side.
According to what I've read, the FBI - which was wiretapping him - had a lot of dirt on him that isn't a matter of public record (I read somewhere that the files/records on that remain sealed). But it appears that he spent the last night of his life with some prostitutes, and was beating up one of them.
The people who really are in fact morally superior, often completely escape public notice.
This is because they have no access to the venues which form public opinion, such as the mass media - which is owned by a handful of very rich people.
The public is only as well informed about anything as they are meant to be by their masters.
Siavash Jan
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:10 AM PDTThese theories are BS of the prime kind. It reminds me of Aleister Crowley and his theories of development. He had this idea of people reaching different levels of spirituality. The highest being "Magus". He claimed only a few ever reached it these being: himself; some of the prophets and so on.
Personally I like the "Dungeons and Dragons" levels. I reaches a 20th level Wizard :-) Before getting dragged down to the plain of abyss by some demon.
What amazes me is the gullibility of people to fall for this ***. If you want BS then do it right. Go play D&D or some online game. At least they are honest about being BS. I am getting to the point where I have no more respect for non "hard" sciences.
Sure I respect art and I mean REAL art not throwing a bucket of paint at the wall. But unfortunately humanity sciences are so full of *** to not be worth reading.
Most of them are becoming the act of self promotion. Or that of one race or ideology. Personally I have no use for Kohlberg.
Be my guest. I rather spend my time reading about C++ or neutrinos.
Kohlberg's theory and JahanKhlili
by Siavash300 on Thu Oct 06, 2011 09:34 AM PDTDr. Holakoie is well known psychologist in Persian community. One day he told me that he tested Kohlberg's questioners among Iranian students back in 70's. Because the subject of our discussion was something else, I didn't follow up on Dr. Holakoie research who conducted Kohlbnerg's questioners in Iran. At present time, I don't have access to Dr.Holakoie because he lives in L.A (if I am not mistaking). I would love to know about the outcome. My assumption is the result would have been very much similar to Turkey and Vietnam that Kohlberg did it himself. Kohlberg study is cross cultural and doesn't belong to specific country. For example, he picked Sweden as a sample of industrial society. At the top of Kohlberg's hirarchy level of moral developement is Ghandi, and Martin Luther king. They are the only ones who reach to the ultimate level Kohlberg's theory. They were able to made a paradigm shift in society. Both characters were uprised against injustice and racism and they were not white!!
Siavash
White Americans Are Used to Being Criticized
by JahanKhalili on Wed Oct 05, 2011 07:54 PM PDTThey've been mocked, critiqued, and had almost every major figure in their history torn up and denounced - all in public.
Criticism of them is so normal that its passe. Its actually quite fashionable in universities across America.
Now I want to criticize Iranians and Middle Eastern culture, and I'm going to do it.
I welcome Siavash's contributions, because they show that not all Iranians are a bunch of stuck up chauvinistic bigots who think that their sh-t doesn't stink.
Siavash re: Generalization
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Wed Oct 05, 2011 04:12 AM PDTI reject the studies of people like Kohlberg. Because I lived long enough in America. I have seen the deep lying and cheating going on every day. Some of these researchers are just racists playing scientist. Plain simple racist.
They want to justify their "superiority" so cook up BS like level "N" development. No thanks I have seen American elections. I have heard Glenn Beck and Rush. They are popular and that proves "West" is just as dumb lying as anyone.
Jimmy Carter is Not To Blame for Iran's 1979 Revolution
by JahanKhalili on Tue Oct 04, 2011 07:32 PM PDTThere was no switch he could flip to turn the thing on or off.
What was going on, was going on in Iran, and Iranians were in control of it.