JahanKhalili
About myself:
I'm half Iranian and half American. I'm here to say what I think. If you came here to be pleased or flattered, you're in the wrong place. No one owns me. I'm a free individual. I don't bow to anyone's politics, here or in Iran. I'm my own person, and that's too bad if anyone doesn't like it. When people read my stuff, they'll get MY opinion. I alone am responsible for my opinion - no one else is. Likewise, I'm not responsible for your opinion, or your assumptions about me. You are.به زبان فارسی
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How Useful Are Iranian Know-It-Alls And Their Advice? Part 6
15-Nov-2011
The only reason I'm still here and writing on Iranian.com is that I consistently refused to back down or be intimidated when people objected to what I was writing. Through sheer persistence, I got some people to reluctantly pay attention.
Its not because Iranians are so tolerant. Its that they can't shut me up, and eventually give up when they realize I'm not going away and am going to tell the truth as I see it, regardless of what they think.
The negative reactions I've encountered on Iranian.com are not the only occasions where Iranians have shown a dislike for an open discussion that they couldn't control.
My father - who is Iranian - urged me not to study history, because (according to his know-it-all Iranian self) there was no money in it.
In other words, according to him, historical research - the aim of which is to discover the truth - is only good if it makes money.
As I mentioned, my father is Iranian. Iranians don't tend to value the truth for its own sake, but see things like the study of history as subordinate to some goal; making money, or looking good in some other way (both of which are naturally interconnected in the reputation-obsessed Iranian mind).
Its very important to be goal-oriented among Iranians; to know what you want, and for that to dictate EVERYTHING you do.
Nothing is any use unless it helps you get to some conclusion or goal. If it doesn't serve the purpose of reaching your goal, it is useless and you shouldn't spend time on it.
For example, the truth.
Iranians appear to occasionally regard the truth as something of an obstacle, in their hurry to get somewhere in life - the destination usually being a stage somewhere where they can look good in front of others, or a money-making machine like a respectable profession.
A classic example of this attitude is found in the way they treat their own history.
Over two thousand years ago, Iran was conquered by the Greeks.
I am no expert on this, and am still full of questions. How did the Greeks manage to conquer such a relatively huge empire as the Persian Empire?
How did they manage to defeat an army that was probably much larger than their own?
The genius needed to do such a thing - i.e. Alexander the Great's - is probably widely comprehended and understood by anyone with a serious interest in historic knowledge for its own sake.
It is not apparently comprehended by Iranians, however. Persian pride - that same futile inspiration that keeps them from acknowledging their shortcomings as a nation and people - prevents such a thing from happening.
In general at least, Iranians don't openly admit that they got their asses kicked fair and square by a smaller state with a smaller army.
Iranians are still pissed about it, two thousand years later!
That of course is the whole reason why they can't admit it.
The issue for Iranians is that they got their asses kicked. That the Persians invaded Greek territory first, entered Athens and then burned the Acropolis isn't the issue.
The only problem is that it MAKES THEM LOOK BAD - and how they look is all they are concerned about. As usual, the truth gets swept under the two thousand year old Persian carpet.
And so it was that I never learned about the genius of Alexander the Great from any Iranian.
As English poet Robert Graves wryly noted,
Truth-loving Persians do not dwell upon
The trivial skirmish fought near Marathon
When I raised the subject of these battles with Iranians inside of Iran, they always came up with a way to spin these battles into some sort of irrelevancy where they could safely not reflect badly on Iranians.
"The Iranian king chained his soldiers together", was what one know-it-all Iranian medical student told me. He painted a vision for me of a battle in which hapless Persian soldiers were conveniently chained together just so that the Greeks could defeat them. No rational explanation was ever given for this supposed situation, and I couldn't come up with any either.
I neglected to ask him if the supposedly chained Persian soldiers even had weapons, while I pondered.
My Iranian literature teacher bristled when I pointed out Alexander the Great's genius, and sternly informed me that Alexander the Great was the first one to legalize and promote homosexuality in Iran, and to make it officially acceptable as a practice.
And that was that. End of discussion about his military career.
... an old, slightly different twist on the policy of "don't ask, don't tell".
A close friend of mine had an obvious rise in blood pressure when I spoke with appreciation about how remarkable it was that Alexander the Great and the Greeks defeated the huge Persian Empire.
His eyes shone with anger, as he protested!
He tried to shift focus away from this inconvenient defeat, towards one supposed battle where Alexander's forces took heavy casualties and were allegedly defeated (I never learned any details of that supposedly all-important but conveniently obscure battle from him, but my guess is that this might have been the Battle of the Persian Gate).
And my father? I never heard anything about the matter from him, except about the terrible destruction of Perspolis.
Yes, I know the Greeks ruined it. The ruins of Perspolis do eventually tend to give one the idea that Perspolis was ruined.
But how did they manage to capture it? Maps show that the Greeks must have kicked Persian asses across a great distance, to have reached it.
... we never quite got around to that uncomfortable subject.
I've waited in vain all my life to hear one Iranian explain it.
So at every opportunity, Iranians had some way of avoiding acknowledging that Alexander the Great was a military genius, or that the Persians sucked and that's why they were defeated.
I could not get them to talk about just how the Greeks managed to defeat their larger Persian enemy, or to even permit the focus of the topic to remain on Alexander's military prowess.
Not a single Iranian was willing to consider Alexander the Great's talents or capabilities vs. their own!
His conquest was simply an unfortunate event like a natural phenomenon - say, a hurricane - that struck Iran.
People who make up crap about Islam being the source of lying in the Middle East (the "Taghiyeh" myth) need to shut up and study this.
Islam does no such thing as promote lying, of course. But whatever tool is handy to help Iranians avoid criticism and deflect it onto something else, will do. The Iranians who cling most passionately to pre-Islamic Iran aren't the religious Muslims. The Iranians who bristle at the mention of Alexander the Great aren't doing it out of Islamic conviction. Islam might be their current favorite excuse for current Iranian failures, but they can't blame it for that one.
Long story short, I did not learn from Iranians anything about the history of their conflict with Greece, or about why they got their asses kicked by Alexander the Great.
I failed to learn from Iranians about an important conflict from one of the main chapters of their own history. They have trouble even talking about it, or acknowledging some key aspects about it, such as getting their asses kicked, and having started it.
Is this good?
Not if you are supposed to take the pronouncements of Iranian know-it-alls seriously.
... i.e. so seriously as to make life-changing decisions based on them.
| Recently by JahanKhalili | Comments | Date |
|---|---|---|
| German News From the Second World War - Die Deutsche Wochenschau Nr. 752 | 39 | Dec 11, 2011 |
| How Useful Are Iranian Know-It-Alls And Their Advice? Part 9 | 144 | Dec 09, 2011 |
| How Useful Are Iranian Know-It-Alls And Their Advice? Part 8 | 66 | Nov 23, 2011 |
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VPK, lol! (It's basic verified/verifiable school stuff)
by Tiger Lily on Mon Nov 21, 2011 02:53 PM PSTIt's just bizarre. So many revisionists around, it seems to be a disease determined to be caught.
eWWWaaaw.
All Iranian "experts"
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Mon Nov 21, 2011 02:47 PM PSTWow IC is overflowing with Iran experts these days. But no one agrees with anyone I give up! Why do you not all write books and sell on Amazon.
bahmani, what are you on about?
by Tiger Lily on Mon Nov 21, 2011 02:48 PM PST"My best guess is based on the facts of the history that we know for
certain, which is that more than often than not, Iranians under a king,
have so far always abandoned the king precisely at the time in which
that king appears to be weak or doomed."
"This only works if you accept the theory that Iranians cave whenever
they perceive their king to be in trouble, or unlikely to survive. "
etc.
NO KIDDIN'!
What do you think "leaders" are for? In any society?
Please, look up strategies that Alexander undertook. (I've hinted at quite a few in my post somewhere below)
And in FACT, those "kings" had fled!*
P.S. you know, what's really weird, for me personally, is that I know more about the Battles of Issus. It's about to freak me out.
*Your most recent example fled, knowing full well he was going to die anyway of cancer.
Iranians flee whenever their king is in trouble...
by bahmani on Mon Nov 21, 2011 02:21 PM PSTGreat observation on the question of the logistics of Alexander's relatively smaller army defeating the Persians.
My best guess is based on the facts of the history that we know for certain, which is that more than often than not, Iranians under a king, have so far always abandoned the king precisely at the time in which that king appears to be weak or doomed.
This happened twice in the modern age for sure, so I'd say that's enough to extrapolate it happening during the Alexander years.
It happened first, when an arguably justified angry Reza Khan Pahlavi took the country with nary a whimper from the corrupt Ghajars in 1921.
It happened again, when the original "bearded freak" Khomeini took Iran away from Reza Khan's own son by 1979, or 1977, really.
Given the period in which Alexander came of age as a military leader of Greece, This was a time in which the Persian King Darius III ruled. Known for being overconfident, apparently at the first battle in which Alexander's army defeated the Persians at the battle of Issus, this caused Darius III a lot of worry, and after Issus, and out of laziness, Darius III began sub contracting the war to Memnon and other mercenaries who given the obvious loyalties of mercenaries, weren't as committed as the Greeks who fueled by success and under the genius of Alexander, rolled on, all the way to Persepolis.
This only works if you accept the theory that Iranians cave whenever they perceive their king to be in trouble, or unlikely to survive.
When this happens, when Iranians think their King is done for, the stats show, they bail on him and let whatever happens, happen to him. A lot smile quietly as it happens. Some grin broadly. Almost no one will admit doing either.
Likely, and also statistically proven, and not surprising, when you factor in that Iranians mostly want to be left alone, and aren't terribly predisposed to being loyal to anyone except themselves.
Which in a long way I suppose, makes your entire point.
My take away is that the example of Alexander's not surprising victory over Persia, yet again proves that Iranians simply don't do too well under tyrants, and it always seems to work out especially bad for the tyrants. Poor Persian Tyrants!
Better that Iranians self govern as an unaffected and emotionally un-invested group, through something like a Democracy, because then you cannot really get angry (since it would be all of our faults) and there would be no one to blame (since everyone voted for the asshole), and the simple solution would be to vote for someone else this time and see how he/she does. Which gives us the way to expend the minimum collective effort and action we are willing to consider to get up for and take.
Meanwhile the lights would still work, the toilets would flush, and the music would play, and the wine would flow as if nothing happened.
Above all Iranians don't like disruption to their precious daily life. They will do anything, get around any government, squirrel away any amount of cash, precisely to enjoy their lives. In convenience, comfort, and whenever possible, style!
Regardless of who "thinks" they are in power over them.
If this has in fact been our very character since Alexander, how easily he appears to have conquered Persia is completely and utterly obvious.
To read more bahmani posts visit: //brucebahmani.blogspot.com/
Nowhere Can Be Found Such Stupidity...
by JahanKhalili on Sat Nov 19, 2011 04:38 PM PST... as among you people.
You're the same as one pair of buttocks are to another.
All this crap about me being behind several accounts, or having someone else write my stuff is your own confession that this stuff is NORMAL for YOU.
Silly Little Iranians Just Don't Get It
by JahanKhalili on Sat Nov 19, 2011 04:36 PM PSTYou guys stink, OK?
Its your problem, not mine.TS9 dear: this guy comes here under 10 different names just ...
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:53 AM PST... to vent his anger toward his Iranian father.
It's sort of self-loathing, but projected outwards at the "Iranians this and Iranians that".
To counter his father-figure nemesis, without totally denying his own male-line heritage ... he has turned to IRI goons and "Islamist Heros", whom his father used to deride and redicule as idiots and fanatics.
This way he can fight his father, without fighting his own manhood.
Sargord: that would be $300 for this consultation session!
Shazde
by Truthseeker9 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:45 AM PSTThat's a hilarious blog. Also, interesting observation ...
Sargord: resolve your father issues, and get out of the basement
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:40 AM PST//iranian.com/main/blog/shazde-asdola-mirza/christmas-dinner-major-victor-s-basement
Alexander the Great, you say
by Rea on Sat Nov 19, 2011 03:45 AM PSTThe only thing that comes to my mind.
//youtu.be/xvRWUCfAPs0
Baldrick
by anglophile on Sat Nov 19, 2011 03:37 AM PSTJK, you're lucky
by Tiger Lily on Fri Nov 18, 2011 05:49 PM PSTthe rest was also a pack of lies. Apparently in a population of 60million at the time, they couldn't find a local cook or local drinking water (at the time, still the pride of the entire globe for its granite system, now polluted that even rats snub it), so they had to import French food and Evian water.
Hala, in [har chi fosh] mikhad pool jam avari bekone for Persian Culture Foundation. Roo ke nist. But I'm really wondering if the specimen isn't very mentally retarded. At least I could then have some compassion for this [har chi fohsh]. Truly, I mean it. Two kids commit suicide (one a heavy Class A, criminal drug user like her aunt, the other I don't know, but must have been some terminal illness, poor guy, as I hear in the grapevine), the other one can't put a sentence together, maybe they really are just mentally retarded, in which case, they need our compassion and modern medical treatment. Modern. Ina ke enghadr modernan....
VPK, haven't just realized it. I just didn't know that these [har chi fohsh] are still 'at it with yoghurt'. Migam, roo ke nist....Oonam engar khabariye. There aren't even amongst diehards in diaspora more than a couple of thousand, if that, who believe and support the crap. The number of sane ones is of course for a professional to diagnose.
There are a few groups with vested interests however who heavily invest in this crap for MORE financial gain.
Bi khial.Koor khoondan. They really are retarded, as the rest of their group is doing and has been doing heavy dealingsvia Dubai, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Bahamas for two decades already. In the billions.
Baz mian in korsi-shera mikhan be mardom bekhor bedan.
(sorry, I brought it up, as if khabariye. khabari nist. It's just regurgitated garbage.)
P.S. Yes I truly loathe them. It is THEY who paved the way for such a revolution. It is THEIR greed and ignorance that brought us these things. These things, that I can't even begin to think to stomach. Roo ke nist!
Az oon idiot pleb soldier who thought that 'modern' shodan was making, forcing,people wear 'modern clothes, right down to the beyond idiotic laughing stock of the world 2500 big bottom burping attempt in a swimming costume. Roo ke nist!
Jk, that's also very much were the nouveau behaviour stems from.
Roo ke nist.
Looks like they took down that video
by JahanKhalili on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:08 PM PSTAww, shucks. I didn't get to see it to the end.
Anywhere else I can see it?
Jashne Honar
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Fri Nov 18, 2011 06:09 AM PSTwas a pile of *** from day one. I have written many times about it. Did you folks just realize this :-) It was all pomp and BS with no connection to Iranians. First of all we did not need a festival!
Second if we did want a festival why not have one on Iranian art. This was all pomp and served no purpose other than piss people off. My mother calls it "gonheh goozi". It was an assault on Iranians five senses as well as the mind.
The worst was not Stockhausen but that "play" of Rostam. It was by some Indian group with a rather strange performance. He had nails about 6 inches and was the strangest thing I saw.
JK
by Tiger Lily on Fri Nov 18, 2011 01:58 AM PSTIt's a deep nouveau inferiority complex and unbelievable ignorance, which wouldn't make my blood boil, if they weren't still Goebbelsying around, (although the Iranians I know, don't bother with this sort of crap anyway). That "thing" is one of the greatest embarrassments of the country and was only tolerated because of oil. Looks like one of those Commonwealth chieftains hoolahoohooing around.
Instead, it would have been greater PR to have festivals and festivities all over the nation of all cultural heritage with foundations set up, which would have made it a primary tourist attraction amongst many other things.
Instead, the kleptomaniacs gave Shiraz, wait for it: Stockhausen.
Btw, something occurred to me. I gather that the rural population is quite aware of flora and fauna: the difference lies in recorded categorizations and classifiations. The Why, I haven't worked out yet.
Anyway, never mind the silly people.... Have a good weekend.
حالا خوبه
JahanKhaliliThu Nov 17, 2011 04:44 PM PST
که یک حرف از ان خارجیهایی که این اثر باستانی ایران را کشف کردند، یک دانه حرفی نزدند. فقط بلدند بگویند: آفرین بر ما!
The most embarrassing thing about it is...
by JahanKhalili on Thu Nov 17, 2011 04:36 PM PST... that no foreigner ever really cared.
Yeah, Thanks Tiger Lily
by JahanKhalili on Thu Nov 17, 2011 04:33 PM PSTThere is something in common between the Pahlavis and the Islamic Republic; they both loved to show off about themselves.
The former made that big ceremony with the tents at Perspolis, to dazzle some politicians from other countries, and to try to make waves on the international scene.
The later made great big demonstrations, where hundreds of thousands or even millions of people would go marching from one end of a big avenue to another, chanting their slogans, and basically showing off to the world about how big and great they were.
... and what do you know? Both the Pahlavis and the Akhunds are Iranian.
Iranians love to show off because they have an inferiority complex.
So, what's new?
MG, ;) !
by Tiger Lily on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:28 PM PSThala, speaking of which. I mean, what made the country even more of a laughing stock*,(I usually never read the idiotic crap), bia bebin roo ke nist.(Basically migan Iranians ghadre maghze genius maro nemidoonestan) vAllah, doroogh chera! lol
Who would defend these bad things in Iranian culture?
by JahanKhalili on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:44 AM PSTObviously, people who themselves practice them or are guilty of them.
So
by JahanKhalili on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:26 AM PSTI've described real events and people in this series. As someone who watched what was unfolding in front of me, I made observations and drew conclusions, just as any human would.
Unfortunately, I was not able to be a completely detached observer. I had to participate in and be forced to accomodate other people's ideas, because I was living in that culture.
Naturally, the emphasis on collective reputation and ego that is found among Iranians will drive some people to react only based on how this appears to reflect on themselves and what threat it poses to their own version of Iranian culture that they would like to promote for public view, without regard to whether it is true.
I never expected otherwise.
However, some of you have also hinted that you fully understand what I'm talking about.
So I find that very telling.
Very Interesting Comments
by JahanKhalili on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:14 AM PSTYou actually can learn something about a people - Iranians for example - by watching their reaction to criticism of their culture and people.
It never fails to be instructive for me.
Well thank you
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Nov 17, 2011 06:20 AM PSTAfghanistan is a part of Greater Khorasan; thank you! I do not like racism whether it be against Iranians; Arabs or anyone.
If I understand you then we are in agreement. We do get the good; bad and well beauty is in the eye of beholder. So I will leave that part out. By the way I am not a taxi driver. I failed the taxi cap license test sorry had to settle for Zionist agent.
The veiled prophet of Afghanistan
by cyrousg1 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 05:59 AM PSTOh god not you, I should have known the second something disparaging was said about precious Iranians you'd be on it like white on rice (no pun intended to the chelow kabab eating world). "self praising" thats a laugh isn't it, I didn't say one word about myself it was darling Iranians (didn't you see if anyone dares to criticise Iranians its because they are self-haters not self-praisers).
Moral of the story Iranians are humans like anybody else you get the good, the bad and the ugly in every nationality and only a simple minded bigot would fail to comprehend this obvious point. I wasn't waiting for but glad I received your earthy taxi driver wisdom
Words of wisdom
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Thu Nov 17, 2011 05:36 AM PSTThanks cyrousg1 I was just waiting for your wisdom. How about this: Iranians are people just as anyone with all the faults and good of humans. Too hard for a racist to understand? All humans are just people.
They are subject to good and bad. And no "holier than thou" *** needs to lecture others. If you are infallible then prove it. Otherwise your cynical self praising posts are not helpful.
PS: amirkabear4u there is nothing wrong with running if the danger is great. If a tusnami is moving my way I will run as fast as possible. You are welcome to stay. Please write me a post card after it is all done.
Iranian cultural superiority
by cyrousg1 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 04:47 AM PSTIranians are the best people in the world by a mile, the evil stupid white man thinks they're a bunch of haji baba muslims but in actual fact they are gorgeous sexy Zoroastrians the descendants of Cyrus the great. Oh and I almost forgot to mention hands down the most beautiful people on earth from their nose jobs to their over the top hair styles, ostentatious dress sense and of course the obligatory bird-man (faravahar) symbol hanging from their necks. The only time anyone would have a reason to criticise Iranians is if that person was a jealous self-hating loser who just cannot seem to live up to the tremendously intense level of thats right 'Iranian cultural superiority'
WELL Baldrick
by amirkabear4u on Thu Nov 17, 2011 01:26 AM PSTyou did not answer my question.
Now I can assume you are like other Iranians, you run when it gets too hot. haha !!!!!!!!
Angole Jan
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Wed Nov 16, 2011 07:03 PM PSTSorry!
As they say I am a bit out of it.
EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER - HALLOWED BE THY NAME
Historical Revisionism by TL on Hezb Khaaraan aka Hezb Olaaghaan
by Mash Ghasem on Wed Nov 16, 2011 02:10 PM PSTThe only reasons for the party's shakey start was TL's own Khar to khary!
Did you know that you look like Sonny Bono?
by Faramarz on Wed Nov 16, 2011 01:14 PM PSTJahan Bro,
I haven't been following your blog but I see your comments all over the place.
You see, if more than 50% of the comments on your blog is from you, then that means that you are not blogging, you are preaching, which is not a good thing.
Here is Sonny and Cher without the orange color.
//www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=80QHRTQ3Kmw