Musings of a former chicken

The Helpless 3000?!

Where were you when these "helpless" people held hands with Saddam Hussain in his massacre of Iranian soldiers?

MKO is the trigger-man of the 1979 revolution. Without MKO we would've been free of mullahs now and their revolution could not have succeeded.

They fooled young boys and sent them to kill Iranian border guards and capture towns and those boys all got killed by IRI while Rajavi got fatter, married his dead-friend's wife and made her Iran's unelected president. I wonder where he was when his comrads got beaten by Iraqi forces.

Don't worry about that

I am well aware of the affair of the Immigration (at least here, but also of some other asylum countries) Believe it or not, the cases which are accepted as refugee here, are much more sever than the brain washed MKE's.....that's why they are called refugee! Some need longs years of psychological treatment and recovering.
This is called "Human Rights" and guess what? It came first from the European Capitals.

Now I think I have to say good night before this blog become hijacked by my offtrack exchanges with you.

i know, I know.....it's always my fault

These posts are not to be read as legal documents!

      Eventhough, technically you are correct and I myself were aware of the implied inconsistency between "ulteior motives" vs. "Naiveness" claims, I didn't bother! In real world always those with ulterior motives manipulate the naive ones and this case may not be an exception!

   Is it a European thing to pepper your posts with patronizing comments: "..but I was waiting for your permission"?! Specially when you aks me at the end how I like your opinion?

    On the subject: We shouldn't give the rank and file of MEK an easy pass! Leaders should head to courts and followers have to have their heads examined. They are not normal people. Noone would be after 30 years of brainwash!

Contradiction!

You said :

"If Europe does not have an ulterior motive" and added "I higly doubt"

The if here, is a big IF! and IF you highley doubt (which you are absolutely correct) then you must know that they are not So Naive!

On the subject, I was about to say my opinion, but I's waiting first to get your permission. Now that you allowed me, I have to say that I agree with most of the commentators here: the MEK members in Iraq can be set free but not the leadership.
And also the members true motivation must be checked and approved by the authorities of the asylum countries. But overall, I have always been for the forgiveness, peace and freedom.
How do you like it?

Relax...

     Souri,

    I said "naive intellectuals in European capitals"! I meant politicians. Hint: Capitals!

  Anyhow, this thread is not about judging European intellectualism. Its' about a major mistake by Europe to let bunch of psychopaths in society. If Europe does not have an ulterior motive (I highly doubt) it sure must ask WTH MEK was doing in Iraq under the payroll of the genocidal Saddam?

On this side of pond anyone who trusts MEK looks patently naive. How doe sit look from otherr side? Lastly, let us know what you think on the topic of this thread instead of fuming over side issues!

naive??

Who? The European intellectuals ??

Do you live in America?

Okay, I understand where you come from!

Trust me, the European intellectuals are much smarter than you can even imagine. Take it easy.
They are might be more liberal than the Americans, but this is for the exact reason that they are so much smart and  politically involved that they have  a great power on their government. Don't underestimate them. You need to study much more about the European culture. From what you have just stated here, it seems that the true naive one, is you!

Faramrz

Thanks for the good information, most of them were  new for me. Man, where do you get your info? You amazed me.

Europeans are fooled by colorful parades perhaps! :-)

Parades with bright colors, music and festive environment perhaps has lulled the willingly naive Europeans to wonder, why should we keep these nice, civilized, jolly people off the political discourse. After all they are much to be preferred to the pesky, out of fashion Mullas.

     The MEK colorful parades is as much to be trusted as a colorful snake! These people won't hesitate to betray anyone including the naive, intellectuals in European capitals. There is only one absolute for this cult and that is Masoud! I am extremely worried that this cult is being legitimized! 

Javid and/or Moderators,

I wrote "Sack of liar" in my headline to demonstrate a point. That's FredCo's catch phrase, used 100s of times.

Are you telling me you are going to edit his words and take out that phrase from now on?

If you are, then I applaud you. If you are not you are being completely hypocritical by editing my comments but not FredCo's.

liar!

wow... is it something peculiar to Israel propagandists that they think we are so stupid as to not get what code words mean? How lame and arrogant must you be to think people don't know what kind of nasty language "sack of liar" really is? I suppose we should be thankful form the days where the coward FredCo's nasty attacks were primarily people's real names and professions.

Since his Zion-ness, demanded the evidence, I'm happy to oblige with one of the instances I could find. Just keep in mind this is just the portion FredCo once "confided" to the IC community.

I strongly support those policies of AIPAC that backs up helping enslaved Iranian nation emancipate herself from the tyranny of the ruling Islamists by moral and material help from the free world. 

I also strongly support and believe in the natural/historical/ strategic alliance between a freed Iran and Israel. I have yet to see any, that is ANY evidence of them working against the national interests of Iran which should not be confused with that of the Islamist cutthroats republic. The Islamist lobbies and agents constantly talk to the contrary but no beef there either.

Being solely concerned with the Islamists’ savagery imposed on Iran, and worried about where it is heading, for the duration of Iran’s enslavement any and all other positions taken by that lobby or any country is non of my concerns.

source: //iranian.com/main/blog/fred-9page2

So, assuming the "sack of Zionist liar" was quickly clued into how the vast majority of Iranians feel about his AIPAC brethern, we can take this confession as the floor of where he really stands, the ceiling being waxed by his repeated and tactical 24/7 dissemination of AIPAC propaganda.

Just for the sake of argument if taking his words at their value, there are one of 3 conclusions (or more likely all three) are possible.

1. FredCo believes AIPAC's well known support of MEK, falls into the "moral and material" support that he already agrees with, like he says in the first paragraph.

2. FredCo believe AIPAC's well known support of MEK is "other positions" that are "none of his business" like FredCo's cover-your-ass retort in the third paragraph.

3. FredCo still hasn't seen any evidence that AIPAC's well known support of MEK is "ANY EVIDENCE" against the national interests of Iran, as is claimed in paragraph 2.

FredCo is an AIPAC and/or Zionist propagandist. Please note that FredCo is not just another idiot "strategic thinker" for the future of Iran who has "couragiously" accepted violent consequences like war and sanctions, that other people have to suffer in order to satisfy  his/her own political ideology. Such a misguided fool is not uncommon in this community.

But Fred is merely pretending to be just another misguided fool so that he can get his AIPAC propaganda accross, including AIPAC's well known support of MEK.

Can you imagine your run-of-the-mill revenge hater and anti IRI "activist" (say like Kadivar, or others) actually claiming they would accept AIPAC's "material" help? That they would be stupid enough to think the people that maintains the lifeline of MEK can be trusted in any sense of the word?

Of course not. It's been 30 years and there has not been any strategic relationship between MEK and other dissident groups. You know who does think these strategies? Zionists and pro Israel forces in Washington. That's exactly how they think and that's exactly how they acted during the Bush administration.

That's the difference between FredCo and your normal anti IRI Iranian.

How come I am not surprised?!

       The blog that constantly defends Israeli thugs, is advocating MEK removal from terror list!!

        As I noted in another blog, I trust MEK or MKO when I trust OJ Simpson! Leaders have to stand trial. Camp Ashraf has to be turned into a mental hospital for the followers. We can not let go of bunch of brainwashed, deluded people who are trained to kill! 

        Europeans are misled by the efficient propaganda machine of MKO. Anyone who bothers monitoring Iranian political air can not miss the fact that nothing units Iranians of all walks of like but hatred bot MKO traitors!

       Letting MKO back to political process is the most naive and  dangerous thing to do! I am surprised there is no more organized action from people against this despite the enormous despise for this group! 

Simorgh Jan

The first step is to get the  USA president to guarantee Iranian integrity. That is something we should all push for regardless of our position on war. It should not be very hard to get but a very important promise to get.

VPK Jan

I agree that the territorial integiry of Iran is not for compromise. I think we should remain vigilant against Separatist movements in Iran but this should not prevent us from taking decisive military action if need be. If any country faced the risk of separation then it would have been Iraq but this remarkably this not happen. I am not saying, and never have said, that the Americans must liberate Iran: this is ultimately the task of the Iranian people action en masse or by means of an Iranian liberation army on the ground . However, any libetation movement by Iranians will require outside support especially in the form of airfoce and strategic attacks on Sepah and the Basij. Unless Iranians are given F-16 Airplanes of their own then assistance must come from another country.

Put pride, emotion and sentimentality aside and ask what solution is there? Even if you were to remove the regime by foce how can it be done? With  whose Army?  Using ground force or air foece? Who can supply them?

thank you Q

Q, I just wrote a thank you to you..., my delusional freind argued with me on a point that he does not disagree with me! .... a "JM" sycophant of AIPACzadeh type also blew a fuse or two although I partly agree with Calibos (and Calibos and AIPACzadeh worship the same god)!  It seems that a 'thank you' to you has some magical power......, I shall thank you more often despite all of our political/ideological disagreements!

MEK, General Price and Degrees of Separation

I tend to agree with Fred and others that MEK members in Iraq need to be set free and hopefully be given asylum in the West. They don’t pose a threat neither to the Regime nor to the West.

MEK despite its success in providing valuable information about Regime’s nuclear sites, good lobbying and relationships with some members of the US Congress, has never been successful in shaking off its terrorist image of the 70’s, especially against US military personnel in Tehran.

In 1972, Major General Harold Price, the US military liaison in Tehran was the target of an assassination which he survived. He lived in a villa in northern Tehran, rented from a sr. military officer. The terrorists placed a bomb under his car, but he survived with a broken leg. A few days later he attended a party in his honor and had Iranian military personnel sign his cast!

US Air Force Colonels Schaffer and Turner were not as lucky in 1975. They were both killed by the terrorists in north of Tehran. The technique was the classic ambush of European and South American guerrillas. They boxed the car in heavy traffic (one in front and one in the back). Then the third car came with the assassins, told the Iranian driver to get out and shot the Americans point blank. It is interesting that the Regime’s Basiji and Plain Clothes use the similar “swarming” technique on innocent Iranians today.

General Price retired and left Iran and was replaced by General Secord of infamous Iran-Contra affair, whereby the money from the sale of weapons to the Regime were used to fund the Nicaraguan mercenaries fighting the leftists. General Secord and Iranian businessman Albert Hakim were the masterminds behind the scheme and worked closely with Reagan’s White House Staff Oliver North (Fox News) and Elliot Abrams (the son-in-law of the hawkish Neocon figure Norman Podhoretz.) Oliver North, as we remember was the guy who travelled to Tehran in the 80’s in a private jet to meet with Rafsanjani to smooth the US-Khomeini relationship. He had heard that Khomeini liked chocolate cakes, so he brought him one!

Small World!

Serbia NATO

Remember the NATO was to force them to give up Kosovo. Not to remove Milosevic or help Serbs. I do not want a NATO actions that will cost Iran some of our nation. I do not trust the USA or NATO any more than I trust the MKO in regard to Iran.

I do not hate USA in any way but do not trust its plans for Iran.

If USA wants to help they can do one thing. I Obama must give a speech and:

Tell the world that USA supports the territorial integrity of Iran. That USA does not recognize or support any separatist movement.

If Obama does this then people will feel better about bringing down this regime. 

If not then IRI will make a legitimate argument using Serbia as an example. The opposition had better be ready to respond. Or people will be reluctant to join the opposition.

Thank you, Fredsy ,

for taking a very clear moral (humanitarian) stance....

"Hiroshima, who was the hiro, and who is Shima?"

Roozbeh

Maliki's government in Iraq is an extension of the Islamic Republic. The terrorists occupying Iran have their man planted in the seat of power in Iraq and the Americans are too embroiled in security operations to be able to do anything to help the MKO members.

I share the deep-seeded suspicions of the users here towards the MKO because of Rajavi and her Marxist followers. They were after all responsible for the calamity of 1979. 

I will say this though in their favour,I will not condemn the assassination of clerics and terrorist thugs of the Islamic Republic. Iranians who are serious about removing the Islamic Republic must form a liberation army but a better resourced one to be able to destroy the Islamic Republic.

Because of my views of military action, I have been labled 'Zionist', Neo-Con, Aipac and a traitor. However, I have become immune to insults because I have come to the almost inevitable conclusion that the only way to remove these people is through the use of force. Nobody wants to see their country attacked but if you were to put your sentiments to one side and see the situation through the eyes of an objective outsider you will realise there is no other way. Military action is not without its challenges and there is the risk of anarchy and risk of ethnic separatists from trying to take advantage of the turmoil but if you want to remove the regime you are kidding youself to believe that the terrorists can be removed peacefully. I am not a military general and I make no pretenses at being one but a military resposne to the problem with the IR must be carefully thought through. I can live with being called a traitor, Zionist, imperialist and whatever names people can throw at me if it means setting the Iranian people and my nation free. there is no quick fix. There is no painless exit. It is not an easy decision and it is easier for me to say 'lets bomb them'living in exile and not having to live in Iran. All of this is true but still removing all of the feelings of guilt and human emotion: there is no other way. 

As for being a traitor? When crowds of protesters chanted 'Marg bar Shah' during the so-called revolution of 1979, a small minority of people like Shapour  Bakhtiyar were called tratiors becuase they thought it would be better to stay with the Shah and not go down the road of madness of Khomeini. The same gullible people went to vote for Khatami and Mousavi out of desperation so as un-democratic as this sounds I couldn't give a hoot whether the Iranian people back military action or not. Even now there are still many Iranians who believe that defending Arab interest in Lebanon and Palestine and confronting Israel is in Iran's interests. Do you think I honestly care what these people think? You must be joking.Unfortunately Iranian people, and in particular the previous generation, have made too many mistakes to be able to rely on their judgement for, 

Just remember this: Serbia was a successful example of NATO military action although riddled by errors.. The Serbs hated Milosevic but understandably rounded on Milosevic when their country was being bombed. Its natural Iranians will do the same thing. When Milosevic's  tyranny ended most of them were relieved and saw the dividend of NATO action paid off. Of course, no self-respecting Serb would admit it but you can see it in their face. 

"same way".....

the flies feeding on and spewing the islamist regime's crap, are all the same, one can smell their unsavory stench from a mile no matter how much golab is applied! 

And today you had your more than your fair share of being noticed and "emshied" appropriately, but no more until next time I decide so! now go and eat some more jooooooooooooish tukey!

Calibos and AIPAC civil war (to Prophet)

Khorasani says: "We know that MKO is being proped up by some factions of AIPAC. The
smarter Israeli know that a stable secular Iran is to *their* benefit.
They are unfortunately their voice is drowned by the right wing nut
jobs."

Khorasani, could not agree more with you on that, also I agree with you on how MEKs should be treated, as I said ' I don't disagree with some of what Calibos says in this particular blog', on Q's comment we can disagree.

Q, it seems that the red star sycophant from "JM"'s AIPACzadeh's team thinks you and I think the same way!!!! hehehehhhehehheh! 

Marhoum

Thanks for the advise it is my morning coffee!

How about getting back to our topic? What is your opinion?

We know that MKO is being proped up by some factions of AIPAC. The smarter Israeli know that a stable secular Iran is to *their* benefit. They are unfortunately their voice is drowned by the right wing nut jobs.

They are not going to give up. Therefore the best approach is to neutralize MKO. The way to do that is to deprive them from any foot soliders. If Iran were to take back the rank and file MKO will become ineffective.

To do so there needs to be some kind of amnesty so they are willing to turn themselves over to Iran.

Calibos and AIPAC civil war (to Q)

Q, thanks for the link. Since last year when AIPAC team here (Calibos CO) came out of closet, they have been more explicit, but where was it that Calibos said: "they [AIPAC] have Iran's best interest in mind"?

I ask this because one of these sycophants (a "JMi" or Shahi,.... said why I call these guys AIPACis....)

Prophet, take it easy, I don't disagree with some of what Calibos says in this particular blog.

The non-Kosher Shack

If I were Bibi's rabbi I would have warned him of the perils of Maryam's unmade bed. 

Never increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.

Insults

This thread started as a good discussion with several of us discussing the subject. Then Q came along and shot an insult right off the bat to Fred. Next Fred responds in kind. Now a fine discussion may be submerged beneath tit for tat. Thanks Q: Zahreto rikhti.

Let us get back to the topic. The best way to deal with insults is to ignore them. We do not need to hit back. Insults do not make your argument better!

Sack of islamist liars

When the shameless Islamist sack of liars quote someone, the civilized non-Islamist Rapist way is to cite the source.

The EU parliment

is full of s*** more so than the USA which also has problems. Not only do they not understand Iran; they do not have our good in mind. I am sickened by "az ma bhetaran" deciding our fate. Specially idiots from EU parliament. The same assholes who presided over the disaster in Yugoslavia. Not content with that now they want to start a civil war in Iran. No one with a minimal intelligence will fall for the Rajavi crap. I conclude that EU is deliberately trying to mess up Iran.

That is why Iran needs to take charge of the MKO. As I said: give the rank and file amnesty right now. Then announce it and demand the MKO rank and file be allowed the choice to move back to Iran. When that happens the MKO will be defanged and EU may write all the resolutions it frigging well wants to do. That is all they are good for anyway. In short: EU is impotent to ham us if we take action. They will do nothing just babble on and pass none binding resolutions!

FredCo should consult his AIPAC allies, before lecturing

others on the Rajavist cult. AIPAC and Israel are the chief supporters of Rajavi and have been since the demise of Saddam. (Both US allies). So much for FredCo's claim "they [AIPAC] have Iran's best interest in mind".

But I get it, things must be confusing given the embarrassing civil war that AIPAC-rats everywhere want to hide under the carpet. //blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/11/16/aipacs-civil-war-revealed

Of course the EU resolution has two parts, and one can't pick and choose the part one likes. So "accepting" the help portion means accepting the whole thing. MEK massively lobbies for this. This is how MEK operates, it always hides itself in guise of something good and sneaks through its real agenda (now financed by FredCo buddies at AIPAC): being removed from the terrorist list.

The MKO

Rank and file includes many once idealistic Iranian who got fooled. They wanted to do good but got involved with a bad leadership. The "ordinary" ones as Moosir calls them have paid enough. For 30 years we have lived in relative comfort. But those poor suckers have been living under one Rajavi: the leader from hell. Of course it was their own fault for being fooled. But in my opinion that 30 years is sufficient punishment. As RP said (mehrdadm blog) there must be reconciliation.

These people should be re-integrated into the society and given a clean slate. This will once for all put and end to the MKO "experiment". It will remove MKO as a force without USA having a say. Nut job Bachmann may talk to Rajavi until the cows come home. But without his troops Ravaji is nothing.

It is called taking our destiny into our own hands. 

F* MKO; F* the Neoclowns; WE DECIDE!

They are free to go home to

They are free to go home to Iran. Some have gone. But the remaining wish to remain terrorists or become residents in other countries that don't want them, or both.

I certainly don't want these terrorists setting up shop here in my country, the US. You folks want these terrorists for potential neighbors? Go ahead but not in my country.

I agree with you Fred &

MoosirvaPiaz.