Musings of a former chicken

Regarding Baer (to Mammad)

I was watching one of his latest interviews, I sensed that he was trying to appease the Israeli lobby (more so than before) .... not to the extent that many others do but in a very subtle way.... that is just my gut feeling.

Robert Baer the expert?

Since when Robert Baer is an expert on what to do with the IRI?

He was a CIA agent for 25 years, and responsible for the murder of thousands. Just read the article below about how he easily admits to be responsible for an event that led to killing of 2000 Iraqis.

 //www.counterpunch.org/ketcham10232009.html

But, even if we accept him as an expert, what he has said about Iran has been totally skewed in this thread. 

In October 2008 I co-organized a symposium on U.S.-Iran relation. We had five speakers, one of whom was Baer. He said that the Shah wanted to be the hegemon of the Middle East, and so also does the IRI, because it has to do with Iran's history and its proud people.

He then said that, even if this were not true during the Shah, we should not be surprised, because Israel and the U.S. also want to be hegemon of the ME, so, why should anybody cringe at the thought of the IRI wanting to do the same? As he said, "we do it, and therefore they do it. We support Mojahedin and Jundallah, so they support Hezbollah and Hamas." These are his exact words.

And, Baer, in fact, advocates an accomodation with the IRI. 

Mammad

benross

Very astute observations, kudos

point with no reference.

point with no reference. That is  about it.

Good day

-YT 

I made my point and that's

I made my point and that's the end of it. If you try to divert discussion from Iran to Israel, I'm not game. Israel is not angel. But she is currently the only state in the region that values secularism and democracy. When others start talking to her with the same language, not as a bunch of politicians and diplomats, but as nations, things will change. Israel is not stupid. Good for her. In the meantime, you are not going to succeed diverting my attention from Iran to Israel. I'm only sorry for Bijan who once said 'screw Israel' (or something like that) just to prove to likes of you that he is Iranian, albeit Jew. This saddened me. He shouldn't have given to bullies and gets as low as they are.

Israel's plan for hegemony? no way!! you must be kidding.

They just happened to have two extra pieces of blue stripes when they designed the Israel's flag and they decided to draw a Magen David in the middle of them, with no hidden agenda; right? WRONG. 

Mr. benross

You note[I don't agree with that concept at all. First, Israel is not looking for hegemony.]

Can you elaborate then why is it that Israel is not moving back to agreed 1967 boarders? And can you also explain the correlation between lets say building settlements and increased violence from both sides?

Security has become a excuse for Israeli policy to maintain the occupied lands, build e ghetto in Gaza strip and creation of apartheid state. 

When President Jimmy Carter in his book [Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid] exposes  Israel policy in Gaza: the enforced segregation, abject humiliation and spiraling Israeli violence against Palestinians
which have been detailed in the Israeli and European press and, with remarkable consistency, by all the major human rights organizations, he was labeled a anti Semite in order to shut him up. Same faith was waiting for Bishop Desmond Tutu, both Nobel peace prize winners.

This is not seeking security, this is deliberate and long term plan of genocide and barbarism.

-YT 

Despite the old friendship

Despite the old friendship between both nations of Israel and Persia, it is quite possible that the governement of Israel (ISR), would still judge the nation of Iran a threat to her hegemony in ME. 

I don't agree with that concept at all. First, Israel is not looking for hegemony. It is looking for security, and she gets it with full force. Because, the region doesn't let her any other option. Secular discourse is absent. It is inconceivable to look at Israel as a hegemonist power. Israel is located in a hostile region, the best she can hope for is to change hostility toward tolerance. Those who perceive Israel behavior as hegemonist, it's because deep inside they have not conceded to tolerance. That's the truth of the matter. Anything else is just rhetoric.

So obviously Israel feels threatened. Not for her 'hegemony' but for her existence. To me Israel is a friend, as a people and as a state. It is not an issue for me or Iran and that's the end of it. If Iran becomes a secular democracy and a great economic competitor to Israel for the regional market, Israel would be the happiest country on earth!

Yes hurry

hurry hurry before the iranians get the nuke hurry please. netanyaboo is worried sick guys.
hmmm, is the scarecrow here more worried about iran's future or the israeli position?
makes one wonder.

Benross

I have some good Ashkenazi friends... I think that the fact that we should change our mentalities and be more open minded has nothing to do with what we were saying here. In my first post I said:

Despite the old friendship between both nations of Israel and Persia, it is quite possible that the governement of Israel (ISR), would still judge the nation of Iran a threat to her hegemony in ME.
And most friends didn’t cry on the first phrase, so I suppose they were OK with it.

Benross, Let's change ourselves!

I agree.  I mostly agree with you that we should look at ourselves instead of projecting outside and hating - including 'hating Islam' ;)  I too cringed seeing the term Paki.  We need to be less black and white and more discerning, such as distinguishing between Israel and Jews.  No-one here said that "Jews" were "inherently Iran's enemy".  It was said that Israel's hegemonic ambitions and interests have shown to be determining its foreign policy.  Not all Jews are Israelis!  And we must differentiate between Israeli citizens and Israeli state, although it is said that Israeli government is more democratic and representative of its population than the theocracy in Iran ;)

benross:That is precisely

benross:That is precisely the response I was trying to elicit. Thank you for elaborating on what was implied in my sort of rhetorical question.

Robert Baer basically called

Robert Baer basically called Iranian hegemonic superamacist, and he is not a neocon, warmonger.

Now, what to do to change this perception on both sides??

I'd say let's change ourselves a bit. They are mostly right!

Don't you see, when we don't fight over supremacy over each-other (the leadership fiasco), we fight over supremacy over others. There is comments here that call Pakistanies as 'Pakies'. Jews are inherently Iran's enemy! We have no guts to hate Islam, we hate Arabs instead! We are not even friendly with different Iranian ethnic groups. Don't you think they see it?!

Fouzul Bashi jan,

I didn't take your comment as a contradiction. I respect your thoughts and those of my Hamvatans - inspiring for a free Iran - even though I may not agree with them. We are different parts of the same entity and we shall believe on each other.

Mokhlessaneh. Agar yek khordeh digeh ehssassati sham, yek she'ri migam ;)

Fred's Scripted blogs

//www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica...

Excerpts

The Israelis are following the template of the Bush administration's
run-up to the Iraq war. First, the US government advocated half-hearted
efforts at diplomatic engagement. Then it ratcheted up pressure through
sanctions and UN resolutions. That is where the Israeli campaign stands
now.

Aipac's members carried a unified message to Capitol Hill during their lobbying of US senators and members of Congress. They demanded that Congress pass the most draconian sanctions ever proposed against Iran. They demanded that Iran be offered a
limited time in which to respond to an ultimatum insisting it drop its
nuclear programme.

--------------

-YT 

Haj miniator, ma mokhlesim ;)

That wasn't in a way of disagreement.  It was adding some more meet to the haleem, so to speak.  The enmity was with the Shah AND the nation.  The only binding principle: the trouble maker's own hegemonic interests.  I totally agree with you and mokhles shoma ham hastim ;)

Shah and AIPAC (dedicated to Hajminator)

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kySR3fpa5s

anonym7 ... Wow

Mokhlessim, doost esfehani aziz man.

Thanks for the source and your insight.

vildemose

Thanks for the reply. Politically speaking, I believe just in one thing; and that's the greatness, the freedom and the independence of Iran that people will now gain by their own.


I really do believe on that.

Hajminator azeez

Firstly, good to see you back (I used to be anonym7). ... and yes I strongly believe you are right ... we can see that clearly in Shah's interview with Mike Wallace (60 minutes). Israelies/U.S want an Iran that they dominate .... no matter who is in charge.

Hajm: No, I don't know you...

Hajm: No, I don't know you...

Fozul Bashi,

After he leaved Iran, Shah said that he didn't understand why, despite his friendship with Israel - He was the first leader of a Muslim country who recognized Israel - Israelis helped in his fall. That is a fact and one should be blind or amnesic to forget historical facts.

Vildemose you say To all the regime apologists and fake reformers ...
Are you talking to me? or is it the constant rambling virus that you've caught on this site?

To all the regime apologists

To all the regime apologists and fake reformers: You are complicit in these crimes. You may as well have wielded the truncheons and batons. You may as well have pulled the triggers.

You have no moral highground over AIPAC or Fred.

haj miniator, Shabak yaadeteh?!

You are right that the hostilities of Israel towards the NATION of Iran precedes the mullahs, haji joon.  Israeli secret service, Shabak, trained the notorious SAVAK under the Shah, in the art of espionage, infiltration of the domestic opposition, and yes, TORTURE!  

Robert Baer basically

Robert Baer basically called Iraninan hegemonic superamacist, and he is not a neocon, warmonger.

The problem is that the Israelis and the West view Iranians as hegemonic too.  Robert Baer interview: MUST SEE VIDEO!

 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XoUX1rgV2M&feature=player_embedded

Now, what to do to change this perception on both sides??

Fred an innocent open question for you:

After unseating mullahs (IRR) from power, the day will come when Iranians will take their fate into their own hands. But, despite the old friendship between both nations of Israel and Persia, it is quite possible that the governement of Israel (ISR), would still judge the nation of Iran a threat to her hegemony in ME. And, it is likely that she continues her hostilities toward the nation of Iran - as she also did with the former Shah - using lobbies like AIPAC to spread propaganda against us.

My simple question is what will you do then?

Fred: I couldn't agree

Fred: I couldn't agree more. How long did Stalin remain in power? As long as there were enough orcs in the USSR to murder for him? As long as people in the USSR were afraid of Stalin’s orcs? It’s like asking the same question about the length of a piece of string. Time will tell. The regime understands the level of popular discontent with the regime and believes that by ramping up the terror level [thousands will be put to death by the regime's orcs in the next few months], its longetivity will be guaranteed. Of course, the opposite always proves to the be case when dictatorships rely on terror to rule.

Translation

Before it is too late and nuke acquiring IRR imposes a devastating war on the captive Iranians and the region, in tandem with airtight sanctions the sane world has to unremittingly support Iranian people with moral and material help to topple the unreformable Islamist menace.

Dear America, The ISR, Israeli State of Racism, has had a monopoly of power in the Middle East and has been a big beneficiary of tax payer gifts, US military spending, and protection. It has been able to operate as a nuclear colonoial lapdog for 60 years now. Come on man, don't ruin it for us, we got a good thing going here. Don't allow any balance of power, rights or dignity, just because some other people think they are human too!!! Please cough up a few $Billion in "material support" so we can retun Iran to "democracy" like all the other "non rapist" friendly states in the region that give us no trouble! So we can continue to operate with impunity.

Hurry! We don't have much time. Act before even the democracy excuse goes away through internal means!