Should Iranians Ask for Help?

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Should Iranians Ask for Help?
by Faramarz
25-Dec-2011
 

بیگانه گریزی و بیگانه هراسی

Recently, and after Ghadhafy’s demise and amid Assad’s troubles, I have noticed an increase in the number of comments stating that, “we should not ask the west for help or we don’t want to be anybody’s bitch or we don’t need a Chalabi, Alavi or Halabi.”

While I do agree with the spirit of these comments, I am a firm believer that in the proper time and under certain conditions, if the choice in front of the Iranian people is to choose between the Regime staying in power through brute force for many more years or asking for assistance from the outside world, I would vote for asking for help. But at the same time, I am not saying “burn the village to save the village.” So let’s not go there.

I know that foreigners don’t have our best interest in mind and if we allow them they will screw us royally, but that’s where we need to be clever and vigilant. After all, do we blame Canada for allowing the guy who stole $3 billion and took residency there or do we blame the Regime and the thief himself? How about China, Russia and other countries that pay bribes to the Regime officials to get oil and gas contracts and deposit money in their Swiss bank accounts? It takes two to tango and in every fraud case there is an Iranian involved.

To those who make a case against foreign involvement in our present or future affairs, I ask a simple question. Do you make your own bread, grow your own vegetables, service your own car and, cut your own hair? Of course not, you let someone else do it. But do you give them your wallet and tell them “take as much as you need.” Of course not.

Finally, for some of us it is ok for Iranian protestors to use American-made products and services like Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft and a whole bunch of other ones, but it is not ok to have a business relationship with others like Chevron. Do you see the irony in this?

At the end, I believe that we are more afraid of ourselves than of them. Perhaps we are like some of our dates (significant others) who think that if they have one more drink, they may do something that they may regret tomorrow!

That takes all the fun out of life!

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more from Faramarz
 
Sadegh Bozorgmehr

Two Kinds of People want this "Help"

by Sadegh Bozorgmehr on

First, it is groups like the Mojaheds and increasingly some Shahis who know they have no base of support in Iran, and hope that through this "help" they can strong-arm their way to power in Iran.

Second, there are those who have no faith in the Iranian people. These people, too, believe in imposing change from without.

 


Joubin

Subpar and downright dishonest service ...

by Joubin on

"To those who make a case against foreign involvement in our present or future affairs, I ask a simple question. Do you make your own bread, grow your own vegetables, service your own car and, cut your own hair? Of course not, you let someone else do it. But do you give them your wallet and tell them “take as much as you need.” Of course not."

No, but at the same time, if I consistently get food poisoning at an eating establishment, it would be rather stupid to keep going back and asking for more of the same.  (Unless you are a masochist. In which case, sure, keep going back for more.)

IRI is a creature of the Globalists of the West.  Its purpose is to "integrate" Iran into the globalist supra-national system and kill off the Iran Zameen meme once and for all.  Our late Great Shah was (a) incapable of the first and (b) would say to the former "over my dead body" and now he is in Cairo buried with Pharaohs.

Pay close attention to the "reform" wing of the Qom Inc:  they love the UN and are entirely on board with the Glorious Path Forward ... it is the same global gang.  Pay attention.

Further note that they could have trivially removed the regime YEARS AGO simply by denying them refined petroleum products that they are incapable (or some say unwilling) to produce internally. The West also has been quite busy removing hostile regimes bordering Iran and making IRI a player.  My Martian friends tell me that per their POV, from Mars, it sure looks like USA/NATO are allies and China is in for a big "supplies, supplies!" at some point (not too far ahead) in the future ... 

Here we partition a set for the Fully Attentive:

{China, India, Korea, Brazil, "southern" Europe}

{Germany, Japan, Iran, United States of America} 

 


Shazde Asdola Mirza

Iranians need all the help they can find, against evil IRI

by Shazde Asdola Mirza on

Faramarz jan,

Great blog, as usual ... to the point and logical.

Happy new year!


Arj

Re the U.S. lessons

by Arj on

Dear OY, in that case my version of your statement would be; last time U.S. invaded Afghanistan and Iraq without considering the public opinions of Afghani and Iraqi people, but now in retrospect, it'd better do, and it does!

However, don't take my ardent stand with regards to war as a support of any kind for IRI. On the contrary, I believe IRI would be gone without a war more quickly -- or should I say less slowly-- than with a military action! The only way that a military action could have an instant effect, would be an all out war (invasion/ocuupation) which no one is ready for under the current circumstances.

Considering the prospect of devastation and disintegration of our country in addition to numerous other risks involved, I prefer the certainty of comprehensive sanctions that exert paralyzing effects on IRI, hence expediting its downfall. Even IRI's own reactions (despite the display of apathy and indifference) to the prospects of universal sanctions refelects its fear of such possibilities. Indeed, IRI's latest threat of blocking the Strait of Hormuz is a clear indication of its fear of sanctions, particularly since it's in reaction to the mere threat of tightening sanction -- since there are no threats of war yet -- showing its prefernce to face a military attack rather than suffer a certain death under constrictive sanctions!

P.S. I'm happy to see that my internet title/handle bring some lightness of heart to the otherwise vitriolic atmposphere here! But sorry to dissapoint you, no relation to the Arj factory! FYI, my handle is an abreviation of my first and last names.

 


Esfand Aashena

مرگ بر دیکتاتور!

Esfand Aashena


Faramarz jaan "marg bar amrika!" is so 1979!  I'm only complaining about a war in Iran which will make us complain that much more!  

The Arj coolers are still working because the owners "think" they're still working!  The cooler blows dust and rust into the living room and it's still warm enough inside so they use a hand fan yet they won't buy a new air conditioner! 

On the outside the cooler leaks all over the roof or porch but they don't see that as a problem! 

Everything is sacred


Faramarz

You See Esfand Jaan

by Faramarz on

Here is the problem with us Iranians.

We complain about this and that but never appreciate the good things!

Those Arj Coolers are still working, so do the F-4, F-5, F-14, C-130, Boeing 727, 747 and a whole bunch of other things from that bygone era and we still say "Marg bar Amrika!"


Esfand Aashena

با دلاری ۱۵۵۰ تومن کولر دونه‌ای ۱۳۰ تا ۲۰۰ دلار!

Esfand Aashena


$130 - $200 at 1550 Toman is still a lot of money for water cooled air conditioners, isn't it?!  BTW those coolers are still working in Iran!  I am not kidding.  They just change the "hay" (pooshal) and they keep going!

They are full of dust and rust but they don't throw them out!  There have been some LG brand (refrigerant) filled air conditioning that many use now but you still see the ugly sight of those 70s era air conditioners rusting all over Tehran! 

Everything is sacred


Faramarz

کولر ارج

Faramarz


We were so tough back then!

We had to deal with locked Arj refrigerators, locked living room door where all the sweets were kept and sitting on those cold metallic Arj folding chairs at Amjadieh Stadium!


Oon Yaroo

Arj Jaan, Here you go! Friends of Arj!

by Oon Yaroo on

You should be proud!


Esfand Aashena

You can still buy Arj products online from Tehran!

by Esfand Aashena on

Don't say they don't offer online shopping!  Whoever likes the Arj logo much can use it for his/her avatar!

http://english.tehrankala.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=26 

Everything is sacred


Roozbeh_Gilani

Nothing wrong with the Arj original products...

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

My parents bought a  arj yakhchal , when I was only 5 years old (that's a long time ago...), with a lock on it to prevent me and my brothers from raiding the goodies inside, and it is still going. Although at times it sounds a bit like my dad's old peykan on it's way to shomal, going uphill...

Really, and seriously we used to make some good stuff in our country at one time, alas, until RP came along and spoiled it all for the rest of us....

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Oon Yaroo

Faramarz, you remember it too!?

by Oon Yaroo on

I think Oostad Arj should be proud of his handle/nick name be on one of the most popular product lines of Khoda-Beyamorz Shah's era!

Zendeh Bad Arj!


Faramarz

میز و صندلی ارج

Faramarz


The other Arj product that was popular back in the day was the folding chair. Here is a picture.

http://www.coscoproducts.com/eng/CoscoProductsFile...

 


Oon Yaroo

Arj Jan: Sorry but no offense intended to be made in

by Oon Yaroo on

reference to your name and Arj Abbgarmkon! It was just a nostalgic flashback!

As for the invader/invadee, you are absolutely right! US has been learning and I am sure it will modify/adjust/fine-tune its approach vis-a-vis IRR!

BTW, Hey Yaroo is kinda redundent. Yaroo itself implicitly means hey! :-))

Happy new year!


Arj

Hey Yaroo!

by Arj on

Oon Yaroo, first of all, what does anybody's title/handle have to do with what he/she has to say?! Secondly, you have made the case against your own claims by stressing on the lack of foresight and cnosensus building -- both among the invaded/occupied people and also among the local/global powers who could be potential allies -- prior to taking military action!

You are proving my point with regards to importance of the nature of the reactions of the target populations to a potential military action, in addition to the reactions of international community as well as the nature of the miltary action! In case of Libya, the U.S. seems to have learned its lessons from OEF and OIF, hence taken the above measures into consideration! 

P.S. Any realtions to the famous Oon Yaroo?!! J.K. :)


Oon Yaroo

Arj Jan, Arj Yakhchal-Abbgarmkon-Ojagh Factory

by Oon Yaroo on

The aftermath (i.e., calmness vs chaoticness) of any military conflict/invasion depends on (2) two factors!

1) The meddling around by the rival powers through their proxies in the affairs of the invaded country,

2) The willingness of the critical mass of the invadee nation to cooperate with the new law and order imposed upon them by the invader forces!

In both Afghanistan and Iraq both of the above factors played crucial role in their current state of affairs!

In the case of Afghanistan Russia, China, the Brits, India, and others have been meddling around through their proxies Pakistan and IRR. Afghan citizens are not exactly the most approachable and flexible folks on the planet to adopt new ideas. So, both (1) and (2) have not not been fully satisfied.

In the case of Iraq, again rival powers have been meddling around with the what the US has been trying to do there. Of course, the animosity amongst the Iraqis has been more of a hindrance than help in getting their ways paved for a better future. Again, both (1) and (2) have been violated!

That's my logic as to how an invadee can lose-lose when it's been invaded! The 1st loss because it got invaded and the 2nd loss because it was not fully reconstructed after invasion.

Of course, there are several examples of lose-win situation for an invadee (e.g., Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, etc.)

BTW Arj Jaan, your name reminds me of the Arj Yakhchal-Abbgarmkon-Ojagh Factory in the middle of Tehran-Karadj road. I remember as a kid with my grandmother taking Ottboos Vahed from Tehran to Karaj stopping at the factory! Any relation between you and the Factory owner!? 


Arj

Re U.S. invasions

by Arj on

Dear Oon Yaroo, that is why the U.S. has miserably failed in both cases! Iraq is stuck in sectarian war and is on its way to be partitioned into three separate pieces, and the Karzai government in Afghanistan is seeking a way to share power with Taliban -- just this last week it has agreed (obviously with the U.S. green light) with Taliban opening a consulate/political-office in Qatar!

However, in a stark contrast, in Libya, where the situation was measured more carefully and U.S. refrained from a unilateral military action, things don't seem as gloomy!


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Dear Vildermose

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Dear Faramarz: The problem is some people just don't want this regime to bet toppled internally or from outside...the rest is nothing but ...

I think you put your finger on it. I don't want to accuse anyone because there are sincere people. I know that because I fell for it myself for a while. They play to whatever our weakness it to get us to side with them.

Maybe patriotism; mistrust of West or whatever. But goal is always to keep the regime in power. The same game is played on liberal in the West. Their best intentions are used to prop the regime. Including "polls" showing AN popular.

I don't know who is truthful and who is not on IC. IRI propaganda may come disguised as any position. But they all have one thing in common. They fiercely reject any attempt to get rid of the Islamic Regime.


Oon Yaroo

Faramarz, Lucile is coming out!:-)))))))))))))))))

by Oon Yaroo on

Last time US decided to remove Taliban/AlQuida in Afghanistan and Sad'dam in Iraq it did not go to Iraq.com and Afghanistan.co to get permission from Afghans and Iraqis to invade or not to invade.

It took military actions against these two OUTLAW countries for two reasons:

1) The criminal regimes had not left any other alternative for a peaceful regime change,

2) The people of these two countries were incapable and didn't have the means and tools to dislodge their regimes.

I bet my bottom $ that the next time (i.e., in the case of IRR) US is not going to ask Iranians or the Iranian.com community to take military action against the criminal IRR for the two reasons mentioned above.

Now, Lucile is coming out!


vildemose

Dear Faramarz: The problem

by vildemose on

Dear Faramarz: The problem is some people just don't want this regime to bet toppled internally or from outside...the rest is nothing but malarkey,  insincere foolish talk thinly veiled in "humor".

 A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.


Esfand Aashena

Faramarz jaan how about the attached letter?!

by Esfand Aashena on

I Faramarz Famili, one of the original founders of iranian.com who founded this website while surfing the pictures on usernet, do hereby swear under penalty of purjury that I am not sure if a war in Iran is good or bad!

On one hand it is good because the IRI oh that IRI that the majority of Iranian shouldn't have brought to power in the first place will be gone but on the other hand we may end up with another regime that shouldn't be brought to power either!

I am also not sure if bombings inside Iranian borders that destroys "something" benefits Iranian people as in the end they are the property of Iran and I don't like destruction of lives and properties.

So with all of that in mind I am signing this confession letter and belog it on iranian.com at my own free will and in a free society.  Those who do not get me have major issues and are none of my concern!

_____________________ 

Faramarz Famili 

Everything is sacred


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Simorgh

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Military action is a very risky thing and better be well thought out. I do not think anyone has done this but maybe I am wrong so I ask you. What is the goal of military action right now?

  • Is it to overthrow the IRI. If so who replaces it.
  • Is it to stop the nuclear thing. I don't think it will work.
  • Is it to help an existing movement. If so what is the movement.

Of the above three only the third one makes any sense to me. For it to work there must be an existing freedom movement. But as you said IRI destroyed or pushed the 2009 movement into hiding.

I think it is premature now. You first need an organized popular movement both inside and outside Iran. You need a "Government in Exile". You need people in the streets protesting. Then if IRI attacks them they would ask for help. But just going in guns blazing is very dangerous. The only way it would work is full occupation. I don't think Americans are willing to do that. Nor would Iranians welcome it. Right now I want to see RP put together "Government In Exile". Then let the rest evolve. Give the sanctions time to work. IRI support will drop as sanctions take a bite. If IRI goes violent against people then call in the cavalry in form of air support. War is a bad thing and to be avoided if at all possible.


Faramarz

Esfand Jaan

by Faramarz on

You can write my confession letter, but that doesn’t mean that I will sign it and read it here on Iranian.com.


Simorgh5555

Esfand Yes, the Iranians

by Simorgh5555 on

Esfand

Yes, the Iranians people were able to rise up and overthrow their government such as in 1979 but that was because the shah resisted the advice from some of his most senior generals to unleash the full might of his military ower. You give the Iranian people too much credit.
The IR occupiers learnt from this mistake and destroyed the entire mass movement of 2009 which was a revolution in the making. Even Mirhussein Mousavi, the loser reformist had to admit that the violence perpetrated by the IR surpassed that which he witnessed under the Shah.
'One day' is a very long time. But Iran does not have a choice at the moment. The country is already on the path to destruction. If this conversation were to take place 20 years ago I would agree with you and put my faith in the reformists to change the system from within. We've been through that. Tried it. And the result was an abject failure. We made it out of the hell hole known as the Islamic Republic now spare a tbought for the remaining of 65 million who do not have the freedom which you and I take for granted.
PLEASE SUPPORT MILITARY ACTION. IT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION. FREE IRAN.


Esfand Aashena

Faramarz jaan you're saying the same things as those u criticize

by Esfand Aashena on

Faramarz jaan if it quacks like a duck it probably is a duck!  So many have come to the same conclusion that in essence you're asking for war to overthrow the Islamic Republic and you say as god as your witness that's not what you're saying?!  Is that the it's not you it's me routine?!

So let's follow your logic of what I think you're saying now.  You're saying the next time Iranian people come to the streets and face the brutality of the Islamic Republic they should not be ashamed to "ask for help".

Well my friend that's what they did last time in 2009 and that is what they're going to do again next time.  Last time many rallied to their defense and protests were staged worldwide.  Obama sent his support too though some say it was not "enough".  Iranian themselves (as secular and open minded they claim to be outside Iran) couldn't bring themselves to not bring various flags to the demonstrations of support, so what "more" is expected of the foreign "help"?

Many claim and I certainly agree that the Iranian protests in 2009 was actually the start for the Arab Spring.

So Iranians "ask for help", what then?  There are two ways to help, one is to show your support as much as you want minus the foreign military intervention and other option is support plus the foreign military intervention.  I am for the "minus" foreign military intervention.  I can write a whole lot about it but just to save time I choose the first option.  Now you either choose the first option or second.  It's not complicated.

In one of your comments to me you mentioned that as part of the process UN could send observers to Iran like the Arab League observers in Syria.  Well we don't have a "Persian League" that could send observers and UN observers will be much harder to get.  Right now we have only one UN Human Rights observer and not much is being heard from him, though I hope more will be heard.

Now as far as "observers" there was an iwitness report on evening news last night that some were recording some clips from the 70,000 demonstrations and Syrians "showing" the observers the regime thugs and tanks and also the bullet fire heard in the background.  Sort of what you're saying about "asking for help".  The observer refused to even move and wanted to actually go behind the scene and get away from it all!  So much for the observers!  Flee asap!

The time will come and the Iranian people will overthrow this Government.  They have done it in the past while others were asking for foreign involvement and foreign involvement has actually been part of our history forever, and they will do it again.  It's a tough and dirty business but it can be done without foreign military intervention.  Especially it can be done in Iran since it has been done before.  There was no BenAli MenAli when Iranians took to the streets!

Just say no to foreign military intervention in Iran.   

Everything is sacred


Faramarz

Oon Yaroo

by Faramarz on

That's a great line, but the best clip of the movie is the car washing scene.

It is kind of like Iranian.com on a busy day. The boys are heads down blogging, commenting and arguing, and then come Lucile!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veCZvM6-okQ


Oon Yaroo

Faramarz, this is why you are the most popular man on IC!

by Oon Yaroo on

You know your $&it so to speak. You just quoted one of the most famous movie lines ever!

I would love to hear it from you with a southern accent, " What we have got here is failure to communicate!"

I assume you remember that the prison warden assistant (the guy with reflective sun glasses) shot Luke (Paul Newmann,  RIP)!

I nominate you to be the prison warden of IC DOT COM!

Teach these Islamic hooligans the proper way of communications!

God Bless warden Faramarz!


vildemose

 Dear Faramarz: Some

by vildemose on

 Dear Faramarz: Some people just don't like to read. But they love to lecture even if their entire premise is based on NOT READING...Por harfan...

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.


Faramarz

As God as My Witness

by Faramarz on

 

I never said any of the things that are being attributed to me.

I raise my right hand and swear that “I never said that today Iranians should ask America to invade Iran, destroy and loot the place, put a puppet government in place of the Regime and plunder all the oil and the other natural resources of the country.”

So help me god.


The entire premise of this blog was that, at the proper time (future, not today) and under the right conditions (protesters on the streets, they are not there today, sanctions crippling the Regime, not yet, Regime murdering people, not at the massacre levels yet) is it appropriate to ask for help and what should be the nature of that assistance?

Also, I made the point that dealing with Americans and westerners should not be a taboo (the majority of the people in my neighborhood, my work and around me are Americans and we get along just fine.)

 

 

“What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

-Warden in the movie Cool Hand Luke


BacheShirazi

adding some more

by BacheShirazi on

Also note that my previous comment says nothing about how complicated it would be. It's not just a matter of asking for help, the issue is very complex.