فقط یک پرسش از طرفداران و توجیه کنندگان رژیم

فقط یک پرسش  از طرفداران و توجیه کنندگان رژیم
by David ET

 توجیحتان چیست ؟

در ضمن قابل یاد آوریست که این عمل به نام خدا انجام میشود




more from David ET

David ET

by jamshid on

"those among us who have more of leader quality should stop writing or giving speeches only but to become more politically active by organizing self and others."

Exactly my point all along! I look forward to your blog on this important issue. It will be a good continuation for the series of blog that you have recently written.

P.S. I didn't mean to divert the subject of this blog. But seeing the photo of this poor beaten Iranian made me so angry, but this time somehow the anger was more directed toward myself and others here abroad. However, I let the regime enablers deal with the ugly truth of they are about.

David ET


by David ET on

Once again I do agree with the principle of what you are saying including organizing which is what I have been promoting.

Yet I am only referring you to the fact about Iranians (and many others) as you mentioned. Iranians (except those outside) do not live in democracy and their organizational efforts will be very limited due to government crackdowns. Also those outside have own limitations for being oustide.

So we also should be aware of the REALITY. I am obviously not proposing waiting for a leader or inventing one but simply stating that those leaders (that we do not have) or those among us who have more of leader quality should stop writing or giving speeches only but to become more politically active by organizing self and others.

and indeed that starts with everyone of us to use our own leadership qualities within own networks.

there are more to this that I will address at a different time and place 


David ET

by jamshid on

"in the real world... people tend to follow names or at least stamp pf approval by known individuals OR they want to see a champion in action"

This has nothing to do with the real world, or even if it does, it is true only to a certain degree. This has more to do with our Iranian behavior and attitude.

If we believed in our own selves, we could declare that we are set and determined to change these trends" We want a leader because we subconsciously find ourselve to be incompetent.

"there are plenty of "assasneme's" around.

Exactly! but they are not along with meaningful live activities, or with recruitment schemes, or with any thing that constitutes "coordinated and organized grass root actionful efforts." An assaass naameh without an action plan, without recruitment schemes and without execution of the plan is worthless

"People do not necessarily follow political parties or their assasname but charismatic individuals who promote them. "

No! It could be the reverse too. If a people are strong and believe in their own selves and are active, they can force the leaders to follow the people's wishes and the trends the people have set.

We need to change our attitude. We need to look in the horizons for new ways and new approaches. We need to start with our own selves.

"IF"(and that's a big if) we had a charismatic leader among us, then I would agree with you. Ganji or Ebadi can't be that leader. Reza Pahlavi can't either. I certainly know that Mousavi can't either. So who else then? Who will be that leader? I have a very good answer for this question:

Let's keep trying to find that leader while waiting for another 30 years, maybe by then we have finally gotten ourselves a true leader.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." Albert Einstein

"Intelligence is the ablity to adapt to change." Stephen Hawking



by jamshid on

"The difference is that you are talking about organization/actions within one group"

No, I am not talking about one group. I am talking about diverse people spending part of their time for a common cause. This includes republicans, monarchists, jebehye melli, religious, non-religious, those without any affiliation, togehter doing meaninful activities with poltical goals that are around our common interests.

If this could expand, it could become a building block for unity.

"consider that even amongst secularists, there are several groups that hardly interact and instead look from a distance... People do not necessarily follow political parties or their assasname but charismatic individuals who promote them.""

We don't need to follow our current leaders or goups. Our leaders must follow "us" and the trends that "we" set. Both "us" and our leaders have been incompetent thusfar. We don't have control over individual leaders, but we do have control over "us" and setting trends that would force current leaders to shape up their approaches.

So let's stop looking for a "famous someone" and start with "us". Let's believe and have faith in "us" and our abilities to shape leaders.

We need to change our attitude and approach.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." Albert Einstein

David ET


by David ET on

Although theoretically what you are saying makes a lot of sense and I do not oppose it and actually have been promoting same idea for years , but in the real world I also have experienced that people tend to follow names or at least stamp pf approval by known individuals OR they want to see a champion in action for the organizations otherwise there are plenty of "assasneme's" around.

The Iranian Solidarity Declaration and the Secular Constitution and formation of Iran Secular were also efforts along this path ... but I promise if a famous individual was behind it, it would have spread fast... 

There are things that we wish and there are realities of society and that is how western political campaigns become successful . People do not necessarily follow political parties or their assasname but charismatic individuals who promote them.



Jamshid - difference is action within or amongst groups

by MM on

I did read your comment.  The difference is that you are talking about organization/actions within one group, but I am talking about coordination of all opposition groups.  Both are valid points, but consider that even amongst secularists, there are several groups that hardly interact and instead look from a distance.  I just think that by more coordinated actions/protests/declarations we will get more bang for the buck and even attract the attention of Iranians inside.

As you said, it is the Iranian nature to be more courdial in person.  So, by bringing everyone together in a neutral corner, having a host that everyone respects and talking about commonalities and a course of action will break the ice amongst different factions, and maybe even encourage us to choose either a leader or an action committee to coordinate the activities of all opposing groups in the same direction.  The action points you mentioned can be done in a much larger scale if done amongst a united opposition inside and outside Iran.


David ET

by jamshid on

"Organizations without effective leadership will be hard to expand.."

I disagree with you David. In the same way that I believe organization is the prerequisite to unity, I believe it is also the prerequisite for the emergence of effective leaders.

What has stopped us so far is the belief in the reverse, that we first need to unite, then organize around that unity. Or first find a leader, and then organize around him.

We need to shed this behavior. We need to organize, first in order to pave the way for unity, through actions instead of words. Actions are psychologically more potent and contagious than words, even more so among Iranians. And second, organization creates a factory from which effective leaders (in different areas) could emerge.

Also, the pioneers of "organization" need NOT also be the future leaders, as these are two different things requiring different talents.

It is unfortunate that our best organizers are Islamists (including reformists.) It was as a result of their organizers' efforts that at last a leader from among them emerged in form of Khomeini. It was not the other way around. The leader emerged only after sufficient momentum was gained thanks to the organizers' efforts. Please think about this for a moment.

We are trying to jump to unity or jump to having a leader without having done our homework, i.e., organizing and engaging in serious and meaningful activities.

One could ask then, what are the first steps for organizing?

I think first we'll need an "assaas naameh" written around our common interests. It would clearly describe the purpose, the goals, type of activities and limitations. Next, there should be some brainstorming in public. Next, we'll need a few good and dedicated men and women. Just a few will do at first. Then some incremental and realistic planning. Next is the step by step execution of the plan, and lastly recruiting and involving more people.

I guarantee you that once launched, the rest would flow and grow by itself. There are so many Iranians who are more than willing to spare some of their time for Iran's cause. But they don't know where or how. Their time, even if it's only a few hours per week, is a valuable assest that is being wasted day after day.

It is our brains and assests against IRI's brains and assets, and we are not using our brains nor our assets much, while they are using theirs to its fullest. That's why with all their backwarded views, they still manage to be one step ahead of us.

David ET


by David ET on

You have an excellent point that also requires more discussion. I have been wanting to write about this in more detail, just havent had the chance. The issue with many is that they have turned to writers, speech givers, etc etc and we do have lack of leaders or those who have such interest or willingness or potential.

Organizations without effective leadership will be hard to expand..



by jamshid on

MM, you missed my point all together. I wonder if you even read the whole thing.

I am saying that in order for #1 (Unification of Oppostion) to be realized, we must first do #0, which is to organize. But you are saying the reverse, that in order to organize, we must first unite.

In my opinion, it is organization and activities around common goals that would bring unity. Unity is not the first step, rather it is what follows.

The main reaon why we have failed to create a successful unity all these year is that we have missed this important fact.

I read your blog. In my opinion, what you suggest in there (Ganji or Shirin Ebadi as a moderator, etc.) won't be able to realize unity.

The sum of the "coordinated activities" of just a few people who are not even known to the public can be a lot more constructive towards unity than reliance on one person, be it Ebadi, or Reza Pahlavi or whoever else.

We ourselves are the Simorgh. We only need to roll up our sleeves and get into the act of organizing with whatever is currently available.


Jamshid - "Bring Democracy to Iran" meeting - take a look

by MM on

 I agree with your point.  Take a look at "Practical path towards democracy" at //iranian.com/main/blog/mm/practical-path-towards-democracy. In this blog, we discussed a 4-point plan to reach demmocracy in Iran consisting of:

1. Unification of Opposition: ...........

2. Pressure on IRI via ......:

3. Increase in violence: ...........

4. Referendum:...........

As part of the blog disscusion, there was a call for a meeting of the opposition, in a neutral corner, moderated by respected Iranian activists like Shadi Sadr, Akbar Ganji or Shirin Ebadi called "Bring Democracy to Iran" meeting.


MM (and David ET)

by jamshid on

MM, I agree with you in principle, that we must focus on our common goals. But we must also ask ourselves, why this method has not worked for the past three decades to bring the oppostion together?

How many declarations and bullet lists of common goals have you read in the past 30 years? How many actually created unity?

So one could ask, what difference does it make if today we continue discussing yet another bullet list of common goals?

What is the missing piece? What is the missing catalyst that prevents an actual chemical reaction to form despite having all the necessary ingridients? What is the one thing that has stopped us from creating a worthy and reckoning force, at least in exile where we are safe from IRI's brutalities?

In my opinion, the answer is only one thing: Lack of organization which leads to lack of meaningful activities, which in turn leads to failure in creating any meaningful momentum.

We Iranians will always continue with our bickerings about our differences. This will not stop. I think we are at a point where we should put a stop on creating or discussing common goals. We must leave those goals out there for people to see, but we must not discuss or analyze them any further. Instead, we must move on to the next steps.

The next steps are organizing, organizing and more organizing. Unfortunately, we don't have a grass root organization in exile. I don't believe in the abilities of either Reza Pahlavi or various factions of Jebehye Melli or Republicans to organize. I find most of them to be untalented, uncreative and unimaginitive. They are all fossils repeating the same old.

Therefore, I believe that from this moment forward, the only topic of discussion among people like us should be "how can we successfully organize"? It should no longer be "what are our common goals", as we are done with that.

Organization requires both clear goals and the ability to recruit people and their time, and to engage them and their time in meaningful and coordinated activities. "Coordinated" is the key word, as it can double and triple the effect of the total sum of the individual efforts.

These coordinated efforts could involve tasks such as gathering and reporting of IRI's crimes, writing articles on the advantages of secularism, planning for protests in front of embassies of countries or headquarters of companies that are sympathic with the IRI (and sure, break some windows too), keeping in touch with activists in Iran and voicing their concerns, recruiting one or two economists to expose IRI's failed management of Iran's economy with actual undisputable numbers, working closely with human rights organizations, recuriting more people to join the efforts, demanding the freedom of poltical prisoners in every possbile way we can. The list can go on.

Again, the key here is to do these in a coordinated manner and towards clearly stated goals and around the already defined common goals. With time, it will gather momentum, and I believe it will do so exponentially.

One may ask, how can we start? I think the starting point is the write up of an "assaas naameh" that states the goals clearly and lays out a feasible incremental plan towards successful organization (saazmaan dehi). It must engage and challenge individuals who join with actually spending their available time doing meaningful work.

With time, this will augment our "common goals" and make them be heard even louder.

The observant and intelligent person would realize that the prerequisite of organizing is not unity. It is the other way around. Think about this one sentence, considering our Iranian behavior and way of thinking.

Would anyone care to expand on these thoughts?

We are the thirty birds (si morgh) looking for Simorgh, not realizing that we ourselves are the Simorgh.


Jamshid - we need to focus on common goals

by MM on

In the Diaspora as well as Iran, we have very devoted followers of alternative political systems.  In our discussions, we have a habit of framing the discussions in terms of a regime change, and regime change provokes a response ---> to what?  What usually follows is either a spitting contest (insults to the other side) or a pissing contest (my way is better) and the original content, i.e., IRI, is forgotten.

In my opinion, we need to find goals that encompoass several groups, such as democracy, human rights & separation of religion / government, rather than a regime change to monarchy, federalism or a republic......  And, leave the rest for the people of Iran to decide after various factions present their cases to the people in a referendum; a real referendum with democratic choices across the ballot.


David ET, I beg to differ

by jamshid on

The question shouldn't be addressed to regime supporters. Instead, it should be addressed to us the opposition.

What is our justification to be so divided, so weak and so disorganized despite having one common enemy that commits these herendous crimes against our people?


The IRI response? ----> Worked for Saddam

by MM on

The likely IRI response ---> This is the least we can do to you if you go against us.  Next time, you may not survive.

The above tactic worked for Saddam's secret police to make examples out of a few victims for the population to see, while the rest were executed.  Sounds too familiar!

My question is: How much brainwashing does a cult member need to go thru in order to do this torture and more, all in the name of god, probably while saying Allah-o Akbar, salavaat or some other .........


David jon

by Cost-of-Progress on

Just read the islamists repsonses in the prostitution blog and you'll know that even if they respond, which they won't, their response will be worthless and meaningless.

Here's the quote I posted in that blog which I post again here - I just love this quote as it is absolutely ture!

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's history may be the hijacking of morality by religion"

Sir Arthur C. Clarke (1917-2008)





Dear David ET

by amirkabear4u on

You should not expect a response from those foreigners who run Iran and their supporters who do not know about them.

By the way anyone can do anything in the name of god, maybe because god never says anything!!!!!!!!!!! 

Fairness and Equality in Justice