Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi Q&A With Iranians Inside & Outside Ian

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Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi Q&A With Iranians Inside & Outside Ian
by Darius Kadivar
07-May-2010
 

Questions & Answers With Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi at Beylux Chat Room With Iranians Inside & Outside of Iran. Broadcast By //epersianradio.com/

Part I:

Part II:

Part III:

Part IV:

Part V:

Part VI:

Part VII:

Part VIII:

Recommended Readings/watching:

REZA's CALL: An Iranian Solidarnosc... By Darius KADIVAR

RESPONDING TO REZA's CALL: An Iranian Solidarnosc in the Making ... by DK

IRANIAN SOLIDARNOSC: Defecting Revolutionary Guard's confession and support to Reza Pahlavi By DK

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more from Darius Kadivar
 
vildemose

Dear benross: You might be

by vildemose on

Dear benross: You might be right. Regardless of the labels the spirit of my argument will not change anything. I do believe there is too much hate on all sides; hence, disunity.


vildemose

Dear Benross: Going back to

by vildemose on

Dear Benross: Going back to our argument; namely, calling RP, "your majesty", I understand and hear exactly where you and RP coming from and your position to some extent is valid but highly anachronistic, elitists with a dash of  Schadenfreude.  I'm not an ideologue and can be swayed, if convinced, to call him "your majesty", but as I said before, he has a long a way to go to get my respect not only as a king but as a human being. I respect and admire both Pahlavis with all their flaws and have defended them when they are attacked unfairly. However, RP, cannot possibly expect my respect without first respecting himself by defending the legacy of his family publicly and accept some responsibilties for his father's misdeeds and mistakes. That is what a good son does. He has not done that. It's never too late though.


benross

Melli Mazhabi, Monarchists

by benross on

Melli Mazhabi, Monarchists and secularists. all have their own biases and all parties  need to learn to how to treat each other with respect. You can eliminate one another and call yourself democrats.

All those definitions are obsolete. Being a democrat starts with acknowledging this fact. Dear vildemose, those hatred machines didn't get us anywhere. The young generation is fully aware of that. We have a history of modernity with a historic document and a history of anti-modernity with a historic document. The historic choice is there. It's always been. RP is not defined by those obsolete definitions, but by this historic choice. 


MM

if you claim something, it is your job to reference it

by MM on

.


Cheyenne in Once Upon a Time

At least RP has the integrity to denounce

by Cheyenne in Once Upon a Time on

his father's regime to some extent! He has called for unity and cohesiveness against the criminal Islamic Regime Enterprise.

But what about all these left-over AN-tellectuals who blindly and ignorantly rallied behind Khomeini, Bazargan, Yazdi, and Ghotbzadeh, ....!? And 31 years later they have the audacity to spray French perfume on a pile of crap (e.g., Mousavi & ilk) and present it to us as a strawberry short cake!?

 

Baba khar kodetoneed! 

 


Mammad

Do your homework

by Mammad on

Do a Farsi Google search with "Mousavi, estefaa" and so on, and see what you find.

Mammad 


vildemose

Melli Mazhabi, Monarchists

by vildemose on

Melli Mazhabi, Monarchists and secularists. all have their own biases and all parties  need to learn to how to treat each other with respect. You can eliminate one another and call yourself democrats.


MM

Dear ALL, again, please indicate if you state opinion or fact

by MM on

For example, if you state that Mousavi wanted to resign, but Khomeini asked him to stay on  ---> what is the reference?

If you state an opinion, FINE, but do not consider it a fact and pooh-pooh the rest of the community for doubling you.

Thank you.


Mammad

Marhoumi, dast beh delam nazaar!

by Mammad on

You know and I know why this crowd is boiling! It is what you said, and the fact that they cannot respond to facts. They have made stereotypical of people like me. Then, because the steretypical turns out to be phantum, they start wisecracking, abusing, etc. They have made stereotypical of everybody in Iran except the "Iranian people" whom they have taken upon themselves to represent.

And, they are so sure of what they say that they even avoid direct response, so they write letter to others!

Mammad


Mammad

DK

by Mammad on

1. Shirin Khaanoum-e Ebadi is not a relative. Her brother and I have been closest friends for over 30 years (in fact, we just exchanged e-mails about Iran's developments). My wife was a friend of the Ebadi family, was introduced to me, and the rest is history.

2. I have utmost respect for Shirin khaanoum-e Ebadi. But, she is not my idol (with every bit of due respect to her). In fact, I do not have any idol because I do not believe in such things as idols. We Iranians have suffered partly because of inventing idols for ourselves. And, there is a difference between a national hero and a personal idol. By the way, Shirin khaanoum is also totally against idols too.

3. Whatever I say has nothing to do with Shirin Ebadi. I speak for myself, and nobody but myself. So, do not insinuate anything.

4. I am all for peace among Iranians, and a united front for democracy. But, a united front for democracy cannot be made based on wishy washy ideas, in which we put Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh in the same group as Mohammad Reza Shah and his family who despised Dr. Mosaddegh. A united front should be made on a minimum number of principles on which everybody agrees. The first of such principle, in my opinion, is acknowledgment of wrong doings in the past by those whom you want to unite us with - the Pahlavis.

5. Despite your wisecracks, I actually respect you. I find you very sincere and well-intentioned with a good heart. I read and look at most of your postings, and because I respect you, I do not get involved arguing with you unless you force me. I just do not agree with you political philosophy. You are beating a dead horse - the Pahlavis.

6. You do not know the first thing about the Bakeri family. You have taken something out of context. I too believe that many of the crimes that have occured over the past 30 years far far exceed whatever happened during the Shah. Does that make me a monarchist? God forbid! By the way, Karroubi has said the same thing, he too was absued by the SAVAK, but he is cretifiably anti-monarchy!

7. Indeed, keep it coming, because that gives me the legitimate excuse to comment on your postings, something that I have tried to do because of your good heart and good intentions. Bring it on!

Mammad


Cheyenne in Once Upon a Time

The supporters of the Islamic republic

by Cheyenne in Once Upon a Time on

need to insert Q tips to get the wax out of their hard hearing ears.
Iranian people despise anything and everything that has to do with Islamic Regime and that includes Mousavi and Kharkobie. They hate both kind of mullahs with rag and without rag on the head.
Also, had SAVAK been so brutal as these left-over AN-tellectuals claim it to be, then again they wouldn't be here to pollute the medium with so much gher-ghereh and jegh-jegheh!


marhoum Kharmagas

Mmmad jaan!

by marhoum Kharmagas on

Mammad jaan, I don't blame the Shahollahis, and AIPAC secularists (e.g David ET, Iranian version of Christopher Hitchens) for being upset with you melli mazhabeez! You guys were supposed to capture the power and then put it in a platter and give it to them, you guys have not delivered!? You bad bad melli mazhabiz!! You are making our aristoclowns unhappy!


benross

Dear vildemose

by benross on

His avatar confused me. I couldn't tell where he stands just by looking at his avatar!

He is putting a counter argument, as he always does, to those here in diaspora that he finds pathetic. I don't agree with him most of the time but I don't blame him either.

Once Mammad and others rid of their fixation about themselves, they will realize that the new generation doesn't give a damn about them! They still might have some respect, the traditional respect toward elders, but they are not guiding or influencing anything in the political road ahead. You put on the table whatever you got, the new generation will pick and choose whatever pleases her.

Dear vildemose, if you really want to understand what I'm talking about, go back to my earlier comments. Not No Fear curriculum vitae. Go back to the fact that those young activists did not wait for the advice of Mammad or anybody else for that matter, to sit at a virtual table with their king.

What Mammad, and to some extend you, can not contribute, is to make them understand that in fact they WERE sitting at a table with their KING. This is something that they should sort it out by themselves. As I see, the rotten generation is of no help.

Ladies and gentlemen, our generation is rotten and useless. Keep padding yourself. The new generation is bypassing you. And the frustration is obvious! Your debate is changing the subject all the time (which is not my debate) because the new generation, with far deeper understanding of modern values, keep confusing you in semantics and bypassing you in a big way. You are no longer helpful. You made a fool of yourself. The best you can do is to sit aside and watch. Watching the video is a good start.


Darius Kadivar

Mammad aka Mohamed Sahimi For someone who takes pride in Ebadi

by Darius Kadivar on

I find very amusing and ironic that Mammad aka Mohamed Sahimi who supports Iran's Nobel Peace Laureate both as an admiror and family member ( distant or close cousin did you say ? ) finds that Peace and National Reconciliation between former political rivals or ideological foes is not something that should be welcome.

 

Peace Between Countries is OK but between Iranians when they are subject to murder, Rape and all types of mistreatment is not our priority ?

 

 

 

If that is what his Idol Mrs. Shirine Ebadi ( who by the way was only 6 years old at the time of the so called Coup) also thinks then I am afraid that there is no need for me to explain why I always suspected that her "Peaceful" and "Saintly" virtues as a "Peace" lover may have been overestimated ... Probably another of those Nobel Peace Initiatives that have greatly damaged this prestigious institutes credibility in recent years in regard to the Peace Prize at least.

Given that You people find more common Ground with the Likes of Q, Jaleho and Company No Wonder the Crown Prince was right to distrust You Islamic Reformists ...


 

DOCUMENTARY: Training of the Future IRI Political Elite ( ARTE TV)

 

You are from the Same Mold ...


Darius Kadivar

Mammad Jaan Then I suppose By Association Moussavi should ;0)

by Darius Kadivar on

Support Reza Pahlavi ? LOL

You Are a Wonderful Case Study Mammad Jaan !

Keep them Coming You are Unique !

LOL

PS: For Your information Crown Prince Reza Never Attacked YOUR Idol ... And certainly Not in this Interview !


Mammad

And who do Bakeri's family support? Mousavi!

by Mammad on

Mammad


Mammad

New Proclamation by a Young!

by Mammad on

Listen to the person with a purely Iranian name, declaring to the Iranian nation, as seen from the IC, and with deep thoughts, in a lecturing-everybody mood,

Only the young generation can understant the new democratic movement (!).

Then, why is it that he/she has been advocating an oldie like Reza Pahlavi of 50 years old, the remnant of an old dictatortship that gave Iran the clerical leadership of a grand revolution, after killing the press and eliminating all the secular democratic forces, and brought us to the present situation through its (mind you!) SECULAR dictatorship?

And, how old are you young man, to make your declration 20 years ago? At the age of, I suppose, 5-6?

And why is it that in your haste to make your proclamation, you mistook an Ahmadinejad supporter with a young democrat?

It is the "young" sir/madam that must leave his/her shallow, but hardened, "pousteh," set aside baseless, meaningless slogans and proclamations, open his/her eyes, and learn about Iran's contemporary history, as it happened, not the way he/she would like it to have happened!

As I said to Q, in this debate the subject of the debate changes all the time, once one side cannot refute irrefutable facts. At this point in time, this is about listening to the "young generation"! Let's wait for the next subject to come up!

Sorry to disturb your cozy democratic corner!

Mammad


comrade

After all...

by comrade on

بد نیست هر از گاهی‌، به این واقعیت ساده و اسف بار اشاره شود که
ملودرام موسوی و احمدی نژاد، به هر حال، ساخته و پرداخته تشکیلات انحصار
طلب مذهبی‌ حاکم است. اگر آرمانهای انقلاب ملت ایران به دست مشتی حزب الهی
به تاراج نمیرفت، ساختار حکومتی ایران تا به این حد از ورشکستگی و درماندگی
نمیرسید که انتخابات رئیس جمهوریش محدود به حضور احمدی نژاد مالیخولیایی و
فسیل‌هایی‌ چون کروبی و موسوی گردد. صحنه کشمکش‌های سیاسی در ایران امروز،
فراگیر تر از آنست که بتوان آن را محدود به جماعت "خمینیست"ی کرد، که از
پذیرش جوهرهٔ ملّی‌ جنبش فعلی‌، عاجزانه واهمه دارند. رنگ سبزشان هم
نمایانگر تعلق خاطرشان به همان باور‌های مذهبیست که ابتدایی‌‌ترین و
اساسی‌‌ترین حقوق انسانی‌ رأ منکر است

Darius Kadivar

From Savak Victim's Family's Own Mouth in Respect to IRI

by Darius Kadivar on

صحبت‌های شنیدنی خواهر برادران شهید باکری : بلایی که اینها بر سر ما آوردن شاه نیاورد

Translation:

Mehdi Bakeri was a political activist before the 1979 Revolution. He was killed during the Iran-Iraq war. He is known for his bravery and altruistic actions. He is often referenced as the model basiji. In this interview, Bakeri's sister compares the current situation in Iran with what the Bakeri family had to face under the Shah. She claims that the current status is a lot worse.

"I used to damn the Shah, but now I say God rest his soul..." Ms. Bakeri says


vildemose

Dear benross: NO FEAR is an

by vildemose on

Dear benross: NO FEAR is an Ahmadinejad supporter. Check out what he writes:

Military dictatorship or a necessity?

by No Fear on

Nothing is more distasteful in a political debate than having to explain it all to someone whose mind is filled with dogmatism without any reasons. I certainly don't have Nilofar's patience.

First of all, does the poster knows the technical meaning of the word dictatorship? Or is it being used here because it is mainstream to say so?

IR power structure is complex and multi leveled. Even the VF which can be interpreted as a doctorine which closely resembles dictatorship, does not have full power and is checked by other institutions like the Guardian Assembly.

As i have said before, EX military cadre with the proper qualifications in their field of responsibilities , have been given priority over the usual suspects with no qualifications who tainted our ministeries prior to Ahmadinejad's term.  Keep in mind, that i said ex military. Ironically, it was Ahmadinejad who banned people to hold two different positions at once.  So, you can't be a minister but also a military serviceman.

This cycle of serving your country with honors during the wartime and later becoming a politician is nothing new in the world and should be encouraged even more, but unfortunately, irresponsible people who knowingly or unknowingly are supporting the corrupt ruling class oligarchy in Iran, call it military dictatorship.

There is an arguement in regards to certain industries being controled by the IRGC, or in other words, the economical effect that IRGC has on Iran. let me explain here as well.

The effect of IRGC on our economy has been a very positive one. Truth be told, Sepah took over corrupted bonyaads who were not accountable to anyone and turned these money wasting bonyaads to profitable companies with their books and accounts transparent to the administration. This trend happened during the presidency of Khatami out of necessity and due to the sanctions which were making the operation of these bonyaads ever more difficult. Sepah was the only organization who knows how to beat the sanctions.

Ever since, over 1500 government projects has been awarded to " khatam ol anbiyaa" which is directly related to sepah. Sepah has shown great efficiency on carrying out and completing these projects. Keep in mind these projects were too large to have the private sector involvement. Sepah also has a great engineering firm which i believe is the best in Middle east. Today, contracts that were traditionally given to foreign companies, in oil exploration or other related industries, are given to Sepah , many for the first time.

It is Sepah who is saying " Maa Mitavaanim". And they have proven over and over in other industries that they are not just saying this as an empty slogan. Some of our country's best of the best minds are employeed by Sepah. Make no mistake, this is a highly efficient organization.

Now, Is this situation , ideal? To grant big government projects to a military organization?

Ofcourse not. We all want a stronger private sector to take over these projects. But we have to do this out of necessity and the realities of sanctions. Ironically, these sanctions have another effect and that is allowing Iranian engineers to tackle problems which they never faced before. The amount of money that the current administration is allocating for research in all fields is unprecedented compare to previous administrations who were begging foreign companies to do their job for them. Look at the bright side for once.

There is a final element which i am obliged to say. Sepah has some of the most dedicated and uncorrupted cadre simply because of their devotion and their religious beliefs. This highly efficient body is a valuable core to Iran and they consist of some of the best Iranian you can find anywhere.

//iranian.com/main/blog/niloufar-parsi/spelling-it-outpage1

 


benross

پند روز

benross


گمان می‌کنم No Fear به اندازهٔ کافی دوستان را خجالت زده کرده باشد. از پوستهٔ پوسیدهٔ خود خارج شوید و به نسل جوان ایران گوش کنید. پیام این بلاگ از نسل جوان است برای نسل جوان. چیزی که من جنبش نوین ملی ایران نام نهاده‌ام -نه امروز، بیست سال پیش- در نسل جوان ایران متبلور شده است. این جنبش «سبز» نیست. اگرچه سبز «هم» هست. اما پیش از هرچیز درک نوینی از پلورالیسم است که تها از سوی نسل جوان قابل درک است. جنبش نوین ملی ایران تنها با پیوند با نسل نوین ایران پیروز خواهد شد.


No Fear

ممد جان

No Fear


ده‌ها نمونه و مورد هست که می‌تواند به شما نشان ‌دهد و اثبات ‌کند که «میرحسین موسوی»، بدون کمترین تغییری در بنیان‌های فکری‌اش، همان «میرحسین موسوی دهه‌ی شصت» است. همان موسوی‌یی که در اغلب خطاهای بزرگ و کوچک این دهه، از «انقلاب‌فاجعه‌بار فرهنگی» بگیرید تا «خشونت‌های گسترده و خونین دهه‌ی شصت» جزو مسئولان اصلی و مستقیم آن بوده است.

چیزی که من (و احتمالاً نسل من) می‌تواند (و بهتر است که) مبتنی بر آموزه‌های دموکراتیک و مصالح همگانی «به‌منظور تحقق آشتی و همگرایی ملی» آن را ببخشد اما نمی‌تواند و نباید چنان آن را نادیده بگیرد که گوئی «هرگز اتفاق نیفتاده و مسئولیت اخلاقی آن متوجه کسانی چون موسوی و کروبی و خاتمی و بسیاری دیگر نیست! یا اگرهم اتفاق افتاده، مسئولیتِ اخلاقی آن تا آن اندازه نیست که نتوانیم رهبری جنبش آزادی‌‌خواهانه و برابری‌طلبانه‌ی خود را به ایشان بسپاریم»!

خطاهای «چپ دموکرات‌نمای مذهبی» در سه‌دهه‌ی گذشته (که صرف‌نظر از بی‌کفایتی‌هاشان؛ از نگره‌ی سرشار از تناقض و تعارض این جریان ناشی می‌شود) تقریباً بی‌شمار است. اما گوئی، این خطاهای حقیقتاً تلخ و تاسف‌بار و نگران‌کننده، تمامی ندارند. آن‌چنان‌که حتا در تازه‌ترین بیانیه‌ی آقای موسوی نیز امتداد یافته‌اند!

 آقای موسوی، حتا در بیانیه‌ای که پیش از سیزده آبان منتشر کرد؛ هواداران خود را به «رهبری آن طفل سیزده‌ساله»ای اشاره می‌دهد که توسط آیت‌اله خمینی، در سال‌های نخست جنگ «رهبر ما» نامیده شد. همان طفل سیزده‌ساله‌ای (شهید حسین فهمیده) که ایشان درباره‌اش گفت «رهبر ما آن طفل سیزده ‌ساله‌ای‌ست که نارنجک به کمرش می‌بندد و خود را زیر تانک دشمن می‌اندازد. هم دشمن را هلاک می‌کند و هم خود شربت شهادت می‌نوشد» (نقل به مضمون).

این درست که «نیروی واقعی برای تحولات اجتماعی خودِ مردمان هستند» اما به عنوان یک «آزادی‌‌خواه و برابری‌طلب» که تحتِ هر شرایطی بازهم به «آموزه‌های رقابت مسالمت‌آمیز» معتقد است؛ هرگز نمی‌توانم «رهبری طفل دوازده‌‌سیزده‌ساله‌ای را بپذیرم که به خودش نارنجک می‌بندد. خودش را در زیر تانک انداخته و قربانی می‌کند».

اما چرا نمی‌توانم چنین کنم؟!
چون: برخلافِ «حسین فهمیده»؛ درحال جنگ با «دشمن خارجی» نیستم. بلکه با «رقیب داخلی» خود، که هموطن من است، که از خون و خاک و تبار من است، که احتمالاً او هم به اندازه‌ی من خاک و تبار و مردم و کشورش را دوست دارد (اما به‌خطا حکم می‌راند) اختلاف سلیقه دارم. فقط همین. نه بیشتر.

اما در «نگره‌ی انسان انقلابی / اسلام سیاسی»؛ اصل و اساس بر «صفر و یکی دیدن» (سیاه و سفید دیدنِ) همه‌چیز است. آن‌چنانکه حتا «رقیب داخلی» هم «دشمن» محسوب می‌شود!
و آنگاه که چنین باشد؛ لازم می‌آید که «رهبری طفل سیزده‌ساله‌»ای به یاد و خاطر مردمان آورده شود که با «اقدام شهادت‌طلبانه»‌اش، از آن‌چه بدان معتقد است دفاع می‌کند. بدون توجه به این‌که: آن طفل سیزده‌ساله، در مصاف با «دشمن خارجی» چنان کرد نه در وقتِ رقابت و مناقشه با «رقیب داخلی»!

 آیا به نظر شما مسئله‌ی قابل‌تاملی نیست که چرا آقای موسوی، در هنگامه‌ی «اختلاف با رقیب داخلی»؛ سعی در «زنده‌کردن و بازسازی نمادها و الگوهای شهادت‌طلبانه‌ی انقلابی ـ اسلامی» دارد؟! این شما را نمی‌ترساند؟! شما را نگران نمی‌کند؟! شما را از مسیری مطلع نمی‌کند که گوئی قرار است در آن قرار بگیرید؟! به شما هشدار نمی‌دهد که «رهبر فکری و معنوی شما»، نه فقط قادر به «طراحی راهبردهایی متناسب با مقاصدِ دموکراتیک‌ شما نیست» بلکه حتا آماده‌ی «دل‌کندن ازانگاره‌های انقلابی‌اش» (اسلوب‌ها و متدهای پیشنهادی اسلام سیاسی) و کنارنهادنِ «روش‌های قهرآمیز رقابت سیاسی» نیست؟!

این تآسف‌بار است. که جنبشی که می‌گوید هدفش «محو خشونت، تحقق برابری و گسترش آزادی»ست؛ به دلیل انتخاب نادرستِ «رهبرانش»، «شعارهای اصلی‌اش» و «ترفندها و راهبردهایش»، نه‌فقط به هدفش که «مطلوبِ همگان» است دست نیابد؛ بلکه خاطراتِ تلخ همان دهه‌ی تیره و تاری را زنده کند که طی آن، بسیاری از جوانانِ نسل بی‌گناه و مظلوم اما دچار سوء‌تفاهم ما؛ قربانی یک خشونتِ گسترده‌ و کینه‌توزانه شدند. که اگر منصفانه به آن بنگریم؛ هردو طرف در آن مقصر بودند. چه وقتی اعدام کردند، چه وقتی اعدام شدند. چه وقتی ترور کردند، چه وقتی ترور شدند.


jamshid

Q

by jamshid on

Q, on this interesting debate that is unfolding, you write:

"Jamshid, you are a rabid Islamophobe... with no tolerance for people... you are also a fascist minded hypocrite... with little respect for truth and fairness...  you laughably play a childish game with people's suffering... with nothing more than self-righteous anger and delusion... Can one get more petty, partisan, impolite and childish... you are guilty of... you disingenuously and childishly accuse..."

And so on. Your input on the debate is noted. Now please step aside and stop polluting this debate with your personal attacks. Though, you may continue with reading the comments and learning new materials.


MM

please produce evidence with references instead of conjecture.

by MM on

The facts are easily found if you reference them, otherwise they are just assumptions.

If you have personal experience, you can state that with dates that can be checked eventually.  Otherwise, words like I suppose, I guess, ..... does not give any sense of truth to a statement, especially when they are not referenced.

Thank you.


marhoum Kharmagas

no Mammad

by marhoum Kharmagas on

Mammad, I did not say there were only two camps, although I mentioned two in this context (opposition/IRI supporters). I am sure that you agree Mousvai was very involved with IRI, and actively supporting it, he wasn't just like some engineer who worked for the jahaad-e saazandegi.


Mammad

Marhoum jaan

by Mammad on

I am nor defending Mousavi, although I can see why you may see it that way.

All I am saying is that there is no credible evidence that Mousavi played a role in those horrendous executions, which represent a crime against humanity, in my opinion If there is, first bring it out, and second so be it.

But, I also take issue with your "they were either with the IRI or were not," particularly in that era. Thousands worked for the government under the most difficult conditions, simply because they considered it their patriotic duty during a most difficult war, not because they agreed strongly with whatever that happened. This is also true about the Pahlavi regime. 

 

Mammad


marhoum Kharmagas

Mammad

by marhoum Kharmagas on

Mammad, with all due respect (*), I think you are making a mistake, very likely because you were not in Iran during the period right after the revolution. There was a period which all of us made huge mistakes, those whom like Mousavi were more or less with IRI and those of us who opposed IRI. Only those who did not get involved with politics made no mistakes. Those of us in the opposition went too far and those in IRI side went too far in their response.  My point here is not which side was worse, my point is that I don't understand your defense of Mousavi.

(*) And I mean it, and perhaps this is the first time I have used it without putting it in ".."!

 

 


Mammad

Jamshid

by Mammad on

Let me first point out that you are in fact responding mostly to what I wrote in response to Anonymous Observers.

Secondly, you took my "bokhaar-e me'deh" comment out of context. They are comments that have no basis in reality (like someone who claimed that Mousavi was a member of the central committee of Lebanese Hezbollah), not those, such as yours that, although I disagree with, are substantive. I do not get involved in debates with the first group.

1. I never claimed that I am the only one who has lost loved ones. This is also not a matter of one losing "more" loved ones than others. Any small loss is a huge loss, because we are talking about human lives and human resources and aspirations of a nation. There is no way to "weigh" losses.

But, I meant that because of what has happened, and because I write articles, like my scientific research I digg into a subject very deeply before writing about it. If you read them, you will see that most, if not all, are loaded with references to credible sources. That does not imply that everything that I write about should be accepted by anyone who reads them - far from it - but that they have factual basis based on credible sources.

2. I am sure that many of those who lost their loved ones hate or hated the entire IRI leadership to the last moment of their lives. I never claimed that my two close friends are representative of a majority. They may or may not be, but neither you nor I can know for sure.

3. Unlike what you say, I do know that the executions were not announced, but it was Anonymous Oberserver who brought it up, not me.  In fact, the whole subject was, and still is to a very large extent, taboo in Iran. The first time that the subject was talked about in the press was during the first three years of Khatami, but two newspapers that brought them up were closed very quickly.

In early summer 1981 when the assassinations of the IRI leaders was underway, the names of the executed were announced on the radio in the 2:00 pm newsprogram of TV and radio (my brother and cousin were part of those), but since the fall of that year the announcements on radio stopped, and then after sometime even the print press stopped it. Those that you see on pro-MKO sites belong to that era. In addition, I do not believe a word that MKO says, unless I can confirm it by other sources.

4. My educated guess is that Mousavi learned about the executions sometime in September of 1988, because that is when he wanted to resign. Why do I say that? Because at that time,

(1) the 3rd Majles was controlled by the leftists (like Mousavi) and, thus, he did not face opposition there.

(2) His cabinet that was running the country since 1985 was largely to his liking (ideologically). His first cabinet from 1981-1985 was a sort of coalition of right and left (see his profile on Tehran Bureau site).

(3) His confrontation with Ayatollah Khamenei (that most people in this site either do not know, or ignore) had also been resolved in his favor because Ayatollah Khomeini had taken Mousavi's side.

So, there was no reason for him to want to resign. Why did he want to resign? You see, this is the type of analysis we need to do, not hollow slogans. While the analysis may not be totally correctly, it is based on indisputed facts.

During the 1980s he wanted to resign several times. Why? No one knows for sure, and he is not talking. But, it is known that he was opposaed to continuation of the war with Iraq (and in fact he played a key role in ending it), and it is plausible that he was not happy with what was happening in jails.

5. The issue of Kurd separatists is completely separated from what we are discussing, and at least the credible sources and informed analysts that I respect never mix the two. The executions that we are talking about had ended by September.

6. No, I never said, nor did I imply, that Mousavi did not know about the executions. That would have been ridiculous of me. All I said was that he appears to have learnt about the executions in September of 1988 based on the above analysis that, again, I do not claim to be definitive, but rather educated guess and plausible.

 7. I am not Mousavi's spokesman, but a simple supporter. I do not know for sure how he views those who want to overthrow the IRI. But, based on my readings and conversations with people inside Iran (and in this regard I have a very good source connected with Mousavi, his wife and his family), he is not pro-overthrow, but in favor of step-by-step changes. All of his statements appear to indicate this.

In addition, people like Mousavi and Khatami who worked within the system for decades know the consequences of overthrow as opposed to fundamental and irreversible, but gradual, changes. In their opinion (and people like me), overthrow will lead to an incredible bloodshed, may not yield the desired result of a democratic state, and may even lead to disintegration of Iran.

Once again, if Mousavi (or anyone else among the people whom people like me support) is guilty of a crime, so be it. We do not have brotherhood pact with anyone. But, baseless claims, slogans, innuendoes, and insinuations will not do. After all, these are the hardliners' tactics and tools, why should they be ours?

Mammad


Darveesh

you the man

by Darveesh on

lets go and get 'em.

 


jamshid

Mammad, we have also lost loved ones, perhaps more than you had

by jamshid on

First, a few indirect issues I have with what you wrote.

you wrote: "respectful disagreement is all we want when we disagree..."

Then you wrote: "A lot of claims on this site are made based on "bokhaar-e me'deh!"

Is belittling someone's opinion to the level of bokhaar-e-me'deh your version of "respect"?

You also wrote:

"But I do the hard research and try to find as much information as I can... I have followed the subject... I have read anything that I can get my hands on... have talked to many who are better informed than me... I have been a member of Amnesty International for 30 years... I am a member of its leadership council... without meaning to boast, I am extremely informed about this..."

And you add: "my own immediate family and larger one have lost loved ones to executions by the IRI..."

And then expand on these throughout your comment in order to backup your points.

Let it be said in here, that many of us in this site might have lost even more loved ones than you had, and perhaps in a far more brutal and heart tearing way.

Also, there are many others who also do their "hard" research, and talk to people that are informed in Iran. Not only that, they travel to Iran and interact with activists, even at a risk. They just don't find it necessary to boast about their background and activities.

Now back to the main subject. You wrote:

"Unlike what you say, they were never announced on the radio. In fact, many even inside the government did not know about them for some time."

You should avoid engaging in technicalities. Nobody knows if they were announced in "radio", and naturally "all" of the executions were not announced anywhere. But every now and then, a few of the executions were indeed reported in the newspapers during the time span in question. I have seen many such domestic newspapers reports displayed in MEK sites. As usual, many of the victims were charged with drug related charges, which their families vehemently deny.

You wrote: 

"by the way, my friends whose brothers were executed totally support and admire Mousavi and believe that he had no role in them. So, without meaning to boast, I am extremely informed about this."

I'd like to add to your above statement that I also know several families whose children were executed (one in particular whose leftist son and daughter were both executed in Kordestan) and who until the last days of their mourning lives, despised and cursed Khomeini, Khamenei, Khatami, Mousavi and many others who had posts in the government at the time. Without meaning to boast, I want you to know that I am also extremely informed about this.

Whose family should we take as role model? 

You wrote: "Mousavi did not learn about the executions 7 months after they happened, as the comment below claims. "

To the best of your knowledge, when do you think Mousavi heard of the executions, not necessarily all of executions in its full scope, but just some of them here and there?

Also, based on your comments, it seems that you believe the executions ended sometimes in August/September 1988. I disagree with you. I don't think we can limit the scope of the massacre to a specific group (such as Mojahedin), nor to a specific location (such as Khavaran.)

Many Kurd separatists were also quietly eliminated in large numbers in Kordestan in fall of 1988. That year indeed is a dark chapter in IRI's history.

Your remarks on Mousavi are conflictive. On one hand, you lead the reader to believe that Mousavi didn't know anything about the massacre. On the other hand further down in your comment, you lead the reader to believe that he went to khomeini and wanted to resign on several occasions.

You wrote, "People like me support them (Mousavi, Khatami, etc.) so long as, (1) they have not committed a crime against people, and (2) they support people."

Does he also support a great number of Iranians who want the overthrow of the Islamic regime? Are those Iranians even considered "people" for him or for you?

Lastly, Why does Mousavi insist on confirming and aknowledging his ties and attachments to khomeini, the most horrible murderer of our recent history?