Capt Ayhab

Doesn't matter, Ayhab.

So...Ayhab..the k-s is not to your taste, you say? lol

-----------------------

Doesn't matter. They're big and they're growing, and they FUNCTION WELL as a collective.

As I presume you're trying to tell me with that winky smiley emoticon that you already know htat?

lol again

speaking of king wanna be

سرکار رضا پهلوی

قاچ زین رو بچسب، اسب سواری پیشکشت

-YT 

Daily Kos?

Even way too liberal for my taste. I said I was a Progressive, but not the Daily Kos type ;-)

-YT 

mehraban jan: Thank you for

mehraban jan: Thank you for explaining the intricacies of a  symbolic monarch duties

However, the said 'monrach' really is not a monarch yet. There is no monarchy to speak of anywhere yet in Iran. He needs to re-establish monarchy first before he can have the luxury of delegating future visions for Iran to others. He is not there yet.

Avoiding permanent grudge match...

//iranian.com/main/2010/apr/rules-moderation-civility

From the Chief Moderator of the Daily Kos.

The thread is very informative too.

;oP

Ms. Hojatti,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

That is a sign of a person with big heart and bigger class.

Good job, and funny thing is that I seldom agree with Q.

-YT 

apology? to DK? I'll sell you a vowel ;-)

You are the last person to have the audacity to ask for an apology.

My dear ex refigh, you represent a [has been] ideology,  and the comments that you post add absolutely no value to any discussion what so ever.

So please do not flatter yourself just because in many occasions ,  due to my beliefs and convictions  in freedom of EXPRESSION and speech have supported you.

-YT 

On a separate note, I need to make a clarification about Q.

On this thread, I have discussed the fact that someone few days ago harassed me online and it appeaed to be Q. However, I have been contacted by someone who knows Q personally and he/she is vouching that it cannot be him. So I still don't know who it was but I wanted o make a clarification here that there is a possiblity that the person was slandering Q.  Presently, I don't know for sure but I have to allow for both possibilities. 

Since I wrote about this Q issue earlier on this thread, I wanted to make the clarification also here.

Human, ps Mehrbhan, Vildemose

Well, fine then, say nothing. Just read the blog and read up the thread carefully, following all links, including the silly videos, etc. That way you get to understand the site, the community, the issues, better. Good idea for you to leave Shahismail for a later date, totally agree. Hahahah, oh you brave soul. Of course feel free to interject when/if you feel you 'have something constructive to say.' Questions are also constructive. Very. Don't forget that. And also you can contact anyone offsite by clicking on their blue name. But sometimes people don't answer because they registered under an old e-mail. So don't take it personally. Just ask them maybe tomorrow on the thread to contact you. 

Oops. You don't have a contact button, do you? Well...your call.

___________________

To paraphrase Ayhab:

Good afternoon, everybody!   :

:o)

_____________________

ps Mehrban, I tried to contact you, but you don't have a goddam contact button. Cheraa neh? Divanehi?....sigh...timaarestaan...

Vildemose, you were next in line.

All, please follow suit. It's yours.

Captn and hamsade, I hear you.

I hear you both in your last comments to me. 

Vildemose Aziz

The point is that so far the Claim has been that if RP if he ever comes back to Iran as a monarch it will be as a Constitutional Monarch. A Constitutional Monarch does not have to have any vision or accomplishments or political ideas.  He is just a symbol, that is it.  He virtually has no executive power.

In a constitutional monarchy it is the "ELECTED" (by the people) lets say prime minister and the cabinet are the ones that need to have the vision and accomplishments to run the affairs of the state.   

In one thread it has been said that RP will (may) go to Iran with his own hand picked Prime Minister (now what is that all about?).  

Ps.  They also ask for solidarity between the Democratic forces of the opposition but plan for a referendum that does not mention a Secular Republic. 

Captain jan: Shoma kheili

Captain jan: Shoma kheili lotf darid. Baleh, man ham hamin masa-alero dark nemikonam. If this gentlman is demanding referendum why is he so shy about promoting it and defending it? If this gentlman is interested to be at the helm of power to bring unity to all segment and strata of society from breaking into a civil war or tajzieh Iran, where is his road map? How is he going to achieve that goal? Just being on the throne does not fulfil that responsibility.

Why isn't he on htis forum talking to us?

Many politicians like John Kerry, Senator Feingold, and many others use blogs to reach and connect with people. Why doesn't he have an interactive blog of his own?? What's keeping him from talking to ordinary people like you and I?

Mrs vildemose.........

Ghadam ranje fermodeed belakhareh and I mean it.

Tell you my own experience with masalan claimant to the throne.

A week does not go by that I do not send him an email. I have even gone as far as sending him a hand written[typed] mail. special delivery. I have even tried calling his office to no avail.

Trust me when I say in every single one, I have been courteous, logical[I know it is not becoming of me] and have only asked him same questions over and over again.

What is your platform?

What is your road map to success?

What are your resources?

How do you envision Iran 5, 10, 50, .........500 years form now?

etc etc etc.......

...........

I am YET, as an ordinary citizen, to receive one line of response.

In contrast, I wrote a letter to The White House in respect to some concerns with economic situation, I received a phone call by the week end followed by a letter from the White House.

My advise to RP........... Dude at least learn a bit from the way public official respond to citizens in the country you have lived for 31 years.

-YT 

rosie i'm flattered

thanks rosie for personally inviting me to join in this thread. i just saw it now. i'm flattered that you would think i could contribute to defusing an impasse in dialogue.

you are all managing beautifully without 'outside intervention'. i'm here as an outsider. i believe i should not meddle, unless i have something constructive to say.

i had a touchy exchange with shahenshahesmail, for which i braced myself, because i thought i had something relevant to say there, but it never took off in a real way. maybe for the best. my ugly side would inevitably have surfaced.

i cross my fingers for all of you!

berross jan: Where is RP?

berross jan: Where is RP? Why is he so shy about his platform and his vision for the future of Iran? How is he going to clean up the damage the IRI has broght upon Iran culturally, politically, socially, educationally, economically, internationally and so on? He needs to talk about specifics not generalities anymore...He also needs to confront the legacy of his family including his father once and for all and put it to rest.

Why should we support  a character we hardly know? Writing books is not enough for a politician to explain his/her platform. He is an unknown as a politician and a candidate to run a country or even demand a referendum. Why should people believe his intentions are honest and legitimate? He needs to debate his detractors in a public debate. Can he do that?

He has not made any attempt to connect with  (emotionally, intellectually, politically) any os us on the fence.

Ms. Mehrban

As you recall, in 1979/1357 so called  sham of a referendum there was only one question asked:Joomhoriye Eslami: Baleh ........ Khier.

The vision of RP and supporters when they talk of referendum is identical. One question on the ballet:

monarchy : Yes .......... No

I can already recite the public answer to that: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Thanks for being voice of reason.

-YT

well said mehraban and

well said mehraban and anahid.  i think that some monarchists would like to use iri’s blueprint for hoodwinking the nation (i.e., referendum).  one needs to be more original. there are many problems with the referendum, the way i see it.  let’s see: rp (i don’t mean to dis monarchists by using lowercase when referring to his majesty) doesn’t have to debate anyone, doesn’t need to submit his qualifications (he’s got the dna), can marginalize democratic candidates by multitude (e.g. have 20 candidates for democracy, one for vf, and himself), and some of his followers can immediately silence all critics through bullying if god forbid someone question his majesty.  if monarchy is the way to go, i like to have someone else for a king.  surely, we must have at least couple of million ghajar princes and princesses with some of them having accomplished a great deal in their life.  i’m sure some of the commenters on this site are princes and princesses.  i'm not. :(

at any rate, in my ideal world, i would like all monarchists to enjoy the same freedom as any other Iranian and have an opportunity to change the future democratic iran into a constitutional monarchy.  i need a bit more convincing than “monarchy is better than vf” or “you cannot criticize his highness.”  therefore, i suggest a two-phase system for constitutional monarchy.  given a democratic iran, the first phase would be to accept or deny a constitutional monarchy followed by a second phase of choosing between royalty candidates.  i think it’s a win-win situation for everyone who opposes the vf. i sincerely hope i didn’t offend my monarchist compatriots.  as popeye says: i yam what i yam.  :)

Write this in bold, Benross you may want to respond to this one

[Revolution in 1357 was rejection of monarchy and all the problems after that with IRI does not negate the fact that millions of Iranians rejected Monarchy in 1357.]

Ms. Hojjati very well said, I will take this to the next step that the referedum of 1357 was in no uncertain terms a vote against the Monarchy,  the unclear issue is what it was for.  Our Monarchists (not you DK) conveniently white wash that fact.  

Benross,  At this point, due to the crimes of IR people maybe looking at the possibility of a "constitutional" monarchy as an "alternative" way out of this mess.  Why is it that in the referendum that you are calling for there is no mention of the Secular Republic at all?  Is it my imagination or are we being lead down another garden path?

Ms. Hojatti

Amen to that banoo. And cosigned.

No public official, whether true one or one  even like RP is above criticism. just look at how they portray President Obama, as Hitler even as a monkey in full freedom and completely protected by LAW.

Public officials from King of Kings to the lowest sanitation worker are at the service of the citizens, not the other way around.

-YT 

It is wrong to call RP the king.

on this thread, I see that some commentators have this attitude that RP is above criticism.  This is wrong. Also someone commented that RP is the king.  King of what?  Revolution in 1357 was rejection of monarchy and all the problems after that with IRI does not negate the fact that millions of Iranians rejected Monarchy in 1357. 

Mr. MM - editted

You note[I know that Capt is not for IRI, but I have seen it so often that
Capt or Marge will just pounce on RP-related blogs.]

Being against monarchy and criticizing RP for being ineffective does not equate to being IR supporter. With the same token being a monarchist does not equate to being an Iran hater.

I am pro democracy in the form of Republic, more specifically Republic of Iran. I am not a federally nor I will ever be. Iran is one piece and will always remain one. I am against monarchy for I have lived under its rule. I am also against any foreign intervention on Iran, specially when it comes to sanctions and military strike. 

Our internal problem is OURS to fix. Leader will be chosen[rise] for his/her vision, courage, foresight, unifying ability and with true democratic platform for Iran, from  the people who will rise to that position as movement grows, and not because of blood line.

We should look forward to fix our problems and not back. IR took us back 1400 years, do we want to add another 31 to it by going back to monarchy with its own criminal record and suppression?

Since you have always debated like a gentleman should, I will confine in you as why I so harshly criticize Reza Pahlavi.

Firstly I do not hold him responsible for actions his father, even though he has never come out to condemn late shah's atrocities along side with IR's.

Secondly, In past 31 year, of which he has mostly lived in obscurity with few exception of lectures and what not's, he has been unable to show the courage, vision, road map, manifesto of change, and ability to prevent the country from falling into chaos of civil war after the regime change.

During late shah, no one dared to criticize the royal family, not even as a satire. Whoever attempted that paid very dearly for it. Exact same way that IR does today.

Monarchy supporters, are behaving the same way, seems though   they have elevated RP to the position of supreme being where no one is allowed to criticize him, exact same way rabid IR supporters behave.

In a democracy that so allegedly RP preaches,  I and every single citizens have the constitutional right to criticize in any manner they chose, the leader and entire government body.

IR dose not allow this............... IR supporters do not allow this, nor do Reza Pahlavi supporters and the monarchist. Is this the utopia that monarchist are promising?  Why change then?? We don't have that right now and we won't get it with RP either. Just notice how lynch mob comes down at the slightest hint of criticism of both sides!

If you feel that he[RP] posses any of those qualities, I am more than willing to listen to your argument with proof of his actions.

Rest regards

-YT 

Exir, you don't have to be polite here.

you don't HAVE to be ANYTHING here. Or do ANYTHING. As I understand it, on this thread the only thing you HAVE to do (IF and only IF you don't want to risk prompt deletion) is to not use profanity fully spelled out because that is the 'rule' for now onsite, as per the pulisher, concerning moderation. There is also a second part to that rule which prohibits 'personal attacks, which is more ambiguous than the first. I have a far thicker skin than you might've imagined from the beginning of my School Marm Vampire blog thread. And, whatever thin skin I did have then, that thread made it....like a rhinocerous'. So, please, Exir, fire away to your heart's delight.

Whyyyyyyyy on eeeeeeeeeearth did you dream up that I was male?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

My position on Monarchy

Societies and governments evolve to better serve the needs of a nation. Same way Feudalism gave way to Monarchy, Monarchy in turn has given way to more practical system of government, i.e. Republic This is obvious in history of many modern countries and history throughout the world. 

Now one could argue the case of Spain and England, by stating the that a constitutional monarchy with a king or queen as a SYMBOL has worked fine for them, since there are practically no power bestowed on them by the constitution.

My answer and personal opinion on that is what is the use then? If one country has a symbolic king or queen with NO power then why pay them for doing nothing? What purpose does it serve? what is king's or queen's usefulness in running the country.

Besides, when we talk about a country of like ours, since the society is rather inexperienced in democracy and running a republic, there is a great danger of a constitutional monarch of becoming a dictator as we saw in the case of late shah.

In addition to this great danger, what concerns me the most about Reza Pahlavi are his total lack of experience and inability in leading a revolution of this magnitude, let alone running the country after such revolution takes place. My second concern with this character is his proven connection with foreign warmongering entities, i.e. Neoconservatives , Hawkish Likud party and AIPAC, groups who still have blood of other nation on their hands namely Iraq.

On the other hand, What has RP done so far in unifying the opposition groups, except interview here and there and a book or two? Any revolution, once it takes place, is going to need a charismatic, strong willed, visionary, and most of a unifying capability in order to be successful to maintain the cohesion of the country and prevent it from falling into civil war.

Reza pahlavi posses none of the qualities. He hardly can articulate an arousing speech. He has been in obscurity for most of his life and only carries the baggage by virtue of his blood line. He has not demonstrated the strong will and vision to guide the opposition let alone a country. And most of all he is totally incapable of uniting people around him let alone an entire country.

To many foreign leaders and king makers, he does not even qualify as a Chalabi wanna be. He has even failed in  that test.

What is his platform?

Where is his manifesto for change?

Where is his road map to prevent civil war after the regime change?

One might argue that his platform is human rights. Fine and dandy but someone tell me pease what has done for human rights? Which charity organization he has started with his vast wealth? 

People like Dr. Shirin Ebadi, Simin Behbahani, etc etc and even Nazanin Afshin Jam have done more for the cause of human rights in one day than Reza Pahlavi has done in his entire life.

//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/making-ira...

Best

-YT 

Good Morning folks

Thanks for steering the debate on the direction that was intended. I appreciate all your times, whether you cursed at me or not ....  I mean it.

Rosie, MM

Particular and sincere thanks to Rosie, MM who, have been presenting arguments based on facts and based on what they have seen from me so far. I truly appreciate it.

For ones who are still a bit cloudy and  have not been able still to grasp the metaphor behind the thread. I would like for you all to go back and read through the comments and debates by myself, Rosie, MM and Ms. Hojatti you will certainly get the heart of the matter.

-YT 

Clarifying my position on Monarchy: WITH ONE P.S.

Clarificaton:

p.s. Clarification of my position toward monarchy: When I say that I have always rejected categorically the position that monarchy is NOT a legitimate position for the Opposition, and thus it CANNOT be rejected out of hand and excluded from the discussion. This does not mean that it would WORK in Iran, much less that it would be chosen by the people of Iran. Merely that we are part of one large global community. Within our collective experience, monarchy has been categorically proven to remain a viable option for secular parliamentary democracy in the present day. Further:

1. Some of the finest of the fine secular democracys are monarchies. We already know which ones they are.

2. These monarchies have a REIGNING (rather than a ruling) Monarch, which is Reza Pahlavi's ten million times stated position.

3. The finest of these fine include one monarchy with a Restauraton. We already know which one that is.

Therefore, strictly speaking, within the current reality of this global village it is wrong to ever say that Monarchism is an invalid position for a secular democracy.

There is a number 4. The Monarch of England is the head of the Anglican Church.  (just to point out that there still exists a formal relationship of governance and religion within one of these finest of the fine.

So,to speak of religion, bearing in mind my comments on the position of Islamic Republic as an expedient means toward an end through Reform, I had a joke since early on here, but I think I only cracked it once because I realized it wasn't time to inject it into the discourse. The joke was that ultimately since it is the people of Iran who will choose, I would LOVE to see the look on all of your faces if they chose an ISLAMIC parliamentary democratic MONARCHY. 

------------------------

ps Not to say that RP would agree to assume this position. Just to say that sas a THEORETICAL option it....exists.

Hahaha, anyone?

lol

RP

is the heir of the Pahlavi dynasty. Personally I will be fine with him as Shah. Given that his power will be held in limited and real power held by elective institutions. 

We need a glue to hold the nation. There are two kinds:

• Religion- led by the VF this one already failed. It is exclusive and drives people away. Thanks to it we lost millions of Iranians. Pretty much anyone who is not a rabid frothing at the mouth nut. Heck even a Shiite Ayatollah is not good enough for Khamenei and their kind.
• Nationalism - this is the one I like better. It does not exclude people. If your devotion is to Iran then you are fine. No matter if you are a Sunni; Shiite; Jew; Zartoshti or what not. One good option for a leader is RP. There may be others but I see eye to eye with the Monarchists.

Ben, yes and no

The suffocating hatred in captain remarks doesn't need to be interpreted based on our own values and upbringing. Even Rosie, an American, in a republican country, can feel it from distance.

Yes, what you said about me is true. However I have always categorically rejected the position the Monarchy is an illegitmate position for the Opposition, arguing that the cases of England, Spain, Sweden etc. disprove this.  Regardless of whatever differences, cultural, historical, politcal currently, etc., however vast.  My position has been absolute from the beginning and never waiverered.

No, Ayhab has already explained his rationale behind the writing of the blogs fairly early on in the threads.  Many of us agree that there is no longer anything 'suffocating' about them. I personally no longer consider them as having ever had anything intentionally hateful in them. Well, actually, knowing him well on and offsite, I never did. I just considered them very angry and a very poor choice of expressing himself.

Be that as it may, the proof is in the pudding. It was specifically because of Ayhab's blog that this discussion was opened and that true understanding  between different political 'factions' as well as specific individuals for whatever reason are now evolving in a very positive direction. Including between you and me after our recent argument.

Actually I would say that the overall effect of Ayhab's body of work here turned out to be anything but suffocating. It has breathed new life into the site, opened up doors to further the common goal of I believe everyone on this thread.the unity of the Opposition toward a secular parliamentary decomcracy in Iran. Because we are on Ayhab's blog right now.

Kudos to Captain Crunch!

;oP

PS We should not forget that there are people onsite who when they speak of an 'Islamic' Republic they mean this tactically toward the common goal, as I attempted to explain in my last long post below. They are fundamentally secuarists. IMHO.

__________ __________________________________________________

MM

The context is different my dear. Chalabi has a specific political connotation, a nobody who was brought forward by CIA money to improvise an alternative to Saddam. RP is the legitimate heir of Pahlavi dynasty, and legitimate king of Iran by our legitimate constitution.

Beside the fact that culturally speaking we tend to be more respectful to each-other. We don't copy-cat whatever is happening in England or anywhere else for that matter. We go by our own natural evolution, natural humour and natural healthy mind. We can tell what is unhealthy instinctively. Not by comparing it with what happens in other places, but by what it feels to us, based on our own identity.

The suffocating hatred in captain remarks doesn't need to be interpreted based on our own values and upbringing. Even Rosie, an American, in a republican country, can feel it from distance.

I would like to propose that.... EDITED

 (If you happened to catch & read the original post--it will reappear in different form at some point).

Well Folks ... I guess capt_ayhab owes us all an ... ;0)

Apology !

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mI7ldxcio0

LOL