Pro Democracy Movement of Iran (PDMI)

On behalf of who?

"On behalf of the Iranian-American community, I would like....."

Stop right there.   Who are you?   When did you get my vote?   Who gave you the right to speak on "Iranian-American community"'s  behalf?

I intentionally filled the rest of your statement with .....   because it does not matter what you wrote after that, if I agree or disagree is also not important,   YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK ON YOUR BEHALF OR YOUR GROUPS BEHALF, NOT ON ALL THE COMMUNITIES BEHALF.   YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT.

Unless the above claim is retracted by the author,  it will constitute forgery.   

bah bah

che jam'e baa safaa'i :)

thank you farah, mehrdad and moosir. they say friends influence each other, enemies just fight for the sake of it.

in the end what stops decent discussion is more to do with personalities and moods than ideology. just a tiny bit more trust would help all of us on IC get on better.

Peace

MOOSIR jan, I don't mean to hijack the original topic here

however, to your point about "sanity" 

it would not be just ideal, it is necessary if we want to get any where, that is, a common goal for all of us... a free and democratic Iran.

How do you respond to the loud mouth one… well, I would say not by being another loud mouth, bring sanity to the conversation. Surely you are not going to change every one but I don't think we will change any one's mind by being illogical, forceful and just bash their viewpoint without any regard to logic.

There are people here with two-blog-a-day propaganda and I am willing to be that he has not changed any one's view point by his constant rhetoric. Yet there are others who at first I thought quite differently about but thru discussions I have come to find out that we share far more in common then ever thought.

Farah Rusta is another person that thru reading her calmer comments, I find much more in common then otherwise and I am not a monarchs at all.

Mehrdad

Moosir jaan

I am the first to admit that I am guilty of the same charge, meaning Jebeh Melli/Mossadegh bashing. The only difference between me and those who bash other individuals and groups is that I do not resort to rhetorics (or at least I try to avoid it as much as I can) and try to rely on the lesser publicised and lesser known aspects of our current history and support them with evdence. Obviously there are those who call me a revisionist and fabricator but I invite hem to rebutt me with counter evidence. I don't wish to go through this issue as is not related to the subject of this blog but I only confine myself in saying that we must try and distingush reckless bashing from evidence-based critique plus a high degree of tolrance for the opposite view. Name calling is not going to get us enywhere (again I am not innocent but neither are many of us). 

Finally, I thik we need to add some humor to our commnets. It always helps to diffuse the tension.

FR

Bavafa, Farah

It would be ideal to keep sanity and moderation during dicussions on iranian.com but that is a naive approach as experience shows.

How do you respond to loud but few posts and commentators whose sole purpose is to bash Islam / moderate Muslims / progressive iranian americans /  NIAC and anyone who does not subscribe to their viewpoints? the naive approach is to ignore them but often times their tactics work, they manage to drown out the voices of reason with their loud and forceful slogans. I dont mind if the majority of decent iranians want to discuss issues in a less tense atmosphere but we need to acknowledge that there is also need to counter the hardliners forcefully. 

Mehrdad-e aziz thank you

We are all children of the same land and as such we have much  more in common than we realise. I have learned from my mistakes  and I am still doing what I can to make up for the lost opportunities - opportunities that could have made a difference, no matter how little, to bring us closer to each other. I am far far from perfection as I m sure many of my detractors will attest but all I can do is try, try and try again.

Thank you again for your kind and observant comment.

FR

Farah-Nilofar exchange

Only if more of our discussions were more like this.  I enjoyed your thoughtful and polite discussion.

It has been proven many times that if we take time to understand others point of view, we often find that we share much more in common then otherwise.

Mehrdad

farah jan

you know i am not a monarchist. but i am not an islamist either, and i think we live and make the best of what we have and any opportunities that may arise in a pragmatic fashion.

iran certainly has the history and culture to go back to a monarchy. heck, khamenei is another one really - just with a different cloak. i can't see how we could have had the VF (velayat) concept had it not been for our monarchist history.

i would love to see us grow out of such readiness to bow to absolute authority. in this sense i can't 'get' the idea of a monarch, constitutional or otherwise. i don't even 'get' representative democracy to be honest.

my dream would be a system of direct democracy, where we are responsible for ourselves, making important decisions collectively rather than delegating this function to 'representatives'.

there is a fine line between delegation and abrogation of authority and responsibility. for example, i don't want any elected politician to make a decision to go to war on my behalf. we should be asked, especially if we have not been attacked by a military force. the internet makes this possible and it could be done at a fraction of the time we spend on blogging...!

Peace

Niloufar-e aziz

It is interesting to see how much in agreement we are! Nuclear arms is not in the hands of the most peace loving governments of the world. At the same time one can't deny that it can and has served as an effective deterrent (against a nuclear strike). When a government is violating the basic human rights of its own citizens then with nuclear weapons in their hand would allow them to carry out their deeds with impunity. Furthermore, when it comes to undemocratic and unstable countries like Iran, Iraq and Pakistan, possession of nuclear weapons technology is their ticket to wreack more  havoc on their own people as well as on their neighbours. In the case of Iran I believe it was wrong to have acquired such technology whether under the Shah  or under the Islamic regime.

In relation to Reza Pahlavi I agree with you that he needs to boost his leadership qualities if that is what he wants to be. As a constitutional monarch that he aspires to be his leadership would only be of a non-executive type -  a moral leadership and this is what I believe he should focus on instead of acting as a political analyst.

 Thanks for the useful feedback :)  

farah jaan

qorbanet beram! baba man keh az khejalat aab shodam... :)

you are making a link between human rights and nuclear energy rights, if i get your right. ok, in principle, of course you are right in terms of being responsible and all that. but take a look who has such weapons already... it's a wonder we have surrvived this long as a species. we seem to master destructive technologies brilliantly, but not so much with constructive ones.

regarding the two men, i wonder if the comparison is well placed. RP has a claim to the throne, while Trita can only hope for some influence of an undetermined nature based on the success of his enterprise. RP's position is far stronger, but if i may be very frank about him: his real problem is himself. he shows little initiative or character, and fails to live up to the potential that his position gives him so freely as a birth right. the rest of us - including Trita - have got to work much harder to get noticed. to me, RP does not 'look' like a leader. i guess the trauma of the reovultion and seeing how his father was treated in the end have had a demoralising effect. but he has not grown into a leader. at least not yet.

no

.

And you are still obsessed with the spelling MM Jaan :))

I (and Fred)  are refering to the same Harvard graduated Hassan Nemazee who is also an alleged embezzler and you are talking about one Namazi who is a Zoroastrian. Now you can spell them as Namazi, Nemazee, Namazee, Namzie or whatever combination thereof that you like. We are talking about two different individuas.

Now where is my answer MM Jaan? Is Trita guilty by association or not?

FR

I agree

that no one speaks on "behalf" of me except me. I have already criticized NIAC when I saw a reason. I have also supported it when I had a reason.

Thanks Arash but I will speak for myself on this and other things.

Farah

You are really getting desperate!

I have never said that RP was a warmonger.  As a matter of fact, I have acknowledged that, publically, RP has been against air strikes on Iran in the past.  Although, you would not know it readily, the way some of RP's supporters discuss air strikes by Israel and the US on this site.

However, I did make a comment in DK's blog (do not attack my country! a speech by RP) that his speech / testimony would have been more effective if said so during the time the US congress was giving a green light to Israel and the US to attack Iran, and not ca. 3 months after the discussions were finished.

BTW, even Fred spelled it Namazi in his question: "Their lobby has to explain its longstanding working relationship, according to the discovered documents, with a Rafsanjani front co, Atieh Bahar and its big shot, Namazi". 

If you are going to act desperate and jump from branch to brach to muddy the waters, then go pick on someone who gets derailed by your condescending remarks.  Bye.

Niloufar jaan

Your reading of my comment is correct. I don't want to condemn Trita just for acting as a peace-maker if that was/is his true intentions. No one in their right mind want another war. I am only trying to elucidate the dichotomy in dear MM's rationale. RP had had (suspicious) meeting or meetings (I am not sure) with a number of necons but I have no idea what was discussed in those meetings. All I know is that he has expressly opposed the idea of war on Iran and yet he is often charged as being a warmonger.Trita's approach  however is different. He is (or used to be) coy on the violation human rights in Iran but defending their rights to a dubious nuclear technology. I see a direct link between these two but I am not sure if NIAC is on the same wavelength with me.

Thanks for your comment

FR

Niloufar-e azizam

You are such a dear soul. Never mind politics and its bloody ups and downs as there are people who may have different political outlooks but they have one common humanity. You my dear are one such illuminated soul.

Thank you for being such a fantastic good sport.   as Rumi put it:

ای بسا هندو و ترک همزبان
ای بسا دو ترک چون بیگانگان
پس زبان محرمی خود دیگر است
همدلی از همزبانی خوشتر است

Love you

FR

Farah jan re. RP & neocons etc

from your first paragraph below, seems to me that trita is playing a dove (a go-between with peaceful intentions) and RP is toying with 'neocons'. i am not aware of the details of previous discussions or who RP has actually met with and why, but isn't there a rational case for not condemning trita's role here at least?

Farah jan

am going with mixed case these days it seems :)

and i love maast too much, but amaan az kolestorol!

Peace

Spell me Fahah if it pleases you but dodge not the question!

MM jaan

You still want to play games which is fine with me but you might as well care to answer a few questions. You guys are prepared to charge Reza Pahlavi with being a war monger for meeting a few necons and yet   refuse to associate Trita Parsi with the Islamic government despite acting as a "trusted" go between in bringing the US and Iran Officials to the negotiation table! Can't you see the manifest double standard of your so-called logic?  Using your own notaion this is what you are saying:

If A = B and also C = B then A <> C !!

American representatives  do not need Parsi just because he has the email address of Iran's UN reps. They need his "good" offices to ensure that those who sit around the table are the "right" guys on both sides of the divide and the terms of reference are agreed upon before the chairs are placed around the table!

I am not sure you would be able to provide such services but you are still avoiding the main question as posed by Fred. Is association with certain individuals and bodies and governments not enough to cause any suspicion? Even in the Western democracies such associations are enough to tarnish the individual's reputation not to mention destroying his/her chances of political or executive survival. Only Iranians are prepared to turn a blind eye on it and wish: "enshallah keh gorbeh bood" 

FR

I demand PDMI stop writing things on my behalf

How does this organization speak on behalf of Iranian-American community? I was never asked, nor seen any polls/request/information about our opinion in this regard.

Their conduct is ingenious and fraudulent

Mehrdad

Farah

sorry I spelled ur name Fahah.

To answer your question, I do not know much details about Zoroastrianism, or what it "takes or off" to be Zoroastrian, but when I see pictures of someone in full Hajj gear, I have a pretty good guess that he/she is a Muslim.  Similarly, when you see Namazi/Parsi in full Zoroastrian gear visiting a Zoroastrian shrine, needless to say, I came to a similar conclusion, knowing that Trita is a devout Zoroastrian.

But, my questions remain!  From my long explanation, all you could dig up was the spelling and religion?  That sounds real desperate! And as I said before, I still spell it Namazi, since it is the Farsi spelling, and Namaz (prayer) is spelled just that in Farsi.

If spelling and religion is what you hang on to, then I am done with this line.

Namazi is Not the same as Nemazee!!

MM jaan you are playing games now are you?

We are talking about this Nemazee:

//iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/hassan...

and not the one depicted in your picture. 

Please don't embarrass yourself any further darling.

(BTW I am Farah and not Fahah :))

FR

MM jaan I also asked you a question

which remains unanswered.

FR

Fahah - pictures of Parsi/Namazi visiting Zoroastrian shrines

//www.iranian-americans.com/wp-content/uploads//2009/12/siamak.jpg

//www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=//www.iranian-americans.com/wp-content/uploads//2009/12/trita2.jpg&imgrefurl=//www.iranian-americans.com/2009/12/1604.html&usg=__T2ew_-uBTV_2icU-g1n_jRenFhU=&h=504&w=378&sz=50&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=hVUicMLr6tiOFM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnemazi,%2Bparsi,%2Bzoroastrian%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

And, yes, many places spell it Namazi too.

Farah jaan - all u could criticize was Namazi spell & religion

I guess you win the whole argument!!!!!!! NOT.

NIAC

I just posted NIAC's email on Hillary misrepresenting Persian Gulf on my blog. Please read and take action. We need to nip this in the bud.

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

Nemazee not Namazi!

//www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1913243/p...

And as far as I can recall he comes from the famed Shiraz-based family of the same name with their patriarch was Haaj Mohammd Nemazee who was a son of Haaj Mohammad Hassan Nemazee.

//fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8...

So MM jaan can you please explain how Hassan Nemazee becamse a fellow Zoroastrian?!!

Also can you tell us if you don't recognize something called "guilt by association"?

Just curious!

FR

The first rule of a civil conversation is to be civil

There is no need for condescending remarks and clever undertones.  We have discussed all allegations in the past.  I will first discuss how Mr. Irandoost's logic / reasoning is and then look at Fred's questions.

-----------------------------

I have looked into Arash's allegations, and his logic is illustrated in these two examples:

1. A+B=C; A+D=E, therefore C=E because there are some correlations.  This is illustrated in his last posting (The Curious Case of Islamic Republic Lobby and US Human Rights Activists ) where he discusses how CASMII attended AN's dinner and AN's anti-semetic tone (true, BTW), but then he switches to NIAC with the undertone that NIAC also attended the dinner (NIAC did NOT attend AN's dinner) and therefore a lobby of IRI and gives the impression that NIAC is also anti-semetic and fighting AIPAC since 1997 (!!!).  take a look.

2. I do not mean to be condescending, but given Arash's logic, one may also argue that his organization PDMI=MKO with 75% chance since PDMI has 3/4 letters common with PMOI.

-------------------------------

Fred has some questions that were discussed in previous postings

Their lobby has to explain why its Head Lobbyist and irreplaceable lifetime president was in a cozy relationship with IRR’s UN ambassador.

Trita Parsi interviewed the Iranian UN ambassador as well as Israeli & American officials for his book, Treacheous Alliance.  Cozy(?) is a matter of personal opinion. 

As long as NIAC members think that Trita is doing ok, there is no need to question his position.  Also, I am also free to switch and become a member of other groups.

Their lobby has to explain why the Head lobbyist was arranging meetings for the U.S. Congressman with IRR, a typical lobbying task.

Some congressmen contacted Trita Parsi and asked if he was able to contact the Iranian UN ambassador and arrange a meeting between the congressmen and the ambassador.  The congressmen knew that Trita was assistant to Rep. Bob Ney, and since Trita had interviewed the ambassador for his book (See above), of course he had his contact info and so he did.  OK, yes, a typical DC thing to do!

And, as far as having contact info in a place like DC, I also have the emails of Hassan Dai (hassan.dai@yahoo.com, a hidden MKO member) and Kenneth Timmenman (timmerman.road@verizon.com, a staunch neo-conservative) because of the emails Ken was sending Hassan to instruct him how to attack Trita and NIAC, which were CCed to the wrong person and revealed in court documents.  Does having these two emails make me an MKO and a neo-con?

Their lobby has to explain why the lobby’s co-founder was, and might still be, with CASMII lobby, an outed IRR lobby.

A+B=C; A+D=E, therefore C=E ---> was and might still be???

Their lobby has to explain its longstanding working relationship, according to the discovered documents, with a Rafsanjani front co, Atieh Bahar and its big shot, Namazi.

Namazi, another Zoroastrian like Parsi and a good friend, were looking at possibilities of forming a business before NIAC.  The deal did not happen and they went their separate ways.

Many of these allegations have been discussed ad-nausium especially by me who crinch at the possibility of supporting an IRI lobby.  If you look at Mr. Irandoost's postings, you will see a pattern of personal vandetta against NIAC and Parsi, and I wish he woud reveal who gives his marching orders.

in which case Farah

yes, I love mast o moosir with lots of piaaz and noon lavash.

Moosir joon I meant no offence darling!

You don't see the soft and creamy (like maast) side of my question do you?

I am just trying to diffuse the tension here. Believe me a little wallow in maast should cool you down, try it :)

FR