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RE: To call these crimes a mistake

I would like to add my 2 bit about the 1988 genocide which will take a few paragraphs. I think I will do so under a blog when I get a chance this weekend.

The fact that it was 20 years ago does not exonerate perpetrators of these crimes. Also, what goes on today is very much related to the events from '79 to now. Again, I'll write it up in the next couple of day......back to work.

Show me one place in my

Show me one place in my statements anything about what I "like" or "imagine". Bias causes people to overstate and exaggerate things to make someone look good, which is exactly you and this regime have done.

I have one goal when I see anything- to see the TRUTH. Truth and facts seem to be difficult things for you to respect.

The blind calling someone else blind

No Ali, YOU go get some glasses. Where did I say you quoted Rafsanjani on the missiles??

Pay attention to what you write before you call someone khaleh zanaki, you are going further and further down the credibility spiral by the second!

You quoted Rafsanjani saying Iran is 10th military in the world, I said what is his qualifications to state such a thing. PERIOD. You have no worthy answer of course, so you try to weasel out of it and attack me.

Furthermore, you said

"Iran designs, manufactures and exports it’s own guns, missiles, tanks, armoured vehicles, radars, artilleries, helicopters, aircrafts"

This is simply untrue. It is not a mistake in writing style, it is just a plain, simple LIE. Instead of retracting it, you say I don't deserve honesty.

And even on the claim of Iran manufacturing aircraft and helicopters, you have a weak case. Tell me exactly which aircraft or helicopter Iran manufactures (I don't mean built 2 prototypes from an already existing aircraft or overhauled/modified a damaged aircraft) but actually MANUFACTURES (let alone exports). Because no amount of "googling" will give you an answer to that- it is simply not there.

You have a LOT OF NERVE attacking people when all they do is ask you to back up some huge claim you make. Is this your "proudly Islamic" view of things?

Once again, you have proved you are all talk and no substance. Whether you like it or not!

RE: To call these crimes a

Yes I know what you mean. What happend in 1988 is a unsolved question for myself too, if you meant the executions. But I think when a country goes through a revolution and then immidiately a war, it's obvious that they will make mistakes, small or massive ones, extravagance etc etc.

But 20 years has passed from 1988, what's goin on now?

RE: Dear Hamvatan

You're doing it again!

What you see is what you get. If you wanna see me, your country and everything else based on what you like and imagine, you'll have it so. Even if it's not. You misinterpret what I say and write, because you want it so.

RE: At least I don't LIE to the readers!

hold on a sec, that is not a lie (there's no point for me to lie). Iran DOES manufacture its own aircrafts and helicopters. just google it. But I said I made a mistake on how I wrote it as I didn't mean they export all of them at the same time. It seems you don't deserve honesty from someone or don't know how to deal with it.

You need to pay more attention or probably get/change your glasses. I said I quoted from Hashemi about Iran being in the top 10 in the world, not 2nd largest missiles.

You may also go and read some about a differences between blogs and articles.

I'm here to exchange ideas, talk and learn, not to scuffle. I have learnt some lessons from you that I must be more accurate while writing etc. Let me tell you that you shouldn't stick tags to other people without knowing anything about them and judge on what they aren't. 'Khaleh zanaks' usually do this, whether you like it or not.

To call these crimes a

To call these crimes a "mistake" is not sufficient. What I have said is only what I have seen, there is alot more. Why do you think millions left the country in disgust. Back in 1983 the estimated number of the people who fled the country was in 3-5 millions, They all have a story about the horrors of the time. Regime slaughtererd more people again in 1988, after accepting cease fire with Sadam, why ? These were not "mistakes", these were deliberate acts of mass murder, called genocide. How can there be any legitimacy in a system that committed these crimes ? Were is justice ?

Dear Hamvatan

Indeed he is not, thank you for pointing that out. People like this claim that their point of view is "proudly" one of Islam's. I assume he means something to do with a God and morals. But the same person will go out here, claim complete bogus things in the name of our country, and when someone calls him on it he will conveniently run out of time and just say "you are wrong" or "khaleh zanaki" or like to "judge others". We are supposed to just shut up and accept our country's "accomplishments" (at least the ones he made up). I guess when you have God and morals, you can throw the truth out the window. God be praised!

At least I don't LIE to the readers!

You have limited time? So do I, believe me. But I at least do not mislead people with lies. I quote you below:

" Now adays Iran designs, manufactures and exports it’s own guns, missiles, tanks, armoured vehicles, radars, artilleries, helicopters, aircrafts"

This is a baseless claim, as Iran does not manufacture and export its own helicopters and aircraft. What kind of BS is this "it is a general sentence"? It is a LIE!

I further quote YOU:

" All possess Iran having world’s second largest ballistic missiles, after China."

Again, what kind of BS is this? Once again, when it comes to actually backing up a LIE, you conveniently run out of time.

"I quoted this from Hashemi Rafsanjani"

And what is this man's military qualifications? Has he studied the 200+ militaries of this world, let alone be able to rank them? What is this person's education??

"I didn't have any claims on the volume of Iran's exports."

When you say Iran exports every weapon under the sun to so many countries, you imply significant volume. As I clarified your misleading (and false) claim, the military exports of Iran are peanuts even by Iran's own stats.

You call yourself a researcher. Well you and I have made clear in this exchange how credible your research is (NOT). Now my friend, it is I who have run out of time exposing your lies and false claims. Maybe I write more than you like, but at least I respect the readers' intelligence here and speak the truth. Hopefully you have learned to improve your "research". You have a lot of nerve calling anybody "khaleh zanaki"

and your final claim:

"But I'm always sorry for those who want to refuse their countries real capabilities and facts."

I am (and you should be too) sorry for those who refuse to respect the difference between a fact and fiction. You do a great disservice to our country's accomplishments when you misrepresent and lie about them.

RE: Hamvatan, consider this as

It is not as you are thinking and saying.

Martyrdom is not the path to death, but the path to be, to live.

RE: Ali, everything I said

There has been some mistakes that we all wish has not happened, no doubt, but not as you're saying. Besides; things are now much moderate than before, but promlems still exist.

Hamvatan, consider this as

Hamvatan, consider this as performing public service; to educate and present facts. Engagement and dialogue is crucial. The alternative is antagonism and evetually death (marthyrdom), the 'honor' sought by islamists. We should uphold the historical facts and let people decide what they may. If they lose the battle of concious and embark on the path of death, then the world will bring them death.

Ali, everything I said

Ali, everything I said earlier about the crimes of this regime and the early days of the IRGC, I have witnessed myself, by close friends, or in Keyhan and Etela'at news papers at the time. This regime has committed these crimes and has bragged about them in public, throughout the world. Everyone knows. Which parts do you have trouble understanding ?

RE: Dear Fair- Mr. Ali is not Fair

Well, people like you are always dare enough to judge others based on "Khaleh Zanaki" criteria, and fraudulently on what they aren't.

Everybody sees and analysis the world around themselves from a main tenet or some principles. And yes mine is Islam, proudly. You should have one too, no doubt.

Unlike what you think, my/our history doesn't start from 1,400 years ago, even not 2,500 nor 10,000 years ago, but from preexistence to presence (coexistence?) and afterall to eternity. I'm not gonna judge which era you're living in... you already know it, hopefully.

And yes it is scary and sad to see what has come to a minority part of the Iranian community, nomatter how tiny they are; but they're still Iranian/human and there should be a hope for their alteration, if God wills.

RE: on the contrary..

- I didn't claim on the volume of aircrafts, helicopters, etc Iran manufactures. (You were abale to shorten your first two bullet points in one, it seems you just like writing more than needed!)

- Yes, Iran 'may' not export helicopters and aircrafts. But the sentence is a general sentence. I guess I should have picky people in mind more than before while writing (I appreciate your eye for details here).

- This isn't something I'm claiming, I quoted this from Hashemi Rafsanjani and unfortunetaly don't have access to that news I saw on TV more than 10 years ago.

- I don't know why I didn't give a link to this one and now I admit I can't find the source, sorry. (!)

- I didn't have any claims on the volume of Iran's exports.

- I have limited time to discuss my ideas here as I have many comments here and on my own blog. And also yes limited/no information, but about something I haven't claimed on and others want to put in my mouth!

- Again I like detailed people as they are scarce and valuable. But I'm always sorry for those who want to refuse their countries real capabilities and facts.

Dear Fair- Mr. Ali is not Fair

Dear Fair (and all others),

Mr. Ali has given me the same nonesence about how he has "no time" and he does not respond to "essays" when he can not provide facts or proof to backup his claims. Please see this IRI by product's views and beliefs on his holocust blog. He gives the exact answers and reasoning of the Antarinejad crowd. These Hezbolahis see the world only through the eyes of Islam (their interpretation of Islam that is). Their history starts 1400 years ago. They can not look back any further and they are trying to reinvent present history.

It is very scary to see what has happened to our fellow Iranians in the past 30 years. It is very scary and sad! A large part of our society has become extremely betamadon!

on the contrary..

You have provided no links or references for the following ridiculous and exaggerated claims:

-Iran manufactures aircraft in larger numbers than 5
-Iran manufactures helicopters in larger numbers than 5
-Iran exports aircraft and helicopters
-Iran is the 10th military in the world
-Iran has 2nd largest missiles after China

Furthermore, you failed to provide the volume of Iran's military exports which I had to provide instead, which is puny even by the regime's own claims.

So is the problem you don't have time, or you don't have information to substantiate your claim?

RE: Don't change the subject and

I've given a link or named the reference for those claims you mentioned.

I agree with your last paragraph in some terms. However Oil is not the only cause of fear by Iran. But if Iran didn't have this oil, it would have not had all these conflicts with West.

I know there are still unanswered questions. But unfortunately I don't have enough time to response to essay-styled comments, it's not just you, there are others too.

RE: Listen, in Farsi he says his

First of all, may I remind you that this is an area to write comments, not essays!

About your first paragraph, no comment as you asked for end of discussion.

About the rest of your paragraphs, you make some serious claims based on sawdust and you're in lack of information about where you live and where you belong to, you need to read some more about current and past events going on in the world, based on true references not those you've already read from a little. I think it's my turn to ask for end of discussion.

RE: I would like to, when I get

Please keep me informed if you do so and write anything in this regard. Hopefully you will use reliable sources and refer to credible references.

Just to let you know that I/we left Iran when I was 3. So your miniguess is not applicable to me.

RE: To anonymous 1: Scathing

Well,'m none of those you mentioned, I'm actually less than what you've written and more than what you think.

RE: oh, and the unsafe nuclear program

You're actually making a valuable point. But it really depends on the dimension of these problems. Besides, all nuked countries have started from somewhere and had passed some points, and now they're fully facilitated.

Your point is more of something to pay attention to not something to prohibit Iran from its Nuke programme.

I would like to, when I get

I would like to, when I get a chance.
In retrospect, keeping the dialogue open is more important. Although, the bitterness of our collective experience with Islamic republic may not be easy, or necessary to hide.

I am not making any assumptions about Ali, and wish him luck. I do understand, however, that many people born and raised in the Islamic system may not be aware of the bloody inception of this regime and the founding leaders. I will try to explain some of the early events, although somewhat anecdotally.

To anonymous 1: Scathing

To anonymous 1: Scathing rebuttle of this mozdoor bacheh agahzadeh ( aghazadeh). Please write your observations and history of what happened during the revolution and after. You should have your own blog. You're one of the most informed posters on this site.

Listen, in Farsi he says his

Listen, in Farsi he says his missiles are not the same as Peykan in quality. There is only two way about this; either Peykan is a low quality car, therefore his missiles are better OR, that Peykan is a high quality car, therefore his missiles are lower in quality. In any case, this was a vague and poor presentation by a person holding such a high office. This is not all that unusual from many of these thugs, who could never speak clearly 28 years ago and they have not changed much now, END OF DISCUSSION!

Do try to read the previous messages before asking questions about Arab-Iranian thugs. In my previous message I briefed the birth and early achievments of a shining example for you: IRGC, The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp. Arab-Iranian thugs are, in general, the fusion of Islamist Iranian and Islamist Arabs aspiring to form an Islamic state, since we have seen their handiwork in Iran, there is ample reason to call them THUGS!

So you figured there may be a few American thugs around, as well. What makes you think if there are American rapist thugs, then your countrymen are all innocent angeles ?

Yes, there are American murderers and thugs, about 1% of the population. But there is a difference:

The thugs in America are (not all but) mostly in jail. The prison guards are not allowed to rape and then shoot the female prisoners, not even in Guantanamo. The thugs who did so in Iraq are on trial already and more will go on trial. Unlike the islamic republic, which encouraged religion motivated murder, no judge in the civilised world has sent people to the firing squad for declaring themselves a non practicing muslim, but this happened in Evin, Karaj, Tabriz, Ghom and a few other places.

You should know that the Islamo-barbaric judges (Ghazi-e Shar-eh) were advocating the rape of the teens. Know why ? A virgin can never go to hell, '...rape them before shooting them so they will go to hell'. This is the legacy of the Irano-arabic thugs in '81-'83, and to a lesser extent today. Documented and filed by a number of governments and NGOs.

oh, and the unsafe nuclear program

You asked why I think this program is unsafe and dangerous. Well if you take that Iran is one of the most seismically active regions of the world, that the Russians who brought on the worst nuclear reactor disaster in history at Chernobyl are the ones building this reactor- right on the Persian Gulf, and that Iran does not have anywhere near the stringent nuclear and environmental regulations as western countries, it becomes quite clear. There are already reports of high rates of cancer and contaminated farmland and milk in the area outside of Isfahan near Natanz, and the government is trying to cover it up.

And I am just talking about the civilian program here....

Don't change the subject and

Don't change the subject and decide for me who my friends are, so please stick to the discussion.

First of all, YOU compared the lack of response by many helicopters in the Bam earthquake to Katrina and California in the US (both of which had tons of helicopters visible), not me. Therefore don't complain when I just point out what you said. See my comments previously about why this is irrelevant-my question about where were the helicopters still stands UNANSWERED.

Regarding the air force, what exactly did I exaggerate? And you didn't say "air force is not everything", you said "In long term it's useless" (go read your own post). Maybe you should study before making such statements if you want to appear credible.

Regarding Iran's weapons exports to all these countries and continents, did you mention the amount? I guess not- the numbers given by the regime itself are in the range of $100 million per year. That is peanuts, that means each of the 30-50 countries that Iran claims to export to buys on average $2-3 million, that is not enough even for one tank or one helicopter! So before you say the word "exaggeration" take a look at what you write/quote yourself.

And say again, which aircraft does Iran produce in numbers greater than 5?

I am not saying you are anybody's representative here. I just question the claims that you put on a heavily read public forum, and the fact that you get defensive instead of stand behind your claims and answer shows how credible your claims are.

When you write here statements like "Iran is the number 10 military in the world" or "Iran has the 3rd largest helicopter fleet in the world" or "Iran has the second largest missiles after China" or "Iran exports aircraft", someone will ask you to back it up. And if you don't, any reasonable person will (rightfully) conclude that you don't know what you are talking about.

Now let me answer a question you asked- about why Iran's enemies are worried. The last thing Iran's enemies are worried about are its armed forces. There is one thing that drives their fear- OIL. If that region did not have oil and an attack on Iran would not cause a spike in oil prices and threaten the world economy with depression, they would not even think twice about attacking. The only threat Iran poses to anybody militarily is its missile force, the use of which would cause a retaliation many many times more.

RE: Well if you claim that my

- I'm not the one who defends the Iranian regime by comparing similiar failures by the US gov. It's your friends over here who are always trying to prove US is heaven and Iran is hell. Just check the comments and you'll see what I mean. US, UK, Europe, etc are yes, way more developed than Iran and most other countries.

- However, if you read my comment again, I agree that Iran has serious problems with its Air Force, but I also explained that Air Force is not everything. But you're exaggerating the story.

- Iran exports weapons to Asian, African, South American and also 7 European countries.... but hey hang one, Excuse me, do you think I'm the government's artesh and sepah representor here?! Why shall you ask me these questions and expect an answer?

- If Iran is that week as you all think and has nothing to do on its own and manufactures just bunch of worthless crap, why are its enemies so worried?

RE: کجای کاریم؟ این

Yes, that's an unfortune fact my friend.

In many countries you may have higher incomes, but higher expenses at the same time. for instance, Electricity in Iran is only 12tomans per KW for end-users, while the government subsidises it by 60 tomans per KW. So if they wanted to have some profits on it too, they had to sell it for 80-90 tomans. Another example is Fuel which is "mesle rooz roshan". etc etc.

However, I agree that the GDP is low, but it's not as it initially shows.

RE: Alas, Peykan, the jewel of

- He didn't make a joke of Paykan, don't exaggerate. When they get realistic, you start bullying them.

- Would you please give us some references for what you're claimin about those who you call Arab-Iranian thugs? I'm really interested to know more about it.

- Well mate, I think you've got America wrong with Iran! raping girls then killing them, etc etc. That's their manner, not Iranians.