Misc

Lack of Airpower = 2 an Invasion

I Think the Mullahs in Iran should take a good look at history

since WW2 the U.S. only invades countries that have little 2 no Air power

& the main reason Saddam fell in a matter of weeks was because he had no Air Force & all his Air Defense systems & Ballistic Missiles were worthless because he had no Air force to defend them

& the reason Vietnam was able to endure the U.S. & finally win was because they used their Air Force even though they knew the U.S. Air Force was superior

& if it wasn't because of Iran's Air Force Saddam would have completely invaded Iran

& that's why U.S. has gone to great lengths to weaken Iran's Air Force because the U.S. knows that a strong IRIAF is more of a threat then Iran's Ballistic Missiles

Air Power is all that matters & if you don't have the technology then you need numbers
so the Mullahs better start mass producing large number of fighters because at this rate we will be invaded & believe it or not mass producing fighters like the F-4 & F-5 is not that hard for a country like Iran all it needs is funding & our government with a budget of $300 Billion is among the top 15 richest countries in the world
Iran's budget = 2 ~ the budgets of Turkey, Israel & Egypt combined
so we have the money we just lack a leader that gives a dame
Despite what you may believe an Iranian President has influence on Iran's military development Rafzanjani played a great role in Iran's military industry so did Khatami & Ahmadinejad has been a disaster

Mahan Paeezi

In yekii az video hayie ke man Upload kardam ke nemidonam chejori omade inja age midonestam enghhadr saresh bahso dava mishe shayad aslan nemikardam :))

Nobody does something "by themselves" anymore

..it is totally ok if Russians and Chinese help us do this, and if they do actually I am thankful to them. Just like the Americans helped us before 1979, and that was fine with me too. Even the US partners with other countries to do projects, as do the Europeans et al. The last people to try doing everything by themselves were the Chinese before Deng Xiaoping and it was a disaster.

And Nazi Germany was actually way ahead of the rest of the world when it came to technology, they built the first jet, jet fighter, submarines, rocket, rocket plane, even guided missile, and on and on. The sanctions effect on them was more for raw materials and energy, which did hurt them tremendously. But not on the technology front...

-FAIR

Iran did this by themselves???

yea right

the Russians and the Chinese are helping them ....

also remember NAZI Germany was under supposed sanctions before WWII.... and look what happened then...

دوست عزیز متشکرم

‫سالی پر از موفقیت، سلامتی، تندرستی و شکوه را برای شما و تمام هم میهنان گرامی آرزو دارم.
‫
بوی گل نرگس
نه که بوی خوش عید است
شو پنجره بگشا، که نسیم است و نوید است.
‫‫رو خار غم از دل بکن ، ای دوست که نوروز!
‫هنگام درخشیدن گلهای امید است.
عید شما مبارک.  

You are very welcome Haji,

I am very glad your relative's photo has been updated. It is because of men like him for the last several thousand years that we are still Iranian today.

A very happy Norooz to you.

-FAIR

Dear Fair

Thank you my friend.

I knew the link about the IIAF war heroes that you kindely posted. From the last time I checked the page, they had changed the pic of my relative that I didn't know till now.

That was the best gift that someone could give me for Eide.
Thank you again.
Tom Cat, as Fair says so well, people give what they have in tabagueh ekhlass to make the country move forward. They are proud of the achievements they make with what they have, which are limited with the embargo, that we have to be proud also.

"Shah's AF" didn't have T-38's.

They had F-5's and for the differences between this plane and the Saegheh, refer to my previous post (for the obvious ones at least).

-FAIR

Cheap shot

Tomcat, that is a rather cheap shot- First of all it is not a T-38, it is an F-5. Secondly, The tail and intakes have been completely redone and this is a substantial modification. You don't just do this casually unless you want your plane to go unstable and come apart and crash on its maiden flight. You have to do some serious structural design, simulation, and testing in the wind tunnel. And I am not even talking about what changes are made "under the hood" that you don't see, both in terms of avionics and engines, as well as use of composites.

While it is not a new plane designed and built from the ground up, this is a huge accomplishment for a country like Iran which is under embargo from the US, and indicates a substantial aeronautical know how. Show me another country that has done this under such circumstances.

-FAIR

hey Hajminator do a GOOGLE

hey Hajminator do a GOOGLE Search on the F-5 and note the similaraties of the F-5 and T-38 left over from the Shah's AF....

and then when you're able distingush the NON difference between them and this "advanced Fighter" then get back to me...

zzzz

Tom Cat

If you had a bit of dignity...

With all it has been said here, you wouldn’t just have anonymously post your no sense. Your 1 cent questions, are like a crow’s dirt in the immensity of praise said in honour of Iranians bravery and scientific achievements.

wow!!! golly !!! what was that???

it looks like the USAF T-38 trainer just barely modified with what??? DUCT TAPE??? and Bailing wire???

FAIR

I truly respect your knowledge and expertise.It is true and i don't deny that the real definition of an expert on these subject matters, has lost its credibility and value. It applies to virtually anyone who comes up with a prediction or an speculation on a situation, or who happens to be employed by one of those think-tanks.

Thanks for the energy and zest that you have put into this discussion, standing up for all those brave IIAF pilots...

Eyde shoma mobarak:)

99 Cent whopper

If I may...

Indeed, Haji is not the source of this claim and is innocent, and the Islamic Republic has been very skilled at propagating false claims like this one, including the comparing of the Saegheh to the F-18, which gets laughed at routinely in aviation circles around the world.

A thing about experts, you are perfectly right and I agree with you. Anybody is entitled to their opinion and can write a book expressing their ideas, and that never deserves condemnation, and I highly encourage and support anybody who wants to do that, especially those who have opposite opinions to mine because how else will I ever learn anything. But having an opinion doesn't automatically make one an expert. So no, I don't condemn Ken Pollack for writing his book, but I do strongly think that he is not an expert on Iran or the region because of the things he says, and his lack of command of the language and therefore access to Farsi language material, as well as the Iranian "street". Especially when he works for the Brookings institution, a very influential think tank in Washington, and what he says can significantly affect policy towards Iran and the middle east. And yes, what you say about Carter is true, but he also is not (and does not claim to be) an expert, he has experience as an ex president negotiating with leaders there at the time.

One reason I regretfully may come across as arrogant in this regard is that I happen to have first hand knowledge of the military/aviation capabilities of that era (70's/80's) and have read so much incorrect and just downright wrong guesses by "experts" while I was seeing the exact opposite on the ground (and people dying) that I get upset. Especially when what those "experts" say have real consequences and have life and death implications for millions. For example, some "experts" in western intelligence assured Saddam Hussein that the Iranian military is gone, and that his "Ghadessieh" will be quick and easy and take a couple of weeks. The rest is history. That is why I do not have a lot of respect for these people, they are in positions of power and have responsibility. And people like Abbas Doran and other fine heroes, and millions of other innocent people die, so that years later they can sit in their armchairs across from Charlie Rose and say "oops" and move on to the next "situation".

Soon is Norooz, and I celebrate all of us being Iranians forever, the coming of our new year, and more importantly, the survival of this beautiful tradition of ours since thousands of years, despite the many "Ghadessiehs" brought upon us by barbarians. And I look forward to thousands of more years of it surviving. As a wise man once said, Iran har gez nakhahad mord.

Noroozetan Pirooz,

FAIR

One of my posts got deleted too...

... I don't know why. It was the one in which I disclosed Abbas Doran's WSO- Mansour Kazemian. I didn't delete it.

-FAIR

ThePope

ThePope, your original Shahi style comment was deleted!? My comment was not about those in the Iranian Army who stayed loyal to the country despite Shah's removal.

!!!

Have some respect for our fallen soldiers (and a bit for yourself). The discussion at hand here is not about "some 'Shahis'(!) that you know", but rather heroes who sacrificed their lives for Iran.
Like it or not, these legends were trained by the Imperial Iranian Air Force (one of the world's best at its time), and man they have proven their Iran parasti after the 'devolution', and there's no expiration for what they have done for our motherland.
-farz kon keh aadami; befahm chi daari meegi...

Dear Fair,
again, thank you for the info...
Dameh hamashoon garm. It's because of them, our war heroes, that we are standing tall today. And me too, I hope we will never witness any kind of assault on our homeland... 

Iran parasti!? (to ThePope)

How come many of the Shahis I know have been very vocal advocate of U.S attacking Iran?
Their Iran parasti expired when Shan left?

General Abbas Doran

Dear Pope,

Thank you very much for bringing to our attention this lionhearted son of Shiraz, and his tremendous accomplishments. Some of his story is available at //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbas_Doran.

Lt. Col Abbas Doran was an accomplished pilot of the IIAF, and later the Deputy of Operations for the Iranian Air Force, and an exceptional pilot and tactician. Despite having been injured prior to the revolution and exempt from flying fighter jets, he insisted that he be allowed to fly for his country. Together with the legendary Alireza Yassini, they flew their Phantoms from Tactical Fighter Base 6 in Bushehr on Nov 29 1980, and pretty much decimated the Iraqi Navy with their Maverick missiles, the same missiles which were used to destroy Iraq's armoured assault over Arvand Rood in 1975, leading to their defeat and the 1975 agreement. By November 1980, these two gentlemen were the last two remaining pilots proficient on the Maverick, everybody else was purged or executed or imprisoned or exiled. These two people then retrained the remaining pilots on the Maverick, which was used extensively against Iraq for years later.

As you mentioned, Abbas Doran flew hundreds of sorties, and 120 deep inside Iraq. He knew all the valleys and ingress and egress routes like the back of his hand, and Saddam Hussein had put a reward for whoever shoots him down.

In 1982, Saddam Hussein had planned the Summit of the Non Aligned Nations in Baghdad. Khomeini found this unacceptable, and ordered the Iranian Air Force to attack Baghdad at all costs. Baghdad by this time had become the world's most heavily defended city in the wake of successful Iranian attacks and the Israeli assault on Osirak. There was only one man that had a chance of getting through, and that was Abbas Doran.

On July 21, 1982, Lt. Col. Doran took off with his Phantom and and his wingman in another Phantom. His wingman was hit by an Iraqi missile 50 km outside of Baghdad, and Doran ordered him to abort the mission, and he returned to Iran. Doran pressed on past all the defenses, bombed the AlRashid Hotel, but was hit by a newly acquired French built Roland II missile, for which the Phantoms had no countermeasures (they were prepared for Soviet not French missiles). His backseater ejected, and was taken prisoner, but he chose to die because he knew too much and his capture would have jeopardized all future Iranian Air Force operations. His remains were returned to Iran in 2002.

I would like to add that 900 combat missions and 120 deep strikes into enemy territory, especially an enemy like Iraq is unheard of in the US Air Force or Navy during Vietnam or any other modern conflct. (John McCain was shot down over Vietnam after 5 sorties) Lt. Col. Doran is arguably one of the greatest legends not just of Iran, but of the F-4 Phantom and the age of jet combat. The Shiraz Air Force Base is now named rightfully after this man.

We had many pilots like Abbas Doran, many of which were not allowed to fly by the regime. Of those who were allowed to fly, we saw some amazing things. For example Major Jalal Zandi, an F-14 pilot, accomplished 9 kills and was an ace. Major Siavash Hoda was another F-4 legend who accomplshed 6 kills and was another ace. Iran started the war with 450 combat aircraft and lost 200. Iraq started the war with 350 combat aircraft, and lost 600, and even at the end of the war had about 1000 combat aircraft. Because they kept getting resupplied, at one point Iraq's aircraft outnumbered Iran's by 6:1, but Iranian pilots never gave up. I as an Iranain am so incredibly proud of these people and their support personnel and their dedication, and am deeply endebtted to them.

I can go on and on, I am sorry.

-FAIR

Dear Haji and Cameron

Thank you Cameron, and no hard feelings Haji. I regret all our misunderstandings.

Noroozetan Peerooz, sal e- kheili khoob va por az shadmani va tandorosti baraye shoma va hameye Iran, sarzamine shiran va delavaran arezoomandam.

-FAIR

Abbaas Dooraan

While I was going through the link of IIAF Heroes provided by Fair (//www.iiaf.net/stories/warheroes/warheroes.ht...) and reading the names of the Heroes who kept our country in one piece, I saw the name of one particular famous hero, so I decided to write a little something in his memory. 

Abbaas Dooraan, one of IIAF legends who was highly skilled with the F-4 fighter, and he was a great strategist with an almost perfect mission profile. Two years in the war, he had almost 1000 combat missions which over 100 of them were deep in the enemy's zone (Iraq). His last combat was a martyrdom mission in Iraq. He also saved a lot of IIAF pilots from the evil hands of the mullahs. 

God bless the souls of ALL IIAF pilots...

ps   Fair, thx for sharing.

THANK YOU BOTH!

FAIR and HAJ, Thank you for showing all of us what it means to be Iranian … possessing kindness, tolerance and humility.Your gesture (both of you) gives us all Iranians hope that we CAN get along and soon all together make life better for ourselves Iranians and even once again inspire the rest of humanity to live in peace just as our ancestors did.I know it was not easy for anyone of you to retreat (even if you both write under pseudo names).I am sure you both (and all others following this blog) feel much lighter in their hearts. Noroozetoon mobarak … Cameron   

Mea culpa

Dear Cameroun, I thank you for your kindness. I had appreciated your bravery and humanity in the past.

Fair’s last comment touched my heart. I beg his pardon if I employed crude language against him. I have surely misinterpreted his first statements.

Fair, thank you for your thoughts for my relative and all brave hearts who gave their lives for our land. They all deserved to live.

I address to all, my sincere wishes of Norooz.

Hameh saleh bakhteh to pirooz bad, hameh roozegar to Norooz bad

Eidet mobarak fairy tail!

Fairy_jAn, eidet mobark, as an Esfahani I rededicate this to you for the occasion:

tavAzo' rA ze **re mA beiAmouZ
ke har jA khoob roi deed barkhAst!

Thank you dear Cameron,

even though I hope nobody follows me or anybody else, and everybody follows themselves.

In closing, I would like to dedicate my thoughts and memories especially in this thread, which is about Iranian aviation and initiative, and especially now with the arrival of our ancient festival of Norooz, to the brave men (including Haji's late relative) remembered here:

//parvazidigar.persianblog.ir/

and here:

//www.iiaf.net/stories/warheroes/warheroes.ht...

Most countries governments set up websites for such heroes, in our case they did it themselves. They will never be forgotten.

These men and the personnel who supported them were all Iranian, and were all trained prior to 1979, and despite no American remaining in the country and being under embargo, they did everything and gave everything for our country for 8 YEARS with NO TECHNICAL HELP. God Bless all of them, and for me, these are the real life modern day Rostams, as well as the many others who were executed/imprisoned/not allowed to serve by the Islamic Republic.

I recognize and honor the service of all those who served our country and its advancement, regardless of era they served in. I will never forget them.

Norozetan Peerooz.

Over and Out.

-FAIR

Dear FAIR … AND Hajminator,

I would like to beg to differ. You and you alike ARE role models.  If for nothing, just for the mere fact that you guys show humility (which is a sign of strength and character) and admit that you were part of a generation that committed a mistake.  Also, the fault was not entirely ours.  Our nation was not only deprived of critical thinking, real education but also manipulated into what we ended up with (a fate that many other nations share from Nicaraguans to Iraqis to many others).You are role models, for you all still and despite years of living aboard still have a love for our motherland and our compatriots.You are role models because you spend your lives educating yourself and hold knowledge in high regard and of great value.And that is exactly why, that I personally felt such dismay witnessing people like you and Hajminator on each others throats instead of in a spirit of friendship and kinship sharing your knowledge.I truly hope to see you both engaging with each other in the future in debates, but in a fashion that would make us the younger generation to be proud of.  To be able to mention people like you both as great minds that Iranzamin produced and keeps producing. With this said, I hope you both show ‘Bozorgvari’ and end this.  Everyone here on this site have seen and understood yours (both of you) ability to respond to a challenge, fight until the end of days and your knowledge… but most important of all your (again both of you) patriotism and passion for our country. I sincerely hope that this is the end of this bitterness.My kindest,Camewron

Dear Cameron,

Thank you for your thoughts and good intentions. I am not a role model for anybody, and I think the young generation has many better reasons than this discussion here to not look to our generation.

Our generation has failed Iran by making terrible judgements collectively, and not realizing what it means to have a country and take ownership of it even with all its imperfection, and think for ones' self. When I was growing up in Iran I saw how a vast majority of people followed one man into disaster, because he was an "expert" and "knew better", and years later still after all he had done, so many people showed up at his funeral that 8 people got stampeded to death. Our generation should be ashamed of ourselves for ruining the lives of our children and setting back our country by centuries.

I know our young people today are much smarter than that, I see them everytime I go back to Iran and I see them when they come out here. I am very hopeful for our country's future, since I know they are smarter than their parents, and they ask seriouos questions. The young Iranians I know will never make the mistake of their parents again, they think for themselves and will find their way. And someone like Ken Pollack is not even capable of having a 5 minute discussion with one of them.

Norooze bastani bar shoma va anha va hamehye Iranian dar Jahan farkhondeh bad.

FAIR.

Israel may drop bid to incorporate own know-how into F-35 fight

Israel is close to dropping an effort to put its own electronic warfare know-how into Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a
mainstay of its future strike force, a Pentagon official said on Tuesday.

Incorporating Israel's system into the model being built for it "is not going to happen," said Jon Schreiber, who heads the program's international aspects.
Advertisement

"I think our system will meet their requirements with some tweaking, and I think they're starting to come around to that realization themselves," he told Reuters in an interview.

The issue is sensitive because senior Israeli military officials had maintained that their aircraft must incorporate electronic warfare technologies developed by state-controlled Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd.

An Israeli embassy spokesman referred a caller to the Defense Ministry, which could not be immediately reached for comment.

Dropping plans for incorporating sensitive Israeli technology onto the F-35 would be a significant departure for Israel. Israeli F-15s and F-16s were modified to carry Israeli electronic warfare, radars, munitions and command and control systems.

Israel is set to become a kind of trailblazer for the F-35, which is being developed by the United States and eight international partners: Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway.

Israel has gone further than any non-consortium member toward acquisition, with plans to buy an initial 25 F-35A's in fiscal 2012 for delivery starting in 2014 and an option for 50 more.

The F-35 is a radar-evading, single-engine aircraft, designed to switch quickly between air-to-ground and air-to-air missions while still flying.

The models built for Israel would incorporate Israeli-made data links, radios and other command and control equipment, but not the electronic warfare suite, largely because of the high cost of integrating it, Schreiber said.

"They have pretty tight budget constraints and we're attempting to fit their requirements into their budget," he said. Officials from the Pentagon's F-35 joint program office met Israeli procurement officials in New York on Monday to discuss the program, Schreiber added without elaborating on their talks.

"We expect to get a revised letter of request from (Israel) within the next month or so," and anticipate that a government-to-government deal will be concluded by the end of this year or early next year, he said.

U.S. instructor pilots would join Israeli pilots to train at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, on four of the aircraft built for Israel, Schreiber said. By early 2015, the U.S. instructors would transition to Israel to continue training pilots there.

Singapore, the other non-consortium member linked to the program through a special status, appears likely to start buying as many as 100 F-35s a year or two after Israel, Schreiber said.

He expected an agreement to be signed with Singapore within the next month detailing security safeguards for program information as a prelude to "more serious discussions" about acquiring the F-35.

"At this point, we don't have any indication from Singapore that they want to put anything unique in the airplane," he said. "They want to go with a plain vanilla airplane."

F-35 competitors include Saab AB's Gripen, the Dassault Aviation SA Rafale, Russia's MiG-35 and Sukhoi Su-35, and the Eurofighter Typhoon made by a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies.

Lockheed's chief F-35 subcontractors are Northrop Grumman Corp and BAE Systems Plc. Two rival, interchangeable F-35 engines are under development. One is built by United Technologies Corp's Pratt i Whitney unit; the other by a team of General Electric Co and Rolls-Royce Group Plc.

Yes we should..but perhaps you should know something...

...folie de grandeur is also an English word imported from French, like coup d'etat, etc. Look it up in the dictionary.

So no, I was not mimicking the French like some kind of "singe" (monkey)....

-FAIR

May I???

 Dear FAIR and HAJMINATOR … may I just interrupt you both gentlemen (I regard you both as one despite all that has been said and the language used as I fully understand that you both feel you were provoked) that you put an end to this?In my humble opinion you have far more in common than difference in opinion … you just started off  on a wrong foot.I somehow get the feeling that I am younger than you both …  and so, as a ‘Koochiktar’, I would like to ask you to kiss and make up …  in the spirit of Norooz and for the love of us all Iranians and Iran.  It is not a good thing for the ‘Watchers’ to have a good laugh on seeing us Iranians in this state.  Part of vatanparasti in times of threat (both internal and external) is to forget about ourselves and hold the bigger picture on focus -  please do correct me if I am wrong.You guys are the ones who the younger generation is looking up to and would like to learn from your experience, knowledge and insight and be inspired by.  I am sure that what has been shown here is NOT what you want to the younger generation to learn and take afterI did try to take you both from this blog to the new one with the single purpose of ending this bashing and get the best out of you both ... apparently it did not work. Bebakhshid agar jessarat shod. I am personally looking forward to take advantage and learn more from this wealth of knowledge that you both have shown here -  even if it was in a not so positive way. My kindest regards to you both and Eyde shoma mobarak. Cameron