IRANIANS

Thank you....

 Thank you Mrs. Sabety for opening this discussion and creating a room for all of us to reflect on what we face ahead of us. No matter where we go with this piece and what we do tomorrow, it is good to be mindful of our next step.

Thanks also to sadchicagodad who cleverly and logically explained Iranians way of life outside Iran. It is strange but for me if another Iranian wrote the same exact post, it would not have meant the same thing for me. Thank you again sadchicagodad for caring to write for us.

Mrs. Sabety's writing has been a love and hate note for me. It has a lot of emotions in it that I can not put my finger on what makes me hate it and what makes me love it. But I can say there is a lot of truth to it. What frustrates me about the characters in her piece is that these characters when asked, are fully prepared to lead the movement. They (sometimes includes me too) talk about movement, its leaders, what needs to be done next, and so on with such confidence that you would think they can handle the movement but they will miss out on important events and protests with the reasons Mrs. Sabety mentioned above. And these recent protests were important, at least to me.

Also what I understood of her remarks toward Golesorkhi was not about idolizing him but looking at him as a source of hope and strength. I have a lot of respect for him and I can see how his speech now does not sound smart but at that time and place made a lot of sense to me considering the so many years of limited access to the books that were badly needed then to educate the intellectuals. 

Peace, 

Shaayad Keh

thank you

thank you all for reading and commenting. especially those who had kind words for me! I am no revolutionary nor claim to be. I have written extensively on the uprising in iran where I stand. but, I, at least, admire those who are more courageous than me. a simple google or search of this site will show what I think of these events and how I have evolved over time. I also don't claim to write about a majority but a mere minority of people whom I know. this is an opinion piece not a survey. I am merely poking fun and pointing out the hypocrisy amongst the people I know. not those who admit they don't care but those who claim to be active when they are not. I am not condemning people who do not like to get involved only those who take it a step further and pooh pooh the little efforts of people who do! it is the values behind the actions that I try to expose and I think the commentator with a apt. in niavaran confirms best everything I have said!
again thank you for reading me,

Ms. Sabety, no disrespect but,...

No disrespect Ms. Sabety but,

I have a condominium in Northern Tehran's Naivaran neighborhood.  I hate protests.  If I were in Iran and people were protesting and they were disturbing my peace of mind I don't care who they are I will drop some "Shabaan Jafari" business on them.  I don't care if they are plain clothes basijis, sepah pasdaran, the spirital leader, protesters or the president of that banana republic.

I know a whole mess of people who worked for the Shah including retired Generals, their houses are protected by the Iranian government.

All those protests happen in Tehran's slums.  Nothing goes down where people have money.

When you have money a week on Kish Island, a week in Dubai, a week in Istanbul, and a month in Western Europe makes you forget that a theocracy exists in Iran.  

On more about Shaban Jafari:

//royaparsay.blogspot.com/2006/08/shaban-jafa...

Ms. Sabety

As a non-Iranian, I ususally do not offer an opinion on pieces such as yours, for I know that whatever opinion I have, it will be unwelcomed by many of your fellows.  I have to say that whether one agrees or disagrees with your analysis, no one can doubt the depth of your convictions and the power of the words with which you write so passionately.  

Unlike you, however, I could not so easily throw stones at those expat-Iranians whom you feel are either hypocrits or simply far too passive in their willingness to openly demonstrate their revulsion for the regime which rules your country.  What would you have them do?  Isn't it enough that they have been deprived of their homeland just as you have?  Many people do not want to lose what little remains of the connection they still have with the country that will always be "home" to them.  That they don't wish to be seen as antagonizing IRI authorities seems reasonable to me. 

There is a definite difference between immigrants to a adoptive land and refugees.  Immigrants leave because they have a desire to make a new land their home.  Refugees, on the other hand, make a new land their home because they have no other choice.  In which group would you honestly consider most Iranians expats to be?  Without doubt, Iranians living in North America have become an extremely prosperous, albeit tiny, minority group within the total population.  They did not get this way , however, because anyone in Canada or the U.S. rolled out the welcome wagon for them upon their arrival.  You ought to know as well as anyone that in the beginning many suffered greatly from both ecomonic hardship and social dislocation at having had their old lives ripped away, not to mention the severe and extreme discrimination with which they had to cope from time to time.  Iranians have become successful not because they've lived in North America, but rather in spite of it. 

I, for one,...and a foreigner at that...neither think they need to apologize for their success abroad nor for wanting to be to travel back to Iran without hassle or to protect their property interests within Iran.  You may veiw such people as morally weak, but I see them as pragmatic.  If real change is going to come to your homeland, it must begin with the people living there, not a tiny minority of the population that lives abroad.  Many or perhaps most Iranians living in America now are not the ones who were born and raised there, but those who were born and rasied here...the children of those who left lives behind.  Those that you seem to condemn so easily are now middle age professionals who have built successful lives and careers abroad.  They aren't going to return in droves as you may think. Their children, and grandchildren in some cases, have been born, raised, educated and are more comfortable leading lives in the cultures of Europe and North America.  Many in this second (and third) generation of Iranians living abroad have never even been to Iran.  Do you think their parents are going to return and leave them behind?   

I love the fervor with which you write because it is passion that reveals one's true feelings, convictions, hopes and yearnings.  It is clear that you love your country deeply.  No one can doubt that for a second.  You have made a choice through your writings to openly confront and challenge the rulers of your land.  One has to admire your courage and strength of character, but you don't have the right to expect others to follow you.  Each person must do what is right for him or herself.  Some will hold you in high esteem and call you a shir zan for the views you openly express while others will shake their heads and wonder why you so willingly put your head on the chopping block.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, for you are the only one who can say what is right for you.  Conversely, however, other individuals can only say what is right for them.   You neither have the right to choose their course of action or to condemn them for those choices.

As for your reference to Golesorkhi, I would offer this one passing thought by referring to a famous American that was also denied the privilege of a long life.  John Kennedy is held in high esteem by Americans, but does he truly deserve his place in history?  He had a relatively short presidency and he did not accomplish a fraction of what many other presidents accomplished, so why do people love him so deeply?  They love him for all that they hope and wish that he might have accomplished had he lived, but they have nothing concrete to base such feeling on.  Golesorkhi without doubt is a towering and heroic figure to many Iranians because he refused to bend his knee when he could have easily saved himself.  Couldn't this admiration and love for him be similar to the reasons why Americans continue to love Kennedy...not for what he did, but because his life was cut short.  If Golesorkhi had begged for the Shah's pardon and his life had been spared, would you still hold him in such high esteem?  If Lee Harvey Oswald's bullet had missed its mark, would Americans today revere the memory of JFK?   These are unanswerable questions.  While you may wish that more people would follow in the footsteps of this man whom you so obviously hold in such high esteem, you must realize that you can't push them to do so.  What is right for you is right for you, but you must allow others the same freedom to choose thier own path.

Mehdi, what is your obsession with Golesorkhi?

Instead of obsessing over Golesorkhi and Che why don't you first get your facts and information straight. You say Castro is boring. Sorry he is not entertaining enough for you, perhaps you should continue watching reality TV to suit your ADD. Second you say his policies are "backward" when you know absolutely nothing about Cuba. Well, Cuba has one of the world's best medical programs which generates more doctors per capita than any other country. I understand that your capitalistic mentality could never comprehend many valuable things, but I will endeavor to enlighten you with some more info regarding Cuba. Well it turns out that Cuba has 10,000 doctors working as volunteers in Latin America and 10,000 more volunteering in Africa and thousands more around the world. And if you want to go to medical school in cuba (one of the best in the world) you can go for free before the age of 30 if you are not a citizen of Cuba. This is just one example. But hey, who am I kidding. You can go to private school and worship the likes of Hoveyda. I'm not saying Castro is an ideal leader, but you need to approach everything with accordance to its complexity. There are many things that you are deprived of, most important of which is critical analysis outside of the realm of mainstream education and television. It seems like all you are doing is regurgitating the same old stories and information given to you by the media. Or your parents depending on how old you are. Sorry buddy. 

uuh, mi scusi

I think what ms. Sabety whas trying to come to was that : IF EVEN THE IRANIAN ABROAD would've come together in a much stronger unisound with Iranian inside there would've been  a better result.

the opportunist again lost the opportunity.      Maziar

how dare you

Dear setareh, with all your apparent intelligence, passion for your homeland and articulate writing, I am shocked to see you would write an article solely to criticise those whom you have met along your way, who may or may not have done the best they could under the circumstances. Why dont you focus your energy on positive matters such as appreciating the youth in Iran who have put their lives on the line for freedom and democracy. What good would criticizing our co-patriots do?? It is alot easier to find faults in others and to point fingers. Try to concentrate on coming up with ideas, being that you are not in Iran to actually take action, on how to improve the situation and help the fighters instead of finding faults with those who don't, like yourself.

By the way...

That's "Dr". Che guevara, who finished on top of his medical school before dedicating his life for a cause he believed in.

Let's at least get the names and the titles right...

martyr lovers

A lot of you are just martyr lovers. Golesorkhi was a hero because of what? OK, so he stood by what he believed. But there is a difference between courage and being stupid, or mentally retarded. I am not trying to insult anybody, but I am saying most of you don't seem to know the difference. You praise Golesorkhi mainly because he never had any power to show you how he would run a country. It's like Che Guevara who is being idoloized today and for many years, but nobody cares about his successful comrade, Castro. Castro is boring, to say the least. His methods are backwards and destructive. But Che Guevara, well, that's different. He was a hero! What a terribly flawed viewpoint!

Great article Sabety,

The self-serving hypocrisy of some of these people, especially about having their real name attached to their real words is all too common.

Talk is cheap, especially if its risk-free.

vilemose

All of which were not so uncommon during the previous regime. Again you seem to have missed my point. MAny iranians are prone to display odd behaviors and disobey the law when it is convenient for them. regardless of whether there is absolute, heavenly democracy dominating in the country they live in, or that it is ruled by thugs such as IRI rulers.

Kourous S

Political and religious leadership set a tone and an agenda for the society.  The attitude and actual behavior of leaders, including religious leaders trickles down throughout society. we find that something like lying to people, torturing, murdering with impunity, faking credentials, thieving, sever cronyism, etc..not only becomes the 'norm' but in a very insidious way it becomes de rigueur to live in such society.

We regulary see  on this very  site that many IRI apologists, unbeknownest to them  don't realize how desensitized they have become to unspeakable crimes and corruption.

Dear Darius,

By no means had I tried to idolize Golesorkhi, however, there is a tremendous amount of respect that should go hand in hand with just the name alone

Let’s put it this way, at least he did not sell his country to get ahead.

By the way, you also lost me when you put Dr. Mossadegh and Golesorkhi in the same sentence

As we say in Persian

میان ماه من تا ماه گردون، تفاوت از زمین تا اسمان است

With all due respect of course

NJ

Dear Nader

I know ,you will not like this but Golesorkhi is not an idol either.

Rajavi is a vatan Forosh but at the end of the day both Rajavi and Golesorkhi would have been the same as IRI  but different , if not worse.

If we do not learn from our mistakes and just go back to idolize Mossdegh and Golesorkhi, that means we deserve no better and

we are still way behind and  to come up with a system that secure the future of those who we love.

I do not beleive Golesorkhi was a hero period.He could have used his power of determination is a very positive way.

I am commending Ms.Sabeti for  the message but in no way accept to idolize any one including Golesorkhi.

Typical Sabety!? I love it:-)

Setareh jan,

Here is a tiny quote from my book. Hope this encourages you to move on...

------------------------------------ 

Use the critic to your advantage  If you are not prone to criticism, then you might as well fold it and leave. Use the criticism to your advantage and make necessary improvements to make a difference. You may never be as good as they want you to be, however, you can always be better. The rule of thumb is that no one should mind a critic, "as long they spells your name right". Critics can be your most valuable acquaintances.  

“When people are talking about you, it means that you exist." Eric Cantona

---------------------------------

Somehow reading this article pisses me off, and you can quote me

I don’t know you.  I don’t follow you.  I’m not a facebook fan yours, and if this article is an indication of your mentality I never will.  So, I will express my opinion solely based on what you have written here.

I don’t know what it is about a lot of Iranian writers that they think their last sentence has to be the most profound thing they say without ever mentioning anything about it previously.  “…where as before we looked up to the likes of Golesorkhi now we admire Rafsanjani!”  Shouldn’t you qualify this statement a little bit before including everyone in looking up to the likes of Golesorkhi?  Shouldn’t you at least say “some of us”, or “some people who believed in armed revolution looked up to Golesorkhi”?  And when, according to you, we looked up to Golesorkhi, wasn’t there also many people who did not want to participate in mass demonstration, stayed home and watched television, and had weddings and parties.  What happened to them?  Weren’t they correct in their assessment that radicalism leads to more radicalism?  

And who’s “we” that is now admire Rafsanjani?  Wasn’t he defeated in the previous election, before this one?  If “we” admired him so much as you say so, why was he defeated?  And isn’t he considered to be corrupt according the way many people think of him?  Is that admiration?  You need to qualify your statement better than this, especially the one that you put at the end of your article.

Private property is the most fundamental element of most economical systems in the world; people’s right to try to preserve their private property is a fundamental right the way the economy of Iran is being run.  Expatriates' concern about their private property is a legitimate concern, and so is their concern for their investments in Iran.  If you lived in Tehran, which you don’t, you would know that it would take a life long effort to own a house.  And so, since you don’t live in Iran, you belittle those people who are concern about their belongings back there.

You lived in Iran a few years ago for a while, if you “love and admire those dead, in jail or actively engaged in the movement.”, why didn’t you stay in Iran?  Don’t answer, it’s a rhetorical question, I’ll answer it for you.  It’s because you’re a hypocrite!  If you love the dead, then why don’t you die, and love yourself.  You don't love dead, you love life; like the rest of us, or most of us.  If you admire the people in jail why didn’t you stayed there and got yourself arrested?  I know, I know, you had family issues, your kids had to go school, you had a better carrier in France, you could do more work for the movement abroad than in Iran, you had sick relatives here, or there, whatever!  Who cares what your excuse is!  We’ve heard it all.  You’re like the rest of us with a varying degree, but now you’re here preaching to us about your love for the dead and the imprisoned.    

Nader said it best about "Setareh"

Dear Setareh, thanks for your article and as Nader mentioned in his comment:" I must say that you are one heck of a fighter".

Payam shafari You neglect

Payam shafari

You neglect to consider a few key elements.

"Well, those who have left the country have left with money and most have lavish lives and lifestyles as you mentioned".

Perhaps You may have been one of the Lucky ones in that category, But most definitely many of us have done so without much money in our pockets, and had to rely on the generosity of our relatives or friends in US.

I beg to disagree with you on considering Iranian culture inferior to the west's. More iranians are realizing the better and more constructive contribution of their native culture than what is available to them in the west. Those who think it would actually be pointless to take their kids back to iran, are the ones who have significant and well-established roots in this society and it really would be a disaster for them if they had gone back. There is a good majority of these folks.

Your much too simplistic and black-and-white analysis leaves a whole bunch to be desired and does not tell the entire story.

 Vilemose Jan

As if we never experienced corrupt leaders in the history of our country? LOL

What has leadership has got to do with it, when such immorality comes out so brightly in countries with Non-corrupt and Un-islamic rulers? Poverty could be one reason, But then again look at the increasing proportions of white color Crimes amongst iranian both outside and inside of the country:)

You can blame religous khorafar and its not-so-sensible teachings only so much, The rests is our own moral responsibility.

Mehdi

You have already started your version of antagonizing by critcizing the free will of the people and the way they want to express it. Remember for the Billionth time that that is the essence of democray. You need to show some tolerance.

Well done Setareh jan!

Thank you on a well written article. I've been watching your actions on facebook up-close and I must say that you are one heck of a fighter. Don't pay attention to those that try to downplay the role that people like you play for this movement. Of course this "one" belongs to those who are living the nightmare in Iran, but one can not underestimate the power of "compatriots" who live outside the motherland either. Imagine an epic movie without extras...Thank you again.

And this is to Mehdi:You lost your credibility when you put Golesorkhi and Rajavi in one sentence my friend!?

I appreciate your writings

I appreciate your writings and conviction, which is sorely lacking in the ex-pat community.

I have also noticed that there has been drastic shift in the 'moral infrasturcture' of the Iranian society. I attribute it to several factors:

1. Corrupt and criminal  leaders ruling over Iranians

2. Poverty

3. Inherently flawed and immoral religious teachings/jurisprudence of Islam.

I think you got it wrong

I know what you are talking about but I think most often the people that you are talking about end up doing more for Iranians than people like yourself who sepnd their life antagonizing the government and trying to disturb "the system." You say Golesorkhi should be our hero, but honestly, did he help Iranians more or someone like Hoveyda? I know it seem that Golesorkhi SHOULD have been more helpful but in reality he simply was a stop in the way of progress for Iran! If it wasn't for him and people like him (Rajavi, etc), Iran would be in far better shape, don't you agree? Of course we can now see how Rajavi is a failure but we cannot see how Golesorkhi would have been a huge mistake, if God forbid, he had had a chance. I think if Golesorkhi was alive today, he would have had probably another Camp Ashraf somewhere with thousands of brainwashed idiots. I think you are wrong, revolutionaries like yourself are actually making things worse by creating antagonism and fights. Those people you dislike, are probably more useful to Iran, sad as it may seem, than people like Golesorkhi (and by extension, people like yourself). This may seem outrageous but it is also very true.

Just as always and like

Just as always and like all other readers, I enjoyed and agree with you. One thing however, that it seems most of your friends and people you hang out with are part of the elite society both inside Iran and outside. One can hardly expect any sacrifice from such group as if their goal in life is to milk others as much as they can. They steal, cheap and exploit others for their own pleasure

Mehrdad

There is only one problem!

Setareh,

I agree with most of your critique, but your comment in regards to the plight of the Iranians outside Iran is a bit of an hyperbole. Well, I appreciate the expressiveness of your writing, and I understand that it is rooted in your personal convictions, but it is hard for me to realize such a view when we speak of Iranian "diaspora". Well, those who have left the country have left with money and most have lavish lives and lifestyles as you mentioned. Most of us will NEVER go back to living in even a democratic Iran, since we regard the Iranian culture as inferior to Western "democratic" and "open" cultures. Most of us do not want to raise our kids in Iran since it wouldn't make sense to detach and "deprive" our children from American and European educational and corporate institutions. Most of us do not want to live in Iran, we merely want to go back for the Kalleh Pacheh, sandwiches and lavaashak in Darband, and in the case of many men I know, to sleep with poor prostitutes for cheap. Or if there is an opportunity to make lots of money and to exploit the workers and peasants of the "motherland" we would be more than willing to just pay a quick visit in pursuit of our capitalist objectives then go back to our HOMES in the west . You're quite sincere in your writings and I truly appreciate your message. But those who you mentioned as the minority, are in reality the majority outside of Iran and amongst the upper-middle class inside Iran. 

I too enjoy your writings and will now continue to read your articles.

Peace,

Payam 

Excellent point

Thanks for reminding us that real change needs courage, honesty and

integrity.

Dear Setareh Sabety,

This is an excellent piece, a sad mirror of the recent Iranian society.

I second that

Nice Piece.

I wish that you will get to see your Mother and spend a lotta quality time with her. 

Very heartfelt and very real. You really got to the gist of the matter. The fact of not being able to return is something i am grappling with as well,. but for totally different reasons.

Hoping that all restrictions will be lifted some day soon!

Well said!

Good common sense writing.

A good read

 Setareh Jan,

You write well and from the heart.  I admire that. You carry strong convictions and you have the courage to voice them. 

I hope you can go back and visit your mother and I look forward to reading YOUR first hand experiences from Iran. 

I follow your facebook entries and writing in other publications religiously. You are being read and you are being heard by people in Iran and those outside; so please do not lose heart and don't stop writing.