The Golden Age of Persia

Considered by many scholars to be the period prior to 1,220 CE


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The Golden Age of Persia
by Arash Monzavi-Kia
29-Oct-2008
 

The Arab Islamic conquests of the seventh century were of the same magnitude as the Persian conquests of 500 BC, Macedonian’s of 300 BC, Rome’s in 100 BC and Sassanians of 200 CE. The united and faithful barbaric tribes of Arabia were able to defeat two glorious civilizations of Persia and Byzantine, and took over an immense empire stretching from Morocco to India. The Arabic language grew from a limited Semitic tongue to dominate the Middle East, and Islam reshaped the Eastern cultural and religious outlook.

Sadly, western Iran was decimated by the Arab invasion, but the Persian culture survived in the Eastern provinces (especially Khorasan), where there was less resistance from the general populace and the Parthian minded nobility. Khorasan soon became the cradle of a new version of Persian identity and language (Farsi), as well as an independent military and political power.

The vicious internal Arab power struggles, which quickly assassinated 3 of the 4 original Muslim caliphs (Rashedin) and created the Sunni-Shia schism, enabled the independent minded Iranians to rapidly play a determining role in the Islamic Empire. In 750 CE, the Khorasan garrison rioted and lead by Abomuslim Khorasani, defeated the Umayyad caliph in Baghdad and brought their rivals (the Abbasids) to power. This victory initiated the dominance of Farsi governments in Khorasan, including the Taheri, the Safari, the Bueyeh and finally the Samanians.

The Taheri rule (810 CE) was a governorship well under the Caliph of Baghdad, but the Bueyeh actually conquered Baghdad and turned the Caliph into their puppet (year 945). The Samanians built a completely independent nation in Khorasan, where the Farsi language and culture flourished, and provided the bedrock for a distinct Iranian identity that has survived to this day. The Samanian kings were avid supporters of the Farsi identity, and supported such Iranian poets as Rudaki and Daghighi.

Despite their cultural and political greatness, the Samanian kings as well as the Abbasid caliphs soon became inundated with a massive migration of the Turkish tribes from Central Asia. Those Turks, who first enrolled their armies in the services of the Farsi and Arab kings, through their physical and character merits, subsequently took over the governance of the entire Middle East!

Influenced by the Samanian Farsi society, the new Turk rulers surprisingly maintained an avid support for the Farsi culture and their method of government (Viziers and Dabirs). The Ghaznavi Turks overthrew the Samanians in 1,005 CE and established a powerful empire in central Asia. They quickly converted to Sunni Islam, adopted Farsi as their court language, and provided a magnificent support to such Iranian luminaries as Beeroni, Farrokhi, Manuchehri and Ferdowsi.

It should be noted that the ‘new Turkish blood’ not only infiltrated and strengthened the Arabic and Persian nations, but also influenced the growth of the Jewish faith in Euro-Asia. After conversion to Judaism, a major Turkic tribe (the Khazars) established a new key Jewish state in Eastern Europe, which later on, significantly contributed to the Ashkenazi population in Russia, Poland and Germany.

The Turkish waves of invasion, from Central Asia, did not cease. The Seljuk Turks took over Khorasan and Iran, and then even captured Baghdad in 1,055 CE. They too became Sunni Muslim and very Farsi oriented, with most of their bureaucrats and Viziers chosen among the Iranians. Amazingly, the Seljuk even exceeded the Ghaznavi in their support of the Farsi culture, and cultivated such luminaries as Anvari and Khayyam. Their legendary vizier (Nezam-al-molk) created the first Iranian universities (Nezamieh). The Seljuk kings soon dominated the Muslim world with an empire stretching from central Asia to Arabia, and later became the forefathers to the Ottoman Empire.

The main challenge to the Seljuk rule came from the Shia Arab rulers of Egypt (the Fatimid), who opposed both the Sunni Caliphs of Baghdad, and the domineering Turks of Iran. The Fatimid established a network of supporters in Iran, the Esmaeli, who soon developed a viciously militant tactic and became famous as the Hashashin (Assassins).

That Shia-Sunni rivalry decimated the Seljuk government, as the Esmaeli established themselves in several formidable castles (including Alamot) and spread fear and terror throughout Iran. Their biggest ‘achievement’ was the assassination of the Iranian vizier (Nezam-al-molk) in 1092 CE, which escalated into a series of instabilities and wars of succession among the Seljuk.

The destabilized Seljuk princes fought one another and the Esmaeli for decades, causing widespread destruction of the cities and populace. Finally, another warlike Turkish tribe from Central Asia (the Khwarizmi) exploited the Seljuk/Esmaeli conflict and fought their bloody way into the Iranian plateau. The Khwarizm Shah briefly (1210 to 1220) ruled over a decimated country with weakened resources and scarce manpower. A great misfortune was that the widespread Iranian and even Muslim discord and internal blood-shedding coincided with an unprecedented Mongol unification and revival.

Many scholars consider the period prior to 1,220 CE as the Golden Age of Persia and even the golden age of Islam. At that time the Persian and the Abbasid culture, science and arts established themselves at such a magnificent plateau that none of the contemporary nations of the world could rival it. Moreover, the grand achievements of that period carried over to Europe (through the crusades period) and caused a global influence over the entire humanity’s development.

As examples, the philosophical and medical works of Avicenna were taught in the European universities until the 19th century. The mathematical contributions of Khayyam and Khwarizmi became the cornerstone of modern mathematics and astronomy. Furthermore, the literary contributions of Ferdowsi, Rudaki and Sadie established our distinct Farsi identity to this day.

Reference: The Golden Age of Persia, by Professor Richard Frye.

 


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Moment agha moment ...

by Asdollah Mirza (not verified) on

شما چطوری یهو زیر آبی زدین و از ایران رفتین به اسپانیا؟

خوبه خوبه؛ همون ایران خانمو حالش بیارین، اسپانیا بازی طلبتون!


Arash Monzavi-Kia

This one time

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

What this "Shia" is cheering for was the Muslim and Jewish ethnic cleansing of Spain, which was followed by the infamous Spanish Inquisition. What happened in medieval Spain was the equivalent of the genocides of Nazi Germany! 

Arash M-K


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Shiti Kharifeh or whatever

by whatever (not verified) on

Shiti Kharifeh or whatever name you may chose each time is still Not Verified

Suppose, I registered and you could verify or whatever is it that your gang back there in Iranian.com have up in your sleeves.

What difference does it make for you whether I'm commenting under my registered name or not.

Can someone tell me why he needs me to comment under an account name???

I'm certain that you're too much of a coward to post this comment.


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Anon whatever

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

Shia Khalifeh or whatever name you may chose each time is still Not Verified. You seem to come in with an Anon nick to drop your "brain dumps" and then with other nicks, to return and self-congratulate with "bah bah 100 afarin"! Grow up and sign in using your Iranian.Com account, if you expect an answer. 

Arash M-K

Sorry; got carried away.


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Pre Islamic Persian

by Shia Khalifa (not verified) on

Pre Islamic Persian architecture has influenced Greco-Roman, Byzantine, and Islamic architecture in that order:

Here is a bit of history.

...specifically recognisable Islamic architectural style emerged soon after the time of Muhammad, developing from localized adaptations of Roman, Egyptian, Byzantine, and Persian/Sassanid models. An early example may be identified as early as 691 AD with the completion of the Dome of the Rock (Qubbat al-Sakhrah) in Jerusalem. It featured interior vaulted spaces, a circular dome, and the use of stylized repeating decorative patterns (arabesque).
.

The Hagia Sophia in Istanbul also influenced Islamic architecture. When the Ottomans captured the city from the Byzantines, they converted the basilica to a mosque (now a museum) and incorporated Byzantine architectural elements into their own work (e.g. domes). The Hagia Sophia also served as a model for many Ottoman mosques such as the Shehzade Mosque, the Suleiman Mosque, and the Rüstem Pasha Mosque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_architecture

Byzantine architecture had a great influence on early Islamic architecture with its ... revered as the inspired word of G-d (the vocal is never spelled), ...
www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Islamic-architec...

SASANIAN PALACES& THEIR INFLUENCE IN EARLY ISLAMIC ARCHITECTURE

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Architecture/sasania...

Byzantine and Islamic architecture share a common trend: that is, the use of the dome. One example is the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, which was Islamic architecture, but illustrates the influence Byzantine bestowed as the dome style passed on to the Muslims. They often used "Persian' dome. We modernly refer to this as the Onion Dome. The most celebrated example is the Taj Mahal (A.D. 1630) at Agra, India. Byzantine's advancement in developing the dome created a new style in global architecture, for no other civilization had designed buildings, especially religious buildings, as did the Byzantines.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C005594/Medieval/byz...

Byzantine architecture was of crucial importance to the development of early ... period there is evidence of Islamic influence on Byzantine architecture, ...

Byzantine architecture evolved from Roman architecture. Eventually, a style emerged incorporating Near East influences and the Greek cross plan for church design. One of the great breakthroughs in the history of Western architecture occurred when Justinian's architects invented a complex system providing for a smooth transition from a square plan of the church to a circular dome (or domes) by means of squinches or pendentives. The prime example of early Byzantine religious architecture is the Hagia Sophia.

Roman Architecture evolved from Pre-Islamic Persian architecture:

Early history (3200 BC–625 BC); 3.2 Pre-Islamic Statehood (625 BC–651 AD) ..... which later influenced European Romanesque architecture. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran


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Shia Kalifa

by shia khalifa (not verified) on

I find this comment in another thread most insightful.

Mohammad0974691 (not verified)
Fri Oct 31, 2008 05:54 PM PDT

http://iranian.com/main/2008-368

. فرض کنید ما از فردا دست از تاریخ خود بکشیم، آیا از دزدیهای ما از کارمان و از کم فروشیها و گران فروشیهایمان میکاهد؟! «جیش دارم» جان، عیب از جای دیگر است. اینکه من قانونهای رانندگی را رعایت نمیکنم ارتباطی به افتخار به کورش ندارد. نگاه درست به تاریخ ایران (چه پیش و چه پس از اسلام) اتفاقا راهگشاست.

اما اگر منظور شما این است که : «از فخر پدر تو را چه حاصل؟»، کاملا درست میگویید. کورش و حافظ و مولوی و ... پدران ما بودند و نه خود ما. بیشتر اندیشمندان هم اکنون در غربند. در واقع آنها وارثان اصلی پدران دانشمند ما هستند و نه خود ما.


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The Islamic arcitecture...

by Ajam (not verified) on

Dear Shia Khalifah, you wrote: "Islam got much of its architecture from Byzantine churches." I don't find that a correct assessment.
To see the source of Arab/Islamic architectural influence all one has to do is visit the remnants of numreous Sassanid era buildings -- dating back two millenia, mostly in the Fars province. Some of these structures bear striking resemblence to mosques with the exception of minarets (which are considered the main addition of the Arab architecture)!


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The Spanish Evicted the muslim/Moore invaders!

by shia Khalife (not verified) on

Spain is not the whole of Europe. Europe was doing just fine before the muslims. At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe until they were stopped. We are in a new phase of a very old war.

In Italy, the Roman empire, as you probably know, was great for the education and economy of Europe. East of Rome, the extention of the Roman Empire was Byzantium, which was a good place to live as well. (Islam got much of its architecture from Byzantine churches.) To the north, much of europe was still tribal, but for the most part they lived peaceful. The spread of Christianity united them, and of course, Charlamagn was great for europe because he filled the power void left by the fall of Rome. His reign was great for education as well.

Contrary to what has been stated in Islamic revisionist history, the golden age of Spain actually came during the renaissance of the rest of europe, but the muslim invaders did bring knowledge and know-how that they had picked up from ancient greece and rome, as well as from the pre-islam middle east. Alexander the Great had spread ancient greek civilization to much of the known world. There was also ancient Egypt and Persia, which were two ancient cultures very advanced in science, math and medicine.
In reality, the only thing the muslim invaders brought to spain which was uniquely muslim was their religion.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain#Econo...
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Gol...

The spanish to evicted the muslims I Can you blame the victims for wanting to oust Islamic invaders?

There were lights of revival of learning in Ireland and elsewhere as well...

Where would the Islamic Civilization be without Byzantine and other Christian ,Greco-Roman,Persian Zoroastrian,Jewish, Hindu and other contributions?

For centuries, some villages in south east Spain have been celebrating popular festivals called “Moors and Christians”. These festivals celebrate the departure or the expulsion of the Moors (Muslims) who came through North Africa to occupy Spain for 800 years.

The festivals take flavors according to each village, however celebrations take the form of relics to the battles and customs of each side of the troops. Almost one hundred and fifty celebrations take place all over Spain. The festivities end with the informal and comic retreats to solidiers of the Moors and Christians.

In some villages, which may be seven, effigies for prophet Muhammed are burned as part of the festival every year. This tradition has been taking place now for centuries.

Here is an old photo of the effigy of mohammad:
http://www.elmundo.es/suplementos/cronica/2006/537...


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Islamic history of Europe

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on


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AMK: You should read this

by Anonymous... (not verified) on

AMK: You should read this blog:

http://iranian.com/main/node/43373


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Iranians did not need

by Shia Khalifeh (not verified) on

Iranians did not need Byzantine or Greeks. The Greeks and Byzantine copied the Persians. The Persians ruled over the Greeks for more than 300 years. But that is another topic altogether.

When I talk about enslavment, I'm not talking about physical aspects of slavery. There are psychological aspect that far outlast initial usurption of culture and dignity and are passed down to future generations.

Nihilism is one of those characterstic that is hallmark of people who have lost their identity and displaced their dignity. The Arab/muslims are innately fatalistic but not nihilistic because they were not stripped of their identity. They also transferred their fatalism to Iranians throguh Islam.

Manufacturing the Shia religion in and itself is emblamatic of this idenity crisis which culminated in rejection of Sunnism after 1000 years. Iran has been shia only for 500 years.

I'm certain that this identity crisis will continue to endure as perhaps turn into some other manifestation even after 1400 years.

The presence of this identity crisis has never been more salient than today in the "Islamic Republic".


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Listen to Omar....

by Anonymous Meow (not verified) on

These is a story about Omar the Caliph who brought islamic "culture" to iran...

One of Omar's vazirs went to him asking the Caliph for larger stipend. Omar wondered why this vazir wanted larger stipend. Vazir said that he has a lot of expenses since he acquired two new young wives in the past two years on top of the two wives that he had from before and with a big family he had to hire two servants to work for the family.

Omar said that vazir was right and Omar the Caliph will him with his expenses. Vazir joyed thinking that his stipend would increase.

However, Omar said that he would help Vazir reduce his expenses. Vazir wondered how!

Omar said, I reduce your expenses by helping you out with your wives. Go back and divorce the two young wives and bring me the two wives and the two servants and I will take care of them myself. Then you are left with only two remaining wives that can easily live well with the stipend that I pay you!

It seems that Mullas got a good lesson from Omar!


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Arash

by Anonymous Misha (not verified) on

You are biased against iranian cultural independence with selective selections of iranian history to justify your position. You are influenced by islamist propaganda intermixed with western ideas (like the anti-Semitic claim that you threw out) which are historically meaningless within the multi-cultural realities of iran.

Yes christians may have been as bad as moslims. I already said any hard-core ideology could get as bad. BUT Christians or Pinochet of Chile did nothing to MY country, islam did. Had Martians attacked MY country and forced their religion, god, and ideology down the throats of iranians so that likes of me had to flee, I would have been as much anti-Martian.

As for Anooshirvan: (1) I have not seen your claim in any other reliable source except for one source often quoted by islamists. That makes me suspicious because you are repeating what islamist have been saying to justify their atrocities and dominance. (2) Let's assume that Anooshirvan did what you claim he did: it was a passing act, when he passed away, his acts passed away with him. But we have been suffering from islam and its atrocities for 14 centuries and there is no light at the end of the tunnel as we speak. Almost all persian poets and philosophers bad-mouthed mullas and islamists, but none were as much critical of iranian kings. Why? Examples are (1) Ferdowsi does not open shahnameh with name of allah, but with god of essence and thought, aka ahuramazda. He criticizes arabs as you know. (2) Hafez constantly criticizes mullas, e.g., where he says mullas preach everybody to good but when they are in private they do all the nasty things. He longs for the pre-islamic period in so many of his poems. (3) Molavi made mullas of his time mad by not opening his Mathnavi with the name of allah, but with the sound of music. He picks on all principles of islam, and criticizes them in Mathnavi. (4) Khayyam... we all know what he said and why he was not allowed to be buried in moslim cemetery when he died.... Need I say more?

Any leader, including those in democracies, are of special bread and expectation of perfection from them is only for fools like iranians of 1979. In view of that, iran has been milder than any other country in its behaviour and scale of her misdeeds. Khomeini aside, we never had likes of Ashorbanipal, Bokht-al-nasr, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Changiz, Tatar, or Omar, who have all been aimlessly blood-thirsty.

You have read bits and pieces of this and that and are coming to hard conclusions. There are lots of books on sasanian by academic scholars that fundamentally disagree with you. That is not to say that iranian kings were saints, but many were saints compared to likes of Khomeini and rafsanjani, and did some good for the country in spite of their misdeeds.

You are falling into islamist trap that have searched 2500 years of literature to come up with blown-up reasons why iran is nothing but what islam brought to her. You trust anything that islamists propagate on the internet and youtube. But islam has never been kind to iran while it has never been able to stand on its own merits either. That is why islamist always try to give that ugly beast an iranian face, but in fact they never care about iran, as we have seen in the past 30 years.

An islamist recently claimed that this 2500 years is nothing but a jewish invention to prove the authenticity of their Torah. Another mulla called iranians who celebrate chahar-shanbeh soori as misguided idiots. Some more radical history professors in iran even go as far as denying the existence of iran as a civilized society before the shia safavids. You are falling for this crap.

A worthwhile book, praised by many, is a very recent book by Dr. Pourshariati on Sasanian. Unfortunately it is a rather thick book and I am only partially through it.


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Greek lovers

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

The Arabs conquest of Iran has no resemblance to the enslavement of the black Africa. Granted, many of Iranians who lost the war to the Arabs were initially captured, but it did not take long for the Iranians to take over the whole Islamic system! That resilience has been the eternal secret of Iranian survival: learn, adapt and compete. How else could a poor nation living on a vastly dry and inhospitable land survive for 3000 years?

What Arabs brought to Iran, which initiated the Golden Age, was the Greek and Byzantine knowledge and wisdom. On religious matters, Arabs followed the Jews, but on the intellectual front they were avid Greek lovers. They devoured, translated, deciphered and expanded on all the Classical works that they could get their hands on.

That was not the first time that Greek loving had come to Iran. Parthians were Hellenophiles too! For that reason the Parthian period is the closest that the ancient Iran ever came to a simple vote-based quasi democratic system.

What created the Golden Age of Islam and Iran, and later the European Renaissance, was the rediscovery of the Greek/Roman traditions of intellectual curiosity, scientific pursuit and open mindedness. The Omayyah or Abbasid or Seljuk were not religion freaks! They had music, dance, drinks, poets and freethinking intellectuals in their courts. Islam for them was just a cultural identity, not a strict dogma to live and die for.  

Arash M-K


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Misha

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

Do you think that the torturers of Chile or Cambodia were any better or worse than those of the Islamic Evin? Does history show that the Catholic Church has been any kinder than the Muslim ayatollahs? Even compare with the most glorious Persian king (Anoshirvan the Just) and see how he directs his troops to deal with the people of an occupied country (my website under ZarrinKoob).

The point is that the likes of Shah, Khomeini, Pinochet, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, etc are all ruthless, blood sucking dictators who can use a variety of different guises and justifications. The PROBLEM in each case is the fundamental weakness and backwardness of the host country that cannot sustain the rule of law, democracy and the dignity of poeple.

What made Athens eternally great is not its few glorious war victories, but the ability to sustain people's rule, democracy and intellectual civilization. In all of our history we have not been able to live without one form of religion or another. Even Shah used to justify his rule as god-given! You are right to say that religion is a simplified, contrived and biased version of truth. But remember that every society in every continent during the whole of human history, has had religion (or ideology) ruling over it; except for the secular and democratic civilizations.  

Arash M-K


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Just so you understand

by Anon 2 (not verified) on

"our distinct Farsi identity"

AMK,

My previous comment, saying that you are right, was obviously a sarcastic remark.

Why do you harbor such a hatred against Iranians? But you try very hard to hide it in your many articles. Are you Ben Madadi version 2.0? OK you have bashed Zoroastrianism, Islam, trying to change the name of the language in English, trying to wedge differences between people there, trying to weaken Iran's identity internationally with your new "Fars" & "Farsi" thing, what's next? you're going to bash the different Iranian khoresh dishes? don't forget bashing baba karam.


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Thank you both Misha and

by Shia Khalifeh (not verified) on

Thank you both Misha and Anonymous Observor.

AMK:

The Arab Islamic conquests of the seventh century were of the same magnitude as the Persian conquests of 500 BC, Macedonian’s of 300 BC,..

Persian conquest and Arab Conquests were only similar in land grabbing; however, Persians did not force their religion, language, customs, ideologies, etc. on the people they conquered. They did not commit cultural genocide on their conquered subjects. Please try to be fair if you want to be taken seriously.


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Shia Khalifeh

by Anonymous Misha (not verified) on

You brought up very interesting analogy. Actually treatment of black salves very much resembles historical treatment of iranians, such as black females were property of the owner and were raped at will with impunity. The same happened to iranian females, except that they were a kind prize offered to the occupying forces of islam. The Louvre museum displays a drawing of selling of iranian females in slave bazaar of the time by arabs as depicted by a christian monk of the time.

Even the anecdotes tell similar stories. We have heard about Shahrbanou, the daughter of Yazdgerd who ran away from invading arab armies into mountains and then forced into marrying Emam hussein when captured. We know that Narges was a slave in Emam Hassan Asgari who was impotent and was raping her at will thru sigheh. And we see the same behaviour fused into our islamic culture through ages and leading to widespread sexual corruption amongst islamist today.

However, there are major differences also between black slaves brought to america and iranians slaved by arabs.

(1) Blacks were brought in as slaves, arabs went into iran as looters and occupiers.

(2) Slave traders were from countries which were technologically ahead of africa and used that advancement in immoral ways. However, iranians were light years ahead of arabs and arabs had nothing to offer iranians in return for their dominance. On the contrary, they had to destroy what iranians had to be able to rule upon them. Examples are burning of the library of Ctesiphon by the order of Omar, mass murder of anyone who could read or write pahlavi language by the order of hajjaj-ibn yusef in Khawrazm and destruction of massive Vine fields in Fars (which destroyed iranian economy overnight), destruction of ancient iranian music and poetry and literature (later partially revived by likes of ferdowsi and Gorgani), destruction of art, pottery and metal work (which were carried to china to become famous in later ages as the capital of ceramic work). In return, a bunch of Bedouin arabs and their ONLY book koran had nothing of substance to offer iranians in return except for rules of prayers and copulations. That is why there was 200 years of stall after the arab invasion until iranians gradually got to re-invent what they had, this time wrongly attributed to islamic culture by hard core zealous islamists.

Finally, alexander, Changiz, and Tatar eventually dissolved or left to allow iranians to revive their culture and persist. Arab culture and religion never left iran and has been consuming iranian identity like cancer through the ages ever since. That is why iran was never as great as it once was pre-islam, and was open to multiple invasions post-islamic era; that has led us to the disaster that we see today, that even hard-core islamists with their total commitment to islam (at the cost of iran and iranians) cannot tolerate living in the society that they built and immigrate when they can, only to continue ranting against iranianism and for islamism in the comfort of their western lives and continue to attribute anything that iranians have done to islam, only to forget that had islam been able to offer anything useful, suadi arabia would have been something other than a rich yet backward country which would go back to its dark ages the day that its oil resources deplete.


Anonymous Observer

Shia Khalifah

by Anonymous Observer on

Excellent point!  I agree, and have always thought so.

Persia is Eternal.


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"That language has mixed

by Anon 2 (not verified) on

"That language has mixed with Arabic and turned into Farsi".

Are you speaking of the language which is known in English and some other languages as the Persian language?

Everyone else (the non-politically and ideoligically biased international scholars and experts) are wrong, but you are right.


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AMK: I do agree that Islam

by Shia Khalifeh (not verified) on

AMK: I do agree that Islam is not the problem with the Iranian society; however, Islam or better yet, Islamic colonization is the root cause of Iranians being nihilistic.

What happened to Iran is very similar to what happened to blacks in the US. Once you strip a people of their **Organic** identity, you will end up with 'confused and fatalistic' people. That is why Africans who immigrate to this country are much more successful career wise and spiritually than the American blacks. American blacks were stripped of their dignity and identity during slavery and it has caused a great confusion and damage to their collective psychee. Anytime a people are dispossessed and treated like slaves, the consequences are what we see in Iran and in the black community or Native American communities in the US.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_14_...

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cup_detail.taf...


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anon8: Islam is not a race.

by sickoflies (not verified) on

anon8: Islam is not a race. Should we consider Infidels as a race of their own? That would make Islam the most racist of all religions.

How's your Iraniantruth, nema??


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sickoflies: we're sick of tired old racism

by Anonymous8 (not verified) on

smhb you have it right.
Arabs did contribute a lot to our culture and vice versa.


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THE problem IS islam!

by Anonymous Misha (not verified) on

Human society and behavior is very complex and the gift that humans have is the ability to get educated and THINK.

Any ideology simplifies the complex society interactions and disables the mind, let it be religion or the communism or the Milton Friedman's pure capitalism. HOWEVER, the most dangerous form of ideology is the religion, the most oppressive enforced form of it is what is in iran, because that is claimed to know the absolute truth coming from God himself and completely disables the mind and the turns off the ability to think. It encourages anything but mental atrophy.

One only needs to see how a torturer tortured his subjects with total faith and thoughtlessness in Evin; or read hand-written letters of khomeini to see how confident he was in committing his crimes. That kind of confidence blinded so many and blurred the difference between religion and commitment to god and sadistic pleasure in torture, rape, and murder with no conscience whatsoever. Anytime islamist were in charge, they committed the same crimes with the same faith and confidence. They only rivaled likes of Changiz and Tatar and Alexander and Omar (and yes Ali the Caliph) in atrocity without conscious.


Arash Monzavi-Kia

SMHB - nice try, but no cigars

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

The current rotten 'Islamic' period in Iran is one of the most shameful episodes in our history, and hopefully, just a transitional phase from personal dictatorship (Shah) through ideological dictatorship (Khomeini), to democracy.

Here, we are talking about the Golden age of Persia, not the Gohden one! But don't worry, your turn will come. 

Arash M-K


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Root of our problems

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

Dear Misha:

The root of all our problems is not Islam! Neither the communist Afghanistan nor the ultra-nationalist Iraq, and not even the Shahanshahi Iran have been able to create a sustainable form of government in Middle East.

Blaming the Arabs for all our problems is like the Germans blaming the Jews for all their problems. It is simply anti-Semitic, misguided and wrong. Eliminating Arabs, Islam and mullahs by themselves are not going to solve any problems. Look at Iraq, where nothing has been achieved by removing a dictator.

Real change comes from within, it is hard to achieve and takes learning, time and gradual progress. Sorry, but there is no easy way out! 

Arash M-K


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Calling the ancient Greeks

by Shia Khalifeh (not verified) on

Calling the ancient Greeks 'primitive' is not fair or accurate. Our modern world owes its civilization to

You're taking Dr. David Khupenia's word out of context. Primitive also does not connot what you think in Western academic circle. Some Primitive cultures are more convoluted and complex than their contemporary ones.

You must have graduated in Iran, Quom.


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Learn from recent and old history...

by Anonymous Misha (not verified) on

The roots of all of our problems has been nothing but Islam. Had we stayed with our OWN culture, we would have found our way into a modern society. We would have certainly not been in such a disaster where we, the iranains, would have turned so backward that after 1400 years of embracing islam, 98% of us would voluntarily follow a half-arab half-indian mulla named khomeini who had nothing to offer us except for telling us what to do with a mule after we had sex with her [refer to: Tahrir-ol-masaael, by Ayatollah Khomeini].

Facts are hard to accept, but since the early days of islam, anytime islamists have been in charge, they brought us nothing but misery, they drove iranians out to india in the old days, to the west and P. gulf states and malaysia and Singapore these days, and brought foreigner in.

The evidence of their cultural murder of iran has been in front of us, whether it was when Omar mass murdered iranian priests or khomeini mass murdered our youth, whether it was Omar's troops who concubined iranian female victims of their crimes or rape of our young girls in prisons by the islamists. Only the blind would not learn a lesson and keep placing lip-stick on this ugly old pig named islam.

Iran will not change until we abandon our fanaticism with the religion of murder and deceit and force it into retreat.


Arash Monzavi-Kia

Persians vs. Greeks

by Arash Monzavi-Kia on

Calling the ancient Greeks 'primitive' is not fair or accurate. Our modern world owes its civilization to ancient Greece, more than any other ancient culture. The Persia of Cyrus (compared with the Athens of philosophers, scientists, poets and artists) was a primitive backwater, which almost took over a grand civilization. 

Arash M-K


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The Myth of Golden Age of Islam

by sickoflies (not verified) on

..."From Spain the Arabic philosophic literature was translated into Hebrew and Latin, which contributed to the development of modern European philosophy. In Egypt around the same time, Moses Maimonides (a Jew) and Ibn Khaldun made their contribution. A Christian, Constantine "the African," a native of Carthage, translated medical works from Arabic into Latin, thus introducing Greek medicine to the West. His translations of Hippocrates and Galen first gave the West a view of Greek medicine as a whole.

The "golden age" of Islamic art lasted from AD 750 to the mid-11th century, when ceramics, glass, metalwork, textiles, illuminated manuscripts, and woodwork flourished. Lustered glass became the greatest Islamic contribution to ceramics. Manuscript illumination became an important and greatly respected art, and miniature painting flourished in Iran. Calligraphy, an essential aspect of written Arabic, developed in manuscripts and architectural decoration.

In the exact sciences the contribution of Al-Khwarzimi, mathematician and astronomer, was considerable. Like Euclid, he wrote mathematical books that collected and arranged the discoveries of earlier mathematicians. His "Book of Integration and Equation" is a compilation of rules for solving linear and quadratic equations, as well as problems of geometry and proportion. Its translation into Latin in the 12th century provided the link between the great Hindu mathematicians and European scholars. A corruption of the book’s title resulted in the word algebra; a corruption of the author’s own name resulted in the term algorithm.

The problem with turning this list of intellectual achievements into a convincing "Islamic" golden age is that whatever flourished, did so not by reason of Islam but in spite of Islam. Moslems overran societies (Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish) that possessed intellectual sophistication in their own right and failed to completely destroy their cultures. To give it the credit for what the remnants of these cultures achieved is like crediting the Red Army for the survival of Chopin in Warsaw in 1970! Islam per se never encouraged science, in the sense of disinterested enquiry, because the only knowledge it accepts is religious knowledge.

the Moslem Empire inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle east, of Greece and of Persia, it added to them new and important innovations from outside, such as the manufacture of paper from China and decimal positional numbering from India." The decimal numbers were thus transmitted to the West, where they are still mistakenly known as "Arabic" numbers, honoring not their inventors but their transmitters.

Furthermore, the intellectual achievements of Islam’s "golden age" were of limited value. There was a lot of speculation and very little application, be it in technology or politics.

At the present day, for almost a thousand years even speculation has stopped, and the bounds of what is considered orthodox Islam have frozen, except when they have even contracted, as in the case of Wahabism. Those who try to push the fundamentals of Moslem thought any further into the light of modernity frequently pay for it with their lives.

The fundamentalists who ruled Afghanistan until recently and still rule in Iran hold up their supposed golden age as a model for their people and as a justification for their tyranny. Westerners should know better.