می بخور، منبر بسوزان - مردم آزاری نکن

عالی

ما که بی پیل و پشم از ایران گریخته و از این خاطرات بی بهره...
زیبا می نویسید همچون همیشه
عالی

.

.

My name suits me fine as is

But thanks for the suggestion.

I didn't say YOU left all the vicious comments:

'some of the negative comments on Ms. Zareie's blog were more than criticism, they were bordering vicious attacks in my opinion.'

Nor did you asked me to point you to vicious comments left by YOU:

'Finally, I do not see any of the comments as a vicious attack, but
if you wish to point me to any, please do so and I do respond.

And I do thinkyour reaction (including and beyond calling it Arajeef) was bordering vicious as well. Like I said, that is my opinion. I believe I am entitled to it.

Divaneh, niether one of us has to prove they are right in order for us to disagree. Like we agreed, we can agree to disagree. TakeKhar's advice from yesterday. It's over.

Divaneh, AM did not say that you used word "mobtazal"

AM is actually correct. I did use the word "mobtazal" in my initial comment. In any case, please note that I have evolved in my ideas regarding this subject and that is why I repeat my comment from another blog  of mine where I wrote a poem about a beautiful flower. Since, it is all related, I will insert my poem too and then the comment.

در آمد گلی زیبا

by Anahid Hojjati
12-Dec-2010 
 
در آمد گلی زیبا اما وحشی در باغچه
سه دنیا دیده نگاهی فکندند بر گل
اولی گفت
این گل ِ زیبا کارِ طبیعت است
نه آبی خواهد نه خورشیدی
دومی گفت
این که گل نیست
علفِ هرزه می باشد

سومین دنیا دیده
و تنها عاقل بینِ آنها
نگاهی بر گل افکند
سپس گفت :
گلِ زیبا , گلِ زیبا
می شوم من باغبانت

آناهید حجتی

Anahid Hojjati
Mon Dec 13, 2010 01:58 PM PST

After reading the comments on Shazdeh's blog titled

نجوای وسوسه

and participating on that thread, I got the idea for this poem. The ending means that the way that readers; particularly influential ones (the writers'  community), treats a writer/poet should be similar to what a bagheban would do. I still think people should be free to criticize a writer/poet's work. However, the writer/poet community should use a nicer language in criticizing a person's .

Antimozakhraf, please live your name

حکایت:

اسکندر با شخصی همنام او که پیوسته در جنگها می گریخت گفت: یا اسمت را تغییر بده، یا فعلت را

(نوادر، راغب اصفهانی)

حال ضد مزخرف عزیز شما هم یا فعلت را تغییر بده یا اسمت را. این چه مزخرفی است که می گویی؟ بنده کی گفتم که نوشتۀ مورد نظر یک تکه مدفوع است و یا کجا کلمۀ مبتذل را بکار بردم. من آن اراجیف خواندم (به معنای سخنان هجو و بیهوده) و این را هیچ فرد منصفی حملۀ وحشیانه نمی خواند

and as I don't like accusations, I repeat that I did not call that writing "a piece of crap" and am not responsible for anyone else's comments.    

Dear Khar

How ironic indeed. I wish I could have attended one of those meetings as I have great respect for the man.

Sorry that I lost it. I very much enjoyed your link to Ghamar Khanum. I didn't think this old series would be found on youtube. I remember it was very popular in our house although I was too little and cannot remember anything but a man who was keeping beetles, Mr Paakbaakhteh.

Just to let you know, Shazde has sent me a box of beer, make sure you are not short changed.

Dear Hoshang, about your comment addressed to me

I don't think it is ignorant or self centered to read between lines. I think as a matter of fact, it is wise not to believe in every line that others write. If I were to believe every line that one wrote, then IRI is heaven on earth.

, Ms. Zarei جوراب و دستکش بهارهis amazing

Regarding Ms. Zarei's writings, I wanted to add that her story titled:

with the following link:

//iranian.com/main/2010/nov-16

was one of the most moving writings that I have ever read on IC. Amazing writing.

Divaneh

Frankly I don't know how one could miss the viciousness unless one was bent on doing so! Calling her work 'Arajeef', 'Mobtazal' and 'a piece of crap' is vicious. Anyone with the slightest inclination to be fair would agree.

And I agree to disagree.

Divaneh Jaan, how ironic...

I just got home from a meeting on the occasion of the International Human Rights day, in which Mr. Bahram Moshiri was the guest speaker & also ostaad Esmail Tehrani played beautiful Santoor solo. A great meeting on the subject of human rights. 

PS, Divaneh Jaan my first comment was not pointed toward you at all. Please watch the video I included on that comment, I'm sure you will recognize who I was talking to.

Shazdeh Jaan, now, where's the beer you promised? :o)

شازده جان

شازده جان،
به خدا من به چشم خواهر مادری به خانمها نگاه میکنم!

نه بر اشتری سوارم

نه چو خر به زیر بارم

نه خداوند رعیت

نه غلام شهریارم

غم و اندوه فراوانی مردم ندارم

نفسی میکشم آهسته و عمری  به سر آرم

Thanks friends, for all your comments - I mean almost all ;-)

Souri: if someone constantly thinks that everyone else is a block-head and doesn't get it; chances are that she is.

Faramarz: stop flirting with everyone and everything boy - you are a bad influence on our innocent souls! Lock up your girls, people!

Dear Divaneh and Khar: we are all right - at least 50% of the time! Let's cool down and have a beer on me ... cheers.

Monda jan: I was reminded of a past girl friend on Friday, and wanted to be thankful of her love and courage. The moments of happiness must be cherished.

Dear Aladin and Bus Shofer: glad that you have enjoyed.

See you all next weekend.

Dear Khar

I have not told anyone what to write or not to write. I have expressed my view about a piece of writing. This is very normal and all writers have faced critics.

You tell me that I can choose to ignore it. I know you are a fan of Bahram Moshiri, and I am another of his fans. He has almost destroyed Khaleghi Motlagh's edition of Shahnameh through his reviews. Don't you think he has done a service to him and others by doing so? As I already said by leaving a comment I pay the writer back for her work, be it a compliment or a criticise. There are already some writers in IC that I don't read and don't comment on because I have been let down with their work more than a few times.

I do, as I said, exercise self-censorship but do not think it should be enforced on any one.

Dear Antimozakhraf

Thanks for your reply. I think we have to agree to disagree. We get two very different messages from that text and see two different things.

I repeat myself once more; the literature is not sacred and anything of value is any style is welcomed.

Finally, I do not see any of the comments as a vicious attack, but if you wish to point me to any, please do so and I do respond.

Dear Hoshang and AM, life intervenes

I have to give someone a ride otherwise I would engage you friends about this issue more.Hopefully later in the day.

Divaneh jaan, come down please

My point is to let people express themselves in any way they want. Who are you and I to tell the writer if they can or not write on this or that subject or should censor themselves, let’s not practice freedom of speech/expression just in words only.

I say it again, you have the freedom of choices not to read it if its not for you or you wish not to, but you can’t tell the writer what to write or how to write. Vasalaam.

Divaneh jan

Fitst, thank you for taking the time to respond at length, even though it was, as you stated, against your wishes to revisit the issue.

There are two levels on which I have difficulty seeing eye to eye with you on this issue. One is that some of the negative comments on Ms. Zareie's blog were more than criticism, they were bordering vicious attacks in my opinion. But that is of lesser concern to me as I am confident that the author is, as she has so gracefully exhibited, well equipped to handle rough criticism. The real issue is how and why the obvious romanicism in her story was missed by some. The last paragraph of Shazdeh's response below is a masterpiece of a response to this point which I could not possibly convey better myself. So I thank Shazdeh and second it.

Also, here are my thoughts on certain points in your response that may help communicate my take on the point of view you have on the subject:

Pointing to Shazdeh's piece here you write ' He resisted selflessly'. I must disagree, at least in part. Taking the virginity of a Komitehchi's daughter in the Islamic Republic of Iran would no doubt entail dire consequences. So as far as it being an entirely 'selfless' act, I beg to differ.(sorry Shazdeh jan, I am assuming the characters to be fictional). And if you take out the assumption of selflessness you also eliminate the 'romanticism', right?

About using certain words in your text, you ask 'did you like what I wrote or did it deplore
you.' Niether! You were using words to paint a picture and help convey a message, as was Ms. Zarei in her piece. In both cases I read, and read into them as the author intended I believe. 

About writing poems about farts and bodily discharges as a teenager...who know, perhaps they actually have value in painting the path of a young writer's mind as it crosses into adulthood. It could hold and convey the same sweet innocence that Ms Zareie's piece communicates on the subject of sex in young innocent mind before one has 'seen and done' it all. Besides, Ms Zareie's piece was not about farts and bodily discharge.

Joking about fart in the name of litrature... I and many others it seems didn't read it as a joke per se, nor do some of us consider litrature 'sacred'. If anything, writing should be a tool where one can freely express any thought, however taboo. I see the value in a piece of writing as much in the writer's style and ability as I do in the message it conveys.

' When we cheer for low level writings,
we get more low level writings from this and other authors.' I couldn't agree more Divaneh jan. We have at least fifteen dozen aspiring writers and poets with next to no talent and absolutely no command of language, Farsi or English,  who post regularly on IC and dozens of 'friends and admirers' who cheer them on in creating and publishing their rubbish on a daily basis. As a result these people have developed a false sense of accomplishment and have become so 'gostaakh' as to mindlessly criticize the works of clearly talented writers. But as you have seen and agreed, Ms Zareie is indeed talented. It is a shame that the prevalently low standards (both of publishing and conduct) on IC have all but alienated some excellent writers.

I'm not sure if we have come any closer to agreement on this. I would be happy to continue discussing if you wish to do so. And thank you again for taking the time.

Dear Anahid, isn't that sort of reading also referred to as

Lacunaian reading of the text?

//www.answers.com/topic/lacuna

Dash Shazdeh, Bareekalah keh

narafti toosh otherwise you would have been forced into shotgun marriage.

The reason that we are backward is you Khar

And other people like you who do not distinguish between criticising a work and censorship. To you disapproving of a writing is policing and debating someone work is an effort to silence the person.

You have proved with your comment very clearly that you are not for free speech and that is what has kept us back.

Not only read the khotot but don't forget labelayeshan either

The point I have which is a general point applicable to all writing is that sometimes as writers and commentators, we get overconfident, we think readers are just reading our lines. Truth is that , readers read many lines and they also read between lines. So if any of us think that others are stupid enough to just buy their lines, they better count me out.

To all you Holier than Thou folks...

holier-than-thou (Adjective)

Meaning: sanctimonious, self-righteously, or hypocritically pious

you say that you and your group and HEZB and ideology believes in free speech and expresion, so what is your problem?! your problem is; you don't belive in none that above you want to impose your narrow, simple mined morality on others and you are exactly why we as a nation and people we are so backwarded, that we can't even shutup for a second to let other folks have a chance to express themselves however way they like and wish, hence freedom of expression! 

NOBODY GAVE YOU THE TITLE OF MORALITY POLICE HERE. IF YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS FOR YOU, DON'T READ IT, IT'S THAT SIMPLE. DON'T IMPOSE YOUR WILL ON OTHERS.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2gnytOANDk

شازده جان، خط به خط لذت بردم

هم در محتوای بلاگت و هم در کامنت‌هایی‌ که مندرج فرمودی. 

در دوران تین ایجری از بزرگتران فامیل و همکلاسیهای شیطون، راجع به لاپایی (دادن و گرفتن)، محاسن و مشکلاتش، شنیده بودم. بد از قرنی کلمه را این دفعه به چشم رویت کردم.

قسمتی‌ از این بلاگ که بخصوص برایم جالب بود، این جاست:

آناهید

مچمو گرفتی، ای بی معرفت!

Dear Shazde

I have never thought that I know everything. We all have different opinions and I have not been so arrogant to think that other people have to find my view as dominant. I however think that by expressing my view I have been of more benefit to the author than by just ignoring it in silence.

I have come across the issue of using real name in the past and it does not enter my calculations. It is the contributor's choice to use either. I however did not think of that piece as porn and if I said you can find such writings in porn sites, it was because I could not think of any other place that you would find such material. I however unlike some others found it a deliberate attempt to disgust the reader and have explained that already. With Iranian women and love, I think Forough has said it perfectly.

I need to re-stress that I have criticised the writing and not the writer whom I have already admired for another work.

Faramarz, bemeeram ke ghasedak ra shekar kardand

Een Faramarz yek parche namak va yek adad ghasedeak hast. tanzesh ham khoobe.

فاعل و مفعول، عاشق و مقصود!

شازده و دیوانه عزیز زنده باشین که کارهایتون درجه یکه و بقیه مسائل هم میگذرد!

شازده جان، من نمیدونم که در و بر شما چه خبره، ولی اینجاها، دختران مظلوم ایرانی فاعل فعالن و شکارچیان قاصدک ها!

Shazdeh you still didn't get it!

The whole thing is not about the sex of the author. This is the direction that only you and AntiMozakhraf  are giving to the whole debate.

The story by itself didn't come up something beautiful. Even if it was written by a man, that wouldn't change anything!

Whether the author is a woman or a man, has nothing to do with the whole debate!

God!!! how many times and in how many different ways should the people explain it to you? That's exactly what we call "bouché"...

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!

دیوانه جان - با تشکر، تأسف و تذکر

مجددا از نظر لطفت متشکرم.

از اینکه ناراحت شدی متاسفم، چون دوستت دارم.

ولی‌ متوجه باش که هیچ کدام ما همه چیز را نمیدانیم، و بهتر است به نظر دیگران هم توجه نشان دهیم، و در موارد مرزی و مشکوک، حرمت نام نیک‌ نویسندگان که با اسم واقعی‌ مینگارند را حفظ کنیم. مثلا در مورد مقاله خانم زارعی، لطفا توجه کن که چند نفر از خانم‌ها و آقایان با اسم اصلی‌ خود از ایشان حمایت نمودند. در اینحال، بر چسب پورنوگرافیک زدن خلاف عقل سلیم است.

ایرانیان دات کام مانند میدان مبارزه گلادیاتور هاست. ما دون کیشوت‌های احساساتی‌ این وسط لخت می‌شویم و با چنگ و دندان به جان یک دیگر (در واقع به جان خودمان) می‌‌افتیم. حمله‌ها مجازی (ویرچوال) هستند، اما زخم‌ها واقعی‌ اند - لذات‌های پیروزی و شکست هم همینطور. بنابراین، چه بسا نوشته‌های خوب که تحویل گرفته نمیشوند، و چه بسا نویسندگان نازک پوست که فراری میگردند. پس تذکر من احمق به تو دیوانه آنکه، بهتر است هوای نگارندگان با اسم واقعی‌ را داشته باشیم - چون زخم آنها خیلی‌ دیرتر خوب میشود.

اما در مورد بحث شیرین "پورن" در مقابل هنر! من هم با شما کاملا موافقم که جای پورن بر صفحه اول این نشریه اینترنتی نیست - به چندین دلیل. اما مطلب خانم زارعی اصلا ربطی‌ به پورن ندارد! مقاله ایشان روزنی است به ذهن یک دختر جوان که در برابر رابطه جنسی‌-عاطفی با مردی مسن تر، به هزار و یک چیز جدی و شوخی‌ می‌‌اندیشد، که آنها را احتمالا نمی‌تواند به خود طرف بگوید، مبادا رابطه‌شان خدشه دار شود - پس روی تکه کاغذی مینویسد، که نامه‌ای میشود از ضمیر ناخود آگاه و پنهان او‌، به ضمیر ناخود آگاه و پنهان ما.

در "عشق ایرانی‌" مرد فعال است و زن مفعول - مرد عاشق است و زن مقصود - مرد فرهاد است و زن شیرین. هر چیزی که این "معادله ایده‌آل" را بر هم زند، مردود است و منفور. اما در واقع، زن هم انسانی‌ است با خیلی‌ از همان نیاز‌ها و ضعف‌ها و تلخی‌‌ها - که میترسد که میلرزد که میپوشاند - ولی‌ در درون خود، و شاید روی یک تکه کاغذ، همان میل به فعال بودن، همان تمایل به عشق کردن، و همان جذب و حذر تلخی‌ و زشتی را حفظ می‌کند.

Divaneh

Excellent!

You said it all! Not that you haven't said it before. but for some level of intelligence here, you need sometimes to repeat yourself. As we say it in French, some people are just "bouché"

The good behavior of the people, warms our heart and make us thankful.....  And the bad ones, just make us to recognize and appreciate the good ones!