Savalan

savalon

i agree. no more excuses. all minorites in iran should be treated as equals. federalism is a great solution. unity in diversity :)

Peace

Iranian Azerbaijani rights

Alright guys this whole "pan-turk" and "separatist" bit is starting to get really old. Can you guys (Persians) please come up with at least some kind of new accusation for anyone fighting for Azerbaijani rights? I mean come on, it's a little worn out.

benross - exactly

.

so I am assuming that you

so I am assuming that you are implying that these are agents of a bigger movement with a hidden agenda

No dear. I'm implying that they are nobodies.

Constituent is defined as one who authorizes another to act

so I am assuming that you are implying that these are agents of a bigger movement with a hidden agenda.  But, what I am saying is that as long as a constituency (maraam, party, hezb) comes under the umbrella of a bigger picture that signs on a Preamble such as: 

1. Integrity/unity of Iran

2. Freedom (gender, race, religion)

3. Separation of religion and government

4. Human rights

5...... 

6....... 

then, when you see hate-mongers, you should attack the individual rather than the whole movement, which will cause cracks in unification before the cement gets dry. 

One exception I can see is MKO who needs to come clean with Iranians, denounce their cultist/Islamist ways, stop acting like zombies when they listen to the Rajavi duo and dump their elite council including AyatolRajavis.

Dear MM

Very good observation. My comment was about constituency. An issue that these good for nothing 'assimilists' or federalists commentators don't have. It is out of context and off topic for my intent but necessary to remind that in Canada for example, we have a fedral AND monarchy system.

But the real issue is constituency. I challenge any of this morbidly out of touch commentators to repeat what they said, face to face to a native minority Iranian inside Iran of opposite conviction, without causing a dramatic change of the geography of their faces as a result!

The issue therefore is -as always has been- FREEDOM. Once we get to that freedom so that the society as a whole can express its thoughts and argue and counter-argue about issues, until society as a whole reach an understanding about a solution, these are all farts polluting the air abroad as a testimony to their boredom, and their only purpose is to differentiate themselves from the 'others'. To have their own 'tag' of their own 'street gang' painted everywhere to mark their imaginary 'territory'.

So your observation is very good but misplaced. The unity is not depending on good for nothing farts who think reading a Kasravi or Marx has provided them a divine vision.

XXX report to IRI bosses: Sleep tight - they will not unite

The arguments I read here are the reason the opposition will not unite for another 30 years or more.  I hate to say it, but as soon as we hear about another form of government, we just cannot help start spitting and pissing contests. 

* Has anyone seen the written constitution of the monarchists that they will bestow freedoms.... to the masses and.....

* Has anyone seen the federalists' manifesto that says they are for "balkanization" of Iran?

* etc.

The arguments I see here is why the opposition needs to focus on goals that starts with unity/integrity of Iran & equality for the masses instead of a form of government.

The so called "hate speeches" of individuals should not be the cause to pooh-pooh a whole movement.  Until we are able to focus on freedom goals on Iran, rather than a form of government, the title of my comment stands.

Here's what needs to happen

After this government is gone, we need to pass a law that will
let people of other ethnicities convert into a Persian ethnicity by
their own will for good.

Yes, the shah did
Persify/assimilate Iran's population during his reign, and Most
Iranians are fine with being called Persian, so we should take
advantage of this opportunity and unite the country by passing a
converting law.

Iran's 65% Persian including
ethnic sub-groups (Mazandaranis, tats, Gilaks, Lurs, tajik Iranians and
Tylish) anyways, even the baluch in Pakistan are refered to as persians
cause their language is so close to ours. The shah himself was a
Mazandarani persian if I'm correct. To me, The only people who wouldn't
convert in majority or atleast a big percentage are the Kurds, and that's because most live in moutain villages and such, but we
can't force them to be with us, so even if 50% choose to stay, it's
enough, the other ethnic groups would without a doubt stay with us.

When you refer to ethnicities as nationalities

Then you're obviously a seperatist racist bastard.

I
know these Toorks, they are one of the most racist and facsist minded
group of people in the world, they even put the arabs to shame, just
look at what they did to 1 million Armenians and what they're doing to
30 million Kurds in Turkey. Just
search about the grey wolves, who are behind 99% of these acts inside
Iran's Azerbeyjan from their headquarters in turkey and North
azerbeyjan.

Iranians need to realize that they
are facing a well organized militant like group that is trying to take land from us in anyway possible, we need
to create our own party, even if that means creating it in the diaspro.

Unity and loyalty is in Question

You can't expect everyone to have the same agenda's or goals for the
country when you're so ethnically diverse and divided, and federalism,
which basically is giving a big F.U to Iranians and Iran, would create
NATIONS INSIDE A NATION, do you know what that means? You can expect
all our neighbors in the mid-east to arsrape us into extinction in a
couple of decades.

We need to be united under one banner of flag, goal and ideology, and that ideology involves Iranian/Persian nationalism.

Oh I am sure the Rigi Brothers appreciated Your Swiss Cheese

Model particularly for the numerous holes guaranteed by That Cuckoo Republic of yours ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDplfsZxrbg&feature=related

So Long Fooladi Jaan !

The agenda of "people in the video" is irrelevant to federalism

Federalism is a perfect way of "managing" an ethnically diverse, multi national Country like Iran. Let us get away from Yoguslavia , because Tito being a communist puts some of us off, obviously.

let's look at some other federal governments: United States, Germany, Switzerland. What is wrong with them? A lot of us live in these countries quite happily after all

you dont like them because they are republics?

OK, how about the "constitutional monarchy" of united kingdom?  Scotland, Wales & NI have their own parliaments, set their own internal rules, have and promote their own languages (Gaelic and Welsh). UK is a federal state, all but in name. Ask any Brit and he'll tell you so..... 

Are you sure I am the one staring at his naval?

The bored political

The bored political activists outside the country are at it again. Let's start by talking to your constituency. Italian parliament is not your constituency. And then let's play by some ground rules. You are not going anywhere that way.

You Just Contradicted yourself ...

Federalism is in itself a premise to a Balkanization of IRan given that it encourages a political decentralization by weakening central government by delegating autonomy to regions. I don't have a problem with this concept as I said in my thread below if our frontiers were secure and the Middle East was something of a European Community which it is Not. But demanding This Today is TOTALLY Irresponsible on behalf of anyone who claims to even slightly love Iran.

What are you looking forward to ? Civil War or Turn Iran into an Ex Yougoslavia ? ...

Fooladi Jaan for someone who comes across as fairly intelligent and an apparently good hearted person You never stop to Amaze me with your naive contradictions ... 

We need to first make sure our country can be run according to basic democratic standards and principles ( And Boy ... Do We  Iranians have Alot to Chew on that Front Already without beating one another ) before distributing wishful promises without evaluating their risks they imply ...

This is not merely an IRI Problem it is about Our National Unity and Territorial Integrity and regardless of which regime is in Power, Some things are NOT Bargainable !

Stop Gazing At Your Navel And make an effort to Look At the Big Picture at Stake ...

The people in the videos I posted CLEARLY HAVE AN AGENDA : DESTROYING IRAN !

It may not turn you into a monarchist but it may help you come to terms with REALITY !

Delicate language

I don't have to read past the title, before begging to differ. The issue of different ethnicities in Iran(aka Iranian ethnicities) should not be labeled as problems, but as questions.

visit....//www.ipinst.org/

The federal system is essential in keeping Iran's integrity.

Otherwise, thanks to nearly a centruy of pahlavi's "aryan BS" and islamist shiatism, we'll be looking at balkanisation of Iran.

Make no mistakes about it.

It Seems Seperatists are campaigning hard lately (Watch)

Now trying to undermine the Yek Parcheghi Iran by bringing up the "Aryan" trump card arguments consisisting of accusing Reza Shah  of racism, belittling Ferdowsi and accusing the journalist Ali Reza Nourizadeh of Racism, even Shirin Ebadi  is criticized ...

Prof. Alireza Asgharzadeh : 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ibu9NMAe5k

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ZxqSh7YFs&feature=related

Iran's A Multi-Cultural and Multi-Ethnic Society - Prof. Alireza Asgharzadeh :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MVxPJgtUY&feature=related

Speech of Dr. Sedigheh Adalati :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNF2X3QEALo&feature=related

Non-Persian Nations and the Modern Process of Democratization in Iran (1/2) :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6CziUaQIE&feature=related

Non-Persian Nations and the Modern Process of Democratization in Iran (2/2):

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFFwyJQB30&feature=related

Btw

We have no such ethnic problems in Iran, these idiots exaggerate the
hell out of a small protest done a few years ago by 10 thousand or so
people, in a city of 3 million. Iranians get along with eachother, and
intermarry with eachother no matter the different ethnic groups. This
isn't Afghanistan or the U.s where everey group hates eachother.

Btw,
most non-Persians consider theirselves as part of the Iranian/Persian
people, celebrate our holidays, customs, traditions, play our
instruments, eat our food, have Persian names and most the most
important thing of all is that They have no problem with being
considered Persian either, so who are you to tell them what they are
and should be? don't be stupid to lower our numbers, and don't create
grudges bewteen ethnic groups by introducing a federalist law.

We had no problems under the shah. It's obvious that the U.s and Israel are behind these seperatists.

Mrx

Agree with you brother. A federal system in iran would be the end of
our nation. These Turke khar seperatists hide under federalism like a
bunch of dogs, for example, look how she refers to ethnciities as
"nationalities" wtf?

Either speak Persian or get the fvck out! Most Iranians have no problem with this law anyways, so who cares?

And
for all you idiots praising federalism, open your eyes, read about it,
and stop saying yes to everything so quickly. There's a reason why even
in the U.s, supposedly the worlds most diverse country, doesn't have
such federalism when it comes to ethnic groups, you speak English only
as your main language.

Bad idea

Federalism as invisoned by these fine folks is based on ethnicty (The worst kind of federalism imagined)  and a federalism like this will ultimatley lead to civil war, chaos, break up and disintegration of a country which is why the seperatiss of yesterday are so in favor of it today, becuase in the end that's where you end up! 

Federalism of this kind makes ethnicity a number one issue in a country that never had any obsession with ethnicity in the first place and through thousend years of it's history, it's people married one another and moved from one region to another as a result no province in Iran are enthincly pure as these folks think they are. The speaker claims:

"although Iranian Turks are the largest nation in Iran, they are not involved in political power. "

This person who apparently hasn't read a page of Iranian history doesn't  realize more so called Turkish dynatsy ruled Iran in the past thousend year than any other! and a region slipping from one eceonmic leve to another doesn't exactly signify discrimination against that region.Missisipi is a poorest state in U.S so apparently buisness's and people discriminate against it on purpose!

What Iran needs and was going to be implemented in the late 70's before mullah took over is decentralisation financial and some local matters.

Our new I.Com contributor here

Beats the drum of separatism under the cloak of federalizm (Yes Z). As noted in the other blog by many (but expressed differently): "I smell a rat".

The solution to Iran's problems is unity not separation.

The only absolute speration that MUST happen in Iran is that of the religon and politics by about 100 parsecs. 

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

The cancer of

Iran is IRR.

Can you name one group of Iranians, except the islamist & traitors, that have not been abused by IRR in some form, regardless of what part of Iran they are from?

Can you explain why a dominant portion of these thugs are Azeris? as are the dominant portion of blood sucking bazaar?

Can you explain why your argument starts with Azerbaijan instead of Iran?

Can you distinctly call yourself Iranian without qualifications?

The problem is not the form of government including Federalism. The problem is your ethnocentric view of Iran and future of Iranian government.

Sattar Khan and Bagher khan, or for that matter Armenian Yeprem Khan did not fight for Azerbaijan, they fought for a united, cohesive, independent IRAN.

Based on your short history here on IC, you madam are an Azeri nationalist (never mind the oxymoron) and a separatist; therefore, you are part of the problem not the solution.

How you make the leap of faith from stating the obvious that Iran needs democracy, to Federalism is the solution shows your tunnel vision on Azerbaijan rather than Iran. A unity council will replace IRR and then thebest form of secular government that can provide full civil & social rights to ALL Iranians, can be put to referendum after a national education process.

I can guarantee you, as long as it comes from the angle you come at it, I will fight against it hardest with Azeri part of my makup. 

As I said in your other blog,  Adamnan eshak olmaseidi, eshakin biri yuz million gheimatiydi. 

OKtaby

The Iranian minorities get

The Iranian minorities get the short end of the stick when it come to dealing with the central government, so obviously they see a need for semi-autonomous states as in federalism.  But, if the law expressed and enforced freedom of race, gender, religion as well as using local languages, the need for federalism will be lessoned.

Even Reza Pahlavi called for the unification of secular democratic movements in Iran to show one voice against IRI.  All democratic voices should be free to express and push for their form of government, just as RP, I assume, will be pushing for secular monarchy.

Even so, the US operates as a form of federalism and the "majority" are happy about the system.  So, let's not pooh-pooh others' ways already.  As it is said before: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Agree With D Kadivar argument

I support the republican model ,

However I find myself in agreement with D Kadivar and his argument against Federalism.

I was however surprised to read

"

I say this all the more comfortably that within my own camp ( Constitutional Monarchists that is ...) there are talks and promises being delivered that if Iran is liberated such a scenario or eventuality can be considered

"

NO To "Federalism" YES to "Partnership" (i.e: Round Table)

Another Clueless Suggestion product of another Immature proposition, itself product of an even more immature mind which not surprisingly gets the endorsement of individuals who can hardly distinguish between the symbolic significance in a nation's collective psyche of such terminologies as Parsi vs Farsi ...

Sorry to disappoint you in your blind enthusiatic endorsements but Federalism Only makes sense in a Region (I.e: Europe) where Frontiers are Secure and the territorial integrity of a nation is not subject to threat.

Federalism in Germany made sense (and makes sense today ) including during the Cold War on it's Western Partition was immersed within the Western European Union and had Only One Frontier to be worried about and that was it's Eastern Front with Check Point Charlie:

Berlin, Germany: Checkpoint Charlie:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksaW2gjpVbs

It did not stop it from Uniting under One Flag after the Eastern Communist Bloc Melted and the Berlin Wall torn down ...

But for Iran given the political dynamics and geostrategic rivalries in the region that is another matter ...

On the otherhand I can fully understand when ethnic, religious or cultural minorities demand more autonomy, freedom of action and responsability but then that is no different from let's say Scotland in a Constitutional Monarchy like Great Britain where has found a strong spokesperson in the person of Sean Connery:

SNP supporter Sean Connery speaking - 1999:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6cc6QobxEo

Which did not stop him from entusiastically accepting Knighthood from the Tip of the Sword of Queen Elizabeth herself:

//www.seanconnery.com/biography/knighthood/

Debate over SNP supporter Sean Connery's knighthood :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFLt6ppJ84

The same could be said in Republican France of the Corsicans:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aHxaTjavCQ

or the Basque's(Which are divided between France's Republic and Spain's Monarchy) :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWADFDn6VY&feature=fvst 

both regions which are distinguished by a different language and ethnic background that truly separates them culturally from the rest of the country. Yet they are both part of the Undivisible French Republic which refuses to grant them independance which has been the source often of a violent rejection of Republican Rule by a minor few trying to impose it's stubborn vision on the rest of the population which has no problem in living under the same roof ( including administratively) as the rest of the nation.

I don't wish to brandish a paranoiac argument in defense of territorial integrity each time a minority ( ethnic, religious, linguistic or other ...) has demands which can be understandable and even justifiable in some cases as is the case of the Kurds for instance who have been subject to discrimination by the central government particularly after the Revolution :

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Pulitzer Prize Photo of Rebels Executed by Iran's Revolutionaries (1979)

Secret War on Iran

Iran Urges Iraqi Action On Kurdish Rebels which it brands as "Terrorist Groups" 

Human Rights Watch: "End Repression in Kurdish Areas of Iran"

David & Layla : When Love Transcends Religious Prejudice by Darius KADIVAR

A PERSIAN ROSE BLOOMS: An Interview with actress Shiva Rose McDermott by Darius KADIVAR

THE PRICE OF FREEDOM: Manouchehr Vossough Leaves Iran thanks to Kurd Rebels (1978/79)

DIPLOMATIC HISTORY: Shah of Iran Grants Assylum to Kurdish Prince Dawood Beg Jaff (1958)

DIPLOMATIC HISTORY: Shah of Iran Grants Assylum to Kurdish Prince Dawood Beg Jaff (1958)

ROYALTY AND THE PEOPLE: Shah meets Kurdish Representatives (1948)

But Federalism in a region like the Middle East entirely plunged in a constant struggle of geo strategic rivalries which leave little doubt as to the instrumentalization of regional divisions from all powers present makes the very idea of federalism as inadequate to the realities of a nation's survival and peaceful coexistance.

I say this all the more comfortably that within my own camp ( Constitutional Monarchists that is ...) there are talks and promises being delivered that if Iran is liberated such a scenario or eventuality can be considered. I know that the Crown Prince for instance is not hostile to the idea of Federalism. I am ... which means that debate even amongst Constitutionalists is not only possible But healthy.

From that point of view I share some of former Minister of Health of Dr. Shapour Bakhtiar's government, Manouchehr Razmara's concerns:

See Blog by Tapesh

Which does not stop me from being loyal to the Monarchist cause and the the man I consider as my Sovereign Crown Prince Reza nevertheless ...

But Federalism has it's roots in the idea that we cannot live under the same roof without sharing responsabilities of governance in a fair and equitable way.

I stand against that argument for several reasons which I could develope if I had more time but which can be boiled down to three arguments:

1) Democracy is a collective experience which we have failed to practice to the fullest in the past 100 years. We need to prove we can already agree to disagree and live through the political transition from not only the current dictatorship but the democratic society which is supposed to emerge with it's huge demands for freedom. That in itself is a task which we need to come to terms with in the first place in order to prove to ourselves that we can handle democracy and political sharing in a mature way.

2) Before creating dozen's of individual constitutions in order to satisfy a given minority ( in a federal sense of the word) in a bid to opportunistically win their votes, we need to apply a constitution which will be accepted by the majority of the people and mutually acceptable between the elected governing body(i.e: The government) and the nation at large (i.e:  the people).

3) We are Not even culturally Prepared for a United States of IRANICA !

The Transition between a Post IRI Iran and a Fully Democratic Iran with a Flexible institution which can guarantee individual and collective rights, freedom of assembly and Human Rights all within a democratic framework is to ultimate goal seeked by all who genuinely believe in democracy regardless of which ideological, philisophical or political background they belong or wish to belong to.

Federalism can indeed be a far fetched and commendable goal in the context of a Middle East where country's live in peaceful coexistance and fully understand the advantages and responsabilities that such a social construction implies. 

Outside such an ideal context which can only be achieved on the long run if let's say Israel and it's Arab neighbours make peace and that the region evolves towards democratic institutions regardless of whether or not they are Republics like Syria or Egypt or Monarchies like Jordan or Saudi Arabia, ( and even maybe Constitutional Monarchy like Iran in a forseable Future if it were to happen) Federalism is nothing but Smoke in the eyes. It is merely a separatis argument which consists of saying we cannot get along as a nation and therefore let's all selfishly try and govern ourselves without having to rely on the central government.

Sorry that will be simply the end of Iran as we know it.

The current problems faced by the incompetant IRI in regard to the Baloutch terrorist groups is another result of the disastrous policies undertaken by the Current Religious Republic in denying any form of recognition and respect for it's minorities. Something which was less the case be it symbolically or publically under the Monarchy where the Crown was the Symbol of National Unity:

ROYALTY AND THE PEOPLE: Farah Pays Respect to Baloutch Sunni Minority (1970's)

ROYALTY AND THE PEOPLE: Shah meets Kurdish Representatives (1948)

As such Federalism is simply a REPUBLICAN OFFSPRING whose historical roots and ramifications are PERFECTLY KNOWN to All who have a minimum knowledge in our contemporary history :

Video: Soviet Propaganda Film - Iran, Tabriz 1945-46

REPUBLICAN OFFSPRING: Massoud Rajavi at Tehran University during Presidential Campaign (1980)

As Such I firmly am opposed to Federalism on the short term including in a Post IRI Iran. On a long term basis such demands have and should have a place for an open debate in a democratically elected parliament given that everything is subject to change in society.

If collectively we learn to accept such differences and the possibility of peacefully granting freedom/autonomy or even independance of a given region due to incompatible differences which cannot be overcome otherwise. Then Why Not ? But if France cannot give up Corsica or the Basque countryside nor Great Britain give up Scotland ( and I am not even mentioning their old feud with their Irish Neighbours) I do not see why we should precipitate our own chances of a collective national coexistance under one Roof embodied by a Fully Democratic Constitution in the name of another obscure and divisive concept called A "Federal Republic" or "Federalism" for that matter. Which is nothing else than being a Party Pooper and wanting to play it solo as in a classroom when one student doesn't wish to be a good sport in a collective exercise or homework.

Nope Sorry Folks: If we wish to see a democratic Iran we need to survive the COLLECTIVE TEST of Living under  ONE CONSTITUION be it gathered around a "Round Table" where each party can have it's say and debate freely and without fear on the options available:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtKu2ovTYc

But playing it solo as suggested in such federalistic demands even cloaked under the respectable disguise of "intellectual discourse" will be fatal to any successful democratic experience in a Post IRI Iran.

I can only regret that our current Intellectual Elite particularly in our ever clueless diaspora is essentially composed of wishful UNIMAGINATIVE thinkers and day dreamers but alas Not of well thought intellectually honest and realistic Visionaries as one of our greatest patriots who paid the ultimate price for that collective dream we call "Democracy and Human Rights" ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNBFTWXz5_Q

Lastly may I quote a Great Canadian author's wise words which are alas equally applicable to our country's sad predicament today:

 "A Country that Loses it's Poetic Vision is a Country that faces death" -Saul Bellow

My Humble Opinion,

DK

Good Suggestion for

Future IRAN. Once This Criminal regime collapses Hopefully soon.  There is a vital need for unity among IRANIANs to install a democratic federal system.  I can not wait to see that day! 

federalism

would work well in iran. the geography and cultural diversity of iran is well suited to a federal system.

Peace