"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth"

It's like asking a child

It's like asking a child from 2 divorced parents who they love more.  I think for most Iranians nationality trumps religiosity any day.  Shia Iranians wouldn't back Karballa.  We proved that in an 8 year war.

What an idiotic question/premise.

And you expect Muslim Iranians to site with Israel?!  LOL

HollyUSA

It was your intention that was the issue. Go on and be sarcastic, you fool noone, as others have said. And by the way, I do not live in a free society, I live in Iran. I do have to worry my "little head" regarding my country. The first thing that IRI does when it has problems it cracks down on minorities and other convenient scapegoats. And the likes of you do not help in posting blogs that are divisive in nature with underhand intentions. So we can do with less fingerpointing from, what is the American word, “Smartasses” like you  .

Anvar

Agreed. Likewise, looking forward to future exchanges.

Aghaye Shipish

Thank you for your two cents. Fortunately we both live in a free
society where we get to dismiss what we want based on our assessment of what is appropriate.
As for Bijan, allow me to send you a pair of glasses so that you can
see I didn't dismiss his comments or alternatively, you can just take my word for it and not  worry your l'il head about it my
friend.

KouroshS

The best thing in life?? Ok, you are right, it is one of the best things in life.

And crazy at it may seem, in these crazy times, voices of optimism like your own, do bring some level of hope and faith. So for that, I thank you and I'll leave it at that without getting into the alleged 'myths' ;) Have a great Sunday.

HollyUSA jan

I picked the avatar to always remind me of the best thing in life:)

That what i was going to tell you in my previous post which i forgot, which is that i do realize your lack of faith in many of these meetings on the international scale. and i do get that you are cautious, but i think that based on what we have seen so far, all the evidence point to some cooling down on either side.

As shallow and thoughtless The israeli leaders maybe, i think that they are calculating enough to know what their capabilities are in the real sense.

On that last point and on your worries on this matter, I again draw your attention to what Bijan AM said about how The attacks and raids were conducted in Syria and Iraq. Of course you, I and nobody else wants an inavsion to happen to iran, but i do separate the facts and the myths about this should there be one.

HollyUSA

I don't ignore comments that are relevant and intelligently verbalized, regardless how I may disagree with them. I do ignore rantings of people with an agenda who seem to have a library (and a limited one I might add) of standard BS that they seem to keep copy pasting regardless of what has been said on a blog.

Sir/ Madam , you seem to conveniently dismiss comments that show your true colours. And attempt to discredit commentators that have correctly put you in your place. It is you who is speaking the "BS" and taking language to such a level.

People commenting here, irrespective of their religeon and geographical location, visit this site because they are Iranian and because they care about Iran. People abroad without family in Iran, like Bijan, do not have to waste their time reading your type of comments and allegations if they did not think of themselves as Iranian. They care about Iran and are as Patriotic as you.

delete

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Why Would Israel Attack Iran?

Think about it for a moment. Why would Israel attack Iran? We have a common enemy in Arabs. We have both been plagued by the intolerance and hegemony of the Sami race for thousands of years. If Israel takes any covert action, it would be against the Arab occupiers of Iran. It will never involve overt bombing or the like. Those would lead to a war against the peoples of Iran. Any such attack would be against the interests of Israel and Iran.

Looking forward to future…

*HollyUSA* - Thank you for taking the time to reply.  I am not in the habit of arguing back and forth.  If it is alright with you, instead of further nit-picking your comments, I’ll just end this line of discussion here; since I don’t have any particular arguments with you.  We have both said enough on this subject (at least I feel I have).  

I look forward to reading your future blogs and possibly exchanging ideas with you.

Furthermore, if I have indeed misconstrued your attitude towards certain minorities, I shall gladly stand corrected and apologize.

Anvar

Tweety jan

Thank you azizam. I am humbled by your compliments. Your avatar reminds
me of a little yellow chick (I know Tweety is a Canary but he's plump
and yellow like a chick). I'll post the story on the Animals United
blog so as to not go off topic here more than I have.

KouroshS

Thank you for your post. I sincerely hope and wish with ALL my heart that you and Ostaad are correct in your assessment. I would also love to be able to have absolute faith in the International community and the indications thus far of the Geneva talks. History unfortunately however, has taught me to view cautiously. But I do still have faith (don't ask me why!)

I wasn't suggesting that Israel has 'clubbed' Iran. Just that if it does launch a military attack in response to the rhetorical strategies, it would amount to clubbing in response to enticing. 

'You can not compare the cases when Israel goes out and bombs hammas and
hezbollah's positions with unfortunate civilian casualties, with when
they aim for nuclear facilties of a country.'  Kourosh jan, I'd say the civilian casualties in Palestine are a little more than 'unfortunate'. I am not comparing the two but I can't turn a blind eye to what Israel's govt. has shown it is capable and culpable of. Nor am I comfortable with the risks associated with a military attack by any foreign power on Iran even if only aimed at nuclear facilities. I don't want a military attack on my country Period! I'm sure you can understand that.

p.s. Your avatar makes me hungry!

Anvar

I don't ignore comments that are relevant and intelligently verbalized, regardless how I may disagree with them. I do ignore rantings of people with an agenda who seem to have a library (and a limited one I might add) of standard BS that they seem to keep copy pasting regardless of what has been said on a blog. Afterall, if we can't give each other credit enough to assume we say what we mean and mean what we say, and respond accordingly, then what is the point of an exchange?

With regard to the 'sanitation' of the topic, it was done by agreement and at the suggestion of other members. Read the comments if you haven't. I personally saw no need for it at all since I wasn't hiding anything nor do or did I regret it's original content. It was a valid question, plain and simple with no hidden agenda. But if it could be in the opinion of most, improved to help diffuse un-intended outrage and aid in continuation of the dialogue in a constructive manner, why not change it? If you notice I marked the change time in the notes. And after that I posted my response to Bijan in which I re-affirmed clearly and in more detail why I was asking the original question at all. What would be the point of 'sanitizing' as you call it, if I was going to leave tracks such as the change notes or go back and 'soil (?)' it again by reiterating? You under estimate my candor Sir.

With regard to your quote of another post of mine: a) you neglected to paste the Subject of my post. It reads ' In your PARTICULAR case...' meaning F.F.'s. And there is more to that single word that meets your eye.   b) you neglected to link to the page that shows his comments to which I responded. Allow me to: //iranian.com/main/blog/faramarz-fateh/israel-and-jews-rule-world-deal-it    c) I would, albeit admittedly crude and insensitive, take the same tone if a fanatic ammameh wearing moslem spewed the same BS that FF regularly does. Like I said before, I don't discriminate. Trash is trash and I have no tolerance or sympathy for it.  d) Baz ham kam lotfi mikonid jenabe Anvar. I knew full well that I had made that remark and would not have made it (AND could have 'sanitized' it) if I was not willing to stand by it. In fact I was reminded of it when I noted amongst the usual suspects (on all sides) missing on this blog, his royal trashness.

I'm happy to hear that you didn't feel degraded. I didn't make me happy when I thought you did. I also trust and appreciate your explanations as to not being a kneejerk reactionary. I do still disagree however, that my question was of a degrading nature.

I've noted and considered your advice on my "communication methods". But if it is all the same to you, I think I will keep them until I am convinced otherwise.

Thank you.

Dear Tweety Bird

Once you get to know me better, you’ll see that I’m very fun and ‘khosh aghlAgh’.  But, you’ll only appreciate me when I tell Sylvester to keep away from you and go on a diet!

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx43vcV2aX0

Anvar

Anvar

I think you're cute too, in a serious badakhlAgh kind of way...  ;-)

HollyUSA

I think ostaad has driven the point perfectly and that is what i see and hear on so many non-network dependent news sources, as well.  Belive me . there is a thriving market of these sources out there. I seriously doubt if there are threats being issued on a daily basis and so some of our friends on this site need to stop spreading baseless rumors. As a matter of fact all those khato neshoon keshi has stopped for a while since the october talks came up.

IF and when you entice me, in this case let's say ahmadinejad has enticed israel and you can not deny that he has provoked some anti -iri and anti-iranian sentiments among fanatic and nationalist jews within israel, But has israel really responded by clubbing anyone? Keep in mind that we are talking about iran and not their neighbors. Israel does not feel at ease with the possibility of iran having weapons of nuclear nature, But does merely saying that and criticizing it constitute a threat and responding back in an unmeasured sort of way? Had israel committed such act, then perhaps you would be in the position to make such a claim. But nothing has happened and nothing WILL happen.

 You have got to have faith in the recent results in the aftermath of The geneva talks and you need to remember that it was iran who came out of the gate presenting their package and wanting to talk. SO they know whom they are up against.

You can not compare the cases when Israel goes out and bombs hammas and hezbollah's positions with unfortunate civilian casualties, with when they aim for nuclear facilties of a country. Not that i am suggesting you should give israel credit or anything, but these are two separate and unique operations and comparing them would be unfair.

Sensibility not Sensitivity

Now that the title, content, and context of this blog have gotten sanitized, we should remember what it was originally:  “A Question To All Iranian Jews” was the title, and “Which side would you support if Israel attacked Iran?” was the question.  My earlier comments (and those by others) were specifically geared towards the original content and may seem out of place now.  I encourage the author to also include the exact content of what has been removed.

*Bijan A M* and *Artificial Intelligence* - Thank you for your comments addressed to me.

*Little Tweet* - Your avatar is so cute and innocent looking that I’m almost tempted to overlook your comment but, in my opinion, it is not ‘courageous’ for the ones in the majority to perpetuate stereo-typical myths about minorities.  It’s more like bullying.

*kharmagas* - I’m afraid I don’t see how you pointed out ‘some serious flaws’ in my statements.  For one, you confirmed that Israel had indeed provided arms to IRI.  And for your objection to my 97% ratio; I was being generous by trying to exclude those who, for personal reasons, do not consider themselves a Muslim any longer.  Most globally acceptable statistics put the percentage of Muslims in Iran at about 98.5%.  Lastly, I don’t think it would be appropriate for the two of us, non-Muslims, to decide which one is a real Muslim or which one is not. 

*HollyUSA* - To be fair with you, I must indicate that my impression of your attitude was formed by both the original content of this blog and also by what you had written, in another blog, to someone you thought to be Jewish:
//iranian.com/main/comment/reply/83088/22...

If you don’t mind, I’ll just reprint it here in case that entry also gets sanitized:

* HollyUSA* to * Faramarz_Fateh*:
[[[[[ I'd say you're a better liar than us; you know how to defraud and steal better than us and I'd bet you're ugly as sin outside just as you have demonstrated you are inside.
It is sundown. Boro nalbekito saret kon verd bekhoon. ]]]]]

I am open-minded and will certainly reconsider if I have formed the wrong impression of you.

In regard to your comment: “…our over sensitiveness and knee jerk reactionary nature…” – Do not mistake the sensibility of those who objected to your assertions with their oversensitivity.  My empathy toward Jews (or women, or other minorities – ethnic or religious) does not mean that I am a ‘knee jerk reactionary’.  Otherwise, I would’ve reacted to your earlier comments.  Indeed, I might have even remained silent had you directly attacked me or my beliefs.

As for your comment: “…if some stranger on the internet can degrade us with a question…” – *capt_ayhab* and few others have clearly demonstrated the degrading nature of your comments and viewpoints.  However, just because your comments are indeed degrading, does not mean that those of us with sensibility are actually degraded.  I am regretful that such attitudes (referring to the original blog and your ‘nalbeki’ comment) are still prevalent in the Iranian culture.  I am disheartened that if a Holly in USA can carry such feelings then what can I expect from deprived women from the most remote regions in Iran?  I am saddened but not degraded.

As for your repeated claims that you don’t mean to be offensive or divisive…Well, judging by all the comments here, you obviously are!  I suggest that you alter your communication methods so that what you express reflects a better picture of your alleged intent.  Or, once you’ve honestly expressed your deeply rooted feelings, do not go back to make them appear benign because some of us were not smart enough to read or understand what you wrote.  We clearly got what you meant.

Feel free to dismiss my comments like you did *sag koochooloo*’s.  I assure you that it will not bother me in the least or violate my sensitivities.  I’ll just sit back and enjoy the comments in this conveniently and cleverly altered blog.

Anvar

HollyUSA and kharmagas, here it is in a nutshell:

Israel cannot, I'm not saying it not itching to do so, attack Iran because it is too far, too small and it is under the US's beck and call, despite of all the money and influence its supporter exert in the US congress and the administration. Israel has not won a single war without the massive support from others, be it France the US and even the Shah of Iran to some extent particularly during the Yom Kippur war. Israel will not get the "green light" from the US and it has certainly received a big "red light" singal from Russia.

Geopolitically Israel knows it cannot control the aftermath of its hypothetical attack on Iran, and the current global economic crisis adds to its concerns because Israel cannot be the one who messed the whole thing up for EVERYONE. 

Not too long ago Israel's main concern was for Iran to reach the "point of no return" which means for Iranians to learn the entire nuclear enrichment circle. That "point" has been reached for some time and the internal Iranian situation has forced the current regime to be more flexible and more open to IAEA inspections.

Israel knows it will do the current regime in Iran a big favor by attacking it because such military adventurism will certainly change the situation to the regime's favor internally.  I'd like to see Natanyahu's face trying to explain that to the Obamas, Sakozis, Merkels and Browns of the world.

Lastly, Israel has started murmurs that it can "live with a nuclear Iran" if others can too, albeit very reluctantly and quietly. Israel is desperate for markets and it knows with the center of gravity shifting to the East of the Middle East due the establishment of what is being known as the "Pipelinestan".  The bulk of the Pipelinestan is centered around the Caspian Sea, Turkey, Afghanestan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan while Iran is the only country that "connects" all of this emerging market block which, unlike the saturated S. Asian tigers, has abundant energy resources, scarce water and huge reservoir of youthful consumers as well as with the Persian Gulf. Israel NEEDS to be somehow connected to this emerging block, whose foundation already exist and it is called the Economic Cooperation Organization (ECO). The US, Russia, China, and Israel need this market block. In fact the whole world needs this energy producing and consumer market block in order to shake itself loose from the current persistent economic crisis.

For that simple reason Israel will not do anything foolish even if some people there want to. That's why even GW put Israel under adult supervision by stationing one of the most radar tracking and early warning systems there entirely manned by the US personnel.

I hope I have answered your questions to some extent.

HollyUSA

I really did not want to post on this blog as I found it offensive and pointless. But after having seen this quote from you, which is a beauty : “I don't care who practices what religion or none at all, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down anyone else's throat and they don't infringe on the civil rights of others” I thought you deserved a response. I will say it again, I never saw any Iranians protesting or chanting from rooftops over rights of minorities post IRI came to power. It is only now that you have been personally affected that you protest. Your belief of freedom and humanity is very selective to suit your own needs.  

Although you post yourself as a balanced and fair person you are trying to provoke minorities so that you can judge them. Which is still the same behaviour of IRI supporters in Iran that do not treat minorities as equals. And like other commentators here, I really wonder what you aim to achieve by this question. As even if war did occur NOONE on any side is “cheering” on their favourite to kill others.

As for Jews, which was your original question (which you changed to save face, as people rightly knew was to wind up one particular person on this site) this is just unfair to ask. They have been continuously verbally attacked by Iran. What do you expect them to say? Others may say you are intelligent but no amount of back-tracking that you have attempted will fool anybody.To those that think it was a fair and “valid” question: it is not. It is pure mischief.

delete

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I read all comments

HollyUSA is intelligent, well-spoken and courageous. BRAVO

Meaning...

judging by your comments you haven't bothered to read the rest of what I have written thus placing yourself in the category I refer to in the paragraph that I pointed out.

Ostaad

I see how Iran is not in a position to attack. But please explain how Israel is not. Thanks.

HollyUSA, you question is purely hypthetial and...

loaded. Therefore, it does not deserve serious comments. Neither Iran nor Israel are in any position to attack each other, period.

Meaning?

.

Sag

I'd like to draw your attention to the last paragraph of my comment here dated Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:51 AM PDT

HollyUSA, stop stirring trouble

I don't care who practices what religion or none at all, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down anyone else's throat and they don't infringe on the civil rights of others in the course of practicing their religion and ways of life… I hear and appreciate the fact that you place nationality before religion.

Like IRI you mean? They have imprisoned Bahais and Christian converts on death penalty trials. So I do not blame any of them for not siding with a country that has let them down and  denied them the civilian rights they deserve. I never saw any Iranians protesting or chanting from rooftops over rights of minorities when IRI came to power. Now that ordinary Muslims seem to realize that they have also been denied their rights to democracy we see chantingfrom rooftops. There seems to be an irony here.

fanatical support of Israel and her policies in the region and the world at large, and an increased call for military action against Iran mostly by the religious minority ...

I have not met any minorities who are calling for military action on Iran. The world is worried about the nuclear issue and continuos threats by Iran on Israel. So you are misinterpreting the situation. And in a round about way trying to accuse minorities of warmongering.

I tend to judge by the bulk of an entity's actions rather than one or two isolated cases.

Good. So next time you see IRI or Ahmadinejad deny the Holocaust write him a letter to tell him that he is denying Jews that died in a genocide of their dignity.

And by the way I am an atheist and do not care who is Muslim or Jewish. The fact that you posted this blog shows you as a stirrer and wind up merchant.

Bijan A M

This is pre-subject-edit response to Bijan's pre-subject-edit post:


Thank you for your comments Bijan AM. I trust you in that there may have been a timing factor in your blog and mine, but I assure you, this was not directed at you. If it was, I would have just asked you on your blog. One thing I'm never guilty of is being shy or indirect.
To clarify, I am not an anti-jew or anti any minority for that matter. I don't care who practices what religion or none at all, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down anyone else's throat and they don't infringe on the civil rights of others in the course of practicing their religion and ways of life. I am however ardently against any country that wants to push it's weight around, beit a Jewish state or a Moslem one, or Buddhist or Christian, black, brown, yellow, white or yashmiye khal khal pashmi.... I don't discriminate when it comes to bullies either. And I won't be threatened by labels.

You are correct in that my original un-edited question referred to Israel and specifically whether the Iranian Jews' allegiance is with Israel or the motherland. I hear and appreciate the fact that you place nationality before religion. But like you said yourself, that is you. I put my nationality before my ethnicity too. I'm sure that you will also agree that it is feasible that you and I have had very different experiences.

My expereience in the US (S Ca), and increasingly so as of late, has included (but is not limited to) witnessing worrying signs of a fanatical support of Israel and her policies in the region and the world at large, and an increased call for military action against Iran mostly by the religious minority ... So I have to ask myself if these people I'm around (and they represent a majority in the Iranian population here) are representative of some large scale change in attitudes...and thus the question that was posted. I wasn't trying to prove anything, I was merely posing the question to a larger audience across what I assume to be a much more varied background than that which I am exposed to where I live. The 'proof' if any, would be in the responses I presumed. (I personally wouldn't look for proof of anything here or any microcosm but you used the term so I'm following your terminology). A lot of what I got was attempts to 'turn the table' where there was no god damn table!

Having said all that, I'm sickened by the accusation du jour on Iranian.com that anyone who opposes an attack on Iran by Israel or any other country, is trying to absolve IRI from any responsibility. On the contrary I think most are just looking out for their motherland and its brave citizens who made us 'roosefid' post election. Opposing the IRI and opposing foreign aggression are not mutually exclusive as many like to paint them to be. If Iran is attacked because of a handful of rethoric then the guilty party will be the one who delivers the unmeasured response by attacking. But that's not the reason I posted the question, you brought it up so I am responding. The issue of Iran's right (as a sovreign nation and aside from the IRI) to nuclear installations and even weapons is yet another unrelated matter to this post that I will not get into. Finally, please do pardon me for not having the same confidence as you may in Israel or anyone else's ability and/or desire to spare any lives if/when they attack Iran. I tend to judge by the bulk of an entity's actions rather than one or two isolated cases.

Thank you again and I wish you a peaceful weekend.

Sophie's choice

Regardless of how inhuman your question is, I'm going to answer it.

If I'm on the side of Iran, I ask Israel not to attack. If I'm on the side of IRI, I fight back... which I'm not. I guess that's clear enough.

Another memory somewhat particular:

The day after the attack of Saddam and while a piece of Iranian territory was invaded by Iraqi army, I was out in the streets shouting for peace. This was the first time that I got beaten-up badly, not by chomaghdars as usual, but by ordinary people. It was also the last time. I went back to my usual routine to be beaten-up by chomaghdars. I learned how to shut my mouth... up until now!