DW Duke

Reply to Shahrex

I think the reason Maat is recapping what she says is that either you are intentionally twisting and distorting it or she is correct in that you cannot understand simple concepts. You keep accusing her of attacking her own religion because she says almost all religions had a violent origin. She also says that it may have been necessary for them to be violent to survive. She is not criticizing them for it but is saying we can't judge them by today's standards. That seems fairly simple so it really does look as if you can't grasp simple concepts or you are pretending to be ignorant and twisting what she says. My advice is grow up.

By the way, do you think it makes you more believeable if you type everything in caps and bold? It really doesn't.

Ayatollah Boroujerdi's view of Judaism and Bahai

//bameazadi-english.blogspot.com/2008/12/dissemination-of-peaceful-thoughts-of.html

MA'AT is still going MAD!

You do not deserve to be taken seriously, you have ridiculized yourself repeatedly and every intelligent reader here can see contradictions in your statements. First you pretend to be a JEW, you are simply an ashamed /masqued Islamist, trying to play human, intellectual and democrat!

You, as a JEW, condemn the history of Christianity and Judaism, but defend Islam, you pretend to know about uran better than all Ayatollahs and defend it fervently, you cried out your anger against me for 3 days ago and declared you found my statements/comments not worthy enough to be respondedby you, you even pretended that you had not been reading more than the first 2 lines of that, still you desparately tried to confront all i had said in 40 lines, you had red it! Ofcourse your counter replies were as usual a blend of fabrications, lies and copied texts, pasted together without relevance!

Still you continued to send your "last reply" to my comments here and you have been repeating it at least 4 times, you demonstrate a formidabale lack ofintelligence, knowledge and respect for those reading your texts, you try to translate my comments for them and pose your conclusions and judgements to them, as i they are minors or stupid!

Stupid , they are not, but YOU can not know that!

Besides, you are revealing your double character repeatedly, why using 2 different pseudonymes?

And at the end the clown inside yu, got angry enoughto resemble a mad dog crying nd barking his wild nature, while pretending to be a democrat, asking JJ to forbid Kaveh and me from this forum!

You really are Tragic!

Music for the Soul

While you folks are pounding it out, how about a little music for the soul.  :)

 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=GunqxyLibRs

Reply to KavehV

I hold you in slightly less contempt than I hold your lover and counterpart "Shah Rex" in this forum though I will forgive you for your ignorance of these issues and dismiss it. For your information, my ancestors lived in Babylon before your ancestors acquired a surname so don't presume for an instant to tell me I have no connection to Persia. Let me remind you of the words of someone whose intellect exceeds anything you could muster in a 1000 years. (At least you haven't so far.) His name was Cyrus the Great and the Hebrew prophet Isaiah said this about him:

1. So said the Lord to His anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I held, to flatten nations before him, and the loins of kings I will loosen, to open portals before him, and gates shall not be closed.
2. I will go before you, and I will straighten out crooked paths; I will break portals of copper and cut off bars of iron.
3. And I will give you treasures of darkness, and riches hidden in secret places, in order that you know that I am the Lord Who calls [you] by your name-the Holy One of Israel.
4. For the sake of My servant Jacob, and Israel My chosen one, and I called to you by your name; I surnamed you, yet you have not known Me.
5. I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me.

This is what Persia is about. Now what did Cyrus say? I will give you an opportunity to vindicate your pathetic identity by showing me some knowledge of history though I doubt I will receive a cognitive response. This is my question to you. What did Cyrus the Great say in the worlds first Declaration of Human Rights about discrimination on the basis of religion?

If you and "Shah Rex" want to take on Cyrus, then go ahead and continue making jack asses out of yourselves. We are enjoying the entertainment. By the way, do either of you ever plan to post in this forum under these names again? Anyone with an IQ greater than 70 would realize who and what you are. Frankly, if I were JJ I would ban both of you from the forum on the grounds that you are inciters of hate. But that is JJ's decision.

So long ... Ma'at

Your arguments in support of Islam and ignorance of Islam's role in Iran are nothing but presumptuous and provocative. Most people have resolved these issues long ago through Islamist republic rule. It is just ludicrous to have an outsider (self proclaimed orthodox Jew) bringing up this nonsense again.

Defending an incarcerated individual in IRI is a worthy cause. But, if this person carries the title of Ayatollah, then he is immediately a suspect. Boroujerdi is among the highest ranking suspects in a criminal enterprise called Islam. If he is receiving unjust treatment in IRI jails, he is one among hundreds, or thousands, and his individual rights should not trump any other political prisoner's. Given the nature of this case which may have the potential for him reaching social/political prominence as yet another Islamic demagogue, it is best to divert your resources in freeing other, nobler, "dissidents". Save his life, if you must, but DO NOT EVEN think about making him a potential dissident leader.

There is no reason for compromise with these criminals now. The opposition has the momentum and will not settle for anything less than TOTAL dismantling of this criminal enterprise; Islamic republic.

My last words to you are: go away, and help an innocent person somewhere else.

Reply to Shahrex

You can feign ignorance and lie all you want but by now everyone sees through you. Let me recap one more time for you since simple facts elude you. What I have said is this:

1. All major religions had a violent history as demonstrated in our earlier conversations and examples.

2. We cannot judge the early people of those religions by our modern standards because they lived in an entirely different world. They lived in a world where they had to be ruthless to survive. We have progressed substantially since then.

3. You want to look at what Islam has done to Iran for the last 1400 years. You should also look at what Christianity has done in the last 1400 years and you will see that it has been every bit as or even more violent. And once again let me give you a crash course in Jewish and Islamic history.
//www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_C...

4. All people have the absolute right to believe as they will despite the fact that we still have a few despicable cowards who believe they have found the answer and want to tell everyone else what they can and cannot believe.

5. I do not support Ahmadinejad in fact I am part of a group seeking his indictment.

6. This is the man, Ayatollah Boroujerdi, whom you say should be allowed to die simply because he is Muslim.

//bameazadi-english.blogspot.com/2008/12/ayat...

That tell me all I need to know about you and I would not shake your hand, I would not sit at the table with you any more than I would sit at the table with Ahmadinejad nor will I dignify your babble and lies with further response. You sir, disgust me and this conversation is over. You are a complete waste of my time. Am I angry? No but I can see you for who and what you really are and you are not someone with whom I will dialogue further.

Second point should read: 2.

Second point should read:

2. Every effort should be made to avoid another Islamic backlash in the future in order to deny credibility to Islamist bunch to future generations. When IRI falls, and during the transition period, will be the right moment to establish a, for the lack of a better name, Eradication-Islam-Enemy (EIE) movement that is dedicated to preserving Iranian national heritage and foremost in defending against Islamic atrocities throughout iranian history. This will not be a Reza Shah type imposition of Iranianness in an autocratic fashion. This will be a political and cultural advocacy movement that denounces Islam as a criminal enterprise and encourages Iranian (as opposed to Islamic). This will be one of the multiple parties bidding for government formation.

When a Clown gets angry, he is tragic!

MA'At is both angry and tragic.

As a Jew he defends Islam, and when we point the contradictions in his commets and points of view, he suggests that he does not bother reading my comments, he invites us all to read Quran, and when we recite some uranic verses, demonstrating the devil message in them, he suddenly, as a JEW, shows us that the same ugly staff exists in Judaism and christianity!

Who cares, there are surely the same bad staff in Budhaism, or anyother religion too, but it is not our problem, we are talking about Islam in Iran and what ISLAM has done to Iran during the last 1400 years.

In full desparationn he suddenly cries out his own Victory , as if it is my problem or still worse as if other readers here are stupid or incapable to make their own judgement.

Isn't it Contradictory? A Jew, detesting his own religion, praising Islam!!

It confirms what i suggested before about Jewish inteligentia. A perverted diaspora of individuals betraying their own people and corrupting democracy in the name of Liberalism.

MA'AT you resemble the Khakham inTehran, kissing the ugly lips of ugly Ahmadinejad, predicting the destruction of Israel, the only difference is that that Khakham, was paid for his self-prostitution. Or am i wrong? pehaps you to are paid!

David ET

David, now we are on the right track for discussion.
I'll try, despite being short on time.

You raised two points of interest:
1. Separation of religion and state
2. Muslim backlash to anti-Islam sentiments

1. The separation of Islam and state is and will be tricky. You can never trust mullahs to do this. They will always leave a path for themselves to comeback. There has to be a viable threat against mullah class in order to accomplish this. Furthermore, once they are sent back and isolated again in their seminaries, they will still be in a position to influence public opinion and society, similar to Pahlavi time, so we'll be back to square one. This is neither sufficient, nor acceptable.

Also, looking at all other secular Islamic societies, you will see that Islamists are an ever present and a menacing threat to all these secular governments. This has to be avoided in future Iran.

2. Every effort should be made for another Islamic backlash in the future in order to deny credibility to Islamist bunch to future generations. When IRI falls, and during the transition period, will be the right moment to establish a, for the lack of a better name, Eradication-Islam-Enemy (EIE) movementthat is dedicated to preserving Iranian national heritage and foremost in defending against Islamic atrocities throughout iranian history. This will ot be a Reza Shah type imposition of Iranianness in anautocratic fashion. This will be a political and cultural advocacy movement that denounces Islam as a criminal enterprise and encourages Iranian (as opposed to Islamic). This will be one of the multiple parties bidding for government formation.

A movenment along these lines is the only way to reign-in the Islamists in the future. You have to have a counter weight to political Islam that can establish legitimacy among a large enough segment of the population. This concept has certainly earned its place among many Iranians in the last 30 years and will be the only effective way of reigning-in the Mullahs-Islamists of the future and contribute to a stable and lasting democracy.

Last comment in response to Shahrex's editorial BS

For the record, your editorial comments of the meaning of the verses are grossly in error. Starting with the very first parenthetical comment. Incapacitate does not mean to behead. In means to render weak or disable. The rest of your editoral comments are equally as flawed.

Thanks for proving my point

Thanks for proving my point that nearly all religions have a violent history.

Leviticus 20:2 "You shall also say to the sons of Israel: 'Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Leviticus 20:27 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.'"

Leviticus 24:14 "Bring the one who has cursed outside the camp, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head; then let all the congregation stone him.

Deuteronomy 21:21 "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:1

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17

The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30

And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

Precisely my point

Shahrex wrote:
"So here Prophet Mohammed claims that all the people of other religions are basically useless and evil because they are made up of base matters. But the same people become Allah's favourite and become capable of earning Houris and young boys when they convert to Islam."

Have you ever read the Bible. Christianity teaches that everyone who does not accept Christianity will be thrown into a lake of fire. Look at the book of Revelation if you want the gory details. What is your point?

Do we really need to read Satanic Verses?

I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitiate (cut their head off) them because thy oppose Allah and His Apostle. Quran 5:51

Quran-33:27- "And He made you heirs of their (infidels) lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things." -means that all what we own - should belong to muslims, including our women and children (in accordance to koranic and islamic teachings.)

Quran-8:67—"It is not fitting for an Apostle that he should have prisoners of war until He thoroughly subdued the land…." (Allah insisting Prophet to kill all the prisoners, and should not keep any surrendered prisoners alive until He (Prophet) occupied entire Arabia."

Quranic Tafsir describes of of the many muslim massacre: Maulana A. Yousuf Ali stated: "The men of the Quraiza were slain; the women were sold as captives of war (booty); and their lands and properties were distributed or divided among the Muhajirs (Yousuf Ali's tafsir for Sura Ahzab)".

Instructions to Muslims about Unbelievers

Koran 9:29
Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

So here Prophet Mohammed is instructing a true Muslim to fight people of other religions until the unbelievers debase themselves and pay tax for their existence. So the greatness of Islam is revealed only when follwers of other religions are humiliated.

Koran 8:12
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

Here Mohammed is giving step by step instruction on how to torture and kill Kafirs if they don't follow Islam.

Koran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

In the above verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers to kill the idolators in any brutal way possible until the idolators submit themselves to Islam. Allah is indeed merciful !!

Koran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

Here Mohammed is trying to justify his brutal acts. He conveniently claims divine justification for the expression of his hatred by saying Allah himself revealed to him personally that people of other religions are evil and belong in Hell. Therefore, according to Mohammed any barbaric act against the unbelievers is completely justified.

Koran 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

This verse clearly states that a Muslim can only befreind a Muslim. Mohammed in order to ensure that his followers will not befriend and get influenced by people of other religions, revealed this verse. This verse illustrates that if a Muslim befriends a Non-Muslim than the wrath of Allah will be on him. Therefore in Islam, people of other religions should be treated with contempt,disrespect and cruelty.

Koran 47:4
When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

In the above verse, Mohammed is giving detailed instruction about how to maim and torture unbelievers in Jihad. And finally when the Muslims are satisfied enough after torturing and maiming the unbelievers, they should proceed to demand ransom for the captives. All for the sake for all-merciful Allah !!

Koran 5:33-34
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.

In this verse, Mohammed devises another recipe for torturing unbelievers. This particular recipe involves chopping off alternate limbs and expelling the Kafirs (people following other religions) out of the land.

Instructions to Muslims regarding Christians and Jews

Prophet Mohammed has reserved special position for certain sects of Unbelievers in his so called "Holy Book" Koran. Those unbelievers are none other than followers of Christianity and Judaism. I have selected few verses from Koran to display what Muslims are taught and instructed as far as treating Christians and Jews is concerned.

Koran 5:51
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

In this verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers never to befriend a Christian or a Jew. Because if they take a Christian or a Jew as a friend, they will commit a wrong deed and Allah's wrath will be on them.

Koran 5:57
Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pasttime...

Here "those who were given the Book before you" refers to Christians and Jews. Once again Mohammed is warning Muslims of all time never to befriend a Christian or a Jew.

Koran 5:64
The Jews say: 'God's hand is chained.' May their own hands be chained! May they be cursed for what they say!...

In the above verse Prophet Mohammed is showing his deep respect for the Jews.

Koran 9:29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued.

Here 'People of the Book' refers to Christians and Jews. The 'Religion Of Truth' refers to Islam. So in the above verse Prophet Mohammed is instructing Muslims to fight and torture Christians and Jews (who do not believe in Islamic version of God) until they pay tax to Muslims for their existence. Muslims are also strictly instructed to make the Christians and Jews feel 'subdued'. Allah is truly benign !!!

Koran 9:30
The Jews call 'Uzayr-a son of God', and the Christinas call 'Christ the Son Of God'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are decluded away from the Truth.

Here Prophet Mohammed is wishing that Allah's curse be on Jews and Christians. And what did the Christians and Jews do for such special favour from Allah ? All they did is that out of respect and love, they called their Prophets 'son of God'.

Islamic Hell and Unbelievers

Now we will enter the Islamic Hell brought into existence by Mohammed's hallucination and weird imagination.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

Here "People of The Book" refers to Christians and Jews. So according to Prophet Mohammed, Christians, Jews and pagans are the vilest of all creatures in the world. Islam in deed holds a high respect for people of other religions !!

Koran 22:19-22:23
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'

Here Mohammed has imagined vividly how people of other religions will be punished in Hell. By his sick and disgusting imagination, he is trying to make sure that people of other religions convert to Islam out of sheer terror of Hell. And if this terror doesn't work, then the Muslims are always instructed to convert unbelievers to Islam brutally by force in Jihad.

Koran 18:28-30
For the wrongdoers We have prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, dismal their resting-place.

Who are the "wrong-doers" here ? None other than the people who DO NOT follow Islam. So Prophet Mohammed here continues with his hallucination and gives the description of Islamic Hell in the form of a revelation.

Koran 40:67-40:73
Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.

Prophet Mohammed here explains what will happen to those people who choose NOT to follow his revelation "Quran"- a manual of plunder, rape and murder. So for people of other religions following scriptures other than Quran, Allah has pre-planned punishment. First they shall be dragged through scalding water with chains around their necks and then they will be burnt in the fire of Hell. Allah is truly merciful !!

Koran 43:74
..The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell. The punishment will never be lightened, and they shall be speechless with despair. We do not wrong, themselves.

Mohammed was not satisfied by just having burnt the unbelievers once in Hell. So here he is saying that the punishment is never-ending and people following other religions will be burnt in Hell forever.

Koran 55:41-52
..That is the Hell which the unbelievers deny. They shall wander between fire and water fiercely seething. Which of your Lord's blessing would you deny ?

Koran 76:1-5
For the unbelievers We have prepared chains and fetters and a blazing Fire...

Koran 73:12
We have in store for the unbelievers heavy fetters and a blazing fire, choking food and harrowing torment: on the day when the earth shall quiver with all its mountains, and the mountains crumble into heaps of shifting sand.

Once again, in the above verses, Mohammed is emphasizing that heavy fetters, choking food and hell fire are in store for the unbelievers while the Muslims enjoy the beautiful virgins and young boys in Islamic Paradise.

Koran 77:20-77:50
Woe on that day to the disbelievers! Begone to the Hell which you deny! Depart into the shadow that will rise high in three columns, giving neither shade nor shelter from the flames, and throwing up sparks as huge as towers, as bright as yellow camels...Eat and enjoy yourselves awhile. You are wicked men..."

In the above verse, Prophet Mohammed is making sure that the people of other religions do not get any shade or shelter when they are burnt up in the Islamic Hell. Allah is also revealing to him that all people other than Muslims are basically wicked in nature.

Koran 8:73
The unbelievers give aid and comfort to each other. If you fail to do likewise, there will be disorder in the land and great corruption.

The Great Mohammed divided the Arabian society in two tight compartments: Momins and Kafirs. The word momin means believer in Mohammed and Allah. In contrast a kafir is a non-believer. The momins did not have to be better men than the Kafirs in terms of character or consciousness. Momins had only to recite the Kalima (incantation)- "there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet." By doing that the 'momins' become qualified to kill as many kafirs as they could or pleased, looting and burning their belongings and enslaving their women and children in the process. In the above verse, Prophet Mohammed once again is telling his followers to help each other in banning up against unbelievers (people of other religions)

Koran 21:96-21:101
..The unbelievers shall stare in amazement, crying: 'Woe to us! Of this we have been heedless. We have done wrong.' You and your idols shall be the fuel of Hell; therein you sall all go down.

This verse is another instance which displays the deep respect Islam shows towards other religions. Here Prophet Mohammed is stating that people who choose to represent God by idols will be burnt in hell along with their idols. Islam is truly compassionate towards other religions !!

Koran 33:7-12
...But for the unbelievers He has prepared a woeful punishment...

Here, we find the same old blabbering by Mohammed once again regarding how unbelievers will be punished.

Koran 44:40-49
..The fruit of the Zaqqum tree shall be the unbelievers's fruit. Like dregs of oil, like scalding water, it shall simmer in his belly. A voice will cry: 'Seize him and drag him into the depths of Hell. Then pour out scalding water over his head, saying: "Taste this, illustrious and honourable man! This is the punishment which you have doubted."

Koran 52:1-52:15
..On that day they shall be sternly thrown into the fire of Hell, and a voice will say to them: 'This is the Fire which you denied...Burn in its flames. It is the same whether or not you show forbearance. You shall be rewarded according to your deeds.'

Koran 31-37
And burn ye him in the blazing fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits. This was he that would not believe in allah Most high amd would not encourage the feeding of the indignant. So no friend hath he here this day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds.

Koran 56:52-56
Ye shall surely taste of the tree Zaqqum. Then will ye fill your insides therwith, and drink boiling water on top of it. Indeed ye shall drink like diseased camels raging with thirst. Such will be their entertainment on the day of Requital!

Koran 69:30-37
We shall say: 'Lay hold of him and bind him. Burn him in the fie of Hell, then fasten him with a chain seventy cubits long. For he did not believe Allah the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Today he shall be friendless here; filth shall be his food, the filth which sinners eat...

The above five verses contain detail description of various kinds of punishments people of other religions will undergo in Islamic Hell. They display the true respect Prophet Mohammed had for people who were not following Islam. And through these verses, Koran (the manual for plunder, rape and murder)which is treated as a timeless scripture by Muslims, teaches how lowly people of other religions should be treated by Muslims regardless of time or space.

Koran 2:39
Those who reject faith shall be the companions of the Fire.

Koran 2:89-90
The curse of Allah is on the unbelievers... humiliating is the punishment.

Koran 13:13
..He hurls his thunderbolts at whom he pleases Yet the unbelievers wrangle about Allah..

Koran 58:5
Those who resist Allah and his messenger will be humbled to dust.

Koran 70:15-16
The fire of Hell will pluck out his being right to the skull..

Koran 5:10
As for those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the heirs of Hell.

The summary of the above six verses is that a person follwing any religion other than Islam, is automatically assigned to Hell. His good thoughts, good actions or peity are of no value until and unless he follows Islam. So if in this life, a person does not follow Islam and does not believe in Islamic scripture, Allah will store Hell-Fire, Hot water, Molten brass, thunderbolts and other humiliating punishments in the life hereafter for him.

Koran 70:39
We have created the unbelievers out of base matters.

So here Prophet Mohammed claims that all the people of other religions are basically useless and evil because they are made up of base matters. But the same people become Allah's favourite and become capable of earning Houris and young boys when they convert to Islam.

Reply to KavehV

Have you ever read the Koran? Do you really know what it says? Are you aware that the Koran forbids the killing of innocent civilians? Are you aware that the Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews? Are you aware that the second sura of the Koran says that there will come a time when evil men will take control of Islam but they will not be true Muslims at all. They will be imposters who carry out acts of mishcief against the people.

How about the Tanakh the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity? Have you ever seen this:

"2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (1 Sam. 15:2-3).

Saul's failure to obey this command cost him his kingship.

Read Chapter 2 of the Hindu writing Bhagavad Gita where Lord Krshna tells Arjuna not to grieve for someone he kills regardless of the reason for the war because to kill someone is to honor him.

Do you have any idea how many millions of people have been killed in the name of Christianity. Some historians believe that Europeans killed as many as a hundred million native Americans from the 1400's to the 1800's. This was genocidal war.

Nearly all religions have violence in their roots. We cannot judge people who lived thousands of years ago by the same standard of human behavior we expect from them today. In most nations of the world we have become much more civilized. Often for a population ruthlessness was required for survival. Therefore, when we look back at the ancient writings of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhaism, or any other religion we have to bear in mind that they lived in a very different world from the one in which we live today and we cannot judge them by the standards of behavior expected of human beings today.

It isn't religion that is the cause of human rights violations. The atheists of communism killed between 60 and 80 million people in the Soviet Union from 1917 to 1980 and likely more were killed in China since their revolution.

People kill because of hate not because of religion. The kind of hatred that says a particular religion should be abolished is the kind of hatred that leads to such events as the holocaust. That is the reason civilized nations have protections against lunatics with such protections as this one found in the First Amendment of the US Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Unfortunately, the world has always been plagued by half wits who think they have it all figureds out and who want to tell others what they can and cannot believe. I suppose that is a plague with which we will always have to live.

KavehV

I suggested: "education, love, tolerance and human rights "

You want: " teaching the true genocidal nature of Islam in schools. It means removing any sign of Islam in public life. "

Boroujerdi wants: Separation of religion and state

and majority of Iranians are Muslims and they would react to any  extreme attempt against their religion and it would only create a backlash. Matters such as religious beliefs are deeply rooted and must be addressed wisely.  

Full removal of religion from government at all levels is first step. Education is next step ...

You are not a cleric if you

You are not a cleric if you do not talk about women's period and what it takes till she is clean,with what foot one is supposed to enter the rest room,how much water is needed to clean oneselve after going to bathroom,how to clean a object when it came in contact with human or animal feces.how water is supposed to be poured on body when one is ready to pray,and the best Mullah is the one who can make peope cry.As matter of fact at the end of his sermon a cleric supposed to make people cry and if he does not, he is not a good Mullah.

Re: WOW Mr. ET

Look David, this is becoming a waste of time. Too many wild speculations again:

Eradicating muslims ?
Concentration camps ?
Burning people ?
Who's next ?
Extremist Pahlavi's ?!!

First, eradicating Islam in not the same as eradicating Muslims! The Akhoond Borojerdi is another despicable Islamist concerned about the survival of his Islam than himself. His cause is Islam and not human rights, otherwise he would not become an Ayatollah. As an individual, he has certain rights, but no more than the other hundreds, or thousands of other prisoners of conscious in IRI. In fact, everyone else in IRI prisons are nobler than this wretched Islamist whose cause is still Islam.

Hate belongs to Islam and not me! If that Arabian prophet was to write his nonsensical hate manifesto (Quran) today, aside from not finding a publisher, he'd be sued by just about everyone in the world and banned from many societies. Tolerance toward Islam is futile, Iranians, of all the people, should have learned this by now.

Eradicating Islam means many things, but not murder. It means teaching the true genocidal nature of Islam in schools. It means removing any sign of Islam in public life. It means recognizing the nefarious role of this crap into many people's lives, and history and many, many, many other things.

Kaveh, So let me get this right

You start "eradicating Islam" by getting rid of Boroujerdi ? someone who ALSO opposes Islamic Extremism and is a victim of it?!!

Or are you thinking of putting all the muslims in concentration camps and burn them?

Who is to be eradicated by whom next? 

Do you honestly think you can eradicate Islamic extremists with extremisms of one kind or another?!!

Kaveh Jaan, the one who should learn from the lessons of extremisms the two regimes of Royals and Religious and the revolution that seperates the two.... may be yourself :-)

Human Rights is for all "Humans" not only for the ones we like!

Hate does not bring peace! But education, love, tolerance and human rights do

I keep coming back to what Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously
committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest
of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the
heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own
heart?"

WOW Mr. ET

If reading my comments and others is reminding you of Niemoeller's poem, then you have much bigger problems than I originally thought. Now, I can say many things about this lapse of judgment and in many colorful ways, I wont, not too much anyhow.

Bottom line is that way too many of you people have great lapses in judgment and lack of historical facts and perspective. Why do you always jump 20 steps ahead of someone in your mind and accuse someone based on your limited imagination ?

Worse yet, so many of you are so eager to forget all the ills and your catastrophic past so quickly. Here's a hint: take the word "Nazi" out of your favorite poem and replace it with "Islamists" and think back to 1979 and then forward. Knock! Knock! Get the picture!!!?

Wow

A hidden activist from Iran to Palestine to Iraq and US...and we must also add: a judge, jury and a mind reader .who knows of other people's "hurt feelings"! ...or without knowing much about someone can judge that they are "bandwagon of spotlight hounding "activists" who want
to gain fame, money, and praise by telling everyone who will listen
about the great work they have done" who already has helped and cared about Boroujerdi with great comments here.  I am sure Boroujerdi is very thankful for such shining activism here.

On another note:

Reading the comments of anti-Islamists (as opposed to Islamists) here, reminds me of a poem attributed to
Pastor Martin Niemoller about the inactivity of German intellectulas following the Nazi rise to power:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a
communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I
was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Reply to Shahrex and Niki

Shahrex,
So you hate Jews as much as you hate Muslims. If we give you enough time I am sure you will tell us how much you hate Christians as well. I didn't read your post by the way since after two sentences it was clear your mouth was moving but you weren't making a sound. :)

Miki:
You sound like another jealous wannabe who is angry because she can't get a forum for her cause. If it surprises you that someone would be contacted by individuals in a foreign nation to deal with issues of human rights, you must live in a small world indeed. :)

To David

First, sorry if I hurt your feelings by expressing my opinion and posing a couple of questions to your friend.

And no, I won't enlighten you about my work, since my activism on behalf of victims in Iran, US, palestine, Iraq, and elsewhere cannot be summarized in the space of the comment.

But, sure, maybe if one day I want to join the bandwagon of spotlight hounding "activists" who want to gain fame, money, and praise by telling everyone who will listen about the great work they have done, I will be happy to share that information.

Good luck and adios!

MA*AT finds His own drug different from Ialamic Drug!

First of all, i believe you are both a jew and an ortodox, that does not make your point of view worthier than an Islamist, a palestinian terrorist or an Ayatollah.

I have mentioned it repeatedly that the cross line for a Persian is not an obligation to choose between an Arab or a Jew, for me, these 2 are cousins and have nothing in common with our national interests att all.

We know very well the merits of jewish intellectuals, a blend of masochism, constant trahison and betrayal, manipulation and sinful alliances. Apart the fact that i have always defended Israels right of existance i have not much respect for your culture or religion at all, i have defended Israel and jews because of my hatred towards facism, and in my eyes and in the light of historical evidences and experiences Islam is Facism, specially to Iran and Iranians.

Let us not forget Judas (no conclusion, i am not a Christian!), let us not forget many JEWS who cooperated with SS, Geahtapoo, KKK,Stalin, KGB, Ayatollah Khomeini, Let us not forget that your Jewish brothers are at this very moment cooperating with IRI, economically and even militarily.

Let us Not forget how liberal(?!) jews are compromising the free world, how your people in Financial epicenters of all 5 continents are creating their beloved harmagedon and apocalypso, let us not forget how people ofyour faith betrayed the free world, spying for Soviet Union, against USA, let us not forget how Jewish Intelligentia betrayed American war against Communism in far east, organizing and orchestrating mass mobilization of hippies and students at the midst of a war , let us not forget that Moosad knew about the IRI's nuclear plans during the last 24 years but let it go on, let us not forget that Moosad and Israeli agents implanted faulty information pushing Bush Administration to war against Saddam, and then the same  sources betrayed Bush, by leaking out opposite information to media, mobilizinthe public opinion against the very same Army which is supposed to defend Israel when needed.

Let us not forget Openheimer, Clein, Noam Chamsky, all, modern Judas, against exactly those who defended jews, and for exactly the same powers which threatened Israel an Jews.

That is a psychologic paradox, engraved in the spirit and brain of jewish intelectuals, it is just part of your culture and nature, you want to be the chosen people, and you do whatever to suit that custom, there are even jews spying for IRI, you know it better.

But why should a jew like you bother about Ayatollah Boroojerdi? Have you ever actively condemned IRI's violation of human rights in general, and women and minority rights in particular?

So as you see, your being jew and defending Ayatollahs, doese not make your gesture more trustworthy. I did not pretend any thing, i openly decale my hatred towards ISlam and Islamism, i have cried it ou so often and so clearly here, so you do not need to guess it out!

There are times hatred is more worthy than love, a general love without structure, memory, principes and aim is worthless, it is just a delirium. A conscious hatred based on hstorical memory and actual experiences is worth all respect, it stands for JUSTICE, and a gerater love!

So, your point of view in the light of your religious beliefs does not count much, exactly the same  applies to all other dehumanized believers of Utopian heavenly /celestial laws and rules, after all we true humanists, are terrestrial and earthly!

Niki

Since you seemed to be so concerned about Boroujerdi'swell being, will you please enlighten us what have you done to help him or any of those who are victims of the Islamic regime in Iran?

If nothing? ...will you? and if not...never mind

Mr. Boroujerdi's supporters contacted you directly?

Wow, Mr. Duke, you must be a very prominent person for Bourejerdi's supporters to have asked for your direct, personal help. I'm very curious about how they knew you or how you would verify who they are and if they really speak on behalf of him, but I understand that there may be security issues fo all involved if that information were divulged

For the sake of bourejerdi and others, I hope his supporters  know what they are doing!

Reply To Niki

Just so you know, it was Ayatollah Boroujerdi's supporters in Iran who requested that I bring this matter to the attention of the Western World and to solicit the involvement of the United Nations.  They realize that we are all one family in this world.  When one of us suffers we all suffer and international awareness is the best hope for Ayatollah Boroujerdi at this time. 

Remember it was the refusal of others in the world to speak out against the injustice that resulted in the death of six million Jews and another 5 million mentally and physically handicapped during the Holocaust.  The same has been true in Darfur and many other places in the world.

Thanks DW Duke, but please find yourself another pet cause

Dear DW Duke- Like the commenter who thanks you as an Iranian for your work, I too would like to put in my two cents as an Iranian. While I also thank you for your interest, I strongly urge you to please go and find yourself another pet cause. i am sure there are plenty of injustices in your town or in california that could use your talents and time.

There are many Iranians who are working on behalf of Mr. Bourejerdi and the injustice he has suffered, non-iranians getting involved in matters from thousands of miles away usually just mess things up (whether they intend to or not)

And for the record, since many seem to be confused about the issue, this borujerdi bears no relation to the grand ayatollah bourujerdi.

Dear DW Duke

To many of us Ayatollahs are the cause of disaster in our country. There are no good or bad ones..To many of us specially those in western part, Iranian Kurdistan, they are nothing but thieves and murderers who forces their ideology on others while prohibit us from practicing our own customs.

Dear D.W.

Just wanted to publicly let you know that as an Iranian how much appreciate having a selfless American friends like you.

Our world would have been a much more beautiful place having caring human beings like you.

It has been a pleasure and honor getting to know and work with with you for higher causes

People who care come from all cultures, religions, titles, races and countries....

Thank you for caring!