Bavafa

VPK: The “allies” weren’t the “allies”….

Till they decided they need to stand against an evil force and not join a powerful force, Nazi Germany. 

Consider this, had Britain concluded that Nazi Germany is the powerful force and therefore they should join that powerful friend in order to be golden!!!!

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Mehrdad

Since you replied I will also reply.

if the world had followed your suggestions, we all would have been living under the Nazi rule.

How did you came up with this analogy is beyond me. The "allies" did make powerful friends. The British; Americans; Russians and so on. It validates my point.

Dear R-Bites: Thanks for the well put and relevant comment...

I believe you have got my intention of this blog better than anyone and I only fault myself for not stating it clearly.  My intention has been far from making IRI a victim but showing the hypocrisy of the international affairs.
I couldn’t agree more with your sentiments and the comment that IRI has actively been seeking confrontation with the West and I believe picking Israel as talking point, partly because,  Israel with its policy towards Palestinians give a good ammunition to them.  However, I just need to point out that some of the examples you brought, one could argue that they have been retaliatory type actions as oppose to initiating.

VPK jaan: Not sure if it is of any value to discuss some of the points you brought up since we have already discussed them many times without going anywhere.  Just out of courtesy, I would just point out when you write “Be powerful; make powerful friends and you are golden” and put it in the context of WWII and the Jewish people, if the world had followed your suggestions, we all would have been living under the Nazi rule. Well, excluding those who would have been sent to the concentration camps.
Also, have you thought that if all this conversation about Israel or what ever drives you up the wall, perhaps try and stay away for a bit.  Why do you feel we have to conform to your thinking so you won’t be driven up to the wall

Mr. Abarmard: Indeed we are in great disagreement.  Perhaps if we could only ask the so many who are spending their years behind bars simply for seeking their basic rights if they would have a dandy life if it was not for the West sanction?  The suffering of Iranian people at the hands of IRI pales to what effect the sanction has had on their lives.

SK:  I seldom find myself in agreement with Fesenjoon, but this is one of those occasions and he is correct about the obligations of Iran/IRI under NTP treaty.  Though those obligation is ought to come with some benefit which Iran has not been receiving nor there is any sign that it will ever receive.  This has been one of the greatest failure of NTP where the international community has been rewarding the violators/non-signatory (Pakistan, India and Israel) yet has been punishing the signatory members.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

 People should really ask

 People should really ask their motivation when writing such articles.. The hatred for the jews always trumps even the interest of own country and even other nationalities and religions.

That's why these kind of arguments never get real traction with those who are unbiased and in charge of making real foreign policy decision for the interest of their own country (read USA). USA interest in the region has nothing to do with Israel.

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

The %99 Message For AIPAC's Gathering in March

"Occupy AIPAC!"

This is what they say:

Dear friends,

"It’s true. This year, both Netanyahu and Peres will be present at the annual AIPAC Policy Conference, along with a high number of our Congressional representatives. With the objective of pushing for war on Iran and justifying the ongoing, egregious violations of Palestinian rights, AIPAC will convene in Washington DC"

Register now to join the hundreds of people who will be coming between March 2 and 6 to protest against AIPAC and take part in the Occupy AIPAC counter-summit.

//www.occupyaipac.org/

I'm just saying,

Iraj

USA & Israel hatred

All this hate towards USA and Israel is not doing us any good. They have not been nearly as bad to Iran as say Russia. Before IRI got to power Israel had no problems with Iran. Nor have they physically attacked Iran yet.

People always bring up "Palestine" blah. How about Turk genocide of Armenia. Why don't I see any outrage. Or Tibet or many other places. The one difference is "Jew". Face it people hatred of Jews is almost instinctive to some people.

I bet many don't admit it to themselves and hide behind human rights and whatever. But the real intentions ooze out and show no matter what. Israel hits Saddam; Palestinians help him yet some support Palestinians.

Picking up on what Reality-Bites said....

My friend, you have to ask yourself this question, when the IR first came to power and indeed for the first few years of its rule, was there any threat by Israel to attack Iran?

Quite the contrary, it was Israel which destroyed Saddam's Osirak nuclear facility in 1981 (something the IRI had tried in 1980 and failed to do). If Israel had not done that, Iran may very well have faced a Saddam armed with nuclear weapons sometime in the 1980s. But some folks have anti-Israeli, anti-U.S. attitudes programmed in their brains no matter what the facts are.

Mehrdad jaan,

Your comment about the Western hypocrisy and their disregarding of Israel's misdeeds is well made and I agree with it. The problem is, in the process you end up making the IR look like the victim, which I'm sure was not your intention.

My friend, you have to ask yourself this question, when the IR first came to power and indeed for the first few years of its rule, was there any threat by Israel to attack Iran? The answer of course is no. So what has happened since then to have created this atmosphere of hostilities between the two countries?

I would suggest that we are where are, in terms of the hostilities between the West/Israel and Iran, because the Islamic Republic has been actively seeking this confrontation for over 30 years. 

For example, although technically accurate to say Iran has not invaded any nation (at least in recent years), in reality from the very beginning of its existence the IR has been engaged in not only a propaganda war (marg bar Israel, "Israel must be wiped off the map" etc), but also in actual conflict through its proxies of Hamas and Hezbollah against the Jewish state.

Only last week in Tehran Khamenie told the Hamas leader not to make peace with Israel. Khamenei also very openly declared that the IR had "interfered" (his word), in the 2007 conflict between Hezbollah and Israel, against the Israelis. See here:

//www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/03/khamenei-iran-help-confront-israel?intcmp=239 

And that's leaving aside what happened previously such as the suicide bombing of the 250 US marines and the hostage taking of the Western hostages in Lebanon in the 1980s, as well as the bombing of the Jewish centre in Buenos Aires in the 1994, which the IR denies responsibility for.

As the old saying goes, if you play with fire, don't complain if you get burned. 

US military moves

First of all we need to know why did US go into Iraq to begin with? I am not sure so will speculate. The Saddam regime was becoming too powerful and too much a pan Arab power. US wanted to break that and did.

US moved out of Iraq because its job is done. They need the troops in Afghanistan and because the population wants it. Did they leave Iraq to IRI? I doubt it. Why: because IRI is next to go so any gain by them is purely temporary. 

Regarding American support for IRI. America did initially support IRI. But that has not been the case recently. Mr Amirparvis American policies do change. America once supported the Shah then gave it up. Same may be happening with IRI.

Mehrdad

Iran and nuclear

I don't know why this nuclear BS has to come up all the time. The other blog by Mr. Sobhani is much more to the point. Anyway here are my responses.

• Iran does have a right to nuclear power but in my opinion it is a bad idea. It is a bad technology under the best of situations. With IRI a really bad one.
• Why does Israel have to be brought into all these discussions? It drives me up the wall to have it mixed with all our debates. I don't give a *** about Israel.
• Right or not it is being used to set up public opinion against IRI. Mullahs are obviously too intransigent to budge. Therefore they are going to break.

F2 How can you disingenuously say i am blaming America??????????

I am giving you proof, not theories and areas the USA acted & how to verify the information.  Giving you information, if you did not have it before it is intended to help you reaiize that some of your conclusions are deeply flawed. 

Here's something for you in particular to consider, when people are manipulated the real intention of those doing the manipulating is to deeply hurt their victim and intentionally try to suppress their growth and development.  On this planet the motive is usually for power or money.  You have lived a life of being hurt and manipulated which truly breaks my heart, you did not deserve this.  You need to ask yourself this before you ever listen to anyone.  Does this person seek to inflict harm on me and stunt my development?  This is always an honest question to ask on this planet, because sadly people are corruptible in the pursuit of power or money.  It is close to impossible to know the complexity of peoples motives, but in their actions, not their words they reveal all.  So watch actions not words.  Was the late shah suppressing development for Iran or was he doing everything he could in order to bring peace, progress, human rights and development for Iran? Think of his actions and what he was really up against (the USA/UK/France).  You would be wise to ask this question I showed you regarding me also, though to be honest you will not have anyway of knowing the answer as you can not see my actions.

Unlike the late shah who acted as a life guard for the people of iran and tried to save them from drowning and sadly himself was ultimately drowned/killed I am not aiming to save you, I learned from the shahs lesson that the very first person that tries to save a drowing person/country is likely to be a victim.  I can only communicate with free minds that can reflect.  I can never be in bed with the anti-secular mullahs, going after the USA/UK/France/Russia is rooted in the realzation that based on their interests and their actions they could not give a damn about Iranian Freedom or Democracy.  By criticizing the USA for supporting mullahs and keeping them, how does this help the mullahs?  If enough Iranians did it it would force the USA to realize that it can not count on being able to manipulate Iranians, by speaking of democracy ad freedom and supporting extremists.  If the mass of Iranians were enlightened it would not help mullahs, but start to undermine a pillar of their support.

You don't see why the USA left Iraq?  This helps the IRI regime get closer to controlling Maliki and push out the sunni's and strengthens the shia extremists in Iraq in pursuit of power from religion.  You don't see why the USA is talking with the extremists in Afghanistan/taliban wishing to bring them in to government?  You don't see why the USA supported extremists in Libya like Belhaj to replace Ghaddafi (don't anyone kid themselves, the rebels are anti-secular extremists and they were given libya after Nato destroed the libyan army).  The actual peple doing the killing the jailings and the stonings are the people the USA has brought to power after wiping out secular forces, can you not see the trend?  The reason that military people are never ever expected to make political decisions and discouraged from being involved in politics and are their to just take orders for a country is because Fesenjoon2 they lack so much in terms of basis for thinking they are the easiest to manipulate, why? because their expertize is not law, economics, accounting or science and these are all essential in establishing independence of thought.

At some point we are all going to have to stop and face the source not the mechanism.

Nice attempt!

It is interesting how Amirparviz claims to be for secular monarchy. But in all his posts actually defends IRI and bashes the West. 

• Blaming all problems in Iran on America.
• Associating mullahs with Iranian people as if they are one.
• Blaming power grab by the mollahs on America.

Oh, it is all the big bad America if only they did not do these things! Folks India and China also got hit by colonialism why is Iran suffering this way? Because of Islamism; the Mollahs and the idiots who gave us the revolution.

I my opinion anyone who tries to make excuses for IRI and Mollahs is suspect. Anyone who tells us we are helpless or hopeless is suspect. From left to right I don't care what "side" you are on but the ideas that matter.

Amir 2/2

Yes, I proudly glorify America. She has many many accomplishments which make me honored to call this palce my home and country. (I also support Britain. It's a great country with vast accomplishments too.)

I support our (US) troops, and I hope it (US) remains strong in the 21st century.

You can call me ignorant for glorifying the US, if you like. But that's OK. You wont be the first to do so. 

Amir 1/2

Why do you have to make things personal?

Why is it that as soon as people here run into a wall in debates, they immediately change the subject from what their opponent says, to who their opponent is? Why do you need my age??

Im not gonna tell you my age, but I'll give you hints:

I took part in the revolution, even though I was a young kid who didnt know his head from his butt.

I was an armed member of the Baseej during the Iran-Iraq war (like JJ was), and it was there when I suffered a right leg paralysis during Iraqi bombings in 1986, which never healed. 

After the war, I worked for a short while in various govt jobs including interpreter in various places such as The Ministry of Agriculture, and for Ahmad Khomeini and Bosnian guests of IRI. During Rafsanjani's presidency, I attended U of Tehran. Remember the first wave of tensions against Dr. Soroush at UT? Remember Heshmatollah Tabarzadi's Payam Daneshjoo newspaper? I was actually there as a student during those events. Finally, I worked for IRIB as news writer for 4 years. This was all before Khatami's time. Today, I'm a university faculty member.

Is that enough info for you? I'm sure that you now agree that my ground level experiences from Iran is far more in depth than your book knowledge. And if you wish, we can contiue this discussion in farsi.

Now, back to the matter at hand: If you think youre going to accomplish anything by hating/blaming America for Iran's misery, then by all means knock yourself out. Just remember this: youre automatically putting yourself in bed with the mullahs, like it or not. Yes, the US may have contributed to the Shah's downfall by fertilizing the field for Khomeinist groups to rise up, but your "US supports IRI" theory doesnt apply to what's currently happening today. But then again, we're all free to have our theories. You wanna hate America? Go ahead, it's a free country. But I'd rather focus my attention on the actual people who are doing the killing and jailing and stonings.  

Fessenjoon2 Did you pick up legal obligation from my long post

Were you aware of the information I provided or did you not have it? Could you see how with out this key information, how one that knew about this might judge the priorities of your values as being unwise, leading to  a disenfrachised & disloyal mentality glorifying the USA out of total ignorance, than having an understanding?????????

There are some people out there that like to portray most of the mullahs in iran as being anti-secular extremists, this is not the case, those in power and those seeking power do fall into this category, but the majority of the mullahs have long pushed away from islam in government.  Only the USA wishes for them to stay and puts power in the hands of the extremists.

Iranians are more Innocent than you can possibly imagine, Americans, UK/France are totally guilty of neocolonialism, this is easy to prove.

Soosan

What you mean is:

As signers of the N.P.T., Iran has more of a legal obligation to nuclear power than Israel. 

It's needless to say that

As signers of the N.T.P., Iran has more of a legal right to nuclear power than Israel. 

Policy of terror, torture, violence, disrespect to human lives

In 1979, Stinky Islamic criminals took American hostages for 444 days.

In 1983, terrorist attack to U.S army bases in Lebanon leading to massacre of 256 U.S marin corps

In 1987, frequent mine installment in straight of Hurmoz targeting to damage american ships. In one attack to the ship in port of Kuwait, Gasber Wanberger the U.S defense minister lost his job as a result.

In 1988 death decree on british born novelist Salman Roshdie

In 1994 bomb explosion in Jewish cultural center in Argentina leading to killing 88 innocent individuals. Falahian's name went on the black list to be arrested once he is out of Iran

In recent years the monkey who calls himself Iran president keep made a frequent verbal threat of wiping off state of Israel from the map. His speech had been documented by international journalism and magazine. No one can deny that fact. Stinky ruling Mullahs are trying hard to reach nuke power to establish the mission of wiping off the Israel from the map.  Stinky mullahs' ambition for taking over the middle east and Islamization of whole world had been their agenda since day one they took unlawfully power in Iran. The dream of taking over Spain and call it Andules once again. The dream of taking over Iraq and going to Al Ghodes through Karbala has always been mullahs ambition since day one.

Mullahs' time is getting over. They are losing their supports even among uneducated Iranians who are waiting for Mehdi appearance.  Mullahs are walking dead men. It is the matter of time.

Soon happiness will return to our country. We will live in peace and harmony with all of our neighbore including state of Israel as we were living during shah's days. Soon we will gain our respect back as we were respected during shah days. Soon all mullahs has to stand International court for their crimes against Iranians for last 32 years.

                   OUR GOAL : RESTORING MONARCHY

Abamard you read my post below too.

The USA wants mullahs! Leave Iran alone you say, what and allow Iran to develop and shun mullahs, this is why its tough for them to bomb mullahs which they really want to keep at all costs!!!!!!!!! This is like group tuition my rates are higher for that

Mr. Bavafa

"In the context of Iranian suffering, my bet is that Iranians have been suffering far more at the hand of IRI and as a result of IRI rule than the sanction that has been imposed on them."

I disagree. Iran under this similar system with better economy would yield a better result all together.

Sanctions on Iran is NOT based on Iranian behavior but Iranian political path, in other words, sanctions would exist even if Shah was ruling Iran and Iran wasn't taking orders.

The result today is the child of foreign behavior towards Iranian will to be independent and free. Iranians, similar to recent history have been the victim of the game of dominance.

If the West left Iran alone, this regime would have not survived this long.

Mehrdad , read my long post below this one for details

we, the Iranian people, have the primary responsibility for it. 

That statement is not all of the truth at all, you missed some of the most important facts and made a conclusion, this is why Iranians are in the mess they are in, largely ignorance/missing/not aware of all the details, and not realizing how a few details completely changes the story.  Read the entire post below and be informed and think, I feel like today I am the nanny for all iranians who are clue less as to what is going on and have based their minds on the works of the same main stream media that helped install Khomeini in Iran and is running the world based on pure militarism and lawlessness. Its like people actually paid attentio to the media who's purpose it is to make everyone dumb. I'm gonna start chargin tuiton!!!!!!!!!

I Blame America they say, such smart asses! Iran is being raped by the USA & its mullah clowns and the people can be as responsible as they want, the outcome can not be different, unless people act wisely and not be disenfrachised sell outs, glorifying the USA out of total ignorance.

Fesenjoon2. my suggestion, get informed, ignorance is harming us

The issue is not just the past, but the present too.  The USA brought anti secular extremists and the USA is keeping extremists, this has caused unimaginable harm to Iranians and is what we have to resolve if we are to actually enjoy freedom and secular democracy in Iran instead of being Africanized.  That is so what. 

The scenario is like this when you get taken to jail and beaten, some people say justice is getting the guy who beat you, others say getting the guy who paid the guy to beat you and others still say getting the guys who paid them to beat you and who's job it is not just to beat you but it is to break your entire communities spirit, with the aim of making it impossible for you to live in Iran with out bribing, lying and without access to decent education or work.  In 1979, the USA increased its embassy staff many fold in order to facilitate a coup d'etat in favor of anti-woman/anti-secular extremists they had been spending hundreds of millions of dollars training in terrorism in libya, they neurtralized the iranian Armies commanders, they got in touch at every level with every single pro-democracy activist and monarchist that went towards them thinking they were on there to help save iran from khomeini and assuming the usa would live up to its legal obligation as an ally of irans and the usa instead fed them all to their "paid by USA, trained by plo, basij terrorists" deaths in their thousands.  After betraying iranians like this and when khomeini no longer had any use for the USA's help, the extremists took over the US embassy by total surprise and seized all their files including many that were shredded, later they were put together into folders which "Ironically prove as documentation the extent of the thousands of leaders all over iran the USA betrayed and sent to the death squads which the USA had paid to get created in the frst place in libya by the plo"  this is well known and documented.  You call this blaming america????? or making a habit out of US/UK/Israel bashing????????? How old are you???? You don't sound mature or old enough to have been beaten by the IRI.  Do you think that you are coming up with an intelligent point, a statement of wisdom, when you say that "they seem to forget that the ones who are actually killing thousands of Iranians are Iranians themselves." No we all know exactly who is doing what, We are looking at motive and who is acting and how.  Think maturely for gods sakes, "If you had as much resources as the USA and you wanted to train and prepare as many terrorists of American heritage to harm Americans in that hypothetical example do you think you'd have any problem get 1,000's of Americans to train and do the dirty work, with a few billion in todays money? How about if they had a cause they were brain washed for like David Koresh of the branch davidians?  You'd have no problem,  the diference between Iran and the USA is that in the USA it would not succeed because there is a functioning counter force, the US Military, In Iran the USA wiped out the military command through deceit because the US military was the Iranian militaries trusted advisors and they had no idea Carter would betray them like he did after having a lawful pact of alliance the US military was ordered to betray Iran.  How old are you really? or are you like one of the majority of iranians, completely and totally ignorant of what happened and is happening in Iran because you did not read it in the papers yet??????????

Dear Amirparviz: In the context of international affairs…

Which this blog was written, IRI is synonymous with Iran much the same as the Zionist entity of the Israeli regime has been synonymous with Israel.  Many of us don’t appreciate this and have been arguing against the type of sanction that targets Iranians and not necessarily the IRI officials.  

Now, it may serve us as a feel-good exercise to try to separate ourselves from IRI and by that wash our hand from any responsibility in allowing that regime with its barbaric rule to take roots in Iran but it will not change the fact that we, the Iranian people, have the primary responsibility for it. 

And lastly, I am quite familiar with your position about the role of US/West in bringing religious extremists, the Mullahs to Iran and can’t say I disagree yet I will hold ourselves responsible for it as we have and still continue to allow it.

Dear Fesenjoon2: Like yourself, I am proud of my new home and to be an American citizen, partly because it does give me the freedom to exercise my right and criticize the portion of the policies where I see it is not to the long term benefit of America and American people.  This country has matured and achieved much greatness precisely for that reason.

Dear Disenchanted:  Thanks for your relevant comment to the topic of the blog.

Dear Abarmard: In the context of Iranian suffering, my bet is that Iranians have been suffering far more at the hand of IRI and as a result of IRI rule than the sanction that has been imposed on them.  Yet, I believe that sanctions that are designed to effect Iranian people is a double whammy that Iranians don't need at this time.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Dear Amirparviz: In the context of international affairs…

Which this blog was written, IRI is synonymous with Iran much the same as the Zionist entity of the Israeli regime has been synonymous with Israel.  Many of us don’t appreciate this and have been arguing against the type of sanction that targets Iranians and not necessarily the IRI officials.  

Now, it may serve us as a feel-good exercise to try to separate ourselves from IRI and by that wash our hand from any responsibility in allowing that regime with its barbaric rule to take roots in Iran but it will not change the fact that we, the Iranian people, have the primary responsibility for it. 

And lastly, I am quite familiar with your position about the role of US/West in bringing religious extremists, the Mullahs to Iran and can’t say I disagree yet I will hold ourselves responsible for it as we have and still continue to allow it.

Dear Fesenjoon2: Like yourself, I am proud of my new home and to be an American citizen, partly because it does give me the freedom to exercise my right and criticize the portion of the policies where I see it is not to the long term benefit of America and American people.  This country has matured and achieved much greatness precisely for that reason.

Dear Disenchanted:  Thanks for your relevant comment to the topic of the blog.

Dear Abarmard: In the context of Iranian suffering, my bet is that Iranians have been suffering far more at the hand of IRI and as a result of IRI rule than the sanction that has been imposed on them.  Yet, I believe that sanctions that are designed to effect Iranian people is a double whammy that Iranians don't need at this time.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Amir

The US, like every other country on earth has its share of shameful acts and policies. But so what? That doesnt prevent me from seeing the zillions of other good things it has done. The point is, some people just love making a habit out of US/UK/Israel bashing to the extent that they seem to forget that the ones who are actually killing thousands of Iranians are Iranians themselves.

btw, did you know that Samuel Huntington's COC book was required reading for many of the upper level IRGC officers and theoreticians? It's one of Hassan Abbasi's favorite books. He quotes it all the time. 

A glimpse of absurdity, insanity & hypocrisy of the world...

      ...we live in! Not that I am surprised a bit. A world that gets its information and news from likes of that crook Rupert Murdoch wouldn't be any other way!

       -- A country (Israel) in possession of HUNDREDS of nukes is crying wolf that another country is about to get ONE in next 6 months (Been saying that for past 20 years!)!

      -- A country that refuses to sign NPT is advocating war and sanction for another country that has signed and abides by NPT!

The eye opening big lie of the blog is confusing IRI with Iran

IRI are religous extremists which are anti-secular, they are the hezbollahi party of Iran.  This is very different to Iran.  Taliban are not Afghanistan, Nazi's were not Germany.  Calling these Hezbollahi's Iran is in line with all the Main stream media articles that do the same instead of separating Iran and hezbollahi party are making them one and the same, because the Main stream media serves certain powerful itersts and those powers Love extremism for Iran, and as we see in Libya etc and the west polcy in practice is different than what it states it doesn't want to see extremists lose.

Addressing some of the lies in this blog

Iran has not invaded any nation, Israel has the record in modern history for the longest occupying force

After Iraqi forces were largely expelled from Iranian territory in 1982, Khomeini and the IRI refused Iraq's offer of a truce (under which Iran may have received substantial reparations) and insisted on fighting an offensive war and invading into Iraqi territory until IRI forces could march into Karbala and from there to Qods. Most of the death and destruction took places between the years 1982 and 1988, when Khomeini finally and with extreme reluctance agreed to make peace and "drink the poisoned chalice". The second sentence is also a lie: the longest current occupation is India's occupation of Kashmir since 1947, a conflict which has killed far more people than Palestinians have been killed -- though, of course, the hypocritical usual suspects never say a single peep about that occupation, nor the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus, the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara or the Syrian occupation of Lebanon.

Iran sucks at international terrorism (alleged role in India, Bangkok, SA ambassador in US, etc.), Israel has been very effective and successful in international terrorism (Alleged role in Iranian scientist, Hamas political leader in Dubai, etc.)

Nothing about the IRI's assassination of dozens and dozens of political opponents in Europe, Turkey, and the US (Ali Akbar Tabatabai was killed in Bethesda, Maryland); nor the storming of the US embassy and taking of 52 hostages for 444 days, nor the IRI's establishment, assistance, and promotion of terrorists who bombed the US and French embassies in Lebanon and Kuwait, hijacked airplanes, kidnapped and killed civlians in Lebanon, blew up the Israeli embassy and Jewish community center in Argentina, etc, etc

Fesenjoon2 Surely you get the difference?

 On: I am proud and honored to be an American citizen.  That is fine. Surely you are not implying you are proud and honored of the US govt or its politics?  That made 50% of all the Children in Iraq orphans, by killing both their young mothers and fathers as a result of the US led war in Iraq.