Ari Siletz

thanks MG.

and also thanks for your feedback about the translation.

...

Excellent start, thanks.

I blogged the first drfat of translation of Shamlou's poem

 Now, friends can improve this draft, or if they totally don't like it, they can start heir own translation, but at least we have something to discuss. Here is link to my blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anahid-hojjati/i-am-still-thinking-about-crow-group-translation-project

darft of next few lines

facing the nearby mountain

with dry croaking of his throat

he said something

which the mountains

impatiently

under the ??? sun

for a long time

astonished

were repeating it in their stony heads.

First draft of first few lines just to get us started

I think if we have something to start, it will be easier to proceed. This is what I have for first few lines, so MG, Ari, and any other friend can edit it:

With his black scissors

on yellow of the toasted wheat field

with multiplied rustle

cut a curved arc

from the pale paper sky

i already know that "curved arc" is not a good choice since all arcs are curved. But for right now, let' s leave it there. The way I will go about it, is to try to proceed at a minimum level and then come back and make corrections, and other friends are welcome to make their corrections on what I do too.

...

'Khair' jan, thanks for your continued support  in translation 'project.' As I'm sure we all agree by now, there's no 'deadline' or rush for any of our little literary experiment . Let's see if we'll get a few more folks participating in the process.

If  we have more folks interested, good.

If not, you yourself could probably translate the poem, it's not that long, though I had a very hard time translating it. Anahid, Souri, Faramraz, and me could help with editing and corrections.

I know, it sounds a bit like an Azadeh 'flow-chart,' but me a bit tipsy!

Prof. Faramraz, couldn't stop laughing.  ... thanx.

Actually quite impressive!

"از جلای سر طاسش در زیر نور ترسیدم

Poet's Note: In a stroke of genius, the poet connects the fear, the head and the reflections of the faraway rays; just brilliant ."

Actually quite impressive! For example the word "jala" even connects phonetically--and indirectly in intent--to the word "najla" in another stanza of the poem.

Poetry for Beginners!

Ari, your wish is my command! Here is how I went about solving this great puzzle and I will explain it to Anahid like a good French Teacher; no apples please

The door of eve's first watch

درنگاه اول من یک دل نه صد دل عاشق حوا شدم

Poet's Note: The hidden message here is Eve, Havva

in the room like lonesome insight, the porcelain woman

تا کلاه گیس برداشت با زنی چینی در اتاقی خالی تنها شدم

Poet's Note: Here the emphasis is on the Chinese woman and lonesomeness

inside her head frightening reflections catch faraway, she thinks:

از جلای سر طاسش در زیر نور ترسیدم

Poet's Note: In a stroke of genius, the poet connects the fear, the head and the reflections of the faraway rays; just brilliant

"slaves to powerlessness who turn to wine the wall of the town chief

گریختم از دیوار، دویدم تا میکده به جناب سروان آویزان شدم

Poet's Note: Here you sense the powerlessness of a man on the run who begs the authorities for help

everyone of them to whom life has given the pluck of the whip's fire beneath the rubble

شلاق داغی خوردم در زیر آوار من ز او

Poet's Note: But he is being ridiculed and punished by the authorities

his disobedient lot is secret in the wall layer."

عاقبت از دست حوا در لایه دیوار پنهان شدم

Poet's Note: And the shame and regret about a mistaken love

Some replies

Mash Ghasem: I second your choice of poem, and your idea of sending it to Shamlou's site if we end up with a translation we are happy with. What's the next step? Will follow up on Farhan and Nafisi.

Anahid: "...you are great at ... so many other things that I don't have time to name one by one."   Toro be khoda don't give Faramarz any bahaneh to offer his own style of interpretive translations.

Faramarz: Please interpretively translate the above comment to Anahid as a request. Any well known poem will be a delight, I'm sure.   

MG, I got to go out, will not be able to read Farsi font

but your suggestion is great. That poem is very significant, so good choice.

به کجای این شب

آناهید و "خیر" عزیز   با تشکر از  لطف و  توجه شما به ترجمه گروهی شعر.
راستش بهترین روش ، بی روشی است.  این فرنگی ها میگن  Free -Flow   . پس از
انتخاب شعر هر کس هر مقدار دوست داشت ترجمه کنه . فقط یکی، دو نفر میخواد
که محصول نهایی را مقداری ویراستاری و حک و اصلاح کند. پیشنهاد این حقیر 
شصت و چند ساله " هنوز در فکر آن کلاغم" است. احیانا ، اگر ترجمه درست حسابی و آبرومندی از آب درآمد میشه تقدیمش کرد به سایت رسمی شاملو، و از این حرفها...    
این مشتی حقیر  شما  با این "پروژه" ها، خودشو  بر میگردونه به اون دوران خوش و
بی غم و خیال دبیرستان (چهل ،پنجاه سال پیش). خدا شما  و همه جوانان 
نیما- پسند را حفظ کنه.
فرامرز جان ، تو این روز پر از اخبار بد، طبق معمول لبخندی به لبان همه آوردی، بازم داشی پهلوان خومان.

baba jon, let discuss it!

After re-reading and reflecting on the poem, last night, I deducted that actually Nima was completely enraged when he said that poem ! the theme is purely political. Look at this

در نخستین ساعت شب، دور از دیدار بسیار آشنا من نیز
در غم ناراحتی های کسانم؛
همچنانی کان زن چینی
بر زبان اندیشه های دلگزایی حرف می راند،
من سرودی آشنا را می کن در گوش
من دمی از فکر بهبودی تنها ماندگان در خانه هاشان نیستم خاموش
و سراسر هیکل دیوارها در پیش چشم التهاب من نمایانند نجلا!

and

راهبردم را به خوبی می شناسم، خوب می دانم
من خطوطی را که با ظلمت نوشته اند
وندر آن اندیشه ی دیوارسازان می دهد تصویر
دیرگاهی هست می خوانم.

and

چند رفته سالهای دور و از هم فاصله جسته
که بزور دستهای ما به گرد ما
می روند این بی زبان دیوارها بالا.

hala hei begoo taghsir in bichareh zan porcelini boudeh :)

Ari, if you did the translation

and are serious, then we found one area that you are less than fantastic in it. I mean, you are great at writing stories, you know science and music, you do cartoons, so many other things that I don't have time to name one by one. So Ari, don't feel bad if as of now, you are not fantastic in translating from Persian poetry to English . Hopefully, once we do some group projects, we all get better.

Anahid

Thank you Mash Ghasem

Thanks for explanation Souri jan, and MG, I am really impressed.

Souri jan, I thought that Ari might have been joking but I was not sure.

MG, I am so impresed. You know so much about poetry at your young age. According to Faramarz, you are only 21.

Confusion

Anahid jon,

That was purely a joke between Ari and me. No hard feeling was there. We are teasing each other.

Maybe the way we write on the net, and the way it is read by others, are completely different and brings to the confusion.

Ari was not blaming me, but just joking (as he always joke about almost everything in a very subtle way) and I........well I have tried to be subtle too, but it didn't work well :)

Sorry for my awkwardness.

thanks, you have valid points too

and let's continue this lovely discussion in few hours. I am a bit tired too but this was a great comment, thanks for all the info.

...

your argument is a bit mechanical, me a bit tired, but you do have some valid points.

Reza Barahani has had a discussion of "Crisis in Iranian Poetry" for a while now. So we do have a crisis, but it's a bit more complicated than just domination of religion in society, it also involves the poets themselves, the language(s), the medium,...

The golden era of Shamlou, Akhavn and Forough,...is very hard to match, big shoes.

Me thinks you're seriously underestimating the quantity and the quality of literary works done in the past few decades, unless it's your full time job you would really have a very hard time keeping up with it. Ask Ms. Hora Yavary, she wrote the essay for fiction, in Iran Encyclopedia, cheers & good night or good day.

I just listened to Shamlou, it was great.

Thanks for the poem and the link. Group translation is a good idea.

I don't know about others

But when I read poems from Nima written sixty years ago and poems from other great poets written 40-50 years ago, they seem to be much more modern, progressive and beautiful than writing that is done in Iran these days. Yes, there are people like Hila Sedighi but collectively, I don't think years between early 80s to now can be comapred in literature in Iran to years between 1950 and 1980. Those were golden years in literaure in my opinion. So many great poets and indeed many like Nima and Forough were ahead of times, but then Iran went backwards. Truth is that part of the reason that some of our great ones in literaure look so great, is that literature in Iran did not progress under IRI any where near levels it could have.

...

Indeedy, Alfbamdad is great , so was his teacher Mr. Esfandiary, and all the good readers on IC, not to mention the early birds.

How about a group translation? Did you listen to Shamlou's reading?

Great poem Mash Ghasem

Excellent imagery. Now we need someone to translate this :).

هنوز در فکر آن کلاغم

تقصیر از نثر فارسی‌ این نیما جان عزیز بوده."

آخه این هم شد نثر فارسی‌؟

قربونش برم یا واقعاً فارسیش خیلی‌ بد بوده، یا اینکه خیلی‌ خیلی‌ جلو تر از زمان خودش (و ما هم) فکر میکرده"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

هنوز
در فکرِ آن کلاغم در دره‌های یوش:

با قیچی سیاهش
بر زردی‌ِ برشته‌ی گندمزار
با خِش‌خِشی مضاعف
از آسمانِ کاغذی مات
قوسی بُرید کج،
و رو به کوهِ نزدیک
با غار غارِ خشکِ گلویش
چیزی گفت
که کوه‌ها
بی‌حوصله
در زِلِّ آفتاب
تا دیرگاهی آن را
با حیرت
در کَلّه‌های سنگی‌شان
تکرار می‌کردند.

□

گاهی سوآل می‌کنم از خود که
یک کلاغ
با آن حضورِ قاطعِ بی‌تخفیف
وقتی
صلاتِ ظهر
با رنگِ سوگوارِ مُصرّش
بر زردیِ برشته‌ی گندمزاری بال می‌کشد
تا از فرازِ چند سپیدار بگذرد،
با آن خروش و خشم
چه دارد بگوید
با کوه‌های پیر
کاین عابدانِ خسته‌ی خواب‌آلود
در نیمروزِ تابستانی
تا دیرگاهی آن را با هم
تکرار کنند؟

//www.shamlou.org/index.php?q=node/489

Was that translation yours, Ari and how did Souri get the blame?

Ari, was that Farsi to English translation yours? and not to offend you if it were, but how did Souri get the blame? I think I was the one that mentioned that translation was not good. But then when original poem was posted, it is a difficult poem to translate. In general, at least for me, translating from English to Farsi for poems, it is not that difficult but from Farsi to English, that is a different story.

Origins of Nima's Modernity: Modern French Poetry

and Yoush, and all that lush green in north and Darvag....

Rumors also mention early influences of Khanlary on him, but I can't cite a source on that. Those two sure went two distinct different ways. As WE mentions Nima's modernity is very much geared towards the nature and his immediate surroundings in the countryside. Contrast this with European modernity with its focus on urban, speed and hustle of daily life.

Below is some of his poems sang in song. I'm gettign addicted to Rana Farhan, and Soheil Nafici in these performances, enjoy, and thank you Ari jan, keep'em coming cheers

//www.parand.se/tr-nimay-yoush.htm

Hurting your feeling?

Sorry Ari jon, I had missed this one.

How come I hurt your feeling while I have tried so hard to be nice with you (and with your translation)?

Otherwise, i would tell you that your translation is some how....ehem ehem

This should not be translated to "The porcelain woman" but the "Chinese woman".........Reflecting on the word "wall" which came up there a few times  and also the references as " hard work" and also "the big city"

I'm sure this talks about the Chines woman and not the Porcelain one!

hala indafeh mibakhsham :)

Thanks Souri for your reply.

.

I bow!

Thank you dear Ari! This is my second medal in about a month. I already received the platinum medal for mozakhrafest surrealist poetry granted by CC!

Joking aside, and as for the reason why Nima broke the tradition, I really am not in the position to explain it; but to give you some ideas; I believe Nima was trying to break the norm in order to speak with ordinary people. He was impressed by “mashrooteh khaahi” movement, whereas the first indications of modernism was emerging…..He was also influenced by the geography of his birth place and its magnificent nature which inspires sensitive and creative souls such as Nima…

 Souri Jan: Thank you so much for the compliment, but I am neither a great poet, nor the one who sent you the emails…Thanks again.

It was a trick question

You tricked me by this diversionary remark:

"one of our poetic masterpieces"!!

Nice diversionary joke Mr Ari.

 For an Islamic democracy