POETRY

Thanks P-J

For shedding light to some's ignorance and insensitivity. A true patriot Iranian has no doubt that this despicable separatist, Mirza kuchak khan was a traior. Only to some remnant of Ghajars and resident of Camp Ashraf and all the other Iran haters, he is a hero.

Hi Mikey!

I thank you for the complement and correction!  My research of Mirza Kuchik Khan was done in this country, US, and all I wanted was to know this man was?  I knew that he was captured and/or killed in Gillan while staging guerilla warfare against the Iranian military. 

I used quite a few resources and they all led me to believe that he was a SEPARATIST MARXIST and not a FREEDOM fighter by any means!   Iranian at that time were fighting for their mere existence, we had been attacked from all corners!   I knew quite a few men that had served in the military.   I had 3 uncles in the war.   Struggle was not only for freedom, but to HALT IRAN'S disintegration and National Hemorrhage.   Freedom fighters join people at the time of CRISIS and not otherwise, and do not try to take advantage of the BAD situation!   We as a nation were under attack from colonial forces of Russian and British Empires.  Iran's military had been spread all over the place; from Khorasan to Azerbaijan to Kurdistan and Lurestan and elswhere.   This is time that a PATRIOT join force with MASSES!!   AND NOT FIGHT THEM!   These are the LITMUS tests that one uses in evaluating one's INTENTIONS!   In my humble opinion Miaza Kuchik Khan failed them all, as did Sheikh Khazal and the rest of the TRAITORS!  I also respect others opinion and allow discussion to continue  

Dear P-J

Dear P_J: I'm not a historian so I let Dr. Jahani speak for himself or herself.  But first, let me say, thank you for the polite and civilized language; it's refreshing to read a counter argument without the personal attacks and insults.  I'm also trying to learn in this process, so I read your comments with a great deal of interest.  

I have to admit that what bothers me is that those opposed to Mirza offer no credible historical facts -  - only opinions and innuendos. I respect everyone's opinions but place more value in Dr. Jahani's scholarly argument . Also your comment re. Mirza selling Iran to Stalin seems inaccurate - (sorry, please don't read this as an attack). I researched this and learned that Mirza died in 1921, and Stalin didn't even come to power until 1924, after Lenin's death.  How could Mirza sell Iran to Stalin?  I'm confused.

In the course of reading about Mirza, I came across this article on WIKIPEDIA that seems to support Dr. Jahani's version of Mirza's biography. Of special interest to me was this line (in Persian below) in the article, which as Dr. Jahani pointed out, seems to suggest that Mirza opposed Lenin and the Bolshevik ways. I also read somewhere else that Mirza was initially enamored with Socialism but as Prof. Jahani pointed out lost interest in Socialism after one of his allies was murdered by the Russians. 

 //fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/میرزا_کوچک‌_خان_جنگلی

 امّا هنوز دولت تازه انقلابی سامان نگرفته بود که با حمایت بلشویک‌های روس اغتشاش انقلابیهای سرخ طرفدار شوروی آغاز گردید که نهایت جمعه ۱۸ تیر ۱۲۹۹ میرزا به عنوان اعتراض از رشت به صومعه سرا رفت و قبل از حرکت دو نفر نماینده با نامه مفصلی برای لنین بهمسکو فرستاد که در آن ذکر شده بود: «در موقع، خود به نمایندگان روسیه اظهار کردم که ملّت ایران حاضر نیست پروگرام بلشویکها را قبول کند».

Mr. Jahani & Mr. Seraji

With all due respects, I would like to agree with those who called this man a communist sympathizer, which is fine except when you try to sale your country to the DEVIL, UNCLE JOE, Joseph Stalin, one of the BIGGEST MURDERERS of human history!  They are ALL MARKED SIGNS OF A TRAITOR!.

This is what I found being curios about this man, Mirza Kouchek Khan, and without any prejudice.  He was, in my opinion, in the same category as PISHEVARI and GHOLAM YAHYA who were trying to so call "LIBERATE" Azerbaijan or Kurdish leader Talebani and liberation of Kurdistan, all getting their marching orders from Kremlin.  In south a British agent name Sheikh Khazal wanted to “LIBERATE” Fars, with the blessing of the British, and for the British.

Belief must have been that Iran, as week as it was, was still too BIG and too strong, and they, the IMPERIAL POWERS, believed in a philosophy of DEVIDE AND CONQUOR!

Curious thing is that they all escaped to the Soviet Union except Sheikh Khazal that met the firing squad.

Mickey,Michael, Michelle or whatever!

U have never been in Iran? Have U?!

You don't  have  andy freaking idea what's going on there? For my father's hand, he always curse himself for that saying, this is the same hand which brought down the statue! Since when u are , a bowel hotter than the soup?!

Btw, if you really have lived in Iran or knew anything about true Iranian mentality, you would not assume just because sb somewhere in the world has Statira name as a nickname, it outomatically makes the name a male name. IN IRAN NOBODY NAME A BOY STATIRA. It's like you call yourself Golpari joon!

I remain teachable

Passerby

I am humbled by Jahani’s honesty and humility in giving an objective perspective on Iranian history.

Mehdi jaan

Mehdi jaan-

Since you responded in English, I'll do the same.  I appreciate your comments.  

Any historian would give an arm to have the kind of access you have had to personal and invaluable historical documents, as Mirza's letters to Lenin, which somehow must have been copied and kept around, or not sent, or how could the family have access to them.  Nevertheless, I accept your views, and believe your assertion that such family-treasured documents perhaps exist; although the subject has been treated with exceptional caution by most prominant scholars, i.e., Dr. Abrahimian, Ostad Tolooie, Dr. Ghani, -However, I assure you that the views presented below are not just mine but that of most unbiased historians. The one aspect omitted, not intentionally by yours truly in the previous post, was that the Pahlavi regime was not the only culprit in misrepresenting Mirza's beliefs.  Many attempts have been made by leftist of the Tudeh (especially) and later by Mojahedin to present Mirza as a fervent socialist in order to take advantage of his popularity amongst the masses.

I personally have never believed that one's adherence to Islam, Socialism or any other political or religious belief could automatically render them as a traitor, as some seem to have suggested on this forum.  Most of our greatest 20th century writers and poets were socialists or belonged to the left - Al Ahmad, Chubak, Nima, Daneshvar, Behbahani - heck, Jean Paul Sartre was a Socialist before gravitating toward Existentialism.   I would strongly suggest to out friends to read Dr. Tallatof's wonderful book "Politics of Writing in Iran."

 Thanks again, Mehdi jaan, for sharing your thoughts - I assure you, however, that it serves me absolutely no purpose to present half truths in my line of business.... as hearsay has no room in my world and can result in my immediate dismissal and lack of credibility and potentially starvation as I have no talent in any other line of work. :) 

Anyway,  I'll, too, retire for the evening and from this forum and hope we can learn to have civility in our discourse without the use of terms like "Morons," "Traitors," "Or the university of never heard of?"  Sorry i couldn't resit that one - it was so Persian it creased my already wrinkled face with a smile. :) 

Statira: Hope your father is not too hurt and embarrassed

Passerby

I hope your father is not too hurt and embarrassed by the tone and substance of your argument. You showed blatant disrespect towards the historian who tried to shed some light to this discussion.  This would be my last exchange with you on this topic.

Dear Prof. Jahani there are different sides to any story

Dear Professor jahani,

Thank you for your input regarding Sardar-e Jangal, and as I frequently travel to Iran due to my parents' illnesses I did not want to give too much information about myself. However, your piece of some what revisionist history has prompted me to respond in kind.

With all due respect to your knowledge and information, I have to say that it has also a great deal of half truths and misinformation. Ms. Pari Jangali, Mirza Kuchak khan's daughter was a very dear and close friend of my mother and we used to visit her house in Rasht whenever we went back there. Haj Yousef kasmaie and Mr. Ebrahim Fakhraie were the last two people to stay with Sardar-e jangal to the bitter end, are also dear close friends of our family on my mother side. Because of my great desire to learn about Iran, and in particular Gilan's history, the 3 of them often let this curious teen to read through the personal letters and essays relating to that period. All of the people mentioned are/were great Iranian patriots, and I have never doubted in their love for Iran. However, I have seen for myself the letters which "Sardar-e Jangal" sent to Lenin with great reverance and admiration OFFERING Province of Gilan to the BolsheviK Leader.

Calling some of your compatriots as misinformed or misguided just because due to the Pahlavi regime's propaganda against the Jangal movement their information is different than yours, are both dishonest and selfish.

Dear Professor Jahani I have great respect for your knowledge and have no doubt that you believe it is to be the truth. However as I mentioned before, history is often very subjective and someone's hero could be another person's villain.

Salutations to ALL The TRUE Sons and Daughters of Iran.

Mehdi2009

Statira

Statira is also the name of a male opera singer and a species of butterfly - Uhum! Dig it?!

And what was that comment you made to Reader 1?  Did you say:  you must have lived behind the mountain?!!!  Behind the mountain?  Is this like "az posht kouh amadi?"  Wow!  You write English "goodly!" What is it with you?  Where does all this anger and ignorance come from? You call people moron, and other names, and when a professor respectfully presents historical facts, you attack him and question his credentials?  Three people on this site have asked you to tone down your offensive language.  Well, here, let me give you a taste of your own medicine:  Were you raised in brothel or do you work in one?!  You sure sound like a cheap one.... So how does it feel to be insulted?  You don't even have mercy on your own father who lost his hand?  Your father lost his hand and you think it was just because he helped bring the statue of the Shah down?  My god, what kind of a freak are you?   

jahani

Or better say the professor of the university never heard of!

If you were a real professor and historian, you should know better that Statira is not a male name. It was Darius' wife!

با سلام به

با سلام به دوستان-

بنده تاریخ ایران را در یکی‌ از دانشگاههای آمریکا‌ تدریس می‌کنم. میرزا نه کمونیست بود و نه خائن و نه تجزیه جوو - ولی‌ متاسفانه پرپگندا منفی‌ رژیم پهلوی ایشان را در ذهن بسیاری از هموطنان نا‌ آگاه ما خائن جلوه داده اند. برای شرح حال میرزا به کتاب پدر و پسرش از استاد طلوعی مراجعه فرمائید.  میرزا یک مسلمان پا قرص بود که در جوانی تحت تاثیر عین الدوله والی‌ قرار گرفت ولی‌ بعد از قتل "خیابانی" از کمونیست‌ها رو برگرداند. او در این زمان به طرفداری از "مشیر الدوله" از ورود ۷۰۰ "باد کوبه ای" به خاک ایران ممانعت کرد. در این زمان "احسان خان" نیرویی تشکیل داد و آن را حزب کمونیست رشت خواند و دستور قتل میرزا را صادر کرد. اما مردم گیلان میرزا را برای ایستادگی در مقابل روس‌ها در بندر انزلی  قهرمان میدانستند و زیر بار نرفتند. (رژیم پهلوی کارهای احسان الله خان را به میرزا نسبت میدهند). در این زمان در کنگره ملل شرق حیدر عمو اوغلی میرزا را به عنوان مانع اصلی‌ پیشرفت کمونیست‌ها در گیلان معرفی کرد. نریمنف، رئیس جمهور آذربایجان شوروی ۵۰۰ افراد مسلح را با کشتی به ایران فرستد تا میرزا را ترور کنند.با علم به دستور روس‌ها میرزا زرنگی کرد و حیدر عمو اوغلی خان را در "ملا سرا" به دام انداخت و کشت.  بعد از حمله رضا خان به رشت، احسان الدوله با کشتی به روسیه فرار کرد و وزیر مختار شوروی نامه‌ا‌ی به میرزا نوشت و از او تقاضای پیوستن دوباره به روس‌ها را کرد.  اما میرزا تقاضای او را ردّ کرد و در پاسخ چنین نوشت: مقصود من و یارنم حفظ استقلال مملکت و اصلاح و تقویت مرکز بوده و تجزیه گیلان را که مقدمه ملوک الطوایفی و ضعف ایران است خیانت صریح دانسته و می‌دانم."  

با این وجود دولت ایران و رضا خان به دستور از انگلیسی‌‌ها که از میرزا متننفر بودند به تعقیب او پرداخته و بسیاری از یاران او را به قتال رساندند.  این مساله باعث سود بسیار سریع رضا خان به قدرت شد. بنابر این میرزا نه خائن بود، نه کمونیست نه تجزیه طلب - اما رژیم پهلوو برای سالها با مدرک سازی او را به هر سه متههم کرده است. 

و خانوم و یا آقای STATIRA - خواهش می‌کنم برای حفظ احترام دوستانی که به این سایت برای مبادله روشنفکرانه می‌آیند از ناسزا گفتن و فحش دادن خود داری فرمائید - مشکرم. 

 و از استاد سراج برای این شعر زیبا بسیار متشکرم.

Reader1

So you say some yearn to return of the dictatorship of the type Reza shah inflicted. As if you believe that in the last 30 yrs Iranians have achieved all political, social freedoms that Reza shah and Mohammad Reza shah stole it from people. I wonder if you've lived behind the mountain all this time or maybe just woke up from a deep coma!

bazi ma irania ru choob to joonemoon koonand, namak be cheshm haroomim.

FYI, my father was one of  the people who brough down the shah's statue. Yrs later he got into an accident and lost the same hand which brought the statue down. Even if it did not take him more than a few month after the Islamic Revolution to become antiregime, but still he got his punishment. I believe people like you have no idea what real Iranians who live all those yrs in Iran feel. For most Iranians, shah considered an angel compare to all the leftists and Islamist thugs.

Mehdi - Thank you for bringing some civility to this discussion

Passerby

Thank you for bringing some civility to this discussion. While I reserve judgment on the truth behind Mirza’s  offer of Gilan as a gift to Lenin, I am prepared to accept the truth, whatever it might be. What I cannot accept is the  hypocritical and double standard prejudice shown by some contributors to this discussion who cry out for democracy but yearn  to return of the dictatorship of the type Reza shah and his son inflicted on iran for over half a century. 

Warrior, Yes. Hero, Depends whom you ask!!!

My Dear fellow Iranians,

Mirza Kuchak Khan was a Warrior, and to some extent a very good one, however, as far as a great deal of people are concerned he was not a hero to all the Iranians.

I have read several books about his time, and even had a few conversations during my teens in the 1970s with the author of "Sardar-e Jangal", Mr. Ebrahim Fakhraie (Family friend) about him. Obviously Mr. Fakhraie thought that he was a hero, but by the same token when I asked him why in his letter (Which Mr. Fakhraie was well aware of) to his beloved Comrade Lenin he stated that he wanted to gift wrap the wonderful Province of Gilan to Russians, he had no answers at all.

It is true that he fought against the Colonial power of Britain, and that is very admirable. Bur Gift wrapping one the most beautiful provinces of Iran along with its marvelous and intelligent people to Russians does not make anyone a hero in anybody's book.

History is always subjective, however the correspondence between Mirza Kuchak Khan and Lenin are a matter of historical facts which can be easily checked.

Salutations to All the TRUE Sons and Daughters of Iran.

Mehdi2009

Hero no

separatist yes he was. had he succeeded today Gilan would have become another sperate entity like republic of Azarbijan, and some of you fine folks wouldn't be able to vacation there by caspian sea or buy your kooocheh or what ever it is that you do.....

There should be no surprise to any one that people like Mirza, pishevari, rajavi, golesorkhi,etc are  hero's to lefty omati croud. The only thing we are missing is a long standovation from BBC!

Leftists and Toudeis

This is common for Leftist, Toudeis and Hezbolahis that whoever has different idea from theirs, they mark them as Monarchist.

I bet all the morons who praise this traitor, are the ones who never step foot in Iran or live most of their life there or they don't even dare to go there.

Hamashoon az bade shekameshoon harf mizanan.

It does not need a genius to figure out, kuchak khan was a forign agent, separatist and cold blooded murderer.

Fooladi joon ironically I feel the same!!

Is it not amazing that two decades after the disgraceful fall of communism and disclosure of their criminal deeds we are stil glorifying their allies of 80 years ago i.e. Mirza kuchek?!!

FR

amazing responses...

First: I have greatest respect to all freedom loving, patriots of Iran, who sacrificed their lives for Iran and it's pwople, including Mirza and others mentioned in this forum (Golesorkhi, Khiabani, etc), regardless of their idelogies.

Second: I find it amazing, that only 31 years after People of Iran unanimously and violently sent the shah and rest of his gang packing for USA or wherever their bank accounts were, there are still people who come on this website and support monarchism! What a pathetic bunch indeed!

گیله دختر

شما گیله دختر مثل اینکه فقط دنبال یک چیز روح بخش و با صفا هستین و کاری بکار واقعیت‌ها و ارزش‌ها ندارین. کاش روزی برسه که بتونیم دست از تملق و ..... برداریم.

میرزا کوچک خان

دوست عزیز آقای سراج، مثل اینکه شما یک چیز‌هایی‌ را فراموش کردین، مردم ما امروز هم روحانیون و هم کمنیست هارو شناخته اند، میرزا کوچیک خان شما گذشته از آن ۲ ویژگی جدائی خواه هم بود.

اینگونه "شعر"‌ها بدرد همان سالهای ۱۳۵۷ میخورد که مردم چوب کمنیستها و  روحانیون و مجاهدها را هنوز نخورده بودند. مردم ما بیش از هr چیز همبستگی لازم دارند و چیزی که لازم ندارند حکومت دینست. شما هم بهترست که بجای طرفداری از گروه خاصی‌ به پیوستن مردم بکوشید نه‌ جدائی افکنی.

لطفاً خودتون را بیخود خراب نکنید.

Very common...

Good Soldier, Bad War:

German soldier, WWII

American soldier, Vietnam War

Iraqi soldier: Iran-Iraq war...

etc.

Statira?

Beram chopogham ro bekesham?  Wow!  Thank you! Very classy response.  I'm speechless and overwhelmed by the gravity of your logic. Have a great weekend.

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover

Reader1

Judge the message not the messenger.  Here is another reference to Mirza's pact with the Soviets and his allicance with the Red Army that were stationed in Anzali. I hope you approve of the site's logo this time :)

//www.bultannews.com/pages/?cid=14281

FR

I am not any wiser ...

Passerby

Sorry Farah, I am not any wiser visiting your recommended website for historical facts. When I said  "Mirza must be judged by historians and academics",  I didn’t mean by the historians of theocratic leanings.   I am sorry, but I am not too trusting of a website which decorates its banner with a Quranic verse. If true,  I certainly cannot defend his  use of “Estekhare” as a decision making tool! 

در جدایی طلبی میرزا تردیدی نیست ولی اینو دیگه نمیدونستیم

ميرزا هر كاري كه مي خواست انجام دهد، ابتدا استخاره مي كرد. هر درگيري و
جنگي كه پيش مي آمد ميرزا به قرآن و روايات و دستورات ائمه استناد مي كرد.
براي مردم مشخص بود كه راه ميرزا از اعتقاداتش نشأت مي گيرد.

//www.rasekhoon.net/Article/Show-28917.aspx

FR

Staria: Mirza was not a Democrat and nor was Reza Shah

Passerby

I didn’t say Mirza Kuchek Khan was a democrat and nor did I say any of the people listed in your first paragraph. I just didn’t feel comfortable with you calling him a traitor and at the same time praising Reza shah as a hero who accepted his severed head as a trophy from a true traitor.  I am not a expert in Iranian history to make an  informed judgment as to whether he was a traitor or patriot – I will leave that to historians and academics. The point I was trying to make is that if you hang around this forum advocating democracy against theocracy then it is fair that you equally do so against monarchy of the type Reza shah and his son wanted for themselves. 

PS Queen of England is a ceremonial monarch and not a ruling monarch

He was a Separatist not a Hero.

As sb recommended I googled Kuchak name and I found this:"Mirza Koochak Khan agreed to cooperate with the Soviet revolutionaries on some conditions including the announcement of the Socialist Republic of Gilan (also known as The Red Republic of the Jungle) under his leadership and lack of any direct intervention by the Soviets in the internal affairs of the republic.

chupan

Chupah tou boro chopogheto bekesh.

eenja deegeh Iran ya jomhorieh islumi neest keh bekhahee gholdori kooni o zoor begi.

Have U heard of freedom of expression? People like U who think some people immune of making mistakes and make an idol out of nobody( like Kuchak khan and Khomeini) take the country toward dictatorship.

Stop your insults ...

Statira ----- Reader 1 said "don't be unkind" - I think he meant to say "stop being rude." Using words like "garbage" in reference to someone many consider a hero is offensive - My problem with people like you who pretend to be democratic-minded is that if you can't carry a simple forum discussion without resorting to insults, how would you behave if you had power in your hands?  Not better than the guys in power now. 

And the flaw in your argument swas exposed when you fell into the trap of Bagher Khan and Sattar khan  - You really don't know your history, do you?  Just some sound bites you have heard from a few people - at least use Google.  Understand the connection between these three historic national figures and the cause for which they fought. Do you consider the people of Kurdistan who fought against Khomeini undemocratic and traitors by the same reasoning you used for Mirza? Do you see how unsound and superficial your reading of history is?  This is my last post on this subject.  Post your heart out! :)