Misc

From: The Real Nader Vanaki to Proud Jew

Postings from the date Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:32 PM CST
onward are by Kouroush Sassanian who posts under various people's names just to get attention. He had admitted in posting under my name, Ahmad Bahai, Kafka and a host of others.

I have never disrespected any Kalimi nor you. Just look at his posting and you will see the difference between my writing and his. I argue and this loser can only spew hatred.

Ironically he chooses his other fake identity as Kouroush Sassanian and writes this stuff about Kalimis. Obviously the man is lost and just ignore him.

answer to Nader

So much for the respect you were thought for the minorities at school and in your life. You are the exact example of the anti-semetic Iranians I was talking about. I am glad you revealed your ture nature for others to see.

Alas!

You are a punk and should remain outside Iran. You take more than you give to Iran, so it is best for you and your Kalimi friends leave Iran for good.

I have no respect for you, as you are simply an ass. I will not lower myself to your level. You have made my point that you and your family are of lower intelligence.

Answer to Nader

Well, I am sorry to hear that Nader, I believe since you feel you can not win your points by logic and argument; you try to do it by expressing hate. I have answered each and every point you mentioned logically and through reasoning!!!!
Let’s treat each other with respect and dignity, regardless of our beliefs.

Proud Jew

You try my patience! It just seems that you and your family had well deserved problems with Iran the country itself and chose to leave. I am glad you left. We do not need people like you in Iran. You may not be najees, but you are filth.

The Kalimis should leave Iran, as I think they will have better lives in Israel and the West. I do not think they are really needed or wanted in Iran.

Jewish-Iranians

I hope that every single one of you Jewish-Iraninas (hamvatans) stay in Iran because Iran belongs to you as much as it belongs to any other Iranian.

Anwers to me

I did not want to take the conversation here either but I also feel I have to clarify my points.
1. Even though Israel has been created to be a homeland for Jews, I believe Jews are an ethnic minority as well a religious one. I personally consider myself an atheist, but I have a strong Jewish identity and care deeply for the welfare of the state of Israel.
2. You mentioned that you still believe Arab Israelis face more prejudice in Israel than Jews in Iran, I have to disagree and say that I believe you get most of your information from the media, which is mostly anti-Israel. I have traveled to Israel 7 times, served as a volunteer in the Israeli army for a summer, talked and lived with Arab Israelis, as well as Palestinians (this was at the beginning of Intifada, when the situation was not as dangerous as now), and discussed politics with them in their shops, homes and market places. It is very true that they are not happy about their situation but that is mostly due to the fact that they feel that they do not belong to a Jewish state and feel guilty for living with the Zionists when their counterparts are struggling against the same government, rather than prejudice. Arab Israelis enjoy every right granted to Jews and even more, since they are not forced to serve in the army if they choose not to (each Israeli boy and girl must serve in the army at 18 and one month out of each year thereafter).
3. Furthermore, If nationality was more important to Iranians than religion, they would have never accepted an Islamic republic.

To Proud Jew

You said: “the government of Israel is not based on a religion or a religious ideology. Israel is a secular state.”

Dear Friend!
I really did not mean to take the discussion here, however I feel that I need to answer your comments. If you read my post again you’ll see that I’d specifically mentioned any country and/or government.

You got to be kidding me if you don’t consider Israel a country built based on religious values. The country is a “Jewish state” and the main purpose of its formation was for Jewish people to have a country of their own. If this is not a country based on religion, then I don’t know what is?! Who cares whether they call their government secular or not when the entire reason for the county’s existence is religion. If you look a little bit deeper than the surface and ignore what they may claim to be (don’t forget that the Iranian government also claims to be democratic and fair!) you will see that the non-Jewish (esp. Muslim/Arab) Israelis deal with much more day to day predigest in their society than what you had to deal with in Iran. Also keep in mind that most of the day to day problems of minorities in Iran (or any country) is not the government (however in our country the government makes it worse). It is the people, their culture towards other religions, and their attitudes and reactions towards others. I believe that the majority of Iranians (including Muslims) are much more tolerant of minorities than the other nations in that part of the world and this includes Israel too. One main reason is that the subject of nationality is as important (or even more) as religion for most Iranians and this is a rare thing in that region.

answer to Nader

Some of the statements you made are absolutely incorrect:
1. Everybody’s religion’s is NOT written in their birth certificate in Iran, I am a professional translator and I translate about 5 Iranian birth certificates every day, so I exactly know what I am talking about. For Jews, the words, Kalimeh for females and Kalimi for men must be added to their names, for example Jamshid Kalimi Tehrani.
2. My opinions are not based on the experiences of my 15 years in Iran alone. I went back to Iran several years ago, talked to many Jews and non-Jewish and witnessed their struggles. I am an active member of the Jewish community here and have talked to hundreds, if not thousands of people about their experiences in Iran and even here. Anti-Semitisms is alive and well here in the Iranian community abroad as well. I myself brought my ex-neighbor, a Moslem hamvatan, to court for hate crimes; she was convicted of vandalism and harassing phone calls and was investigated by the hate crime unit. She vandalized my door with anti-Semitic phrases such as “dirty by nature” and did other unspeakable stuff.
3. It is true that the 13 Jews of Shiraz were released, but this happened after continuous political pressures from the world leaders for years and the families of these innocent people were put through unspeakable agony. My own father and uncle were arrested in 1986 based on bogus charges of spying for Israel and released after paying bribes.
4. I myself went to Etefagh, the Jewish school, we were not permitted to read the Torah or our religious books in class or in the school premises, teachers of Hebrew and religious studies were fired. The students were forced to come to school on Saturday, the Sabbath, and would be expelled or suspended if they did not show up. Some of the well known Jewish shops were checked on Saturdays to make sure they are no closed.
5. There are Jews who are happy to be in Iran, that is absolutely true, but that is mostly because they have never experienced religious freedom to know what it feels to be proud of who they are.
6. To answer the other respondent, the government of Israel is not based on a religion or a religious ideology. Israel is a secular state.
7. It is correct that Jews are not likely to face a holocaust in Iran, but Iran is no paradise for them either.

Answer to Proud Jew

It seems you are way off base. Your aunt, uncle, mother, and your husband's experience is not the experience of thousands of other people. If you went to a jewish school and people complained that the school was dirty, well it was run by jewish principals and they should answer and not the whole of Iranian jewish population. For your information the school named Etefagh was a jewish run school which also admitted moslem students. So did those kids beat each other up every day? Isolated incidents of kids bullying each other is not signs of genocide or discrimination in the making.

I think YOU need to do more research since your knowledge is limited to the 15 years you spent there. I explained that the word Kalimi is an original name that Iranians made so that they would not use eastern european name versions of this religion. This is supposed to be a distinction for Iran and not just jews.

For your information EVERYONE'S religion is stated in their birth certificates and not just Kalimis alone. This is so that when representatives are elected from religous minorities, they are voted for by religious minorities themselves and not the general population.

And lastly all those arrested in Shiraz are released and living freely in Iran.

I just seems that you and your family had problems with Iran the country itself and chose to leave. So many other moslems were also mistreated and decided to leave. There is nothing wrong with that. But the Kalimis living in Iran are happy living there and don't try (based on your first 15 years of life experience there) to make it sound like another Holocust is happening there. You hear the people interviewed and they are saying that they like it. Why do you try to paint a picture of gloom and doom?

My two cents ...

In any country/government that is built on religious values, the members of other faiths or ideologies (and of course any opposition) are going to be treated in somewhat (at best) of an unfair manner. This is true about Iran and also true about Israel. No doubt that Israel is a more democratic form of government than Iran, but since it’s fundamentals are based on a certain type or religion and ideology, non-Jewish people (this is Arab-Israelis and not Palestinians) are treated as second hand citizens in that country. This is even evident based on the newest opinion polls coming out of Israel.

So what did I learn from this video and similar stories in the past?

1. Although the status and rights of religious minorities (and even many of the so called majority) of Iran is far from perfect, in a purely comparative sense, it is much better from the surrounding countries in that part of the world. By no mean this should imply that things should not get better for everyone in Iran.

2. Whenever a country is build and/or ruled based on certain religious values, “equality for all” is just a big and distant fairytale. Religious teaches you that your religion and point of view is superior to others and this false superiority of beliefs is a recipe for predigest and injustice. Any examples needed?!!!

To Nader

Dear Nader,

As an Iranian Jew who lived in Iran the first 15 years of my life, I can truly tell you that your experience in your school was very uncommon. I went to a Jewish school and abuse was the name of the game there. If anything would go wrong in the class or if the class was dirty fro any reason, it was always because us Jews were filthy.
The experiences I told you about are not “nane man gharibam” stories. These things actually happened to me personally and no one can deny that.
I understand that many Iranian Jews who live in Iran are well off, but that does not mean they feel secure, in reality the only reason they are not leaving the country is because they are well off and do not think that they can sustain that level of financial comfort abroad.
It is true that many Iranians left Iran regardless of their religion and the execution of Elghanayan was a triggering factor in the immigration of Jews from Iran, but did close to 90% of them leave? The scare was in the beginning of the revolution and there was a wave of Immigration then, how do you explain the other waves of Jewish immigration from Iran in the late 80s and 90s.
Perhaps the arrest of 13 Innocent Jews in Shiraz, some of them as young as 16, for treason, which carries a death penalty was also a myth!!
Why was a supposed to say death to Israel every morning in Iran, even though I was a zionist?
Why was my Moslem aunt washing the dishes we ate from with bleach after we left?
Why did my husband who lived in Isfahan was beaten almost every day and was afraid to live the house as a child because of the neighborhood kids?
Why did my mother pretend to be a Moslem is school so kids would not refuse to sit next to her?
Why did Iran made it mandatory to add to word Kalime or Kalimi to all the birth certificates, to identify Jews?
There are so many questions and very few answers.
I would be perhaps be discriminated against if I went to Midwest to get a job as a Jewish Iranian Female, but my ancestors did not live in this country for 2500 year, still feeling as outsiders!
Please do a little real research before you dismiss the experiences of real people in the real word as cries for attention.

To: Proud (Jew) Kalimi

We were taught respect for religious minorities when we stepped foot inside of school. We never used the word Jew, Jehud, or Yehudi. Iran wanted its own name for them and that is why the word Kalimi was used. It comes from the word Kalamollah, the word of god. Proud Muslim has already addressed your dillusional and self lamenting expressions on Nejassat so I will not get into that.

Your uncle should not worry about being entitled to only half the car damage after the auto accident. Nowhere on the car insurance policy (bimeh nameh) are you required to state your religion. And I have never heard of a case where a religious minority was awarded half the damage after collision with a moslem.

The law you are talking about is not practiced even if it is on paper. I would appreciate if you would cite just one real life case. The issue has been discussed openly in Iran and there are plenty of opposition to the practice of that law from the senior level clergymen.

Our Kalimi countrymen left Iran for the same variety of reasons 2 million other non-Kalimi people left. The immigration started before the revolution and continued afterwards when prominent industrialist Habib Elghanian was unjustly executed.

Even when you hear from Iranian Kalimis that they are free in Iran you don't want to believe it and you make comparison to Arab Israelis or successful Iranian Kalimis in the US. There are plenty of successful Kalimis in Iran. Go to Pasdaran Ave. and see Herchel Abedian's Carpet Store or even Moses Baba in Manouchehri who is interviewed in this video program.

You can not even attempt to dissociate Kalimis from Iran because of their long history and influence in our lives. Those of us who become teary eyed when listening to Ney Davood's "Morgheh Sahar" feel it with our hearts. We all have had Kalimi friends we went to school with, partied with, and played sports with. We were all proud of our nationality and culture and we respected each other's religion.

I would not be too sure if as an Iranian Kalimi woman you interviewed for a job in some redneck county in the U.S., you would not experience religious bias or discrimination.

So please sell your 'naneh man gharibam' story to some Americans who love to buy it as I am sure you have made some of their heart bleed with your tales of the absurd. If anything, suffering was dished equally amongst Iranians and no religion was given more of it than Bahais.

Peace for all people of earth

Moslems, Christians Jews and all other religious people can live side by side if all the filthy non-believers don't try to spread animosity among people.
This is a big blow to Israeli government. They give a black eye to warmongers!!!!!!!!!!

Jews In Iran Are 100% Iranian

Period.

Resistance footaleh

You mus join the kolaktive. reisitan footaleh

To proud Moslem

According to the same ayatollahs you mentioned and most of the other prominent ones, women are also considered equal to men, enjoy the same rights as men and are treated fairly and justly in Islam!!!!
Please, get a life. Go read about the real Islam by reading the Koran or reading khomeini’s tosihol masael.
If Jews and Moslems live in harmony in Iran, can you explain why more than 80% of the Iranian Jews have left their native country since the revolution?

Re: proud jew

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's really embarrassing for a society to have this attitude. Unfortunately in this time and age where Iran has been so Demonized to PR for another war, things are taken in a political rather than a humanistic way.

To Proud Jew

To Proud Jew:

According to Islamic Law (reading Ayatullah Sistani and Ayatullah Khamenei's fatwas), Jews are NOT najis, they are considered Pak (clean).

Also, you as a jew are considered equal under Iranian law, and also enjoy more freedoms than do Muslims (for example, you are allowed to import wine/alcohol for your community, have your own religious courts and religious institutions).

So please take your propoganda elsewhere. Jews and Muslims live in harmony in Iran.

to Xerxes, the proud Iranian

As a matter of fact I went back to Iran a few years ago and I agree that the situation is bad for everyone, but it is worse for the minorities, especially jews (by the way I do not thing jew is a derogatory term). When there, my uncle had an accident and his car got totalled, considering the economic situation there, he was very upset, but what worried him more was the fact that if the other driver who was at fault for the accident finds out that he is jewish, he would only be responsible for half of the damages. Where does it say in the constitution of Israel that Arab Israelis are worth half of the jews? For your information the Arab Israelis (the Arabs who statyes in the state of Israel after the independence of the country) enjoy the most freedom in all the middle east.
My question for you is when was the last time you went to Israel that you are so sure of what you know?
As a female Iranian jew, I am worth one fourth of a human being in my native country. How can I give my loyalty to the people who would not touch the doorknob that I have touched or break the cup that I had a drink from, because of the fear of Nejasat?
Iranian jews in America are one of most financially successful and highly educated minorities, because they have been given the freedom that they always seeked.
You tell me, should my royalty be to a country which has given me everything, equal rights, education, dignity or to Iran which consideres me one fourth human?

RE:proud jew and Anonymous_Flowers

I would argue that they are less of a second class citizens that any Shias in the Persian Gulf States or Arabs in Israel. When was the last time you went to Iran? If it's bad, it's bad for everyone without discrimination!
Anonymous_Flowers, you could make the argument for all the other media also, especially those who demonize Iran. You are aware that Israel is trying to buy the Iranian Jews. And you must know that some percentage of those who left, have returned to their homeland (according to Israeli Papers). Keep an open mind while you hate the system!

Jewish NOT Jew !

As a Muslim born in Iran & U.S citizen by naturalization, I am against the usage of a derogatory term : "Jew"!!!

Come on people, It is degrading and not nice...

We all know or have Jewish friends... Can't we be a little more considerate & polite !

Peace Yall...

PS. Come on Mr. JJ, Get the Chicken picture out, It's degrading too...

What do you expect?

Do you really expect the jews in Iran to come up front and say that they are interested to leave the country which considers them second hand citizens, and set their value as half of their moslem countrymen. Be realistic. They can not tell any one what is in their minds and hearts. They have to care for the safety of their community.

Insurance Policy

I don't think it would be in the interest of the Jewish people all over the world and particlularly Israel to see the number of Jews in Iran to fall below a certain threshold since they "could" always be used as an insurance policy at a time when their return in investment in Sunni Arab neighbours is such that bankruptcy seems definitely over their head. So logic and cool heads should prevail.

this is another example of

this is another example of censored journalism in a police state, can't trust that. but Iran and Judaism share very important historial roots that must be respected and recognized. and no matter how much face-saving that monster of a president, aCHMAGinejad does...he is still the biggest anti-Semite!

RE: Alborzi

Thats the point, and the IRI is making the situation perfectly ripe for it.

FYI/XERXES By Ren A Hakim

A screenplay by Ren A. Hakim

//payvand.com/news/07/mar/1199.html

Good news

It was good to hear it, unfortunately the economic structure of IR will result in more and more
of them leaving Iran.